Suggestion Needed - Possible Motor/IMS issue

Hi all - hate to be a bad news poster but would like some advice from the group. 04 996 C2, 59300 miles never any issues, changed oil at 58k with no signs of anything metallic in the filter. Selling the car, got a buyer, took it for a PPI. Mechanic calls and says there is a weird noise, sounds like IMS issue. Go down to the shop. Car starts and idles perfectly. They rev it up in idle a bit (3-4k) and then suddenly i hear a noise no one wants to hear. Don't know for sure if it's IMS, motor issue, or what. All I know is I told them to shut it down and not start it again. It wasn't a consistent noise at all, but definitely sounded like that "mechanical" noise you don't want to hear... With that being said I don't know this indy well. There is a local dealer I could go to, and a couple other indys in town. I am in Tucson, AZ. So, any suggestions if the current guy can't locate the issue without starting the car again? Should I go local? Or talk to Flat 6 or someone? I am assuming that if she starts and idles perfect am an likely in a better spot than if I keep running it and make things worse. Hopefully I'll have a happy ending tomorrow, but would love for input just in case I don't.

Not having heard the noise I'd be tempted to take off the drive belt and at least check all the accessories and tensioner... While you could have a bad IMS bearing, chances are overwhelmingly in your favor that it's something else like the water pump, alternator/pulley, power steering pump, air con. compressor or idler pulley.

I think they mentioned that as being a next step after checking the oil filter. Thanks for the response, gives me a bit more confidence they are making the right call for now.

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See what turns up in the oil filter housing oil and oil filter element. Be sure the drain pan that is used to catch this stuff is *clean*. Even if you have to supply the drain pan yourself. What you find determines what you do next. If you find nothing scary, no promises but based on what you wrote I do not get IMSB as the cause of the noise. My WAG is there is a heat shield or an exhaust hanger/bracket or even a converter or muffler making that noise. Be sure the motor mounts are in good shape. At some point though it is almost certainly going to require getting the car in the air with the mechanics at the ready with their mechanic's stethoscope in hand to pinpoint where that the noise is coming from. Where it is determined to be coming from will help determine what you need to do next. Sincerely, Macster.

Taking a video and posting it here would've probably been the easiest...

Shop called and he said shavings in the filter. Dropping transmission now...

Wow what are the chances of something like this happening just when you are ready to sell. Bad timing and hope things work out for you.

Unbelievable luck right? Hopefully I have avoided a worst case scenario and can talk the buyer into paying a chunk.

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Not a selling point, "OH, BTW, we just noticed the IMS going south, caught it just in time". I would turn around and run from that sale.

Agreed, but if this buyer bails having the IMS done will be a selling point for the next one I can line up.

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Unfortunately for the OP, I agree. To the OP, best of luck to you.

Buyer seems to be hanging in as long as it is just IMS replacement.

Have them look at the clutch disk too. If it's nearly down to replacement size then might want to work out a deal with the buyer to pay for somw of it.

AOS too if it is original

IMHO, I would do everything possible not to lose the deal with the potential buyer. Fix the IMS, do a new clutch if necessary and hopefully he goes through with it. If he doesnt I would sell it asap with full disclosure. Things happen VERY quickly when there is debri in the engine even for a short time. Sounds like you were very lucky. That said, its possible the bearing has been going over the last few miles and there may already be damage. Even if it sounds good after the fix you still never know. I have my fingers crossed for you. Good luck.

I noticed your car for sale on Pelican, gorgeous car, not too many white ones (perhaps the reason the buyer hasn't bailed yet..?). Good luck with what ever happens, what will you replace it with?

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White + Tinted windows = perfect combo for AZ heat if local buyer Plus the Turbo Twist II wheels, Bose, PSE Sport Exhaust can't hurt either.

Thanks guys. Short term cash is going towards a move. After that, who knows!

Hope it all works out for you and your buyer. Keep us updated, GL.

I have an engine -- and I'm looking for a 996 3.6L donor. So if it turns out to be more serious than an IMS and you want to sell please let me know. thx, Mike

Next step is to drop the sump plate and see whats in there. If there is a lot of metal in the sump plate, you may not even be able to replace IMSB, IF that is the problem. Metal in the filter and engine noise is . not good, but it could be other things besides the IMSB. Be sure you know exactly what the failure was before you spend lots of money.

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Maybe. There can be trash/debris there not related to the current suspected issue. Furthermore, I haven't touched based with any Porsche techs about this in a while but when I last did (a few years ago) when I came upon an engine that had suffered from a failed IMSB the tech working the engine told me that the checks to see if the engine qualified for a rebuild were to confirm no metal bits were in the clean/high pressure portion of the engine's oiling system. This involved removing the scavage pumps. Any metal bits in there pretty much rendered the engine unsuitable. 'course, no casting damage was allowed either and no overheating or running out of oil. These have been rebuild show stoppers for a long time. Sincerely, Macster.

Hi guys - bearing is toast, heading over in a couple hours to see if they think it's repairable. If they suggest we replace the bearing, anything else outside of the last 2 posts that should be done to ensure I am not dropping money into a dead motor?

Wow.. Sorry to hear about this...

you could boroscope the cylinders to make sure there was no valve contact with pistons. you could also look at the cam shaft alignment to make sure nothing skipped timing. m

Please post pictures of the bearing before and after the grease seal is removed. Thx.

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Really the shop you are having do the work or considering having do the work should be able to tell you yes or no if the engine's a suitable (very very low risk) rebuild engine. The 996 engine I spotted had a very sick IMSB with obvious bearing race damage. The chain had become loose enough to cause one of the crank/IMS chain rails to lose a portion of its composite plastic covering. But as I covered in a previous post the bearing bits (tiny tiny bits of bearing metal almost looking like metal flake) were not showing up in the clean side. The filter had caught all of these. The scavenge pumps were free of any trash and the pistons/cylinders looked good, the main bearings looked good and so on. (I snapped pics of the engine apart.) A thorough 'short block' engine cleaning -- the heads were off and the cases split -- with a new IMS and probably a crank/IMS chain, new chain guide and the engine was back in the car and running just fine. But I am sure I do *not* know the whole story. There may be other checks, or items that required replacing so you really have to be able to rely upon your shop of choice. Sincerely, Macster.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://www.tnwoodwork.com/Temp/IMS.JPG

OK, I was just starting to feel better about IMSB failure because Hans at RAC told me it was an exaggerated issue and rare. Now you post this on the day after I buy my C4S? Just kidding, sorry to hear about your car but just think if the poor guy would have bought it, drove a few miles, and the engine failed. That would have been really bad.

So what would all you guys do if you sold your car and less than a 100 miles down the road the ims goes out? Would it be all on the buyer now?

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Look at it this way. How the hell do you know what the new owner did, after he left your house with the car. Yes, it's a terrible situation but it's not your fault either.

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Yes. When I sell a car I give the buyer a reasonable opportunity to verify the condition of the car. I would work with the buyer to help him do this by among other things showing him all the receipts for services/repairs, and put him in touch with the dealer where I have the car serviced. If the buyer wanted an oil sample to analyze that's ok by me too. I'm not going to ok an engine tear down or even a compression test but I would take an owner on a nice test drive then let him drive the car and within reason check the car out. No way he's going to try to match the factory's 0 to 60mph times or anything like that. But the car is sold as is where is. If something goes wrong 100 miles down the road it is the car's new owner's problem. Sincerely, Macster.