New to board - Z06 Vet owner new to Porsche

I've been a corvette owner for many years and presently own a 2001 Z06. After reading and going to this years New York Auto Show I became very interested in the 996. I have been following this forum for the past few months and trying to learn as much as I can about Porsche cars. First, it's great to see Porsche car fanatics, just as faithful and crazy about their cars as vet owners. Second, I'm very impressed with the 996 build quality and dealer support, something I never received from my Chevy dealer. I have always used my vet's as a daily driver - yes - good and bad weather. I will continue to use my car as a daily driver - I believe they are meant to be driven and enjoyed! I have a question about bad weather driving and the C2 - how is it on snow? I assume it may be quite good since the weight of the engine is in the rear (I recall in college my Beetle was like a little tank in snow). Another question I have is about durability. Porsche does not offer extended warranty after the initial 4 years. I know repairs on this type of vehicle are expensive and without warranty your on your own. What is the track record on 4+ year old Porches? I appreciate any insights you folks could offer a prospective Porsche owner.

I use my cars as daily drivers. I had a Boxster (water cooled and same family as the 996) for 4.5 years and put over 60,000 mi on it. Mine was an early car and came with the ludicrous 2 year, 24k mi warrantee. The car is cheaper to maintain than the 993 and older Porsches. Cheaper but not cheap if you drive your car hard: brake pads, rotors, etc. I don't recall what I paid for my services. I wish my answer wasn't so vague but I'm not worried about repair bills with this car.

[quote] I have a question about bad weather driving and the C2 - how is it on snow? I assume it may be quite good since the weight of the engine is in the rear <hr></blockquote> Hi Oxford and welcome! If you drive in bad conditions like snow, rain, The C4 will give you much more the security feeling than the C2. In this conditions, for the C2 you will need the PSM (Porsche security management).This PSM is just great to keep you on the way. Wich one is an option in the C2 and standard in the C4, C4S and TT. This said, i think the C2 is very good on snow. But you need to learn a little bit how to drive it in this conditions. (Porsche winter stage for ex.) good look. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Hi Oxford. I'm not sure what Jim is talking about. Unless you track your car (a lot), you aren't going to go through brake pads, rotors, etc for a LONG time (I know a guy who just had to change his pads for the first time at 49k miles!). After the first 8k miles I completely upgraded the brakes to the 911 TT ones. That said, after one two day driver's ed and my extremely aggressive driving habits, the pads and rotors still looked like brand new when I switched them. The only expense I've had re: either of my last two 911s (the current nearly 2 year old 996 or the 98 993 with 36k miles that proceeded it) is the annual service which is cheap (appx $100 to $200 max). Outside of a crappy A/C vent installation at the factory, and a cover for the pop up rollbars that came off and blew away with the top down, neither car has needed any warranty work either. And, I drive this car and drove the last one in a VERY spirited fashion pretty much every time my butt is in it. Given this, I certainly do go through tires quickly (4k on one set of S02s on the 993 and 6k on the first set of P-Zeros on the 996), but that's not a Porsche issue relative to any other car. And my service experiences with both dealers (diff states) with which I've been dealing for the last several years has been great.

I guess issues with my Boxster: 1. I drove it extremely hard. Even my mechanics said that I really give it a work out and we glad to see I wasn't babying the car. 2. Perhaps the older Boxster brakes were smaller and lesser compared to the Carrera brakes. But the Boxster is a lighter car. 3. Those were worn out of many miles. 4. Again, just a tangential analogy for ideas of a recent water-cooled Porsche.

There was a thread started recently regarding the upkeep for a 996. Do a search of the archives, oxford. A lot of the people on this board not only drive their cars aggressively on a daily basis, but also take their car to the track either to compete or just have fun. Here's a link to one of the threads. <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001164" target="_blank">996 Upkeep</a>

Thanks for the various replies! I had the opportunity to visit a local Porsche dealer and discuss the various models. I do like the C4s, but get in line and get ready for a long wait! The C2 appears to be the more appropriate first step for me - both price and readily available for purchase. The salesman was pushing the lease and not the purchase. His reasoning was the four year warranty, lower monthly payments and vast majority of customers go this route. I'm not comfortable with lease, always purchased my cars. With the Porsche being upper price range is there a large depreciation that would lead me to consider a lease? I understand the value of keeping cash assets and paying for only what you use, but I don't want to keep paying and upgrading to next car. This was one of the reasons to look at a Porsche - body changes have not evolved to a point of "I must get the next years model" syndrome that american cars thrive on. It appears to me that hp and handling of 2002 or 2003 model will maintain my enjoyment of the car for years to come. Main reason concerned about the long term maintenance cost of the 996. I guess I'm running on many issues - sorry - but your educated thoughts on these issues are valuable.

