996 Ownership after one year... I'm Out!

Well, I'll try to keep this short but I think it's important to tell my story for those that might stumble upon this thread contemplating purchasing a 996. I bought my '99 Carrera 4 6-speed coupe almost a year ago. It had 94k miles on the clock yet was in pretty good condition. I paid a bit below the market value for the car ($15k) from a private owner and did not have a professional pre-purchase inspection done on the car... just went over it myself on a lift and while driving it. I ended up doing an AOS when that failed and decided to do some maintenance at the same time... plugs, coils, tubes, etc. After that, I began losing coolant and installed a new expansion tank and cap. It continued to happen along with a CEL mis-fire on cylinder #2. I finally gave up and brought the car up to PowerTech in Rockaway, NJ. Mike originally suspected a head gasket because while the car was running pretty well, it was burning coolant yet did not have any intermix. After checking the cylinder with a borescope it was determined that I had a crack in the cylinder wall ... a fatal diagnosis. As you can imagine, I was not a happy camper. This is a $90k car who's engine could not even make it to 105k miles. Speaking to Mike and reading a ton online, it seems like these 3.4L and to a lesser extent the 3.6L WC Porsche engines really have some issues. Cracked heads, cracked blocks, IMS bearings, etc... it's pretty scary if you ask me. I was interested in moving up to a 996 Turbo, but this experience has really soured me towards Porsche (yes, I know that Turbos have a different engine that don't suffer from these issues). I really enjoyed the car, but I could not see putting $10+ into a car with that kind of mileage that I only paid $15k for originally. The fairly happy ending.... I was able to drive the car into the local Chevy dealership and get $12,700 for the car as a trade in on a 2010 2SS Camaro RS with 5k on the clock. The LS3 make 426hp and comes from a line (LSx) of pretty dependable engines. The Camaro is certainly not a 911... no comparison. I want to thank everyone for their help in my other threads on here and especially to Mike at PowerTech who was very knowledgeable and friendly throughout the process... highly recommended! Maybe I'll be back someday. Good luck to everyone else here... may you have better luck then me! -JRW

oh man you went from a 911 to a Camaro?? I get that you soured on Porsche but I can't imagine going in that direction.

I would delete this post unless you told the dealership about the leak or had the leak fixed. Laws vary by state but most dealership will have you sign something to the fact that you did not know of any issues with the car before you sold it to them.

Every prospective new owner should read your post. Porsche ownership can be fraught with danger. Things like extensive maintenance records, a detailed pre-purchase inspection, a good mechanic, relative financial resources, a sense of humor, and an understanding spouse are often required... and even then it might all go sideways. There is a big difference between a passenger car designed for performance, like the Camaro, and a true performance car, such as a 911. You probably will never get Mustang/Camaro-like reliability from a 911. But then... you also won't have a Porsche.

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In my experience the only declaration usually required is related to odometer disclosure. Anything else is on the buyer unless specifically noted in the sales contract. If it were otherwise, dealerships (and private parties) could go after prior owners at will.

Every prospective buyer of ANY car with nearly 100k miles on the odometer should know that it can be a crap-shoot.

Unfortunately the cost of purchase is just the price of admission into the game, and it usually goes up from there, even for routine maintenance unless you can turn a decent wrench. And while anyone of us can get hit with the "big ticket" isues such as IMS or cracked cylinder walls, I believe the risk increases exponentially with age and miles. I also believe much of this can be attributed to Porsche becoming more focused on profits and less focused on durability and engineering in recent years.

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I understand your frustration but why didn't you purchase a 10yr old Camaro with 94k so you can get a good comparison? I'm sure a 2010 Carrera with 5k on the odo will not be much of a problem either.

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Don't forget transmission..

