Amateur motor rebuild

Anyone here know if it's feasible for an amateur to rebuild a 996/997 motor? Are the tools available/needed? Thinking about taking this on as a winter project. I have a 17 bay garage and 4 mechanics to lean on for help but none have ever rebuilt a porsche motor.

Atr, Use the "search" function: A member called Logray has several well-documented posts about his rebuild saga. He includes lots of good pictures and commentary along the way. Also consider becoming a paying member as this community will be able to provide more help than you can imagine.

I am jealous of that set up. If i recall correctly, there were at least 1-2 people that have done the DIY rebuild.

Thanks for the heads up. I was a paying member for years. Let it lapse. Ill check him out.

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What others said. But IIRC Jake Raby is rumored to be issuing a book soon on these engines and it might prove to be a worthwhile addition to the toolbox of anyone contemplating rebuilding one of these engines. I do not know if there's anything on this book yet at his company's web site: http://www.flat6innovations.com/ Sincerely, Macster.

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i'd listen to my daughters pet fish:

It is possible. I did it, and there are others out there who have done it. The work I did documenting and posting here doesn't paint the full picture and is no where close to being a step by step guide. I wouldn't even consider doing it as an ameteur unless you are very mechanically inclined, have prior engine experience, have tons of money and spare time, and are prepared for ultimate failure and waste of your money and time. In fact, in retrospect, I would have been better off sending my car to Jake, for about another $8k on top of what I spent I could have had heads ported, a warranty, bearings and cams cryo'ed and coated, and the peace of mind knowing that it was done by the utmost expert on these engines. That being said, I have to say it was a really fun experience, I would do it again in a heartbeat given the time. I have 5 driver events and 6000 miles on the rebuilt engine... the only thing I've done since April is put air in the tires and change the oil once. Other than that, just get in, turn the key and enjoy the fun pedal, it has truly been a worry and trouble free experience once I completed the rebuild. Honestly though, my story might be an exception to the rule and your best chance of success if you want to DIY is to attend one of Raby's seminars before diving in...

Shouldn't have any issues with the mechanical side. Never done a complete rebuild but I've swapped motors and done top end rebuilds and what not. Also, as mentioned, I have a 40 year VW/Audi tech, 47 year general mechanic and a 15 year Mercedes guy that I employ at my shop so there's no lack of knowledge among us. My question was more in terms of tools required to do the job properly. I have the factory service manuals but they call for many special tools. Some I'm sure I can do without but others I may have to fab/purchase. I'll look for some of your threads though, sounds interesting!

>> Anyone here know if it's feasible for an amateur to rebuild a 996/997 motor? I'm doing it. First flat 6 I've tried. Doing a 3.6L first and then a 3.4L. Whichever one isn't in pieces after I'm done goes back in the car Go for it! Sounds like you have the resources.

A user named billyboy (local to me) is doing one as well. He broke a cam chain and has started a thread.

What are your reasons for the rebuild, just for the hell of it or do you have an issue? I've just completed a rebuild on my 3.6 996 after I had a similar failure to billbob's with the cam chain snapping on bank 1-3, I was on track at the time it failed so consequently I got a lot more damage than billybobs. It took me 3 months working at weekends to get it fixed and I managed to do it with limited space and mostly basic tools, I made one of my own and had the engine timing set at my local indie. Some of you may already of seen this but this is the link to the thread over on the 911uk site if you haven't, http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=74946 It sounds like you have the ideal place for a rebuild and its only an engine at the end of the day?

Once you get a hang of it, they are not that difficult to figure out. One bolt at a time, and you'll get there. Start the teardown and if you hit a snag, see what special tool you need to gk passed it. Then decide if you want to make or buy that tool.

If you've built engines before this is not much different. Quite a bit simpler than what some on this forum might have you believe. After all, most 15 year old kids know how to rebuild Subaru boxer's don't they? Infra... I'm building the first one to learn and the second one will be built for more POWER.

Yeah, it's funny how a little inexperience can get you though. Example: I pulled the cams without using the proper procedure. Ill have to get them inspected now. Shortly after, I turned the engine on the stand some of the hydraulic lifters fell out (they're supposed to go back in the same hole they came out of). GAH. Tomorrow I think I'm going to split the case and see what kind of damage there REALLY is. I may be abandoning this if there's crank damage as they aren't easy to come by and oversized bearings aren't available. Either way, this has been FUN

atr911, what is your engine failure? As you've already found out there is a lot to learn, but the best way to learn without mistakes is to read as much as possible before every step. Porsche do stipulate that the lifters are noted from where they came for replacement but I had to buy 10 new ones so this made it impossible to put them all back in their original position. You really need to take lots of pictures and label/bag everything even if its not going back in the engine because you are renewing, don't discard broken parts before you've finished the build, you may need them for reference. I nearly made the mistake of fitting a head before I'd fitted one of the crank cage bolts but because I did a mock up trial I realized I'd not fitted it, luckily doing this saved me a head gasket and 12 head bolts. Another mistake I made was not tightening the crank case together quickly enough, allowing the Loctite sealant to go off before it was fully torqued, (bolts should be torqued within 5 minutes of fitting the sealant) I had to take the crank case apart and start again. You WILL enjoy the build though, very satisfying doing it yourself, I will also add its not for everyone to just go ahead and rebuild, you will need some relevant experience, there are a few points along the way that'll trip you up if not careful.

