What should I do?

Guys, It's been tough trying to come to a decision. I am still in the process of selling my 996 C2. And though it's a great car, it bothers me to know that a few exceptional pieces can either give the car a hard time or outright out run the 996. Anything with 300HP will give our cars a difficult time to catch or outrun and besides that, it seems as if most of the Euro cars are now coming out with anything from 350~400HP (Jag, BMW, AMG Mercs, etc). So in that respect, out goes the 996. But I wanted to gain as many opinions as possible. What should I replace it with? A 996TT, SL55, 360 Modena, or does anyone care to throw anything else they deem worthy? I value everyone's opinion since we're pretty much on the same page from owning the 996. I know the choices I've listed are all very different, but here are my pros for each: SL55: Pros: cheaper to maintain, nearly as fast if not faster than the aforementioned cars - 500HP, cheaper maintence, both a hardtop and roadster at the same time, can't top the luxury appointments Cons: still heavy, no manuel transmission, not as exciting as other choices? 996TT: Pros: outright (reliable and comfortable)beast, enuff said Cons: pretty much the same car with 4WD and 115 more horses - should that warrant a $30K loss on my car and to shelve out another $60K to cover the difference? 360: Pros: I don't think I need to list them Cons: too damn expensive - figure by 10K miles you've spent nearly $200K. Sorry to post so much, it's just that I am having so many thoughts pulling me in so many directions. What would you guys do...though I know the 360 may get the majority of the nods, please consider the economical aspect of it. Thanks in advance.

OrisChrono, I really don't want to give you a hard time, but I just got a cup of coffee and there's nothing going on in the market this morning. So.... What's with the HP sobs, man? I think it's been discussed a thousand times before, but it keeps coming up. Sorry, but I really don't agree with "Anything with 300HP will give our cars a difficult time to catch or outrun...." Go to the track and run a few laps with an experienced driver in the 996 and whatever car you're refering to- then let's talk. The cars you mentioned are all great cars. I'd love to own one of each, plus a few more you didn't mention. However, because of MONEY, space, and time constraints I had to choose one. On Thursday I'll be going with my PC of Bergamo to France's Charade which is built into the volcanic mountains and has varying elevations. <a href="http://www.charade.fr/eng/trace_piste.html" target="_blank">http://www.charade.fr/eng/trace_piste.html</a> Why bring this up? Because last trip we made we left in a group of @25 996s and a few 993s, we drove @600km to get to Austria, spent a day on the track in Hungary, spent another day tooling around, and finally drove home 600km. All without any mechanical problems. Most of the guys use their cars as daily drivers and needed them on Monday BTW. I'd really be curious to see 25 of any of the other cars you mentioned be able to do the same. Besides being reliable, the 996 is faster on the track than the cars you mentioned. (At least when the same novice driver is driving both) From what I've seen- on short tracks the Turbo does no better than a C2, but on Fast tracks like Monza the Turbo simply rules when top speed becomes important. As far as the C2 vs the Turbo- that's really a matter of personal choice. I had decided last year I wanted the Turbo or GT2, but after some serious time on the track went with the C4S instead. I am not able to take the C4S (or my old C2) even near the capabilities of the car. That's only me personally, but it is probably the case for many others also. Yeah, I gave up the bragging rights to say I have 420HP and would probably lose some street light-to-light races (In Italy there is no light-to-light racing. You'd get laughed at by the Italians if you tried it), but I have a car that offers me what I feel I need. Better braking, wider stance, and stiffer suspension than my old C2. I certainly didn't have to change, but I really love the body style and the interior is much improved over the '99 C2. I don't mean to be raving on and on, but really think most of us should stop and think once in a while about what we have and if it's right for us. When we focus on what someone else has we can always find someone who has something bigger, better, newer etc etc than us. (ie. more HP) If you want HP bragging rights and a car for accelerating 500yards from streetlight to streetlight, there are better choices than the 996. And quite honestly, if you do the math and decide the 996 is not the right car for YOU, change it! There are a lot of great cars out there and you can always come back to Porsche. No one car is perfect for everyone. You have to make the choice yourself though. Sorry to jump all over you, but I can understand you wanting to change your car. And right now we are lucky to have lots of excellent choices. I just don't agree that a valid argument to changing would be that other cars "with 300HP will give our cars a difficult time to catch or outrun..." ps. take a look at the Maserati

OrisChrono, Im a little confused as to why you want to sell. If its because you want more HP, then the cheapest way is to upgrade/tune up your car. Send it off to an excellent company and they will do the works to your car. If there are more reasons then that, you have such a good choice that I sympathise... In my books it would be the SL without any doubt... and if youre not happy with it (which I doubt) then you can sell at premium. Regards