Thanks for the replies. I'm actually a little bit surprised about some of the comments... thought I might get bashed for my statements. Every car is a crap shoot... I get that... especially a performance car with such mileage... but I don't expect to have major structural failures to parts like the engine block or frame especially in the numbers that are being reported. Maybe it it were a Kia, but not from a manufacturer such as Porsche. I am a car guy and have a bunch of other performance cars that all have their own issues, but I am disappointed in what I (and many others) have gone through. The Camaro can't even be compared to the 911... I just needed to trade the car in ASAP. During the trade in process, I signed a paper stating that the car had never been in an accident or had the mileage rolled back that I knew of... During the test drive, the service manager stated that they could not give me the full value of the car due to some 'blow by'. I accepted his diagnosis and his best trade-in offer. To be honest, until the engine is out of the car and disassembled, no one really knows what the issues are 100%. I wasn't going to let it get to that point. -JRW

Sorry for your bad experience, but the Camaro SS is one hell of a car Good luck with your Camaro

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Dealers don't keep 10 year old Camaros on the lot... doesn't take a genius to figure out why. I'm sure 10 year old Camaros have their issues as well. This seriously wasn't meant to be a comparison of the two cars. I would have traded it in for just about anything honestly due to my situation. I really wanted people to understand that too many 3.4L WC engines are seeing catastrophic issues that no PPI will be able to find. Look on ebay... there are a ton of MK1 911's for sale between $10k-$15k. People need to go into such a purchase with an understanding of what can and probably will happen at some point. That's all... not hating Porsche... just disappointed. -JRW

Sounds like you got out of a your Porsche with a healthy downpayment towards the Camaro. Until my 3.4 self destructs, I'll still believe that most of these 'issues' are not widespread. Too bad you didn't get a chance to really bond and enjoy your Porsche.

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Understood.

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... and let me add two more things: 1) The Porsche community (on this site and others) seems to be a pretty mature and helpful group of people. While I may not have had the best experience with the car, I did learn quite a bit about it with the help from other Porsche enthusiasts. 2) I can't stress enough how helpful Mike and the guys at PowerTech have been. From lots of follow up emails to lengthy conversations on the phone about the situation, they helped me throughout the entire ordeal. -JRW

Well you paid Kia Money for a 911 at 15K for a car that had a 80K sticker and you lost the gamble I bought a 99 Cab wih full suspension mods for 16 and put 2K into it, I have done everything needed and have a great running car for the price of a new Kia, I live in the northwest and I am careful to keep the temps down. I also knew it would cost me 8-10 K if it went **** up The Early 996s are a bargain BUT ITS NOT CHEAP TO REPAIR ! IF you are going to make payments and do not have the funds you are better off with a Camaro If you have to make payments be prepared, you could have even bought an extended warr if had less than 100K on it. You didn't do a PPI No Extended warranty and your complaining I am sorry Its not Porsches I own 993s (3) 2 356s, several Early 911s and 12s a 77 ( which were less reliable than the 996 ) an SC and 2 collectable Carreras. Porsches are not cheap to fix but they are great cars at that price

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+1 If I didn't do all of the routine maintence on this car it would be too costly to own. Folks who have little want/knowledge/skill to do the routine stuff on cars that are out of warranty (and expensive to repair) better have a nice stash of cash for the things that need to be maintained and for the the things that "might happen"

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Now, that's the kind of reply I had been expecting. You are right on so many accounts. The early 996's are great cars and can be found cheaply. I even expected to do a bunch of repairs. My post wasn't about repairs... it was about catastrophic failures. These are two completely different things. I also didn't talk about any air-cooled engines from Porsche. While I have never owned one, I have not read about any major engine problems with them compared to the 3.4L WC engine. Finally, please tell me what shop does a complete PPI that includes an analysis of the structural integrity of the cylinder walls and heads. I will surely call them next time! -JRW

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I think pretty every shop will...just comes down to you wanting to pay 200 for a ppi or 500++ for a ppi.

Would a problem have been detected with a compression test? That is something that I was taught to do when inspecting a used car for purchase. I would think that it would also be part of a PPI by a shop or dealer.

