Installed new Pagid brake pads

I installed a set of Pagid Type “S” pads on my ’99 coupe this weekend. Pagid describes these pads as being a “high performance compound with good fading characteristics and high cold friction” I wanted pads that would work well as street pads but would offer better high temp performance for autocrossing without the drawbacks of an all out race pad, and these seemed to fit the bill. Although I had seen pro and con about using new vibration dampers I decided to install them because I wanted to eliminate squealing, insofar as was possible. Pads were about $350 for both axles from TRG and dampers another $65 from Porsche. I had to special order the front dampers because three Porsche dealers told me that they didn’t use them when they replaced pads (although the factory obviously installs them OEM). The rear dampers my dealer sent me were the wrong ones, so I temporarily reinstalled the old parts, but other than that the install was uneventful. I also bled the brakes using a Motive Power Bleeder….a great tool and cheap at the price (about $45). I won’t get a chance to test their autocross performance until later this month, but I am very happy with the street performance. After installing the pads and bleeding the brakes the pedal is very firm. Initial bite is excellent, better than stock when cold or hot, IMHO. My seat of the pants impression is that braking performance is better overall. My biggest concern was that the Pagids would be noisy but so far they are virtually as quiet as stock. The last few feet of a stop, under light pedal pressure, when the brakes are cold, occasionally produces a squeal. Once I get the new rear dampers I will transfer the anti-noise shims from the old rear pads to the new ones (the new fronts already had them) to see if even that last bit of noise can be eliminated. But since, so far, the squeal only appears under very specific conditions, and disappears once the brakes are up to temp anyway, it’s really a non issue AFAIC. Mike

Mike, Did you just bleed the brakes or change the fluid? If you changed the fluid, did you bleed the clutch too? If so, I'd like to hear if you can do it with one person. Thanks.

Loren, I changed the fluid and replaced it with ATE Super Blue racing fluid. However, I did not bleed the clutch because to be honest, I didn’t think of it <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> . Fortunately, I never allowed air to enter the brake lines at any point so it didn’t matter. After I changed the pads, I filled the power bleeder with the ATE fluid and hooked it up without draining the brake reservoir. I bled each wheel caliper (both fittings) until the new blue fluid started to come through. I bedded in the pads and drove the car for a couple of days. I then came back and drained almost all of the fluid out of the reservoir (using a turkey baster which I “borrowed” from my wife and which will never be used for it’s intended purpose again ) on the assumption that some of the original fluid was still in the system after the first bleeding. I then filled the bleeder with fresh fluid and re-bled all of the calipers again. This resulted in a remarkably firmer peddle than before I started the whole project Since I assume it uses the same reservoir as the brakes, it should be just as easy for one person to bleed the clutch slave cylinder as it was to bleed the calipers using the power bleeder. Next time I‘m working on the car I’ll check it out. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Here is why I asked. There is a caution in the procedure about the clutch pedal movement and I wondered if this was a 2 person job. (I will likely find out soon since I'm about due for a fluid change). Here is the text: " Bleeding the clutch system Important notes The clutch hydraulics must always be filled or bled using a pressure filling and bleeding device. Furthermore, the bleeder valve must be opened sufficiently and the gauge pressure must be approximately 1.5 bar. Before the system is filled or bled, the clutch pedal must be in the "Pedal fully depressed" position. Caution: As there is no system pressure, servo kinematic effects will cause the clutch pedal to move forward abruptly. In order to avoid damage, the pedal must be guided manually. 1. Fill up the brake fluid reservoir with new brake fluid up to its top edge. Attach bleeding device to reservoir. Note: Use only new DOT 4 brake fluid. This brake fluid is available under the following part numbers: Container quantity 1 litre = 000.043.203.66 Container quantity 30 litres = 000.043.203.67 2. Move pedal to the fully depressed position. When doing so, guide the pedal by hand so that it does not move forward abruptly. 3. Switch on the bleeding device. Bleed pressure approximately 1.5 bar. 4. The bleeder valve on the clutch slave cylinder must be opened until clear, bubble-free brake fluid emerges. Use a collecting bottle for precise examination of the emerging brake fluid for cleanliness and freedom from bubbles. Note: If the system was open previously (e.g. for component replacement), the minimum filling or bleeding time must be 30 seconds. 5. Switch off and close bleeder device. Correct brake fluid level if necessary."

Loren, based on the instructions in your post I don't see how one person could be in position to operate the clutch by hand AND release the bleed valve on the clutch slave cylinder. Obviously, I didn't do this proceedure. Thanks for the clarification.

Mike, It may be nothing. Kind of a strange procedure (even for Porsche). Only thing I can think of is the pressure pushing the pedal up too far -- could cause damage? Not sure this got translated to an understandable form.

Ok, I've read the instructions a couple of times and I think I get it. The clutch must be fully depressed to bleed the system and to do that more easily the system should be without hydraulic resistance which is why the bleeder is attached first and not pressurized. Then to avoid the possibility of ramming the clutch through the firewall the pedal is moved to it's fully depressed position by hand. Now the bleeder can be brought up to pressure and the clutch can be bled. There are no hydraulics to force it back into position but if there is a clutch return spring someone would still have to hold the clutch in position while someone else bleeds the slave cylinder. If there's no spring or if the pedal could be braced to stay in place it might be a one person job. Still, don't know if I'd want to try it without observing what the pedal would do during the process. Anyway FWIW I think the proceedure makes sense to me now. I appreciate you posting the info. It probably kept me from doing something stupid.

Thanks Mike. I think you have done a better job "interpreting" the instructions than I have -- danke! I probably won't be changing my brake/clutch fluid until early September so you can be the test case this time

Mike in CA, Did my brake fluid/clutch fluid change a couple days ago. Man that Motive Products Power Bleeder works slick. I also bled the clutch (as we previously discussed). I did it as a one person job. Here is what I did. I bleed the rear brakes and while the car was still raised I pushed the clutch pedal in by hand and used a long piece of wood to hold the pedal down (I wedged the other end between the seat and door frame -- with plenty of soft padding to avoid scratches). Then I bled the clutch... actually there was some air in the line. Once that was done I carefully removed the wood and the first thing I noticed was that the clutch pedal did not return... so I carefully pulled it up (slowly) to it's normal position. Tried it a few times and it worked fine. Perhaps this is the warning Porsche has in the technical manuals... perhaps if you pull it up too quickly you can damage seals or create a vacuum? Anyway it can be done with one person

Loren, Thanks for your follow-up. I'll do the clutch as you described the next time I get a chance. I'll have to check back through the docs you sent me to find the bleed screw! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Mike, Drivers side, high above the axle.