A few comments on your post: 1. I don't care what car you get, there will always be a faster car out there. There are kids in my area that run sub 10 sec 1/4 miles in Hondas! 2. As already stated, take it to the track. The 996 is a quick car on the track, with the 030 suspension, it's very quick. Of the cars you mentioned, the Ferrari would be competitive at the track, however, then you should be compairing it to the TT. Personally, I'd stick with the 996... Roy

James in Italy summed up the situation well, IMO. Although I cannot speak to the C2 as he did, the C4s is all that I can handle--maybe more. I have been tempted to get the raw power of the TT, but will stay with the C4S for a year before any change. The fact is that there is no way off track that one can test the limits of the C2, C4s or TT in the US. If you want pure 1/4 mi. speed, get a Corvette and have the Lingenfelter supercharger installed. The whole package for a sub 12 second 1/4 and a sub 4 sec. 0-60 time will cost under $60K, half the cost of a TT. A Corvette just is not in the same class as a C2, C4S or TT in many admittedly subjective respects. The attributes of Porsche go well beyond other cars and ultimately only the individual owners can apreciate their car. It is obviously a very personal decision, and I respect anyone's choice of automobile. It is in that spirit that I offer my observations.

I think I have different desires than you do. HP isn't the be all to me. I drove a new 996TT, C2, C4S and bought the C4S. I thought the 996TT was overkill for me and knew I'd lose my license in 48 hours. Also, for that kind of money I want a more visceral feel and the only way to get that is the Ferrari. In fact of the cars on your list, the only one I would consider is the Modena 360. If I had the dinero and could stomach spending that much money on a car, then I would get it. (Even if had the money I'm not sure I could justify the price). I am not a fan of Mercedes because of the mandated automatic transmission. The Maserati is too bland looking but it drove wonderfully (amazing brakes).

James-Italy, best treatise I've read on the subject. Not much more to add. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Guys, Thanks for all the input. I appreciate the feedbacks. I know the aregument about the HP thing is surely not the only point to make. I should have also noted that I do not track my car or have intentions to do so. So my perspective is limited to simple street and highway driving. With that said, the Porsche is really a great car and has satisfied me up until now. It never gave me any problems and so you all may think I am crazy to even bring up this idea of selling it for something else. Maybe I am... <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> In anycase I will continue to keep my options open, including keeping the 996. However I have my eyes set on the AMG SL55...a balance of power, refinement, and reliability. Again I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks guys.

Thanks for keeping a good spirit- sorry if I ranted a bit. Take a long drive in your 996 and let your heart tell you what you should do. The Mercedes is certainly a beautiful car and you wouldn't go wrong with it. I think you could easily make a case for it if that is what you want. If this car is your daily driver I'd look to stay Porsche or Mercedes. If you don't track the car, I'd have to think the TT would be the wrong choice. The 360 Modena is beautiful, but lacks reliability (at from what I've seen on the on the track). I've never seen a 360 Modena DRIVEN home from a track day, but always put on a flatbed towing truck. Good luck in whatever you choose!

I've gathered a problem with the Modena is the F1 tranny's throw out bearing. This was not a problem with the F355 F1 transmission. I've run with them...or behind them...on the track and I've never seen them on the sidelines with problems.

Since you don't plan to track and basically use for street/highway here's my advice: Your main point is more power(hp/trq) 360 Modena- what can you say- it's a stunning car but plaqued with the stigma of durability/reliability from past Ferrari's(maybe that's changed) and if you can handle people gawking and the attention and worrying about getting car dinged or something you have to weigh that out. It's a 2 seater so space is limited. Still for me if I could have 2 cars- it be that one and a Porsche(I'm dreaming). Mercedes SL55 AMG- fast but only comes in automatic(when will they offer manuals in the US-if they did I would get one myself), great cruiser and great looks(love the retractable hardtop), space is limited as well. Kinda expensive and you be paying a premium since it's brand new model. Porsche TT- you will definitely get the "seat of your pants" feeling with this one over a NA 996, actually is a 2+2 coupe(golf buddies will like it and kids as well-it's useful if you need the space, great cruiser and durability/reliability is there, comes in manual or automatic, same price as SL55 maybe less even. other notables: Corvette Z06-cheap and fast and nice-looking/ 2 seater-limited space/ reliability and durability is question mark and maybe a bit harsh in ride so may not serve well as a daily driver, comes in manual tranny(do they have auto's for this model?). Good luck in your decision. Regards. Mike

At the risk of offending anyone, if it is HP that is lacking, why not the BMW M5. At 400HP it is available with a MT and has good German reliability and dependability, IMHO! Best of luck with whatever you choose!

