"Would I ever buy a 996?"

Are the guys at the 993 board funny or they just bunch of guys hanging onto the last straw? I mean I love all porsche but they seem to love to make fun of 996 in particular. They seem to test drive it and say 996 is not a sports car like the 993 etc etc. But, isnt the 996 pretty much better in every area in term of performance. As, for the feel of the car. I guess instead of being fast they want to feel fast. If you want that then go and get a go cart. So, let me see if any 993 guys out there would take on a stock 996 at the track. I love all porsche but please 993 guys no more crap from a slow car crew.

I can understand that some are critical of the 996 but it's a great car. Clearly I think so because I ordered one yesteday. I think the 993 provides a more visceral, exciting car to drive but the 996 outperforms it. The 996 is a more refined grand touring car with less of the rawness. That's why I love my Ferrari 328. It's an '86 but it is one of the most fun cars I have ever driven. But I don't go knocking the 355, 360, 550 or any car that is competent. And the 996 is more than competent.

Agreed! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> May I recommend your post to the 993 forum? Richard <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

They're all nice cars. They're just good at different things. Which is great, because it gives us plenty of choice!

Richard in Coloroda, Sure go ahead so I can read or they can tell me that their 993 is so so special over my 996. Like I said, I love all porsches but not all the porsche owerns.

[quote]Originally posted by Richard in Colorado: <strong>Agreed! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> May I recommend your post to the 993 forum? Richard <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>If you mean my post, sure, go ahead.

996operator: No, we 993 owners are neither being funny nor hanging on to the last straw. We who love the raw (more direct) feel of a sports car simply lament Porsche building the venerable 911 in a softer and cheaper version. Is the 996 faster? Of course, no question about that, but performance is only one of the many aspects of what the 911 has to offer. If performance is the most important thing to a potential 911 buyer, then by all means buy the 996. However, if the feel of the car is as important or more so, then the 993 is where your money should go. Also, many of the 993 guys wouldn't want a 911 that is constantly misidentified for a Boxster...nor actually sharing half the car structure with a Boxster. (Don't get me wrong. The Boxster is a nice car - just don't make the 911 nearly identical.) In short, the 993 was designed as a sports car. The 996 was designed as a GT car. Simply two great, but different, cars by the same manufacturer. For me it came down to the feel of the car and what it was designed for. I almost went the 996 route. I actually ordered a new C2. When it arrived, I looked it over, sat in it, and promptly declined it (and ate the deposit). I just knew that if I took the 996, that sooner or later I would regret not getting the 993. I am now so glad I made that decision as it was the right move for me. However, that's only my story. FWIW. In short, let's all just feel blessed to be Porsche owners!

Hi All, I hope you arent taking this 993/996 thing too personally. After all, Porsche couldnt have gotten away with air cooled engines for much longer anyway, with the stricter changes in so many regulations. Dont get me wrong. I do very much like the 996s and 964s and so on as well as the boxsters and even the cayenne (its kinda growing on me) And the Ferraris and the Mercs and even a few BMWs as well as a few others. Opinions are just opinions and are from different perspectives. I love my 993 but boy is it expensive to maintain.... but great to drive and to look at. A toast to all.

I started one of those threads because I have legitimate questions about which generation I should target. Quite frankly, the 996 fits better for me in a lot of respects. But it really bothers me that it isn't accepted by the enthusiasts, and the depreciation rates are frankly staggering. No flames intended, but I value the opinion of the hard core people here.

After owning Porsches for more than 20 years I consider myself an enthusiast! I have owned a 914 , a 911S (70's) and I now own a 996 . Certainly with every "new" Porsche there have been some that don't want to recogize it as a "Porsche". I'm sorry I don't consider those folks real Porsche enthusiasts. Most of the improvements in modern Porsches came from the develpoment that Porsche has done in new models (i.e. water cooled Turbo and GT2). I think this so called "ethusiast" group is gettting smaller by the day AND I'll be glad when we all recogize the huge number of great models Porsche has made... and will make! Loren (99 996)

Mike Elmore, I cannot believe your dealer took your deposit. I hope you realize that when they told you that they have to take your money to cover costs for storage, loss of potential income, inconvenience and all that manure, they sold that car 5 minutes to somebody else after you turned around and left. Frankly, I don't understand the concept of "deposit". When I bought my Acura Legend, F-350, and Dodge Caravan, I did not put any deposit down! In fact, the poor salesman at Acura even bought me lunch after the test drive. Can someone tell me why a deposit is required for Porsches, BMW's, MB's and other high marque cars? Heck, the dealers make enough money off of them.

