60 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHAaarg!! Wierd behaviour and then Cel !!
Reported or suspected cause
without reading the cell
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
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1
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Reported cause
It is hard to know what the cause is without reading the cell.
Leading evidence: 'without reading the cell' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'without reading the cell' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check problem (differential??)' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
* throttle body was cleaned, and CEL, ABS and PSM never returned
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
It will be installed tomorrow; I will be in Ottawa until Thursday,
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Suspected cause
That was my initial thought and more likely the problem.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I drove very slow to his garage, and he will be checking the new problem (differential??)
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
60 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
2 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
I recall reading an accellerator pedal DIY that solved a "sticky" or sluggish engine rev response.
Here we go- my first Cel.
1 Started the car, and it accelerated,
all by itself
, two quick times,
up to 2500 RPM or so, - never saw that before!! Never heard of it either!
2. Backed off slowly from the garage, as always.
3. Put in first gear and noticed accelerator does not work! press a few times,
no response at all. I noticed idling varying up and down slightly!
4. Because I was already rolling forward in first gear, I stepped on the
accelerator a little harder- it chocked over and over, (as if I was stalling
by letting the clutch go too fast- not the case)
5. Shut down car, and restart- same behaviour!!
6. Drive very slow (still no accelerator) back to garage and shut off engine.
7. Restart engine, and Cel comes on steady. Shut down engine.
I looked around, and all liquids look fine, no leaks.
My evening drive is now cancelled!
Wondering if to take it to Dealer or Indy in the morning.
S#*%*t!!
JD, sorry to hear that.
When was the last time your cleaned your throttle body? It could be your MAF has gone bad or needs cleaning. It is hard to know what the cause is without reading the cell. If you have a good Indy, take it to him.
Thanks for replying Tim.
I hope it is what you are saying; I just never heard of a 996 blipping the throttle
2 times all by itself, right after I let the Key go, and then no accelerator at all !!!
PS I have OEM air intake.
It is possible about the fuse, but I doubt that is the cause. It could be that your fuel pump is kaput. But again, until you get the CEL code read, it is just a stab in the dark. Do you know anyone who has a Durametric code reader?
Maybe in the Canada section... I was avoiding cross-posting.
It is also weird that the Cel did not come on until the 3rd restart,
yet the faulty behaviour was going on.
I believe it is Egas.
There are other things going on to be just the accelerator- unsteady iddling,
2 accelerations when you first start the engine, and Cel.
This sucks.
Sounds like the engine is receiving too much unmetered air and then, what you think is a non-responsive throttle is simply the motor inhaling too much air to rev properly.
Sounds like a major vacuum leak.
I would look all around the intake and throttle body for something loose or not connected at all.
Does the accellerator pedal feel normal, like it still has resistance against your foot? I recall reading an accellerator pedal DIY that solved a "sticky" or sluggish engine rev response.
Tim
The accelerator
pedal
feels 100% normal- just wont change
a thing on the slightly unsteady idling.
If I put it in first gear and let the cluch go slowly, I crawl forward,
if I then step on the accelerator, it will choke, jump forward, and choke again,
on and on.
Hey Red
Yes, but it is odd that last night all was well, no rain, no washing, off a nice run on the highway to
parking it inside the garage, and all was well.. and today was complete no go! s**t!!!
A warning first would have been nice.
At least I am glad I didn't get stuck 500 Km from home,
since I travel to Ottawa to see my 5 year old every week.
I had a problem very similar to this recently. The OBD2 code was an accelerator potentiometer error. We cleared the code with PIWIS, and the problem went away. ...for now
hmmm.... it could be a combination of things, pedal pot, sticky throttle, maf, emissions.... The cel code would give you some clue whats going on.
Let us know how you make out...
That was my initial thought and more likely the problem. The more I thought about it, 2500 RPM would probably be unlikely with a vacuum leak IMO.
To replace that part would be quick if it has failed.
Ah, just thought of something. You can remove the airbox and look at the throttle body butterfly and see if it is opening a little bit while idling.
It should barely crack open. If it is showing a nice gap between the throttle bodies' bore and the butterfly itself, that is the problem.
Everyone should have a cheap code reader in the car. "Just in case" then you can find out the problem and decide if you need the dealer or do an easy fix yourself.Like clean the MAF.
Sooooo, after being on the phone with a mechanic (ex Porsche service manager), I wiggled a few
wires in the engine compartment, and finally the throttle began responding again;
I decided immediately to take the car to his repair shop, and within 1 Km or so of driving,
I got the ABS light on, with message "You've got no ABS" from the on board computer;
within 10 more seconds at 70 Km/h I got another light: PSM and another OBC message.
It looked like a chain reaction of monitor error lights coming on.
Got to the mechanic, and his Durametric
got the error codes:
P1511- Porsche Fault Code 543- Throttle adjuster
P1120- Porsche Fault Code 117- Throttle plate
P1122- Porsche Fault Code 431- Throttle potentiometer 2
P1121- Porsche Fault Code 430- Throttle position sensor 1
P1515- Porsche Fault Code 541- Throttle adjuster
P1109- Porsche Fault Code 594- Input variables charge
P0103- Porsche Fault Code 115- Hot film MAF sensor
P0507- Porsche Fault Code 32- idle control at stop
plus ABS and PSM error codes.