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I did not know this... exactly how is it done? Even now, the compression is within spec... the leakdown on cylinder #2 is slightly high but within spec... they won't show you the problem... at least not in my case. -JRW

Note to self -- don't buy a 99 996 in DC :-) I can live with the AOS, IMS (since it can be retrofitted), but the cracked cylinder liner/header is what is really scary. Darn near impossible to detect and for the most part catastrophic. Although not relegated just to 99's -- both Boxster and 996, I've seen/heard more about the 99's having the issue than other years -- although I have seen other years as well (including an 04 996! with a cracked cylinder liner). m

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Early cars chains, Maintainence and more maintainence MFI was great to drive but a pain to keep in tune 74-77 911s granaded at 50-70K miles total rebuild needed cars had 1 YR 12K mile warranty plus everything below 78-83 pulled head studs but if they made it they could run 300K but required a ton more maintainence Pop off valves Carrera tensioners needed 84-89 maintainence costs 3 times those of a 996 but pretty bullitproof valve adjust yearly for $500 96-98 993 SAI light requires either a lot of luck or a 6K-8K drop and head cleaning on USA OBD2 Models (luckily ok in Germany) I just made a verbal deal on a turbo should be a great autobahn car A Porsche is More reliable than most HIgh Performance Sports cars of any brand I have driven a 99 with 230K on it with regular mainatainence Buy a good car and maintain it Just don't think its a Kia Catastrophic I have seen many times, in all these costing more than the car is worth, diferent Generations different Problems IMS fix is a good Idea though thats the main cause

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+1

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AMEN!

The 996 while it has depreciated so much now and could be picked up cheap, don't let it fool you unless it comes with a new engine. It's a ticking time bomb on the wallet. Now it's so cheap that it's in the budget of a lot a people that would have never bought it while it was semi new, they would be better off with a 944 or pay a little more and get a 964. Glad you at least got back some of what you put in to it. That Camaro is a beast.

The 3.4 cars typically seem to be the most talked about and there is no doubt that some do have issues. Unfortunately you are one of the unlucky ones. Although there are a lot of 996s that have been very reliable, that does not make it any easier when you are the unfortunate one. That said, at only $15K, you had quite a car. In your shoes, I would have considered replacing the IMS and then would have taken a serious look at some of the liner solutions that are out there (go check out Hartech for instance). It would not have been cheap, but it would have been a very solid motor. These cars have a lot of good point too. Although it is fashionable to bash Porsche for bad engineering, I don’t believe that this is the truth. These engines are very sophisticated and were entirely new when they arrived on the scene. The bigger issue is that they have a high power density. That 1999 motor was rated at 87.1 hp/litre (a contemporary Corvette was 60.5). And today, that has grown to 102.9 today (for a base Carrera and 69 for a base ‘Vette). At the same time, fuel economy and emissions have significantly improved. Porsche has obviously learnt a lot in the intervening decades from the new water-cooled motors, and the 9A1 embodies a lot of the hard lessons. Although many continue to give reliable service, there are definitely some things I would consider doing. For the earlier cars an IMS update is a very reasonable course of action, as a failed IMS caused tremendous collateral damage. Cracked cylinder walls are a noted weak point in the early 3.4s. That said, many 3.4s have gone much higher mileage with no issues (a guy local to this area is in the midst of a top-end on a 3.4 with +200K and cylinders are great). Your best bet here is being very diligent about the cooling system condition and warm-up/cool-down. Who knows how your car was treated before you got your hands on it? That said, there are surely some cars that develop issues for no real reason, it is the nature of complex mechanical devices. As for a PPI, cylinder walls can be examined with a borescope, which is not unusual to do these days. The spark plugs have to come out for compression and leak down tests anyway.

Cool thread. The facts should be out there. Unfortunately, some topics on this forum become a little more like politics and religion and less like popular mechanics. For $35,000, I've owned a car for two years that has had only one thirteen-dollar mechanical problem (a clutch switch). I could likely sell the car (in Canada) for more than $30,000. Therefore, the cost of ownership has been less than I could have expected from any other car on the market, new or used. That said, there's a gamble. Sometimes when I read this forum I think that these cars are prone to catastrophic failure. But then my father's Mercedes had a timing chain jump and the car was worthless. A few weeks later friend, and Rennlist member, had an oil line fail on his Saab. Also worthless. The problem is that neither men posted these problems on a forum anywhere - certainly not on Rennlist. When an 10-year old Hyundai bites the dust no one cries or contemplates a class action lawsuit. And people turn heads and take pictures of my 10-year old car. No one takes a picture of a camaro.