Also forgot to add M5 and M3: M3- one of the best sixes out there, can seat 4 adults comfortably, have coupe and convertible versions, comes in mannys or SMG transmission, still doesn't look like a racecar-very simlar to the stock 3 series IMO, reliability/durability is there, price is right. M5- I think it's the best performance sedan out there, very fast for a sedan, comes in manny transmission(no auto though-be nice if they put an SMG in that one so my wife can drive it-I love manny's so SMG is a perfect hybrid for my wife and I), still not sporty enough but better looking then the E55 AMG(til when the new E amg comes in). I just put those noitables out there and there are plenty more out there so Good luck again. Mike

FWIW my younger brother has a '94 Diablo and an '01 TT. My older brother has an SL600. A good friend and neighbor has an '00 M5. I have driven them all quite a few times. I like my car the best

I have not driven the SL 55, but have had an '02 CL 500 Sport for about 7 months and have driven the new SL 500 for about an hour. We expect my wife's SL 500 in the fall. Despite the strength, safety and luxury of the MB, it is just nothing like driving our C4S. The SL 55 has been uprated in hp by MB before its US introduction to 500 or so. It will be very fast and easy to drive. The tiptronic transmission, which I gather has steering wheel mounted up and downshift buttons on the SL 55, is good. The problem with the car will be that Automatic Body Control (ABC) feels weird and unsatisfying after driving a 996, IMO. ABC keeps my CL planted and eliminates 95% of body roll in sport setting, but just doesn't feel right to me. I've never pushed it beyond its limit, so cannot report on how one would know the point where it will break loose. I will say that the SL 500 feels about 500 pounds lighter than it is, but it (and the SL 55) are over 4000 pounds. Drive one before you buy. BTW, they will be very hard to acquire without paying a premium for at least the first year. I think that the first US delivery is scheduled for August. Oh yes, I have decided to sell my CL, which is a beautiful and awesome car, but just is nothing like driving the C4S.

[quote]Originally posted by J*O: <strong>FWIW my younger brother has a '94 Diablo and an '01 TT. :eek</strong><hr></blockquote>Jes' Louise, what does your younger brother do for a living? Family money? Married into it? Spilled Starbucks coffee on his lap and won a lawsuite? Seriously, that's an impressive pair of cars.

My 2 cents... I have an 02 TTx50 and a 94 BMW850CSI (with all usual Dinan and Borla stuff)and have driven a ZO6 and 355 Ferrari but not an AMGSL55 or 360. My advice is stay with the Porsche. 99% of all street driving is at part throttle, and the tactile sense of the car is most important. No matter how much power you have, you always get used to it and could handle more. Most of the fun of driving is the few high speed corners you take, and there the Porsche excells. I passed on the 360 when I thought about the 15,000 mile service, which I believe is engine out for new belts. The 355 I drove didn't seem faster than the Porsche in street driving, though the noise is great (at least for a while). If you really want to enjoy the drive, and want to put more than 15,000 miles on your car, I can't see you doing better than what you've got. As far as the AMG, that's why there is chocolate and vanilla. Good luck. AS

360 and 355 services at 15kmi intervals need engines dropped. If there are no surprises like a water pump replacement etc., then you are looking at around $4500 from an independent good Ferrari mechanic. It'll likely be more if it's done a dealership.

I don't know what you guys are doing here?! You guys keep comparing the alternatives to a 996?! What a joke! Have you ever seen an ad from Porsche? PORSCHE - there is NO subsitute! IMO, 996 is the best combination of performance, comfort, price(value), reliability, & practicality (did i miss anything?) The 996 or simply the PORSCHE brand of vehicles are the top notch on the market. It is even the best from Germany. MBZ & BMW are not the alternatives of PORSCHE, they can only be the subsitution to many other brand of cars. Among the wish list of cars mentioned here, FERRARI (all) is the only brand that can be a companion for PORSCHE (look, not even an alternative) In the history of motor racing, FERRARI & PORSCHE are the best matched competitors, one from Italy, the other from Germany, there is absolutely no other German brand can be the alternative to a PORSCHE, not now, not 4ever!! Cheers <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[quote]Originally posted by OrisChrono: <strong>it bothers me to know that a few exceptional pieces can either give the car a hard time or outright out run the 996.</strong><hr></blockquote> Is this bothersome knowledge based upon; a) your personal experience of defeat at the hands of exceptional pieces, or b) your judgement based on the written claims &/or opinions of others? if a, then get a GT2... if b, get a Benz w/ great specs-on-paper.