Because then every shmo could order a car and then back out of it wasting the dealer's allocation?

Michael Elmore So you still on the feeling issue. Didnt you read my comments from the get go. Want feel GO and GET a GO CART then you see what RAW is all about. How does it feel to know that your 993 couldnt handle a M3 and not even close to a 996. Does that make you feel raw? Hey buddy, you want more RAW. Go and drive your car at the track and see a nice 996 rear end or a 996 giving you the HIGHBEAM as to move it over. Then I bet you really feel raw. If, you are so into FEEL then I would stronly recommend that you trade in that 993 for a 73. So, please dont give me or anyone else here a lecture about how 993 is this and that because most of us had one. Thanks for telling me what I am missing.

996 Operator, I hate to get involved in unhappy discussions, but I have to chime in here. I have a 993. I have driven the 996, and I prefer the 993. In my opinion, which is what matters to me, I prefer the looks (in and out) and feel of the 993. To me, the 993 strikes an ideal balance between tactility and refinement. The 996 is biased too far toward the refinement side for my liking. As far as the "get a go kart" comment, it's a bit of a challenge to drive a kart on the street, so it's not a valid alternative. I also have yet to see a 996 that matches the 993 build quality, the difference being primarily in interior material quality. Regarding the performance difference between the 993 and the 996 (at least until the '02), on the street there is virtually nothing in it. Look at the old road tests of the cars -- the acceleration figures are nearly identical until the speeds get REALLY high. Car & Driver tested two '95s: one did 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, the other in 4.7, 0-100 in 12.1 for one car and 12.2 for ther other. The 996 does no better on the skidpad or slalom, nor in stopping distances. The 996 is faster on a track largely because it is easier to drive at its limits -- not because its limits are higher. A driver, even a pro, can be closer to or on the ragged edge more of the time in a 996 (this is not a criticism), so he laps faster. If I were racing professionally, I'd race a 996. I fully respect the 996's abilities. Since most of my driving is on the road, however, I'll keep my 993. For me, it comes down largely to this: you can have a lot of fun in a 996, but you have to go much faster in a 996 than a 993 to have a given amount of fun. Let us all respect each other's choices.

Heck, If there was a modern good quality reliable smaller engined 911 out there, Id still have one. They are just so pretty. Its why I preferred a 993 to a boxster. I would definitely consider the new boxster coupe if and when its out. Its not always about performance. Damn, Its just that Porsche want to stick with the affluent clientelle.

Arthur: Yes, I know the dealer potentially could have sold the car right away, although I know for a fact that they were stuck with it for several weeks. I knew going in with the order that the deposit was non-refundable, because I had to sign a document stating such. Nonetheless, in the end, it was still the right decision for me. I truly would not have been as satisfied with the 996 as with the 993. Jim Sloves: I agree with you. Deposits really should be required so as not to mess up dealer allocations. My situation was, I am sure, not the norm. 996operator et all: I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier post. I was indeed not trying to lecture anyone...only giving my honest opinion. Your initial post raised the question of why most 993 owners were turning down the 996 after test drives. By asking such a question, I assumed you had not owned a 993 previously. Again, my apology for offending you and anyone else.

Well I met Ferdinand Porsche shortly before he died, and he told me that the 993 was the last real Porsche. In fact he told me that Porsche were only building the 996 to give the designers something to do because they were getting bored. We also discussed the Cayenne project - this was only being built because he overheard a comment in a supermarket that there wasn't a Porsche you could take shopping. Hence the Cayenne.

