Your help needed on 996 engine noise!!!

Hello All I bought 2000 Porsche 996 Carrera Cab. with 155K, the car is stunning condition with lots records, The car has been sitting in Garage for couple year.Yes I did know it sat for long while, well the Pr owner which older is nice older Gentleman in 70's , told me one day after he drove the car home and parked in his garage, the next day he could not start it, towed to local Porsche dealer, they told the engine is Seized and he need new engine which was odd!!!! After he get shock of his life on cost new/ reman engine, he decided to wait for while, then to towed car back home, which parked in garage which it sat for couple years, I guess after looking long and hard he decided to sell it. I bought the car, to be honest with you a) the car is such great shape , that you would think it just came from factory no scratches or dents, and paint is really in fantastic shape b) the price was very right!!! The pr owner was straight with me and give all the info that he know about the car, anyway I bought the car and then towed the car home ,after fully charging battery over night, making sure it has oil, tried to cranked the engine, just click click, I though the engine is frozen , then I took the belt off , to see if the engine is moves by hand or not, I hand cracked, engine was moving with no biding, then start the car, the car started but it is making strange noise see the video ,also noticed the alternator was not turning over smoothly,(I think it need to be replaced). Drained the oil and no shaving and did cut the oil filter again no shaving. replaced the oil and oil filter with mobile 1 Syn oil, there is maxing of oil with coolant either direction,so I am not sure were noise coming from? here is the link for youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=wbJGQZDhpIs So my thought are 1) it could be IMS? or Valve stuck? timing tensioner? timing chain? or piston slapping around? or???? 2) When I put the belt on again trying to start the engine again click click the engine wont turn over, so I think... I know without belt the engine runs.. not very well but , with belt it does not!!! I really don't want to replace the engine unless I have too.. any input it would much appropriated. Thank you. Here is the my new ride And this was my old ride

Sounds like a stuck lifter. IMS is more like marbles in a can at the rear (trans side) of the engine, between the trans and engine. Don't run it more then 15 sec or so without the water pump running or you will llikely crack one of the heads. Which accessory is dragging so much that the starter can't turn the engine over?

Does sound like a stuck lifter. Could check for exhaust leak also checking tightness of header bolts when engine is cold since from the header area sounds simular. Bad thing is the lifters can get mushroomed making the sticking darn near permanent. You can try a new oil change to see if it frees up. Use synthetic like porsche advises might help since its slipperier

Thank you guys , I did change the oil with mobile one, How can I check for stuck lifter? I am assuming the engine need to be moved and then heads needs to removed. correct? once the heads are moved how one check for it if the one or more then one lifter is stuck? and if so how one can fix it? thanks

It does sound like a lot of work. Removing the valve covers is supposed to require a cam holder that braces the cams in place since the valve covers hold the cam in place. Never tore mine down but I think the cam lobes contact the lifters unlike plain jane systems. Oh yah some on here have skipped using the cam holders. Some have refretted it while others got away with it.

Thank you for the info Pac996 , I guess I need to try to listen with stethoscope to see which cylinder or cylinders have stuck valves , also can you tell me 2000 996 which alternator was used 120 Amp or 150 Amp? I need to replace mine because when I spin the it I could hear bearing not spinning smooth, thanks

There's a catalog of parts for the cars online. Spelled with a K - Katalog. Should be easy to find. 996_USA_KATALOG I didn't see any listing of amps of generators. No listing of alternators. A dowel/stick transmits noise down it so you can hear noise from the spot the stick is on.

Thank you, I am going to work on the car this weekend, and try to isolate the issues, but I guess raining on Sunday that is good excuse to watch football games :-)

thanks I did found the link for all Porsche parts catalog http://ebookbrowse.com/996-usa-katalog-pdf-d57781049

Nice 'looking' cab. Another Rennlister thought his engine was toast, and it turned out to be the alternator. Others will no doubt post their thoughts as well. GL, next time, perhaps a PPI is in order before you purchase.

The ticking is too fast to be a lifter noise. Sounds like it's coming from the rotating assembly (piston and crank shaft). If it was a lifter, it would tick half the speed of the rpm (every se ond revolution).

Luke, Great find and a beautiful car. Given the cars high mileage but great condition, looks like it would make a great winter project to go ahead and pull the engine for a rebuild, if possible, or replacement. If you have the room and time, you could do it. If not, call Jake Raby!

Thank you Barn996, I know engine could be toast but it was suck nice car and nice deal I could not pass it on there no need PPI since I know the condition of the car to start with, But I think the alternator is toast or at least clutch pulley, I need to take look before, order new alternator. Imo000 unfortunately I am leaning toward you idea, I hope I am wrong it not rotating assembly (piston and crank shaft), what I need to do is unplug the coil from each cylinder to see if the sounds get littler better or not, but I am hoping it stuck lifter since it has been sitting for while....plus prv owner he did not tell me it has knock on the engine, was honest seller,I do believe him he told me that local Porsche dealer told him in needed new replace new engine( funny thing is I think alternator is bad and since the engine wont turn over they thought it needed new engine!!!) so there no reason not telling me the truth since he thought engine need to be replaced! KrazyK thank you, I agree although she is high mileage but she has been look after and NOT beater, if it was I would walk away from deal, but when I saw her setting in Garage , if I did not know the mileage I would guess not more then 30K on her! BTW Are you talking about Jake Raby from aircooled technology?