my $0.02... If you go for a lease/buyout combo with low or no down payment, you loose/add about $20K - yea, you read it right. With purchase/financing this would be considerably less. If you plan on keeping the car, purchase/finance is the way to go. Depreciation on Porsche is low, especially in the later years. One of the attractive features, at least as far as I know about the '02 / '03 MY's, is that maintenance costs are low.

I had a '97 Boxster (first year) that was supercharged and drove the heck out of it (I think I drive like Ben). I know have a '99 (also first year) and drive it just as hard everytime I go out (read: redline shifts). I have had many problems with both. Mostly warranty stuff and do not expect many more problems this point forward (i'm out of warranty). I believe it was the pain of owning first year cars. I will agree with Ben on a couple of things. I had 37k miles on the Boxster when I sold it and still had original brakes. I have 27k on my 996 and still have original brakes. Can't say the same for tires though!!! I averaged 7k miles on the Boxster and looks like I am lucky if I hit 6k on my 996. Keep in mind though that neither of these cars are stock and the mods contibute to the early wear of the tires!!! (not cheap) All that said, I drove a Z06 for a bit and there is no comparison between the cars. You are making a good decision regardless of which model p-car you select! Good Luck!

Hi Oxford and welcome <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> I do like the C4s, but get in line and get ready for a long wait! The C2 appears to be the more appropriate first step for me - both price and readily available for purchase. When we ordered our 2002 C2 in April 2000,then took delivery in Sept 2001, the C4S was not available. So we modified our C2. Happy and safe motoring Bocky '02 Carrera C2 coupe 2001 Porsche 996 TT front bumper Porsche Aero side skirts 18" Carrera wheels Technic Package Bi-Xenon headlights Clear side markers Porsche red calipers Ruf RGT rear spoiler

Prior to ordering the C4S, I contacted five dealers and assembled a lot of information. Not one time did the "get ready for a long wait" come up. I ordered this month from the so-called largest Porsche dealer in the US and they told me the car would be delivered in late September. So, specifically on what basis do you make this statement? Just curious?

The Z06 is thee best modern day Corvette ever made and its total kickass on the street with that large dose of torque. I just wanted to start on a good note : ). If you have no problems driving in foul weather with the Z06 then you shouldn't have a problem with the 996- it's just a different approach(technique) to avoid a disatrous outcome as is when you track the car. Both are good at what they do but IMO it's easier to track a 996 then a Z06 andto have that kind of control is simply a adrenaline rush because you can almost immediately really push the car to its limits. The Z06 takes a bit a patience on the twisties but if done well there's hardly any competitor. PSM is a great feature if you want a added sense of security esp if foul weather is common in your area. Lease- I wouldn't recommend it since I did one time on a BMW 7 series(went from 3/5/7) and when lease was up and I wasn't going to get another BMW they rimmed me for whatever was wrong with the car($2300) plus you don't own the car later unless you pay for the residual value. If you plan to buy used then most if not all problems(TSB's) should be taken care of but make sure to get a PPI before purchase. Hope you get to keep both because the Z06 kicks *** straightline : ). Regards. Mike

"I ordered this month from the so-called largest Porsche dealer in the US and they told me the car would be delivered in late September." If the name of the dealership is Champion, then it's more than the "so-called" largest. If it isn't Champion, it is the "bogus" largest :-) oxford, call Suncoast Porsche in Fla (they'll ship it to you). They have even been known to discount C4Ss. RE: Vettes, I had an experience today not unlike the usual Vette/Viper experiences I have. A bunch of us took to the mountains for some fun. There was a pretty heavily modded Vette (C5 with a bigger than stock aluminum big block that came out of Chevy's truck line - the guy owns some Vette performance shop) in front of me and a Viper in the rear. I was having to slow down for the Vette (to keep from giving him an enema) in the corners (granted my suspension is not stock in the least) as he often had to use BOTH lanes to make the turns (ditto for the Viper) while I stayed in one. Also, the butt end kept coming out on the Vette as all that torque will easily cause it to do unless you are very careful. More to the point, I smelled his burning brake fluid most of the way and he said he was experiencing mucho fade (ditto for weak brakes on the Viper). Each was complaining of noises and talking about power steering problems, brakes, belts they thought sounded loose, etc. My car didn't present one problem and kept on running like it always does for me. That is the difference between the American muscle and the German finesse of the Porsche. The build quality just isn't comparable IMO. But those two were so fun to listen to and watch tires being lit up on :-)