Let me look at this: Performancewise 996 is better so I presume its better trackwise and I heard people say 996 are gt cars-great cruisers on the road. You got the best of both worlds with the 996. Where does the 993 fit in? Regards. Mike

By my side i got the choice between a 993 C4S and a 996 C4 . I went for the 996 .I drove both of them several times and for me the 996 is personally the best choice by all the points of view. And about the famous Porsche enthusiasts..just give me a break...(f.ex) My neighboor had a 993 a few months ago then he said at the time that there's nothing like the 993.. (he considered him self as a Porsche enthusiast), now he has a 996 dark grey targa...! We are in the same family so why shoot each other??!

arguments regarding current great models vs past great models have always kept porsche enthusiats occupied and happy. i was an active member of my local porsche club in the mid to late 70's. members were still arguing back then that the 356's were the only "real" porsches and all 911's were poseurs! now its 993 vs 996! to me this is the bottom line: you like what you are used to and all of these cars have many attractive features. for this reason porsches of every age evoke fierce loyalty. this is a testament to the design and build quality of most porshes thru the years. to me the major benefit of a newer porsche is that maintenance and repairs are easier on the newer cars. as cars age they become less practical for daily use because their maintenance and repair requirements increase--this will also happen inevitably to the 993's as it did to the 356's. regarding build quality i am encouraged that the 2002's are clearly more carefully finished, especially in the interiors, than the 1999 models. the c4s models with their standard full leather interiors are paticularly impressive in this regard. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I have to chime in here. I always wanted to buy a brand new 911 I waited until I finished my residency/fellowship training and bought a home. I loved the 993, but when I was "ready" Porsche simply didn't make them anymore ( actually they couldn't and keep up with emmission standards or side impact crash tests- similar problem that forced GMs hand to go ahead and build the C5 Corvette- that turned out pretty well too), so I ordered a new 996 built to my specs. I would do it again in a flash. The 993 is a great car but the newest 911 is a great car too! I get really tired of hearing stuff like the 911 has "lost its soul" or it sounds like a sewing machine. It is a little soft with the std suspension and , yes it's pretty quiet too. But,these are easily fixed... I added RoW M030 and a sport exhaust( I use Ruf, but there are many good choices). Now the car drives sounds and feels as viceral as any 911. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

One interesting point that these sorts of discussions throws up: A lot of our opinions are made on the basis of a single test drive, or perhaps two or three test drives in the same demonstrator. (In fact a lot of people end up buying new cars without even test driving them, because of waiting lists etc) The thought occurred to me that it would be very easy to get put off by a test drive on a car that had incorrect tyre pressures, or was lacking in power for some reason, or there could be something a little out of whack with the gearchange - unless you drove cars like that every day you wouldn't know, and it could put you off a particular model (or a whole make of car) for ever. Another example of this would be things like sports exhausts and aftermarket suspension kits, shocks, springs etc etc. You could completely transform a car's personality with these things - but unless you were lucky enough to know someone with those modifications, how would you ever know what you could achieve?? I guess the best you can get is to have a good relationship with someone that sells a wide range of cars, and test drive a lot of them... although this still wouldn't tell you what was available with aftermarket products....

As I recently posted my impressions of a test-drive of a 2002 996 let me post here some of the compliments I gave the 996 1) "The tiptronic on the 996 is a definite improvement as it has 5 gears versus 4 for the 993." 2) "There is no lugging of the engine when starting in second like there is on the 993." 3) "Plus it has an extra 40 hp over my current car." 4) "The interior was a definite improvement in luxury." I also stated that "Maybe the 996 would grow on me in time..." Gee, really sounds like I'm FLAMING the 996 now doesn't it? I stand by my PERSONAL opinion that "There wasn't that raw feel, the feeling throughout your body as the engine revs, or that instantenous feedback from the steering wheel that the 993 has.". If you can't take a post that outlines a personal opinion on the pros and cons of two generations of the 911 then maybe you shouldn't be on this board. A couple of months ago there was a big flame war over Porsche versus Corvette and why buy a Porsche when you can get better performance out of a Corvette. It didn't **** me off. I took all the useful opinions, ignored the useless ranting posts, agreed that a Corvette had more power and decided I still loved my car for a variety of reasons.