Quick question I found engine locally, with 50K and it is from 1999 911, since it cost few $$$$, I want make sure If I need to replace the engine, this will work in case, I do understand the intake are different , one being egas the other is not. can I transfer the my intake from my engine to other engine? do I need to by additional parts? thanks

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thats my thought and it sounds awful heavy

FYI The sounds is getting little bit less, when idle it seems louder and when you press the gas it seems goes away, here is update video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480oF...ature=youtu.be

Don't run it without the water pump running. You will destroy the engine pretty quickly. Crack at hot spot in head.

Thank you for the heads up, I only ran it for about 15 seconds or so, but noise it seems getting less, no she wont be running until I get the new Alternator in, took to Local auto parts the test it, all the numbers were great but the bearing noise too loud will have to get new one or have local shop rebuilt it. once I do that then I intent to run her till oil comes up to correct temp, the have to see it noise will get less or stay the same? BTW what is correct grade should be used 10w-30 since here the weather always between 55-80 degrees. thnx

If you have a manual with your Porsche it contains the oil viscosity and brand you should use. Also lots of prior posts on oil choices, use the search button.

A cold engine can be started and run with the belt removed and (among other things) the water pump not running with no harm. The advice is to run the engine only as long as necessary to determine if the noise -- generally this is done to confirm the noise is from the accessory drive or from inside the engine -- is present or not. Even if the engine is hot the engine can be started and run for a few seconds (< 30 would be my WAG) without any harm provided the cooling system was in good shape with *no* pressure leaks. The pressure will keep the coolant from flashing to steam. I've started my cold Boxster engine up iwthout a belt to confirm a noise was absent and it was. The noise was determined indirectly as coming from a bad water pump. Another time after hitting some road debris and losing all the coolant I started the cold engine and drove the car a block from a nearby gas station parking lot where I had the tow truck driver leave the car overnight to the dealer's service department without amy issues. Then there was the time the coolant tank split and gushed all the coolant out. After letting the car sit overnght I drove it to the dealer a couple of miles away without any issues. But the general rule is to avoid running the engine any longer than absolutely neccessary to accomplish what is desired by running the engine sans the belt or even with no coolant at all. Sincerely, Macster.

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Even on an 80F day if I wanted to I could get my Boxster's coolant temp to 226F (and the oil temp that hot or even possibly hotter). Even on an 80F day without trying the coolant temp can reach 212F (and likely the oil temp that hot too, or hotter) so you can't assume that just because temps in your area are mild the engine doesn't experience relatively high coolant/oil temp conditions. (With the A/C off drive the car enough so it is fully up to temp and then get ito stop/go traffic or pull into a busy fast food drive through queue and even with the engine idling for a few minutes the coolant temp will climb to the point the radiator fans come on and they come on at 212F.) In the case of a 10w-30 oil the "10w" viscosity is too thick at the cold end of the temp scale and may not adequately satisfy the oiling needs of the engine in the VarioCam/zero lash lifter areas and the "30" viscosity is too thin at the hot end of the temp scale and may not adequately satisfy the oiling needs of the engine in the main/rod bearings or possibly other areas. A 0w-40 or 5w-40 or even a 5w-50 oil should be used. There are various brands approved by Porsche. Your local dealer should be willing to give you a printout of the most recent approved oil list or you can join Renntech.org and view one online if you want to venture away from Mobil 1 0w-40 oil most dealers use. Sincerely, Macster.

Couple miles without any coolant? This is a very bad idea. At least with collant the heat can be absorbed, without it the engine will get hot very fast. Just look at how fast the exhaust manifold heats up. Without any coolant, so does the rest of the engine.

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search oil threads what are you trying to do to the poor guy? make him think we are all nuts.. You know oil is a taboo subject!

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the 996 engine is not like an american car when it comes to cooling. DO NOT RUN THAT CAR WITH OUT BEING LIQUID COOLED. on american cars they heat up when they sit, when you drive them they cool down from the pump pumping more. The 996 is completely different. The harder you run it the hotter it gets. and the easier you run it the cooler it gets. RPM even with no load will have very little effect on the temp of the car.

Thank you for the info Macster, Well I am going to have Alternator problem sort first then have engine run for long while to see if the engine noise will go way or stay the same, although , it seems to me engine noise on second video is seems getting less , and when press the gas at higher RMP the noise almost gone!! Can someone confirm that? ! I am going to change oil one more time to get all stuff out of engine once put couple hours on it , then I am planning to put 0W-40W in it.