[quote]Originally posted by oxford: <strong>dealer support, something I never received from my Chevy dealer.</strong><hr></blockquote> In what way? Champion is good with sales but I'm not impressed with service. Now they give loaner cars; it's about time.

The dealer I ordered from is Champion. I also own a 2001 Corvette Convertible, Black/Silver. Actually, my first new vette was a 1964 and I have own a number of these great cars over the years. The only discount offer I received was from Champion. The sales guy Paul Householder will also give you free shipping in a closed van, but it will reduce the discount. I live close enough to pick it up at his place. Specifically, he told me four months was a realistic delivery date. About half the cars built in July will be 2002's and half will be 2003's. Allocation is an important factor. Whoever, ordered from the North Orlando Porsche dealer might face that problem; thus the November delivery date. Low volume dealers receive less allocation. I have been down that road with Corvette. I am keeping my American Muscle Car. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

"Allocation is an important factor. Whoever, ordered from the North Orlando Porsche dealer might face that problem; thus the November delivery date. Low volume dealers receive less allocation." UGH! Low allocation isn't the only thing that dealership's sales department is low on. Get EVERYTHING in writing when dealing with the guys at Porsche of Orlando. And, invest in a TALL set of boots before doing business there. Service dept. is good though.

ben in lj, What prior experience has grown the sour grapes, and who did you deal with at the time? If this is way off topic and does not belong here, I apologize (you may send me a private mail), but it is very important to me knowing what I am dealing with and I believe others will profit as well. BTW, PoNO claims allocation is not an issue and that they are the 8th largest dealer in the nation. Given approx. 25,000 sales/year in the US, this would mean....hmmmm, how many Porsche dealerships are there in the states?

[quote]Originally posted by ohsixx: <strong>The sales guy Paul Householder will also give you free shipping in a closed van, but it will reduce the discount.</strong><hr></blockquote> Then it isn't free is it? BTW, if you got the bixenon headlights, make sure they align them properly. Mine weren't set up right when I picked up my car.

Reine: "What prior experience has grown the sour grapes" My last two Porsche's came from there - one used and one ordered new. "and who did you deal with at the time?" Vernon Knoll as well as the sales manager Andrew Parkenson. Vernon had some serious problems with the truth and Andrew had some serious problems with honoring deals. "PoNO claims allocation is not an issue and that they are the 8th largest dealer in the nation" I see they are still having some serious problems with the truth. PoNO is a **** ant. Heck, I think they might even be ranked last in terms of volume for their region! In the US, they are a spec. Knowing PoNO and especially Vernon, they're probably "8th largest" dealer in their "region" in terms of volume. If they were being truthful (cough, cough, cough), they probably said we're the "8th largest" without making the "in the US or in the region" distinction. If they weren't being truthful, they said we're the 8th largest in the country. If you want a good deal from people who do what they say they're going to do, just call Suncoast Porsche as well as Bert Smith. They're each less than 2 hours away.

[quote]Originally posted by ReineWonne: <strong>Depreciation on Porsche is low, especially in the later years. </strong><hr></blockquote> Sure can't agree with this on 996 cars From $85k sticker prices, you can now buy all the '99 C2 cabs you want for $57k. That's 11% depreciation per year. Good news for the secondary buyer like me who will be able to buy a 5 year old 996 for $45k in 2 years

It never felt right to me to buy someone else's car. Of course, I never liked used women either. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I agree with Ohsix- nothing better then a new car. Who cares about resale value when you enjoy the car immensely. Like people say how can you put a price on something that makes you happy day in and day out. Darn at 11% depreciation each year does that mean I could get a '99 for free after 9 years? Darn-should had waited longer : (. Regards. Mike