Hello all, greg1234 says: One interesting point that these sorts of discussions throws up: A lot of our opinions are made on the basis of a single test drive, or perhaps two or three test drives in the same demonstrator. (In fact a lot of people end up buying new cars without even test driving them, because of waiting lists etc) I agree wholeheartedly.... Just my .02 cents: I am a Porsche salesman at the local dealership. I have driven countless 996's and lots of 993's. I do honestly believe that opinions of these two cars are based upon what car you are comming from. If you had a 914 for 12 years, then you probabbly want a 993. If you are comming from a Mercedes or say a 928, like me, then the 996 makes you feel at home. Like Porsche AG, the company, says...Evoloution...and....Everything we know so far...Both are great cars. But the good thing is we have a choice. I like what I like, you like what you like. Lets like all Porsches and concentrate our dislike on the Corvette.

Funny you say that John. I have a Mercedes and and the reason I chose the 993 is because it so different. When I tested the boxster, boxster s and 996, I felt that the ride and comfort were just like the Merc but with an incredible amount of power. In my case, the power was a lower priority Regards

John, Alex & Greg have hit on something we should all strive for (no, not throwing rocks at Vettes...). It is great to hold & express strongly held opinions. It is good manners to express them as such... beliefs, personal analysis... not as immutable facts. It is questionable to jump from personal knowledge (or belief) to normative judgement. We don't all have the same experiences or values, and those have at least as great an influence on our perceptions & conclusions as the "facts" do. Stay away from "I believe x, therefore x is a fact, and everyone must also believe x.". Or, "I believe x, therefore you are stupid (or evil) if you don't also believe x." Let's not forget the lessons in Animal Farm. Among the worst thread dialog I read runs along these lines, "The reason you are wrong is because I am right". Also, any ad hominum attacks reflect only on the character of the person making them, "you are so dim-witted of course you can't understand the brilliance within my previous post". So, I don't think singing kumbaiya together is the goal here, but thoughtful, civil expression allows us to agree & disagree, even very strongly, while yet "learning & living" another day.

Why is the latest 911 Turbo, GT2 and now defunct GT3 running gear based on the older 993/964 crankcase and gearbox, not the latest 996 hardware? It's because the quality of the basic 996 engine and transmission has been reduced in favor of cost and profit and can't support performance increases. When Porsche needs real hardware they go back to the past. That's what keeps us older Porsche freaks alive and against the new stuff.

One thing needs to be corrected, in the interest of accuracy. DJ 996 stated that the 993 was unable to meet the latest side-impact standards. I am fairly certain that this is untrue -- the 993 can meet the current side impact standards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the last change to side impact standards came about for the '97 model year -- nothing has changed (yet) since then. ALL 993s meet the '97 standards, while the 964s do not. Several cars were unable to be brought up to the '97 rules, including the C4 Corvette and the 300ZX.

Todd, I heard about the "old" style door being unable to pass side impact standards without major changes three years ago when I bought my 996, granted the info was from the dealer so take it for what its worth. Sounds plausable to me but I could be wrong. For the record I like the looks and style of the 993 door, as well as the rest of the car, but I like my 996 better. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Doug

996operator - this certainly is an age-old discussion within the Porsche family: "Porsche blew it when they made the ____ (insert car name here), the ____ (insert favorite Porsche model here) is the best ever made....". I "upgraded" from an 87 Carrera to a 993 C4 Cab about a year ago and immediately missed the 87, for almost all the same reasons that people here are saying they like the 993 better than the 996. The 87 felt quicker (it was not), had a lot more feedback, was harder to drive thus requiring more driver attention and interaction, and sounded much better to me than the 993. I posted a query on the 993 board at that time to this effect and asked if there was anyway to get the old Carrera feeling back. Guess what happened? I got skewered. I actually thought it funny at the time how all the 993 fanatics would post about the "raw" 993 feeling. I figured either these people never drove an 80s or earlier 911 or had just forgotten. Not too many months later, I bought a second 911, an 86 Turbo, in an attempt to recapture that old feeling while still enjoying the more modern and luxurious 993. The 993 is a great car, but the 80s Turbo is, for me, the essence of the 911 series (it is as close to driving a go kart on the street that I have experienced). So when people ask me to compare the 2 (believe it or not N/A 993 vs. older 911 Turbo is a fairly frequent topic), I say they are two entirely different cars - the 993 is superior in every way, but the 930 makes me smile every time I drive it. I suspect the 993 die-hards feel the same about their choice of the 993 over the 996, but they don't want to admit to the technical superiority of the 996 quite yet (it is getting hard though, particularly with the 2003 models). Sorry for the long post -