Lawrence, Tell us how you really feel. But I agree. I really loved my Boxster and Ferrari 328 but this car is incredible. And I'm only experience it up to 4300 rpm since I have about 750 mi left to break in!

You are being far too logical in your decision process. Choosing a car is like choosing a wife. You shouldn't be making the decision based on numbers or what other people think. Drive them and buy the car you love. If you don't love any of them then get something else or a honda..... There will always be faster cars (believe me, I know), cars with more herritage, more reliable cars, etc. Maybe I am just too passionate about cars but I would/could never choose a car based on a check list of pros and cons. Choose the car that makes you happy to go to work knowing you will be driving it. The car you start up just to hear it run (now that I got my Corsa exaust). The car that makes you look forward to washing it or changing its oil. Ok, enough..... I'm going out to the garage... <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

Guys, Thank you for all the feedbacks. I don't mind the fact that most of you are trying to convince me to stick with the 996. In fact I love you guys for it, afterall this is a Porsche forum. I will try to see if I can afford to keep both. We'll see how business goes. However with having good relations with a Mercedes dealer, I am apparently 1st in line for their first SL55 at sticker. It is very difficult to pass up such an opportunity. In retrospect, though I love the Ferrari 360 I figure it is just too expensive. In all honesty I think I will just wait until the used cars come down in price like the F355s. And as for the 996TT, it's merely the same car as the 996 except for another 115HP. I figure I'd rather turbo charge my C2 for less than the difference of trading up. I think the Benz fits the spot simply because of price to power + overall package. I only drive on the road so tracking is not an issue for me. And even if such cars as the Z06 or Viper are bigger "bang for the buck", I don't think their level of comfort can match the Mercedes. And last but not least a Mercedes is a Mercedes, just as a Porsche is a Porsche. I plan to move up in class not down (at least as long as business allows me). So that's currently where I am at. Again thanks for everyones input. By the way did anyone hear anything about the SL55 being bumped up from 469HP to 500HP? I plan to take the car to Brabus and have their gurus up it to 530~550HP. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Kevin, In trying to answer your question; try this: run at 60Mph with an Mercedes S500. Then have both cars gun it from there. I believe the MB will either keep up or even possibly out run the 996. Although the argument that the 996 will destroy the S500 on curvy roads will always stand, the truth is (at least for me) that I will be spending 90% of my time going fast in a straight line. Apparently where I live are just straight roads and straight Freeways. If you live in LA and drive the 110 Freeways you'll know what I mean. I guess that's why they make different cars for different purposes. Not an argument, just my observation.

OrisChrono, I do not agree with you! You know what's next on every straight road? A CORNER! I live in LA too, I know how 110 looks like. If you want the fastest 0-60 street car, you should wait for the Mitsu EVO 7/8 and spend $5000 on upgrading it, it will beat all the super cars in 0-60 category! The EVO can do 4.8 sec in stock form which runs as fast as many super car including your next move - SL55 (although that is not a super car!) SL55 is a very nice car (I like it very much) but you just can't see it as a 996 alternative! They are in a totally different class. Again, if your ultimate goal is to out run everyone on the block, you shouldn't get an SL55! You just don't know what an SL55 is built for. Spend money on an SL55's engine with Brabus/AMG to push it faster is like pushing an artist to become a boxer! I know you can come up with all kinds of excuses to get an SL55 simply because you just want it. May be you should post your leads on an SL forum instead of a PORSCHE forum. Final words, hope you don't feel my comments are offensive, but go ahead to get your SL55, it is a nice nice car but it cannot be an alternative of PORSCHE and more important the SL55 is not made to out run other cars on the street! Good Luck & enjoy your SL55

The Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VII should be quite a blast as a project. Been waiting patiently for it's arrival : ). Regards. Mike

In our group, we have 8 of us already on the list of the EVO 7/8. Hope to see this car by the end of 02 or early 03! I have a chance of test drove an EVO 7 (Japan Spec) here in LA. The car is very fast but it still feel cheap. The RECARO seats are superb, the brembo 4 piston caliper brakes stop you like you would expected on a PORSCHE, however, the steering input & feedback is nothing like PORSCHE for which a 996 is really shines on this category!! I like the EVO 7/8, but i am not sure if I would spend the $35K to own one. They are fast & is a blast to drive, but they are not like a PORSCHE for which you must own once in your lifetime..... i just don't have the emotion to own one (the EVO i meant). <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