Wait..... there is more:
After wiggling all wires and clearing all the codes,
all seemed well. He suggested I take it for a test drive EDIT: since he was done for the day,
and had to close shop and go home;
I test drove it, and all was OK.
As I got back on the highway, I was driving at 100 Km/h for 5 or 6 minutes,
and all of a sudden: Klak klak klak klak - LOUD noise on the passenger front wheel area,
as if somebody was banging it with a hammer!!
After a few thoughts of witchcraft, I called back the mechanic, which is now ready to
go home for the day.
I drove very slow to his garage, and he will be checking the new problem (differential??)
first thing in the morning.
What a journey!
I've seen this happen before; a random CEL, then they all light up; alternator + drained battery? Doesn't answer the front diff issue though. Man, talk about a ****ty Monday. Good Luck.
Update:
Front differential crane wheel and pinion are completely gone.
Porsche only exchanges the complete differential- $5,000.00 CDN minus exchange with the broken one.
Labour is around 5 to 7 hours.
I lost my driving mood.
EDIT: PS I've never tracked the car.
Close to 83,000 Km
If anything, I always thought it could have been the engine to go first.
I don't abuse the car, even though I often accelerate for a few moments
in the highway just to stretch a bit.
I always thought I could take it to the track one day, but
now I'm having second thoughts- pay (A LOT) to play.
Thanks Tim.
I got some pictures this afternoon of the differential.
ALL the ten bolts of the crane wheel assembly were BROKEN!!
Some pictures:
Picture 1: Crane wheel - notice damage to the gear.
The 3 visable bolts are broken- they rotate freely by hand
Picture 2: Crane wheel - broken bolts
Picture 3: Pinion - probably useable, but Porsche will not sell me the separate part
I must buy complete differential ($5,000.00 CDN ) EDIT: LABOUR NOT INCLUDED
and give then the broken one in exchange
Picture 4: Differential - it goes right in the front-center of the car- it will be returned to Porsche
as an exchange for a new one
so this is a c4?..... was there any gear oil in there when they pulled it out?....how the did something like that happened... ripping out all the bolts. Gear failure? WTF?
did the mechanic... figure out why it was under stress to rip out 10 bolts?... I cant beleive its bolt failure... sint this where the viscous coupling is located?
We don't know the reasons yet.
I hope Porsche can shed some light.
The only detail I can think of, is a slight click it used to make if I turned the
wheels completely in any direction, while maneuvering either forward or in
reverse. I was told at the time it was normal on AWD.
funny thing is Ive rarely (never) seen any posts with awd going bad or problematic.... (unless you get the 2 side wheels off the ground
right malakas).
How about making this your unique 2S? How much would that be?
People over on 6speed remove their FWD drivetrain on their 966TTs. Are they the same part numbers? If so, would that be a cheaper way to source replacement parts?
I think this mechanical failure is
completely unrelated
to the original problems,
which still worry me, cause they will be back, just a matter of when,
since I did nothing else besides clearing the codes.
I think it is a coincidence that both problems happened in the same day,
in sequence- Cel first, broken differential 20 minutes later.
Could you not leave it as a C2s with the option to fix it later if you found a better deal on a front diff at a wreckers or something ?
DC automotive or Partsheaven surely would have one of these.
Several guys here mentioned that, and even though that would not be
my kind or mod, I should have re-consider it, because of the huge cost
of a new differential.
However, some mods would have to be done to the PSM, and possible
other computer related functions.
It is too late now, part has already been ordered, but I should have thought
of getting a differential from one of the guys that removed his!
Update #2:
For those who followed this thread, one odd thing was that I could not find threads
in this forum with other broken differentials on AWD.
Well, Pfaff Porsche returned my Friday phone call this morning, and according to
the service adviser (Peter), several 996s and 993s have had their front differential
"burned", (to use his exact word) and therefore, replaced.
When asked about the reasons for failure:
Most failures were due to the differential seal leaking the oil, leading to internal failure.
What's with Porsche and "seals" leaking?
Bottom line: $5000.00 Differential, minus core exchange of $500.00,
plus labour and taxes, it will be north of $6500.00. I will know for sure at the end of this week.
I am just a curious observer from another forum but the 996C4S guys should be able to answer this . Does the front diff have a drain port and fill port so gear oil levels can be checked and changed or is it a sealed unit ?
Everyone has hit the major points, and I think it's a great idea to see if a turbo front diff can go in there, a lot of those laying around on 6speed, or run without the diff as otherwise suggested. Check with sunset or suncoast prior to paying the 5K for the part either way.
But back to the matter at hand, from the number and type of errors you reported, you've got what seems to be either a failing or failed wiring harness or a screwy DME, make sure you resolve those issues prior to putting the car back on the road!
Good luck!
Thanks Cosmos
I called in today, and the differential arrived at the shop.
It will be installed tomorrow; I will be in Ottawa until Thursday,
so will pick it up on Friday, if all goes well.
Just to put this thread to rest:
* differential was exchanged
* throttle body was cleaned, and CEL, ABS and PSM never returned
It was expensive, however the only repair since I bought it in May 2006 (3 years).
