Thinking About Trading in M5 for 996: Need advice

Hi Guys, I'm thinking about trading in my M5 for a 996...Loved the M5 but since I'm still single, wouldnt have the need for the space so I might go with the 996. I am also planning to take the used car route and I have some *dumb* questions. 1: Would you guys STRONGLY recommend the C4 over the C2? Why? Does it provide much more driving experience/performance? 2: How does the paint of the Millenium edition look? I have only seen it on Porsche's website and if anyone has real pictures of it under different lighting, that will be helpful. 3: I have the option of getting a basic '02 C2 or a loaded pre-'02 996(either the C4/C2) for the same price. Which way would you guys recommend me to go? Thank You so much for you help.... Cheers, Sugi

I went from a CLK 430 to a 2001 C4. The size of the interior was a bit of a shock. I'm 6'0 220, so I'm not huge, but I'm not small either. It took a good week to achieve the proper seat height/tilt and steering column adjustments to be really comfortable. Even with the seat all the way back, my right leg still hits the center console on the dash. Some have removed it to add more room. That said, this car is amazing. It is so hard to turn loose - it just sticks. I live in Seattle and have had the car out in dry, light and heavy rain, and light snow, and it is just unlike anything I have ever had. I will never own a C2 now that I have a C4. I also had a BMW 330 XI all wheel drive car, and even though it was sporty, it can't even be mentioned in the same breath as the Porsche. My best advise is to truly drive the car on a test drive and ensure that you are comfortable in it. Good Luck.

I'm sure the newer ones are better, but in my old 911 I could swing the back out quite easily. Id say if you can, go for the C4. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Hi... I was thinking about a C4, however I have friends who told me that C2 is more fun --&gt; u can feel more rear-end toss to it. So that is why I'm pretty confused as to which way to go. Regards, Sugi

Absent suspension changes (and/or alignment modifications), the rear end of a modern day 911 (996) is the last thing to go. These cars are setup for understeer as the primary tendancy stock. If you don't live somewhere that rains and/or snows quite a bit, why would you want the extra weight of the C4? As for 02 or 99-01, I'd probably get the 02 (though you can save $10k, new 01 if you can find it, to $20k on a used 99-01 vs. a new 02). The 02 has more power and that power comes on 1k earlier than it does in 99-01s. Of course, consistent with the silly automotive trend, it also carries an extra 60+ lbs. As heavy as it is, I'd probably get the C4S if I could stand having a coupe. This gets you a better suspension and brakes along with a wider track. Guess it all depends on how you plan to use the car and where you live. Oh yeah, and Porsche's PSM (Porsche Stability Management) keeps a C2 planted just fine in less than ideal conditions (ie: water, gravel, etc). This is night and day better than that DSC crap BMW has that all but takes the car over and shuts it down when it comes on. PSM is VERY unobtrusive and intervenes "just enough" to keep things from getting out of control. In fact, many times, you wouldn't even know it came on if not for the flashing light. Better still, it learns the driver and can actually become even less obtrusive as it will come on later. All C4's come standard with PSM but it is an option on the C2's.

Ben: Are you saying that the '02 is 60 lbs heavier than pre '02? Since I live in CA, a C2 with PSM is more than enough right? the 4wd is more useful in snowing/raining conditions? Sugi

Yep, the 02 is like 65 lbs heavier than the 99-01. And no, I can't imagine needing the AWD here in CA.

I do prefer 2wd over 4wd simply because it's more fun especially if you plan to track and all. On terms of which MY(99-01/02) to get like they say" Get the newest car you can afford" so if a 02 is within your reach I go for that. It's got more power then previous models but like anything people like to mod their cars and sooner or later you want to mod yours. I have a '99 model with just traction control and limited slip and I have yet to spin my car out on the track so with PSM should be a better safety net. I heard it's not too invasive. I'm still enjoying my car and hope you enjoy as well. Regards. Mike

By the way the M5 is a great car and I wouldn't hesitate to get one but my wife doesn't drive a manual. Hopefully they can incorporate a SMG like they did for the M3. Regards. Mike

Got an M5, and was going to get another one (had it on order and canceled it...long story)when I put in the order for the 02 C2. Too long a wait for the C4. I'll have to let you know how the adjustment to the smaller car works out! I'm keeping the M5 (paid for) so it'll be easier to compare. The major point I have been able to glean so far is: The BMW is a "road car" that is optimized for the track, and the Porsche is "track car" that is optimized for the road! Let the fun begin!

I would try to hold out for a 2000 or newer. The 2000 and up cars have a nicer interior. Skip the C4, they understeer worse than the C2's, which are bad enough. Find one with PSM if you can. The 2000 millenium edition is a really cool color. I like that car, except the chrome wheels. Good Luck!