It was either the subaru STi or the mitsu evo VII that I be interested in getting. I think from overall looks the mitsu looks better. But in no way I'm comparing Porsche's to these. It's just fun to tinker with other cars and all. Regards. mike

OC, I appreciate your point, and your appreciation of the Benz - I have one in addition to 3 Porsches. The point of my "decision tree" was to (help you) determine whether the performance differential you are concerned about is because you have actually been left behind by the alternative makes you are considering, or if your concern & analysis is a theoretical one. I have had some experience driving in LA on a day-to-day basis, and while there may be few corners in daily drivng, it also appears that traffic density obviates many "60mph-to-topend rollouts" (excepts as viewed from a TV helicopter on the "America's Criminal's Bad Driving Channel"). If it is transient response that you are getting at, I am with you whole-heartedly. I have no idea why 0-60 is such a benchmark measure, especially for Porsches & other Sports-GT cars. Isn't 40 - 120 - 40 (or some similar) a more appropriate measure for comparison? Isn't Power-to-weight more important than HP alone? Skidpad, slalom & lap time #s are very meaningful too, since they provide an integrated measure. And as almost everyone concurs, isn't the "feel", "driving dynamic" and "driver satisfaction" more important criteria than any quantifiable metric (esp. in street cars)? Ultimately, the subjective trumps the objective where personal choice comes to play (IMO). Regardless, you are fortunate enough to be in a position to ponder, test & select... so enjoy & please keep us abreast of your efforts!

Kevin, I appreciate your views and I take them with a positive vibe. No doubt that Porsche is more involving and more exciting to drive compared to other marques out there. I agree with everyone who wants to make that point. I guess if anything I want my next addition to be a good one. And the SL55, though not as involving seems to be a good choice (I've also included the M5 into consideration). It has good HP, though weight is heavy but understandably so, and the brakes are something to be in awe of. Was it just me or did the test on the SL500 already out ranked it's competition by a wide margin (the issue that C&D reviewed the SL500). And it's also a nice cruiser, certainly not something you would take to track. Overall just a nice package. I don't know...am I getting old?

Oh and I forgot to add...I am no longer using the specs of the car to do it anymore. I am just going to go by what I "feel" is a good package. I don't think any of us would complain about the specs on the 996TT, the 360, or the SL55. They are all decent cars and anyone of us that can even possibly consider it is considered lucky. But having a car that can he a real coupe and roadster at the sametime, yet with more HP than you really need, good brakes....all for cheaper (assuming sticker), than the 996TT, and 360, just wins me over... So...but hey...thank you all for joining this topic..much appreciate it. PS - it would be interesting to see a shoot out involving at least those 3 cars.

OC, get what makes you happy as you would have to pay for it, live with it and maintain it. I expect we would all be happy to hear more post from you whatever model Porsche you move on to!

You might want to check out the SL forum if you want the latest on the SL 55. <a href="http://www.mbworld.org/forum/w215/board/home.html" target="_blank">http://www.mbworld.org/forum/w215/board/home.html</a> As I said in an earlier post, the driving experience of an MB with ABC is far from my '02 C4S and I am sure, a TT. I gather that the TT X50 is a much more visceral exoerience than the TT. As for cost, I suspect that to get an SL 55 at MSRP, if you have not been on a waiting list for the past couple of years, is not realistic. Do not know what the premium is, but $25k plus would not be surprising, which puts you in the TT X50 range. Of course, if you are willing to wait for another year or two you may be able to get a 55 for less. I am disappointed in high end MB's regarding their value in the after market. The SL 55 may be a different story, but I wouldn't bet on it a couple of years from now.

4 year waiting list on the SL in the UK

I'd like to make some comments that might be a slightly different viewpoint - Having lots of power is really fun. I went through a 'handling' phase for many years driving Alfa Romeos. I owned an E36 M3 for a few years and have spent some time driving my friends 964 C2 (which I much prefer overall too the BMW). I recently bought a Viper and I'm not here to diss Porsches, because I honestly believe the new C2 (and especially C4S) are better cars. However, the engine in the Viper makes it an absolute blast to drive. Dispite all the odd characteristic of the car, I truly enjoy it. There is power at any rpm, and the car is utterly effortless on the road. High speed acceleration (130 mph plus)is also terrific. My point is, that power *is* fun. If I was choosing between the cars that we have been discussing, and if I could afford it, I'd go for the 996TT. While I don't think it's as beautiful as the 360 Modena, it is significantly less money, still darn attractive, has lots of power (which I like), and (I can assume) great handling and road feel similar to the other Porsches I have driven. Jim