My grievance letter to Porsche...opinions wanted (long)

Here: Porsche North America President/CEO: Frederick J Schwab 980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000, Atlanta, GA 30328 Porsche Customer Center Werk I Porscheplatz 1 D-70435 Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen I�m writing to express my displeasure with my recent experience purchasing a new 2002 Porsche C4S. For your reference my VIN is WPXXXX. My car had a build completion date of May 8, 2002, and I took delivery Monday June 10, 2002, from the Porsche Center, San Antonio, Texas. Five hours after signing the paperwork, 30 miles north of home with only 60 miles on the odometer my transmission froze. I had to be towed back and my car left outside overnight since the dealership was closed. Subsequently a sequence of maddeningly frustrating events occurred. Tuesday and Wednesday my dealership relayed to me they had called PCNA in Atlanta, who said they had arranged shipment of a new C4S transmission from Germany. It would be �pulled off a car on the line� and be in San Antonio in �4 to 5 days�. My service manager also reassured me that shipping would not be delayed over the upcoming weekend, so he expected it in by Monday or Tuesday. Wednesday June 19 I called to check and the part was not in. Thursday I called and the �transmission is lost, Porsche cannot locate it�. This was 9 days after delivery/break down. Friday June 20 I received a call from the Porsche Center General Manager, who just returned from a Porsche meeting in Reno, NV. He proclaimed that there never was a transmission �on the way� and that there were in fact no transmissions in the USA. Porsche had delivered to North America at least 5 C4S�s with faulty transmissions due to improper manufacturing of first and second gears. PAG was in the process of making and shipping up to 16 new C4S transmissions to the USA to repair the faulty cars but the wait was 2-4 weeks. Rather than make me wait he had worked a deal through a dealer in Dallas and with PCNA�s help he secured a trade of a new C4 to act as a �donor transmission�. To my dealers credit they rapidly sent a truck to Dallas Monday June 24, and my car was re-delivered to me by Wednesday June 26. My brand new Porsche had been in the shop for 16 days. My situation raises several important questions. First, how can an $86,000 hand-built car that is supposedly drive tested before shipping and delivery fail 5 hours after customer pickup? I�d expect that level of quality control from Ford, not Porsche. Secondly, who was behind the blatant lie that my new transmission was on it�s way �in 4 to 5 days�? PCNA? PAG? Or my dealer? Surely somebody knew that no transmission existed nor was any shipped out of Germany. Why was I told Porsche �cannot locate it�? Why did it take 9 days for me to be told the truth by the GM? Nobody at Porsche ever called me to explain. Furthermore, if there are indeed several C4S�s with faulty transmissions, why was there not an immediate recall from PAG? I read on the internet documented cases of a failed Tip in Japan, and failed manuals in England, Canada, and one plus mine in the USA during the 9 days I was kept in the dark. It�s like receiving news that your loved one has cancer from the TV and not from the doctors. I�m still in awe over the fact I�ve yet to hear that any of us affected customers were offered a Porsche to drive while ours were being repaired. Cadillac provides Cadillac loaners. I wasn�t even offered a Boxster. My dealer called Enterprise rent a car who was to call me to arrange drop off of one of their cars, but alas they never called me. I didn�t have so much as a Ford for a loaner during this time period. I�m also very curious as to why I have yet to hear from anyone at Porsche. I had to ask the dealer myself to search the database for similar cars to mine in the States should I decide to refuse to take mine back. I also asked him to find out if I would be given priority delivery of a new �03. The second PCNA realized the transmission problem was so widespread, they should have done this work for me, should have contacted me immediately, and should have scheduled me a priority delivery of a 2003 model. There were an incredible number of outright failures of your system and lies told to this customer. PAG�s quality control was poor. PCNA ignored my plight, either giving the dealer wrong and/or delayed information, and evading it�s responsibility to keep the customer informed. Any semblance of allegiance I may have developed to PAG is gone. I don�t believe your company has the dedication to customer support you claim. I don�t think you have tried for one second to retain me as a repeat customer. I purchased a model that is second only to the Twin Turbo in price and performance, yet it could have been a Dodge Neon the way I have been treated. My dealer made my first payment as a good will gesture. I believe PAG/PCNA owe me much more should I ever consider buying another Porsche. My car now has a major service on it�s record. It doesn�t even have a transmission of a C4S in it, but a C4. I�m doubtful any private party customer would want it when I sell it, which forces me to settle for the lower value as a trade in. My own trust in this particular car is shaken. I�m fearful of taking my 9 month old son for a ride, should I be stranded again. I�m asking for at least a 2 year extension on my warranty in writing, a credit equal to my monthly payment for items in the Porsche catalog, and a written apology from PAG. I want my name and vehicle information stored in a database so that when I sell this car, any and every US Porsche dealer will purchase it for full Blue Book retail (not wholesale) retail value. I want this assurance in writing. I will not be �stuck� with this car when time comes to sell it. I want the written assurance that should any other major component fail on this car, that it be declared a �lemon� with all the inherent legal rights. Should any additional good will gestures seem appropriate please do not hesitate to include. I do not feel my requests are unreasonable given the severity of the ordeal I was forced to endure. I�m already pricing the vehicles from Maranello in the event PCNA/PAG act in a manner inconsistent with retaining me as a repeat buyer. __________________________________________ that's it. Plan to send it to the CEO of PCNA and over to PAG in Germany. Sound OK to you all?? thanks! urb