ZCAT3/Bill, I hear you loud and clear and that is my pt. I love all porsches from the classics to the newest one. Execpt, i might need to hold on one sec regarding the SUV. So, yes it is part of the evolution of porsche. They are going to make a better car but like you said not the best feeling for some. It is like golf, I play with old set of blades but I know the cavity back irons are better and easier and that goes ten times the factor regarding the new drivers and *****. But, i dont go around tell folks who own them they are missing this and that. For one, if the pros drivers are driving the 996's on track then YES 996 is a better car. Faster and safer. Finally, my pt about the go cart is like driving an old 911 pre 964. So, if the 993 guys want to talk about RAW then they should get a old turbo like yourself and your posting isnt long. Just thoughtful!

My sentiments exactly. My friend has a '79 930 turbo and that's as raw as you can get or any other earlier models compared to the 993. It's "all or none" experience meaning if you drive it well it's largely rewarding. I do admit that on looks alone the 993 definitely stands out in the crowd but that doesn't win races- performance does. I just get roused up when a few of the people on the 993 board start dissing everyone's other Porsches. Regards. Mike

DJ, I believe that the current side-impact standard is the one implemented for the '97 model year, and I clearly recall Porsche stating at the 993's introduction that all 993s met that standard even thought it wasn't 1997 yet. No changes were made to the door during the 993s model run. However, as strong and safe as the 993 is, I'm sure the 996 is even safer. It's clear that many of us can discuss the good and bad points of our favorites and others' favorites without insulting anyone -- this is how it should be. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with people on the 993 board discussing what they don't like (or do like) about the 996 -- everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Critiques are legitimate, but it shouldn't get nasty or insulting. By the way, I absolutely agree that the 993 is far more refined than the earlier cars (especially pre-964), for better AND for worse. I greatly enjoy my 911SC's rawness -- when I drive the 993 after the SC, I find myself going much faster, but not necessarily having any more fun. Of course, sometimes I am having more fun.

A 993/996 debate? What a great thread! This slippery slope argument goes all the way back to at least the '71-'73 2.4L 911's, and the arguments almost always take the same format: Older 911 Owner: "I prefer the more visceral and communicative feel of my older 911. Granted, your newer 911 is more comfortable and luxurious and objectively a better performing car." Newer 911 Owner: "Yes, your older 911 may feel and sound better, but I'm faster on the track, and my car is more luxurious and has more amenities." This same debate seems to apply to each and every new generation of 911's. I've seen threads where owners of 911 SC's (1978-1983) much prefer their car to a 993 despite the acknowledged huge performance gap. I can only imagine the future debates between 996 owners and the next generation 911... Drew 92 C2

I’d like to add my $.02 to this thread. I won’t even try to address the issue of the best 911 other than to say that when I owned an ’84 Carrera, I thought it was the best and now that I own a ’99 996 C2 I think it makes all the 911's that came before look dated. Still, that’s my purely subjective opinion of the moment. Buying a car like a 911 is a very personal choice .... the car has to “reach” you in some way since you can’t really justify the expense rationally .... and there’s no way I will try to argue my subjective choice is better than yours. I will argue, though, that you can make the 996 just as “visceral” as the 993 or any other 911 if you want. My 6sp C2 coupe is mild by some standards, but with the ROW M030 suspension, RUF exhaust, 18” Kinesis wheels and 225-285 Bridgestone S03’s, and about 150 pounds of weight reduction from using GT3 seats, removing rear seats, GT3 front console delete, etc. the car feels as nimble, responsive and yes, visceral, as my lowered, sport suspension ‘84 Carrera did. And that’s just the subjective feel. Objectively, it completely blows the old car away from a performance standpoint. The only thing missing is the major league steering kickback of the ‘84, but I can’t really say that’s a bad thing. So, to echo the comments of others, let’s not take pot shots at each other and save it for the Corvettes. As Porsche owners we should be able to appreciate the variety of great cars Porsche has made available to us over the years, and the personal choices our fellow owners have made. Mike