"Darn at 11% depreciation each year does that mean I could get a '99 for free after 9 years?" It's a bit worse than 11%, especially in the first year owing to sales, luxury and gas guzzler tax. I actually sold my 98 993 for $50 more than I bought it for 7 months earlier. And, I went ahead and ordered new (in 7/00) because at that time, a used 996 cab was running about the same as a new one! Oh the crazy days. After having the break even experience with the 993 and seeing the crazy strong used 996 market, I figured I'd probably do ok (especially given the discount on the new car). However, if I'd have known how badly the resale prices would fall out of bed, I'd have leased instead of bought for sure. The leasing companies who no doubt have gotten their butts handed to them re: silly residual values born of the dot.com days, are probably up to speed now though. If I were in the market for a 996 cab today, I'd probably just buy a 2000 to 2001 ultra-low mileage garage queen from an **** owner for $15 to $20k (including tax savings) less. All that said, I'm extremely glad I bought the car and have since spent (pissed away) appx $15k extra on it making it just like I want it. Porsche is going to have to come out with something really special (and before TPC comes up with a supercharger) to pry this car away from me.

Cheers to that, 996FLT6; one can't put a price on accepting no substitute; but one CAN be concious about options and price...ohsixx, I am with you too; --no one has driven it; it truly is yours-- Shark01 - a car is a depreciating item by default. Porsche are holding up very well in that crowd (so are others like MB, BMW, and even some Japanese cars) It is always a (financially) loosing proposition, but you can't put that on a scale with money, would you not agree? ben in lj, thanks for being so open about your experience with PoNO. None of the names you have mentioned are familiar and again, as we have stated earlier, the general experience was rather plesant. Time will have to pass before we can make a judgement on our experiences - it is still so early in the process. Look out for further posts as we progress with our order. - We have an entire post unanswered at this time in regards to what to expect from this time forward - any takers??? ("VarioR?am, Expectations, PCA, and Kudos!" from 6/9) btw, the statement about allocation was clearly nation-wide "PoNO is 8th in the Nation"; so here is one we'll have to chew on As you stated, service is good; something to look forward to. We are very close to the dealership, and two hours to Suncoast would be quite a drive. Let's hope all will be well and once we get past the money stage they will take some honor in their claims. Cheers <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

"As you stated, service is good; something to look forward to. We are very clode to the dealership, and two hours to Suncoast would be quite a drive." No, I don't know ANYTHING about the "service" dept at Suncoast. Rather I was speaking solely of the sales "service". "Sean Mickle" at PoNO always did a great job servicing my cars and I'd recommend him highly!

I will keep an eye out for Sean

[quote]Originally posted by ReineWonne: <strong>Shark01 - a car is a depreciating item by default. Porsche are holding up very well in that crowd (so are others like MB, BMW, and even some Japanese cars) It is always a (financially) loosing proposition, but you can't put that on a scale with money, would you not agree? </strong><hr></blockquote> Yes, every car depreciates....but not at the rate the 996 is The prices of '99s are now lower than '97-'98 models. I just couldn't recommend buying a new one, why not let someone else take the beating?

[quote]Originally posted by Shark01: <strong> Yes, every car depreciates....but not at the rate the 996 is The prices of '99s are now lower than '97-'98 models. I just couldn't recommend buying a new one, why not let someone else take the beating?</strong><hr></blockquote> I don't think the '99 996 is a good measure of the future used car Porsche market. No more air-cooled Porsches will be built, so naturally, the value of the air-cooled Porsche stays up. The, you try to compare it with the '99 996, the first generation of the new Porsche. That comparison is just unrealistic for several reasons. One I already mentioned above. Second, MY '99 had the unfortunate teething problems. Minor problems, but well publisized. Third, the MY '01 and up have more horses and bells. Fourth, the dealers are anxious to sell the new C2's due to the new model line-up, so they are giving discounts. Based on the above, the value of the MY '99 is down, down, down. Eventually, things should settle down. Until that time, resale value of MY'99 996 is NOT representative of the resale value of the whole 996 line. As a corollary, now is an excellent time to buy a used Porsche if you are looking for discounts, mainly because the market is down. It is also a good time to buy a NEW C2 or even Turbo, since they are all being discounted because it seems EVERYBODY wants a C4S. Only a lunatic would buy a C4S..... wait a minute, I bought one!!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> (been waiting for a chance to use that smilie )

996 resale vs. 993 is largely a result of supply/demand. A LOT more 996s were made than were 993s.