I want my name and vehicle information stored in a database so that when I sell this car, any and every US Porsche dealer will purchase it for full Blue Book retail (not wholesale) retail value. That will never happen in 18 million years. Being a GM of a dealership. A few things to keep in mind..and this may be harsh, 1) the dealer did not build the car. 2)The problem seems to be with Porsche. 3) The dealer should, and I presume they are taking care of you, however if they do not have "loaner" Porsches...well then they don't They cannot just take a car off the showroom, or lot and let you use it! I see your frustration, and it is valid. Bringing up the cars from italy, well that has no basis, but I would be curious has to what there policy is, in regards to warrenty work? The real harsh factor is...."thats why new cars have warranties" can you imagine if the car had cost several thousand less, but with no warranty?...

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Phil. I'd be shocked if you get a keychain and a free oilchange. Porsche is selling every car they make.Clearly, their warranty is a joke compared to Hyundai!! I've had my car for a year--I'm really glad I leased it, yeah I know the arguments, I may have spent alittle more-but I'm not stuck with the car when the lease expires. In my situation, I actually feel for the dealer-they get the initial abuse(?) from the customer, but they didn't build it.It would have been nice to have a boxster loaner-I was glad to get a Taurus, some dealers don't even give loaners at all.For as agravated as I am, I am still driving a Porsche-I don't want an M3 or an AMG M/B.Its the only game in town and we're stuck. I will continue to express my displeasure and so will everybody else but we all keep buying them-that's why we're typing away on this website. I wish you luck-you're probably more disgusted than I am. After all, I was dumb enough to get the first year of the 996. You'd think they would have sorted things out by now. At this point knowledge is power and with everyone contributing to sites like this at least we are not completely in the dark.When I hear from Porsche on my complaint I'll be glad to let everyone know what happened. Right now, I'm goin' drivin'!! just like the commercial says. I have a new transmission to break in and several more months of factory warranty left.

yeah, take out the stuff about the loaner. that's an individual dealer issue, manufacturers don't tell dealers what to offer for loaners. they may be porsches, but it's still just a car dealership. just like any other. once they've made the sale and the car's off the lot, they don't care. they're not going to give you any more than they have too, they're not there to do you any favors...

It's a good way to vent, and a great way to let Porsche know that there is one very unsatisfied customer. Some of your points have been taken up in previous posts. Well, you asked for opinions, here's mine. 1. $85,000 car breaking down. Things will break down, no matter how much they cost. Maybe it happens less often the higher the cost, but it still happens. That's why there is a warranty, even if the car costs over 80K. 2. Lost replacement tranny. I don't know who to blame for this one. However, I find it incredible that your dealership was able to contact PCNA, PCNA was able to contact PAG, PAG was able to determine that they can pull a transmission off the line, relay all this info back to PCNA, PCNA back to the dealer, dealer back to you, all in a span of less than 48 hrs (Tues morning when they opened to anytime Wednesday). Somebody misunderstood. Only when the Porsche Center GM returned did the truth come out. IMHO, I think this may have been more of wishful thinking on the part of the dealer or whoever was acting on the GM's stead, trying to satisfy you. 3. No Porsche loaner. No loaner of any kind. I lay the blame for this one squarely on the dealer. Unless somebody tells me otherwise, policies regarding loaner availability rests solely at the discretion of the dealer. Sad to say since it affects all of us, but I don't think PAG or PCNA will be affected and therefore will not directly respond to one or a few of us. They sell all the cars they make. Porsche made a few bad trannys, caught it, corrected it, and started replacement procedures for the ones out there. IMHO, I think your dealer dropped the ball. They gave you wrong information, gave you no loaner, gave you a rental company that never followed up. Then, they tried to do the old CYA and appeasement approach when the GM came back, blaming PAG/PCNA, paying for 1 month lease when they should have done that plus pay for a Porsche loaner (Yes, you can rent a Porsche. I just found that out). I don't think you would have been as dissatisfied if you were driving around in a free rental Porsche while waiting for the new C4S tranny that you would have been correctly told would not be available for several weeks to arrive. This is getting longer than I thought. Send the letter. But send a copy to your dealer as well. They are the one cog inthe Porsche wheel that we as individual Porsche owners can affect.