Verrrrrrrry happy with my purchase. The C2 an C4S feel very different. I would drive them before you buy. I didn't try the C4 but imagine it feels different enough than the C2.

I have a C2 without PSM and a TT with it. Unless you live in an area with bad weather and drive year around, I would get the C2. I like a car with no aids, it's more fun imo. The new 996's have so much grip, the days of the car coming around on you, on the street, are all but gone unless you drive way fast. I live in Atlanta where the only bad weather we have is rain and love my C2. No problems driving it every day... Personally I would get a 02 vs. a loaded 01 or earlier. The 02's have many upgrades over the older cars and is a wonderful car. I have also seen some good deals on used 02s already... Good luck. Roy

The M5 is a great sports sedan and an absolute torque monster. You will notice that you do not have as much torque or immediate power on demand in the 911 (c2 or c4) as in the m5. On the other hand, the 911 is (IMO) a much more responsive/feel the road drive. I drove the m5 again last week - (my friend and I swapped cars at the train station for our 8 mile winding country road drive home). I followed my friend (who clearly must have had a smile on his face driving my c4) to his house - then switched back to my car for the ride home. While I had fun driving the M5 - I was thinking how lucky I was all the way home! If you are looking for a totally fun car - with room for some small kids - go for the 911. If you are looking for the benefits of a sedan (room) but with a very spirited drive, go with the M5. C4 v. C2 is a personal decision - The c4 is better inclement whether and great on windy roads. On dry pavement, the c2 is a more "true" ride. I went c4 as added insurance against the rain and to give me flexibility to drive in the winter here in the northeast (with 17" rims and snows). I use 18's the rest of the year.

Swing, If you're in Sunnyvale, CA then the best argument for a C4 is that you can take it to the mountains in the winter. You won't be doing that with a 2wd carrera with chain restrictions and all. Might swing things if this is going to be your only car. cheers, sean

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I don't think that is a Millennium....wrong wheels, color, no rear wiper and gray interior. The wheels on a Millennium are not chrome but are polished LT 18" Turbo Wheels. See the following: <a href="http://www.986host.com/gallery/BerkleyII" target="_blank">www.986host.com/gallery/BerkleyII</a> That is #223

If money is not your first concern, MY02 996 should be your first choice, & if you will not see snow with your 996, C2 should be the ultimate car. PSM is good only if you want the extra margin of safety. My C2 only got Bi-Xenon, 18" Turbo look wheels w/P ZERO Rosso with NO PSM, it handles really well both on the road and on the track. Although a better suspension upgrade will be necessary if you do alot of track events or cruising at 3 digit speed most of the time, very few cars on the road today can compare the sheer drivability of the new 02 996 C2. C2 is somehow understeer a little, but when you get to a higher cornering speed, the car actually handles pretty neutral. C4 or C4S is way more understeer than C2 (the nature of 4WD). Unless you need all wheel traction for winter time, otherwise, nothing compare to a true rear engine rear wheel drive configuration. Remember, the true race car only drives in 2 REAR wheels. Cheers! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Berkley, Very Interesting How many Millenium has been builded? It's AWD or RWD? The wheels on a Millennium are not chrome but are polished LT 18" Turbo Wheels. .. in fact yours are the same as the Turbo look 1 Alu poli? Swing : Drive both of them hard! outside and inside of the city (you will be on track just a few times maybe!) it depends your personal real purpose of the car. Personaly, I prefer a C4 because the security feeling. !I like to drive hard and the C4 with PSM for me it's great...I'm not Michael Schumaher!!!

Ah, don't sell yourself short. why just the other day someone asked me "Is that Michael Schumacher?!" I replied "Nope, it's biltstein 996 C4."

Ah, don't sell yourself short. why just the other day someone asked me "Is that Michael Schumacher?!" I replied "Nope, it's biltstein 996 C4." !!Hehe! If i only have the cold blood as he has..! once in a while i see him , he lives about 20 mn from home. in a place name: Vufflens le Chateau.. <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> Normally he drives a 996 TT.. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> (just between the other Ferraris..) Jim could you borrow me your C4S, i 'll do some track the 20 april in Dijon France...