Sounds like you should attend my December Engine Rebuild School. Four days of hardcore 10-12 hour days with you hand on the wrenches and first hand. We have been booked up with all 20 slots filled for a month or so, but had two cancellations so that opened up two spots. More info here http://www.flat6innovations.com/clas...rebuild-school Macster, its not just a rumor about my book.. Its true. Its not posted on my site as I don't like dozens of emails a day filling the inbox about what the contents of the book are. The book will be available this winter.. But no book will take the place of 4 solid days at our facility getting first hand, hands-on experience with the guys that have pioneered every piece of the M96 engine. The rebuild school and what it offers isn't available in any other format and a book that comprehensive would be 2,000 pages thick. These engines are much different than any other that one will experience, but those who haven't been inside them enough or at all will argue this point with me. This world is filled with Parrots and behind the keyboard dreamers that breed misinformation. My rebuild scholl is filled with tricks, its the tricks that take years to acquire and cost thousands of dollars worth of broken parts to experience. Any newbie to this world needs to do their homework and take months on the sidelines researching before taking the plunge.

Infrasilver, I believe the primary failure was a crank bearing. There were large shards of metal in the oil pan and the motor lost oil pressure. It's entirely possible I'll need to find a donor engine to take some parts from. I have the factory manual that I read through initially but then re read as I hit different parts of the process. Every time I look at it, I catch something new. I'm nervous but excited!

The factory manual gets folks in trouble all the time, especially in regard to cam timing procedures. Lots of info was lost in the translation from German to English and some things simply are not there. I have seen some newbies build really good engines and do a better job than most shops, because they were so afraid of the engine that they didn't risk anything. I have seen others think the engine was so simple that they jumped right over huge issues and cost themselves thousands of dollars in a matter of minutes. Working with any engine that has failed multiplies the difficulty and I don't even recommend doing so for the technicians that I instruct across the USA for WTI or at my rebuild school. Working with an engine that has failed is by far where the most experience is required. Anybody can bolt things together; identifying issues during assembly is the what separates the men from the boys and saves time, money and heartache. As we say "Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement".

Thanks for your input Jake. You and your guys have been very helpful over the last few months in answering questions regarding my options (rebuild/used/porsche warranty etc). I'm seriously contemplating taking the engine building course in december. Maybe even start doing some of these for local guys if all goes well to pay for the training/tools and keep me busy at the shop.

Doping so would be an investment in the future. We can't do them all and I have turned away four jobs this week so far. To think.... A few years ago the owners of other shops in the industry were laughing at us for "wasting our time" learning about these engines. Today they are sending employees home because they have no work and we are wide *** open. Its all about foresight and seeing the future without the need of a crystal ball. If I didn't watch the news I'd have no idea that we were in a recession.

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Not just the cams, but the bearings too, when you released them without having the cams locked down you could have done some damage, the lifters have some preload on them, assuming you were at the correct crank position (and a LOT more if you were at the wrong position). So that was you emailing me, I didn't put the two together until now (I get quite a few of these emails on a regular basis, some success and some failure stories). Soooo soooo true. This is no weekender project, I think even for someone who has attended your class or built engines before, they need to do tons of research. I did my time and spent literally months gathering information before taking the rebuild plunge... wish I could have gone to your class, it would have saved me some time and hiccups along the way.

One thing i've heard from several club racers is that they can and have rebuilt their own engines. and everything went well, but the engines that were built by a specialist pro lasted longer. There is a difference. Freshening up a motor is common in racing.

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But we aren't. Only scary bad news sells. We've been out of recession since June of '09. Sorry, Back on Topic.... Jake, I know you've said you are an "engine internals guy"... but wondering if you have done any flow bench testing of the M96 heads? If so do you have any flow stats you could share for an unmodified intake? @ 28" I'm down to bare heads now and looking at doing some port work. These raw cast ports have "mass produced" written all over them. Poor seat to port transitions. Shrouding of top cut into chamber, etc ... definite improvements could be made with some minor porting. Thx for your continued tips & guidance... much appreciated.

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I thought you already got a replacement engine?

Ummm yeah. That douche nozzle flaked now I'm fighting to get my $6600 back

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That's what's called strategic initiative in the big-league business world, and it appears you've nailed it.

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you paid $6600 for an engine and never received it?? WTF is that all about - would be nice to let others know if there is yet another engine rippoff artist around.

It's only been 2 days since the guy responded but it's not looking good. He's been banned as of a week ago from the website I used to purchase it from and hasn't responded to a single email or phone call. Either way, it's getting messy.

Care to share who and what site?

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...ml#post9925150 and same guy https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post9924897 Originally purchased from www.6speedonline.com but they removed the thread when they banned him

Man that doesn't sound good.....