I have mixed feelings... send the letter and see what happens. Realistically, you should hopefully get some goodie credit to use at the parts counter and a nice apology letter. It is unrealistic to expect the car not to break. It is very realistic to expect straight answers from PCNA and PAG. It should also start to serve as a wake up call that PCNA needs a policy on loaner cars. I believe many other marques have one. Work a deal to take some of the extraneous boxtsers as loaner cars. If my brand new car comes in and I am paying $1500 /mo and it is out of comission for a month... damn straight they had better give me a Porsche and take care of me a little. As for resale... in 5 years, I doubt anyone will remember that it got a new tranny. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I also suspect that the reference to cancer is a little over the top and would detract from the rest of the letter...

Dear Urb, I am only replying to this because I live in the part of the world (well just over the border) where one of your letters will end up. The person who receives this at PAG, will I doubt will get past the first few lines. Remember their native tongue is not English and they do not think or respond like you or I. This letter is far too long and it is nasty. A candidate for the round open filing cabinet or the noisy cabinet (shredder). The person reading this letter will not have a clue as to what you are even getting at. Whilst I fully understand you are upset it is not a good idea to say that people have been telling lies etc. The total time appears to be around 15 days. I think this is quite reasonable for a new product. Spares are not going to be distributed this quickly. Would be nice but just doesn�t happen this way. I would recommend if you ever wish to receive a positive response, especially from PAG, is to rewrite the letter asking for explanations for the apparent failures and time taken and not making accusations. I would remove the emotion, reference to cancer etc and make it more business like and respectful. You do not know who made the mistakes and your plan should be to ask PAG and PCNA to investigate on your behalf. I have lived among german speakers for over nine years and I know how they will respond to such a letter. I genuinely recommend you count to ten, rewrite the letter and try a more polite diplomatic approach. If you do not get the answers you require then you crank it up. This is all however only my opinion based on experience. Please do what you wish and what works for you. Ciao, Adrian 911C4 PS: There is also something called "infant mortality". New parts failing quickly after entry into service. Porsche would not have knowlingly released your C4S knowing the transmission was going to fail.

Didn't think the 996s were handbuilt?

urbanski, As I said in your previous post, make the dealer give you your money back. Then let your next car purchase speek to Porsche. Best regards, Scott

A huge heartfelt THANKS to everyone who responded. I appreciate your taking the time to help me. 1. Phil McGrath: Understood. I'll remove the part about dealers buying it back in the future. 2. tbr623: I'm leasing mine too, but I plan to convert that to conventional loan soon. Since it's unlikely I'd ever get a "guaranteed" trade in value like Mr. McGrath said, I may just keep it on lease. 3. David R. Hendrickson, Ed Newman: I'll modify the part about the loaner car, and shift the culpability for this to my dealer. 4. Palting: Your explaination about the misunderstanding between my dealer and Porsche, that in trying to appease me things got jumbled makes sense. Nobody probably lied, it's just human errors. I'll send the letter to the dealer, too. 5. greg1234: consider the reference to cancer gone. I work in the medical field, so that's the way my brain thinks. 6. Adrian: thanks for putting it all in perspective. I will follow your advice to the letter, relax a bit, downshift, and write a toned down version for PAG. Much appreciated input, friend. 7. scott watkins: I will if this thing fails again. To all: Thanks again. I posted this here for opinions of my first draft. I received most helpful advice and plan major revisions. Peace, and happy Porsche riding! To Rennlist: I sent in the request for membership a while ago, haven't received it! I'm tired of freeloading here and want to join! urb out