I wonder if the real difference is in how many miles a year people will drive their 996's in comparison to 911's, 964's or 993's. I've had an 80 SC Targa, 90C2 Cab tip, 91 C4 manual, and now have a 99 Boxter tip and an 02 996 ttX50. There is no question that 996's are much more conducive to longer trips, daily commuting, and other regular use. The longer service interval is also a key point. I drove all of my cars daily, including snow. The 90C2 Cab and Boxter are poor in bad conditions. All of the 911, 964 and 993 wipers are atrocious in bad weather. My prediction is that regardless of all of the comments regarding preference to 993 or 996, the 996's will be driven a lot more. AS

i once owned a 1979 911sc guards red with black full leather interior. i loved it! now i own a lapis blue 2002 c4s. it's even better! i feel fortunate to have been able to own both of these great cars-- better than the 4 mercedes,3bmw's,2lexus,and 1saab i owned in the interim. i just wish i'd come back earlier. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> ignacio

[quote] So, to echo the comments of others, let’s not take pot shots at each other and save it for the Corvettes. <hr></blockquote> LOL !!! Does anyone remember the thread several months ago on the Viper vs. Porsche? 90+ posts of heated "debate" The 993/996 "discussion" will continue, as others here have pointed out, in much the same way it has in the past over other models (remember those front-engine zaks). I would really love a 928S4 to join my 993 and am envios of someone who had recently posted a shot of his two beauties: G.Red 928&993!!! Sadly, I can't afford both, but am I any less of an enthusiast for favoring one model over another...or for that matter, poo-pooing another model? OTHO, GAG on the Cayenne Edward

[quote]Originally posted by Edward: <strong> LOL !!! Does anyone remember the thread several months ago on the Viper vs. Porsche? 90+ posts of heated "debate" The 993/996 "discussion" will continue, as others here have pointed out, in much the same way it has in the past over other models (remember those front-engine zaks). I would really love a 928S4 to join my 993 and am envios of someone who had recently posted a shot of his two beauties: G.Red 928&993!!! Sadly, I can't afford both, but am I any less of an enthusiast for favoring one model over another...or for that matter, poo-pooing another model? OTHO, GAG on the Cayenne Edward</strong><hr></blockquote> Edward, My comment about saving the criticism for the Corvettes was meant to be tongue in cheek, but I get your point. And I agree with you that we all have "favorites", (I certainly have mine), and that having a preference doesn't make one less of an enthusiast. It's just that there's a not-so-subtle difference between someone saying they prefer a 993 over a 996 and someone else saying that a 996 isn't a real Porsche for whatever reason (not air-cooled, too refined, etc. etc.) That's just a non-starter for me. Mike <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Wow...Flames everywhere!!! 996 operator you really have to calm down and accept that Porsches are Porsches and this mine is better than yours is...sorry Pathetic!!!Respecting other peoples opinion is part of the charm of being an enthousiast. The FACT is that the 993 is a very different animal than the 996. Just the fact that it is the LAST aircooled Porsche makes it special and dear to hold on for many of us. When I first drove my friends 996 99 cab I thought wow this car is so easy to drive much like my 968. By the way I'm faster with my 968 on the track than with my 993! Does that make the 968 a better car? Is performance the ultimate judge of a car??? I will not claim here that the 993 is a better car. The reason why I love it so much is because of all it represents and the way it makes me feel. I love the pedals sticking out of the floor, I love the linear braking,the hard clutch. I love the way the instrument cluster is laid out, the way my carbon interior looks, the way the flat 6 smells when its warm, all the quirks and curves of my 993. Yes to me the 993 is the Ultimate exression in automotion (well the 965 3.6 ,I'll take one in black please,comes extremely close) not because of performance but because it steers my soul when I drive it. I will not be afraid to express this when someone asks me on the 993 forum which 911 to choose!!That does not mean I'm flaming 996's!!! Now if ever a 996 stirs my soul she will be my new musse. Till then you can keep your 996 and I will keep my 993 thank you very much. But please no flames...just enjoy your Porsche and be thankfull that you have a bunch of very knowledgable and friendly enthousiasts on this board to enchance your driving experience. Porsche ...There is NO substitute <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