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Big +1 If the previous owner(s) would have done the following, a cracked cylinder would have been far less likely: 1. Change your Water pump long before it shows signs of failure (especially if your car still has the orignal WP - regardless of year or mileage! - These cars are at least 7 years old now) 2. Invest in the lower temp (160) stat - I don't want to get into an argument of whether it keeps temps lower or not - it does - no need to discuss. 3.Ensure the quality of your coolant and make certain you have the right mix for your region/driving conditions. 4. Make sure all hoses are in decent shape 5. Keep your radiators clean and ensure that all fans are working in both stages. and then drive the Sh*t out of the car.

FWIW, I just want to second a lot of what's been said here. As with a lot of 'exotic' used cars, the costs tend to be in having them, not buying them. We're dealing here with cars that are well over a decade old, and were produced in quantities of 20,000 units a year or less. There is simply no way to have the badge and the experience and not end up paying for it one way or another. I'm not even going to try rationalizing that, but it's true. The other piece of advice I think makes a ton of sense is that everybody should simply walk away from a Porsche with no maintenance records. Part of the reason is obvious. Less obvious is that there are some expensive consumables on these cars. Identical examples at identical prices can be very different bargains if one is due for brakes and tires and the other isn't. I'm sorry it didn't go well for the OP, but frankly, at current prices, even if you bake in some risk, 996s are still a bargain.

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I was lucky to get most of what I had into it back on the trade. I am not scared of older vehicles or ones with high mileage because I am pretty handy around cars and have my own lift and workshop. I don't have the time or knowledge to deal with a catastrophic engine failure though. Sounds like a spot on analysis. The car certainly could have been mistreated by previous owners. Had it been something like a timing chain or oil line, I wouldn't have much to say. If I was the only one having this issue, I wouldn't have much to say. It's the sheer number of owners that have had similar experiences that gets me. Another reason for my thread here... potential owners should have an understanding about this engine. I tend to agree with you. Again, it's the number of reported cases that bothers me. Do you think every single one of these cars was abused or mistreated? Good discussion guys! -JRW

Well, what is the "sheer number"? Based on the internet forums, I'd say it is a lot. Reading more informed sources such as Hartech and others, it seems more rare. From my own direct experience and reading a lot of information I have my own beliefs. All I will say is everyone has an angle and it becomes difficult to properly put things in perspective.

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First, and foremost, enjoy the new to you Camaro. I've never been a big muscle car guy but I really like the new Camaro. I took an SS convertible for a test drive about a year ago. It was a beast (and I mean that in a good way). Second, and please don't take this the wrong way but, I'm not sure how you can claim any right of expectation to a car you didn't have PPI'd before purchasing. For all you know, it was thrashed by the prior owner, used to teach kids how to drive, or driven without oil for months at a time. I know it isn't the answer to every problem but it might have saved you from buying the grenade you ended up with. In all honesty, a KIA shouldn't time bomb at 100k either. Hell, they all come with 10yr/100k mile warranties! While I agree with you that any modern car should easily last well over 100k miles, I always took it as a universally known/understood principle that any car is a crap shoot when the odo reads about 100k. I'd expect to put good money into a car at that point for basic maintenance and if "thrashing" was part of its first 100k miles, I'd expect a lot of good money to follow. I totally get being soured by the experience though. It sucks and I'm sorry you had a negative year with your Porsche. Hey, you can always come back and try it again. Best of luck with the new car! -Eric

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience and I hope you find your way back into another Porsche someday! My 996 ownership has been great. That being said, I have every record of everything done to my car since the day it was new. I've maintained it meticulously. It has been expensive, there's no doubt about that. I don't have a car payment, which is nice, but if you look at what I spend in maintenance per year and then spread it out over 12 months, I could make a payment on a pretty nice car! The 996, no matter how well maintained, is not a "drive it and forget it" vehicle like a newer car. There's always something to fix or mod... It's not for everyone.

You know... reading all of these great replies and reflecting a bit, I think I am just upset that it "finally happened to me". I have a garage full of performance and semi-rare cars that have treated me very well. Maybe it was just time for my luck to run out. Maybe I was naive and should have paid more for a car with records or had a thorough PPI done including an internal inspection. Either way, the sun still rose this morning so it's not the end of the world. I was lucky enough to drive a Porsche almost every day to work for about a year... and now I have something new to play with. Anyone considering an early 996 would benefit greatly by reading this thread and following up with a search or two on here. Those with 911's... enjoy them ... and best of luck! -JRW

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+100 Well said!