Urb, I used to be in business for myself and I developed a nice habit. I wrote my first letter letting people know how I feel, just like you did, but didn't mail it. The next day I re-read it and toned it down. When I got to the point where I dealt from my head and not my heart I figured out just what it was I wanted to accomplish with the letter. When you finally decide what it is realistically you want to accomplish with the letter, then the words will flow automatically and be just right. Good luck Hell, I'mm pissed off for you. Automobiles are the second most frustrating thing we have to deal with....and I can't tell you what the MOST frustrating thing we have to deal with is. (hint..are you married?) (humor) <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

My 2 cents: Immediately under addressee add a subject line: SUBJECT: Request 2 year warranty Extension for new C4S VIN xxxxxx and UNDERLINE subject line. In addition to the other foregoing suggestions, try to keep letter to ONE page, Max. 1 1/2. Leave out ref. to "lemon law". If you read it, you'll find, that dealer has 4 opportunities to fix SAME problem/defect. Personally, as previously stated, I would have returned this vehicle with catastrophic failure within a couple of hours and gone for a 2003. Best of luck to you.

Good suggestions . I think it is therapeutic to write a rather pissy letter;however, they never get sent. I would delete the paragragh stating that your alligiance to Porsche is gone. If so, you are a lost cause and there is no point in trying to appease you. The tone, it seems to me, should be chnged to suggest that you want to remain loyal to Porsche, but your confidence has been severly shaken, and here is the chance for Porsche to do the right thing.

Most seem to be suggesting take the high road and I agree, but I would still strongly make the point your porsche buying experience was unacceptable.

FWIW: I can see why you are so unhappy. I'd be livid also, but I think the best piece of advice I saw was to restructure the letter as one would for a non-native English speaker. I am reasonably literate, and my eyes started to glaze over by the end of the first paragraph. If it were in German, I'd have given up after the first sentence. Otherwise, a simple statement listing the chain of events, and a comment about your expectations of a company with the reputation (always a good word for customer service types) of Porsche is probably your best bet. At the end of the day, it's just a car. A bloody expensive car, but just a car. If a new Chevy had the same problem and then had the transmission replaced, do you think that anyone would care 3 years down the line? I know I would be happy that it was fixed personally. I'd be more inclined to castigate the dealer than the manufacturer. You might want to send them a copy also and let them know you are thinking seriously about voting with your wallet...

Urb, to digress slightly you mention that you leased the car, do you mind if I ask what the residual value was, I heard as high as 67% in 3 years for a C4S, if so there is your exit strategy, if this economy does not recover it is not likely that you would get 64-67% in three years (even before the transmission issues), but you keep the option of buying it with the lease and your exit is already in place. I know Porsches hold their value much better than BMW, Mercedes, etc but these cars are barely at 50% of MSRP now after 3 years, I am trying to unload a 740il with few takers.

Dear Urb. Maybe it would be a good approach to write a diplomatic letter to the dealer first and then if necessary, move along from there. I think at the moment Porsche dealers are generally a franchise from Porsche,(UK anyway) and therefore Porsche will initially cliam little or no reponsibility. Therefore if you start with the dealer and then you find little success, you started in the right direction to contact an ombudsman or to contact Porsche directly.

The dealer is the place to start. remember a "little honey, will get you a lot more worker bees, than vinagar" Some one state above "the dealer got his money" correct, and the Dealer will be helpful, has long as it's not an "abusive" situation Too many people go after the dealer with both guns ablazin.......and then get now where!

Good advice on saying it like it is, and not sending. Then re-writing in a matter that will get you what you want rather than upset people. "Kill them w/ kindness" No threats, ect and say you love their cars, but you would just like a sincere explanation ect. However, do make it known you are unsatisfied w/ the whole thing. If they were a starter company they would probably bend over backwards for you, but being so profitable, ect, a rude letter will most likely end up in the trash and you'll be labeled as a "problem customer" Note, the dealer may do this to you also. I know it's frustrating, and I'd be pissed too, but go do something relaxing or aggressive to get out the emotions. Then write a letter from the head as said above. Business is still business. And although the car is emotional to you, your a "number" right now. Maybe Porsche should treat their numbers better, but you are still one. And don't go buy a 360 Modena. Well, maybe a 550....