Please read this for more oil info. LN Engineering has extensive experience with these engines. http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

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Sorry I reread my post and realized I forgot to mention: The time the tank split not all the coolant drained out. The tank split was located higher than quite a bit of the cooling system so some fluid remained in the cooling system. Also, once the tank cooled down the split closed up the coolant didn't leak too bad. In fact I don't think the tank leaked at all once cold. The next morning before I started the engine I topped up the tank with water and I do not think any fluid ran out. If it had I would have called a tow truck. But even after the short run the engine was not very warm at all. While the exhaust gets hot pretty quick the engine takes a long time -- relatively speaking -- to get warmed up. Had I run the engine enough to get it up to temp and build some pressure the tank now that it had finally split would have probably opened up and gushed water like before. And I can't recall now but I might have turned on the A/C since this turns on the fans and the engine takes longer to warm up and runs cooler once it is warmed up with the fans running. My point is that with some knowledge of what one is doing the engine can be started and run with the water pump not spinning, with the cooling system compromised, even with the engine empty of coolant as was the case in Wichita when I drove the car a short distance with no coolant in the cooling system without harm. Ideally this should be done by someone who has some feel for what he can get away with, safely, without any risk. Sincerely, Macster.

Good News Well Went to local place to rebuilt my Alternator , bad news case was damaged internally and no good, end up going local auto parts and end up getting reman. alternator life time warranty for $170 , and install it. put everything back together , also bought can of restore and put with oil, since I was sitting for so long...start the engine with belt and everything on... the engine noise went down and ran the engine at idle for about 30 mins. Guess what "SHE IS ALIVE" no more noise , no ticking no nothing , just idling nice and smooth, at idle the oil pressure was 1.5-2 bar.....took her to Freeway with top down to open her wings, smooth was as silk doing 80 miles!!!!! I "LOVE MY PORSCHE" (for now hehehe) specially if you can buy it for price of very used Honda Civic, I was ear to ear smiling all the way 80 MPH hehehehe.....I tell you if dealer tells you (PR owner), you need new engine because binding in Alternator.... Unless I can test everything I can do before I give up, then I believe dealer, no wondering they called stealer!!! Well gentleman's I am in love all over again specially when I thought I might to replace engine :-) , thank you for the inputs from all!!!1 That remind me if some one looking for nice used engine with low miles from 1999 996 (47K) I have lead for it for about $3000!!!! send me PM. here is new video I made. the only thing I need to replace oil feed pipe which broke when I removed the airfilter box, anyone has and idea one can take out those two bolts buried behind the Alternator? You Tube

happy ending for you just like him (also a seized alternator...like yours): https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-996-down.html

the sad part is the dealer was all set to screw the old owner

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I don't remember reading the siezed alternator post. Are you sure that's what happened?

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I am guessing you did not watch the video posted on FB? https://www.facebook.com/fixabrokensix

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No I didn't. I was only following the RL thread. Thanks for the link. How the hell was this missed by Flat Six, during the phone diagnosys? 6 months ago I helped another 928 owner, over the phone, with a siezed engine issue. First thing I've asked him was to cut all the accesory belts.

Yes kromdom I agree with good my for me , must done something good in past that come back . Karma :-) Shark Attack I agree the dealer sold new owner and they change the name and under new owner ship, I guess with PR owner got the price of 12K for the reman engine , he decided he was going to think about it,and then nothing happened and just sat for two years then decided he has enough looking at he put it for sale saying it needed new engine, knowing that I bought it, well I got lucky, although I feel bad for Pr owner , I bought not knowing the condition of Car, so I have no guilty feeling about and no bad Karma coming toward me Imo000 , Yes it hard to seized alternator , I took the alternator for rebuilt and they told me the housing is damaged and can't be rebuilt, so I am assuming , that must be why , it would turn over, I tried when I was buying the car and at home , just click click, nothing , well as soon as I replaced the Alternator and put belt on the car started, although with noise (See the first video) and then it got better and better, and today and I have ZERO noise(see the second video). while replacing the Alternator I broke the oil filler tube, ordered the part and got today and I had to take Alt out again to install that part, my god , it was not hard but no room to work on, anyway two hours later , put everything together save my safe $350 labor cost(dealer price), started her and she ran fine and great :-) the moral story is one should NEVER take dealer words, like it coming from GOD, they are in business to make money, granted NOT all the dealers are the same, but one needs to be sure almost 100% before through in cash if not, in necessary!!!

Beleive it or not, a sized alternator is not that uncommon. Happened to a friend of mine and happened to me too. Neither of them were Porsches but both of our initial reactions were the same " F%&k...the engine is siezed" but then, when we started digging into it, in a systematic way, the real peoblem showed up fairly fast. Since the, if I'm facing a siezed engine, step one is to cut the accesory belt/s and try turning the engine. Then, remove the spark plugs and try turning it again. After that, try to take the clutch/transmission out of the equation and so on.

Yep Imo000 I could not agree with more