To show how this flaming is carried to ridiculous extremes, even within the 993 board, there are heated arguments between wide body owners (993 C4S,993C2S) versus thin body owners (993 C2, 993 C4), and varioram vs non-varioram cars. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Since everyone is in on this discussion, I tought maybe I'd jump in and add a couple of cents. Maybe you guys would like to hear form a person who owns both of these fine automobiles. I have a 1997 993 Carrera Cabrio and a 2000 996 Carrera 4. Both are modified, but the 993 a lot more than the 996. See pics below. 993 pic <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Dsc00082.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Dsc00082.jpg</a> 996 pic <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Dsc00027.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Dsc00027.jpg</a> LOOKS: I love the look of the 993. No car on earth beats the curves and the lines of it. The 996 on the other hand is very sleek and streamline. It resembled the Boxster too much so I bought an aftermarket GT3 areokit for it. It made it look so much better. I hated the thought of the 911 "Flagship" sharing the looks of lower model Porsche. The 996 is much more aerodynamic then the 993... but in the end I'd opt for a 993... I'd take a areokitted 996 over a stock looking 993, but a I'd take a widebodied or areokitted 993 over a 996 areokitted or not anyday. (this is just based solely on looks) Performance: No doubt about it! The 996 is faster, handles better and brakes faster. New technology right? The 996 should thank the 993... it wouldn't have gotten here if it wasn't for it. Logically the 996 is faster than the 993 due to areodynamics. I had to modify my 993 because the 996 was a little quicker. My 993 is currently 365 HP and my 996 around 330. The 996 only felt quicker during very high speeds, maybe because it's so refined. It's very quiet and comfortable. The 993 feels everybit as quick, but road response through the steering wheel in the 993 is much better. For trips to the mall and going places to park for long periods of time I drive the 996. For quick spirited drives and short parking periods I drive the 993. When they were both stock I Found the 993 to get A LOT more stares than my 996. The 996 is a everyday car and the 993 a weekend car. THe 996 is stealthy in my opinion and the 993 very WOW out there, look at my J Lo Curves. I like my 993 because when I drive it I feel like a race car driver, but in a race I know my 996 would beat it. In conclusion: STOCK VS STOCK "looks"- I'd take the 993, the 996 looks too much like my girlfriend's Boxster S STOCK vs STOCK "performance"- The 996 takes it. Stock vs Stock "feel"- I'd have to say my 993, the 996 feels to refined like my S500 Merc, but ofcourse MUCH MUCH faster. I love both my cars to death, I try to buy new things for them whenever I can get a chance (even my girlfriends Boxster)! If I had to sell one I'd reluctantly say that I'd sell the 996. (I'd get more money hahaha). Both cars are 911s. They always come out newer and more improved. Though the first batch of 996s had to have a few bugs worked out so did the first 993s. We have soooo much in common... can't we all just get along?

[quote]Originally posted by 996operator: <strong> So, let me see if any 993 guys out there would take on a stock 996 at the track. </strong><hr></blockquote> I would and I have. It usually is a toss up, depends more on the driver. I have had my a$# handed to me by some cars and done the reverse with others. Greg

Greg, But isnt it true if you were to drive a 996 and a 993 on a race or a track event. Dont you think, you will be driving the 996 faster. I think you are mistaking your ability to drive vs what the car offers. So, if you dont think that a 993 is faster then hey what can we say. You are on your own because you know and I know and everyone else in here knows that isnt the case. I agree one's ability is the biggest factor but everything being equal. 993 doesnt have a shot against a 996. Also, if you read my post more carefully. STOCK VS STOCK

There is no doubt the 996 is easier to drive faster - it's newer technology. However, there is also no doubt that it's more cheaply made - you cannot deny that it's more plasticky. This is because Porsche sought to significantly reduce its production costs w/ the 996. No knock on them; they want profits. It's also uglier. The rim options are horrendous. Clearly designed w/ my grandpa in mind.

996operator - why are you so hung up on the issue of relative speed of 993 vs 996 on the track? Both cars offer so much more than just raw performance. There is so much more to the equation. If it really is just pure performance that you're obsessed with, why not go get a Japanese car (Evo, Supra, Impreza etc) and tune it up to 1000bhp? I can't help thinking that you're missing the point somewhere along the line...

Look at that 996. Man, is it ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. It is as ugly as.... uh.... uh.....uhhh... anyway, it's ugly. And look at those rims!! Man, are they ugly. Ugly, ugly, ugly. They are so ugly, that.....uh.....that.....uhhh.... my grandfather would have chosen them. Anyway, your mother wears combat boots!!! So, there!