After having a transmission replaced and having spoke to Customer Commitment at Porsche in Georgia, I received a call from a district service manager this morning-three business days from the initial complaint. We spoke at length about my concerns that my MY99 996 had practically all the usual complaints addressed and now a catastrophic trans failure.Although quite pleasant and certaintly sympathetic,he clearly stated Porsches position. They will not, under ANY circumstance extend the factory warranty due to what he called legal issues. Regardless if you paid 80 or 380 thousand for that matter-any car can have faults-that is why a warranty is offered. Further,they feel the 4 year/50K package is competitive in the industry and also stated prior to MY99 a 2 year warranty was only offered.Problems addressed by TSB's would be addressed on a case by case basis if out of warranty.Those who choose to play weekend racer-re; track days,D.E. and autocross generally think under warranty all problems would be resolved--better think again. That activity is technically prohibited-so if you track,then break something and its fixed under warranty-consider yourself lucky.I knew what the response would be before I even got a call.I think it helps to express concerns-especially if other problems exist later-documentation is important. But if you think you'll get anything else-good luck. If you check the Lemon law in your state you'll be horified what it takes to file a successful claim.

OK, thanks again. Major revision of my letter is planned, after I calm down, get home, and have some beers Less vinegar, more honey. sawmilldriver, mine is a 60 month lease, with no penalty for converting it to a conventional loan. So the residual is 47,000 (what's that, about 53%?). I may convert it soon if the car does not act up. tbr623, thanks for your input. So I may not get any more warranty, I may get something...maybe a Porsche leather jacket, worth a shot. In the end I really just want Porsche to know how many comminication failures occured along the line. Maybe their process can improve. I know, karl k., but in keeping this car I got over $1000 from my dealer which paid for a whole year of insurance plus. The letter was pretty therapeutic. I'll listen to you all, tone it down, and be more focused for my next draft

urban, when you ready, I will tell you how Porsche fights!!! A coworker did battle with POrsche over an 02 cab..........nasty nsty nasty!

HEY URBANSKI.. MY BROTHER HAD TEH SAME PROBLem as you, he got his 02 996 C2 last month, around the end of july, afetr 3 days his transmission broke, th edealer told him too that a new tranny will take about 4-5 days to get here after more than a week of waiting my brother called teh dealer and still they gave him teh run around, what he did then was he called porsche commitment/customer service and yelled, barked, chewed the head of whomever he tallked too, told them taht he should have bought himself an SL 500, he even told tehm that porsche is a piece fo crap he payed 80, plus thousand for a car that breaks down in 2 days.. the people at porsche then told tehm taht they will do something for him to make him happy.. the next pay porsche caleld him back and told him taht they will pay for his 1st month payment of around 1800, dolalrs, and that the transmission was a customs and waiting for clearnace, it took them 3-4 days fromt he tiem they called for him to get his car back to running condition... they gave him key chains, shirts etc. too.. it dont hurt to yell at them once ina while.. porsche commitment works i beleive, i think they even got to fire a shoddy sales man for me, since a slaesman tried to sell me a car that i did not order, and they trie to pretend that, that car was the car taht i ordered. by the way if u answer a a survey for themtehy are supposed to send you a plaque that has a porsche log and your vin numbe rin teh bottom, im still waiting on mine, i had to call them back and they told me that there was a "mishap" and that i should get my plaque within 2-4 weeks.. i hope everything works out.. write them a letter and call them... be mad it worked for my brother...

"Didn't think the 996s were handbuilt?" I just don't understand that. I visited the factory this past April and there was nary a robot to be found. All work at Zuffenhausen is hand assembled I can assure you. regards Jon, who assumes he'll get excommunicated from rennlist for prodding the hiberating "993 vs 996" bear. I really should know better. &lt;ducking&gt;

Actually Ford Motor Company specifies that my Lincoln dealer must provide a comparable Lincoln vehicle when mine is in for service. And they are rentals, and I don't complain when a Lincoln is not available but that is rare. So while Volkswagen doesn't provide us with Porsches, that is them. Other manufacturers do. [quote]Originally posted by David R. Hendrickson: <strong>yeah, take out the stuff about the loaner. that's an individual dealer issue, manufacturers don't tell dealers what to offer for loaners. (SNIP) </strong><hr></blockquote>