All you ever wanted to know: <a href="http://www.us.porsche.com/english/news/modelinformation/millennium/" target="_blank">www.us.porsche.com/english/news/modelinformation/millennium/</a> 911 were built and several hundred plus came to the USA.....polished 18" LT Alloy-Turbo Look Wheels Mine, #223, was a 12/99 car

Thanks Berkley. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

You don't have to be Michael Schumacher to drive a race/sport car. The 996 is very well designed & well built for the majority of the drivers in the world. C4 does give you more confidence & secure feeling. However, it loses the handling dynamics of a RWD car, especially a RR (rear engine, rear wheel drive). If you can manage your M5, for sure you can manage the 996 C2, not because of the C2 is an easier to drive car, BUT, it is a much better handling car and the rear end of the car sticks to the pavement better than any BMW period. Most new 911 owner will not get use to the weight transition when driving the 996 is when you turn and exit from a corner, the front end of the car lift-up like a FROG while the back end of the car has a trendency to slide to the outside of the corner. I do not get use to it when I first pick up my 996. It is my first RR car. I have driven FR, FF, 4WD, MR cars before, nothing like the 996/911. Even the Boxster/Boxster S(My brother has an S), the 986 handles just like anyother MR in terms of the weight transition when cornering. But when you get used to the 996 RR configuration (very quickly, may be in a couple of weeks) you will love this configuration and knows how good the car handles and how secure (don't get me wrong - 4WD feels more secure, but the C2 is already better than 99% of the cars out there!) the 996 is, and you can actually power out from the corners. The 996 is the only car which bring smiles to my face everytime when i drive it. We are no Michael Schumacher, but 996 street car is not designed based on the driving skills of M.Schumacher either! Again, don't get me wrong, 4WD is very secure, BUT it does not give you the handling dynamics of a RR 996! Cheers <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Hi Guys, thanks so much for your replies. I actually went to a Porsche dealer this past weekend and saw a used Millenium 911. I must say it is a very special car with nice paint and AWESOME AWESOME interior...the asking price for that is pretty decent too ...76k so I might actually think about that. Also, I'm planning to schedule a test drive for a '02 911 vs. pre-'02 911 to get a feel of the difference etc. but since there are so limited 911s in the dealer's lot nowadays, I might have to do some searching. Lastly, does anyone know how much discounts are the dealers givoing on average on a new '02 911. The dealer I went to said that he will give me a coutesy discount but did not go into details as to how much so I'm trying to guage what is a far amount Once again, thanks so much for all of you guys help. Cheers, Sugi

Swing : you'll get the Millenium model?!!!great! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> ps : Lawrence, firstable i'm agree with you! there's maybe a missunderstood, The C4 and C2 are differents cars, both of them you get un amazing but different feeling. With the weather and the geography that we have in Switzerland I feel more confortable "personally" in a C4. Even if there's a lot of C2!. just my 0.145 SFR!!

BilStein, I am almost sold on the Millenium 911 BUT the only thing that is keeping me back is that it is a TIPTRONIC <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" /> Hmm...I heard from some reviews that the TIP on Porsche is better than the F1 transmission on the Ferrari but I'm skeptical about getting TIP for a sports car What do you guys think? Sugi

Swing Look on Ebay....my Millennium is listed....it is a tiptronic, which I happen to like very much....It is my 7th 911 over 25 years, also had a '01 Boxster S until Xmas...... You can buy it via Ebay for $67,795 today...current bid is over $65,000....enclosed shipping is about $1,500 to the left coast through Intercity....that is who PCNA suggests.... Check my website: <a href="http://www.986host.com/gallery/BerkleyII" target="_blank">www.986host.com/gallery/BerkleyII</a>

I think it's the opposite. The Ferrari F1 is supposedly much better than the Porsche Tip. Not to say the Tip is bad. I drove an '02 996 TT with the Tip and it wasn't too bad at all. In fact, it's pretty hard to manually shift quick enough to keep up with the TT.

To Bilstein 996C4: As i have mentioned, if & Only IF your car will not see snow, get the C2! I live in Los Angeles and I never see snow with my C2 plus I have other cars in my household which I can use for ski trip. Both C4 & C2 are very nice sports cars, depending where you live & how you are gonna use the car for, it is your call to get a 4 or 2. Anyway, we both got one of the best cars in the world! To everyone: the Ferrari F1, BMW SMG, Toyota's version of SMG (not sure what it calls! available on the MR-S) suppose to be a much better transmission compare to the Porsche TIP. These auto-manual trans are based on a REAL manual gear box and use the auto clutch (in simple terms) to shift for you. These auto-manual can even blimps the throttle to rev match it for you when you downshift. It is the best alternative to the manual gearbox. The multitronic/CVT from Audi or other OEM are good but they are basically an automatic gear box. I think Porsche has to work hard to keep up with the other manufacturers, at least get a 6 or 7 speed TIP (au auto-manual like the SMG is preferrable indeed!) The new Nissan Skyline (Infiniti G35) has a 8 speed CVT transmission, only 5 speed CVT is offered in the USA :-(