Palting, First thing is first! She is a fine fine fine ride . Second, just let them be. Secondly, I still dont get these guys at the 993(not all of you great guys but some) <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> . I am sure you love your ride as I do mine. So just chill out. Finally, what do you mean ugly wheels. All ic is 993 with turbo rims and not that 17 inch rims which dont even fill out the wheel arch.

I couldn't resist, bloke. Anyway, last and only post on the matter.

Greg, It is pretty clear to me that you should have said yes the 996 is faster/quicker but you love the feel better on your 993. Instead, you comment states and makes it appear that a 993 is just as quick as 996. But, I think we cover this already so no need to beat a dead horse. Mabye, you should ask yourself why you and I bought a porsche to start but it appears we have different answers. I like performance and you like feel. So, we choose to differ. NO BIGGIE! As for you comment regarding me missing the pt. Now really why dont you sit back and reflect on that comment for awhile. Best Regards

Wow - this topic could go on forever (so I feel the need to chime in again). I personally did not like the 996 from a styling perspective when it first arrived. The 996TT started to change my mind and the new 996 C4S is another significant step in the right direction (I have not seen one in person yet, but the pictures sure look nice). If Porsche would just figure out a way to return to the round headlights, they would be all the way there (IMHO). As for driving - I have never driven a 996, but I am sure they are faster and easier to drive than the 993 (making them superior in the general performance category). As an aside, I will be going to Willow Springs at the end of the month and will likely leave my 993TT at home. I will be driving my modified 930 instead. So if any of you 996 drivers are stuck behind a 930 lugging it through the curves, that is me trying to master one of the hardest Porsches to drive (on the straights, though, I should win - last time my wife even pulled 996TTs in the straights). Why take this car? Because I figure if I can get decent in the 930, the other cars will be a cakewalk. Plus, even when I am going slow by modern standards, I still feel like I am going fast.

Palting, the 4s is nice. I will give you that. But you have to acknowledge that it is Porsche's blatant attempt to make the 996 look like the previous 911's (sportier rims, red lens all the way across the tail end, flared curvy look, etc.). If you look at the basic 996, it's nothing like the 4s. The fact you picked the 4s to make your point is probative of the fact you secretly like the earlier 911's more.

I like my 996. I like your 993. No, you cant have my Budwiser.

John M. I think we better start with some shots. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> Then we can all just have a nice cold one <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Virtual shots?? Im IN!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

And a beautiful woman on each arm then driving off in the sunrise going home and get pistol whipped by my wife : ). Life is good !!! Regards. Mike

996operator - I knew you'd agree with me in the end...

Hi, in the last 2 years i had a 87 Targa, 94 964 Speedster, 95 993 Cab, 96 993 C4S and a 2001 996 C4 Cab. I loved all of them. And now i have them all in one. In a 2001 911 Turbo. Guys, be proud to own a porsche and enjoy it. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> cu styx

I raced at Road Atlanta this weekend and my class (c stock) had two 996's, three 993's and three RS Americas. Well two of the RS Americas didn't make it to the race due to incidents. A 993 qualified first, then a RSA, then the two 996's, then the next two 993s (one of them being myself). Guess how we finished? The top 993 stayed #1, I was second, and the other 993 was right behind me. Then the RSA and the 996's. Whether it was a difference in the driver or the equipment I don't know but the faster guys in our class seem to stay with the air cooled cars. I know a guy that used to race a 996 and he got tired of DNF'ing every other race, it was a pretty fast car, but I bet his 993 will be faster when it gets sorted. What was odd is that I could out drag one of the 996's down the long straight and stay right on the other ones tail. Is there normally a big variance in horsepower between 996's. My car's aerodynamics are shaped like a brick compared to the 996. I will also point out that the fastest stock car out there was a prepared B class 996, he was several seconds in front of the top guy in my class. Greg

Ever since the service manager at the Porsche store told me the 996 is faster at the track, I have wanted a 996 (and really even before that). Newer is almost always better. I have a 993 but hope to someday be fortunate enough to own a 996 (maybe not at the expense of the 993).