I just bought an '03 Targa from a dealer last month, and, two days later, I decided to go back to the dealer and see if they'd still offer me the basic warranty for engine, transmission, etc. I spent $3000 on the warranty for 3 years of coverage... and my water pump went out a week later, which paid for nearly a third of the warranty. I didn't want to worry about IMS, RMS, etc., for at least 3 years, so I bought the warranty, and it's already well on its way to paying for itself! LOL

I have seen plenty of these cars reach 200k+ miles, but like any car, it really depends on how well the car was taken care of and how hard the previous owner drove the car. a PPI with a compression test might saved you a lot of trouble.

Sorry to hear that the experience has soured you on the brand, I hope the trading dealer doesn't pass off your headaches to someone else who thinks Porsche's are affordable and ends up in the same cycle. No easy answers, getting out of bed in the morning is a gamble. I guess the difference is that those who don't make it out of bed, or meet their demise that day, aren't around to post on the internet about it. I've been lucky, I have two 996's and purchased both of them used, one as a CPO from a dealer a little over 5 years ago and had it not been a CPO car I wouldn't be as happy, yet nothing catastrophic in over 50k miles of driving. The other from a private party, had a long distance PPI done but expect that was just a routine inspection as it cost only $200.00. Bought the second one sight unseen, had it about 10 months and put over 10k miles it, most expensive repair, covered by 3rd party warranty, was the audio head unit and amplifier. When I first started looking I knew nothing of the IMS or RMS - but I remember a friend who is a "Porsche Guy" caution me that almost all Porsches "look" good. Need to understand that these are truly highly engineered performance cars and as such there is much that needs to remain operating in harmony. Yes, it costs me to drive these cars on a daily basis, and I only have the cars serviced and repaired by my local Porsche dealer, so far so good. Now on the other hand, I have a couple of 20+ year old Ford trucks with well over 100k miles on the clock. They are neglected, oil leaks don't get fixed, I add oil. The trucks can sit untouched over an entire cold winter, and no lie, I get in either one of them, turn the key and they come to life. If you knew how many times I thought - "amazing that they drive down the road, steer and brake, for as old and neglected as they are and neither of them with ever a problem that took them out of service". That said, I still think they are dangerous as hell, they don't steer very well and you had better know that you need to stop a bit ahead of time (they always were that way, I've owned one of them from new). Purposeful apples to oranges comparison. One brand that I personally consider as a precision instrument, the other brand designed to be built "Ford Tough" and capable of operating under a broad range of tolerances. I think Porsche's mantra is "Porsche, there is no substitute". They each have their respective place on the road. As do we all. Months ago a Camaro SS was toying with me in my C4S. It was a tremendously fun time, I could not only hear that Camaro thundering up from behind, I swear I could "feel" him coming. Then again, the howling of my PSE and the song played at high rev's by the Porsche engine may have enticed him to attempt to show me his stuff - the car did look good in my rear view mirror during our top end run. Enjoy your new ride - go out and see if it eats Porsche's for breakfast - that'd be fun. Sincere wishes for better luck with the Camaro.

Firstly, I am sorry to hear that OP had a bad experience - but the fact remains is that this is an $80K car that he paid $15K for - when a 911 (even a 996) is that cheap, it cannot have come as a surprise that it bombed out so soon. It is also seems true that the 1998-2000 years have more issues. I shopped for my Porsche for about 6 months before I finally bought. What I learned in that process is that there are no "deals" on Porsches - the good ones do command top dollar. It is also a commodity that people seem to shop for across North America - so prices for the good ones stay high. When a 996/997 is cheaper, well, there's usually a story behind it.

Another instance of someone thinking they were getting a bargain porsche and learned it comes with super-car costs. You now have a car that fits you perfect. A porsche isnt for everyone.

To the OP, I'm sorry that things didn't work out for you. To that point, you were essentially unscathed in this whole process -- you paid $2500 over 12 months to drive a fantastic car. While I know they were helpful, did you consider getting a second opinion from the original Indy that diagnosed your issue? GL with the Camaro. DS

The 928s were in this same exact boat, 15 years ago. I'll give it another five years and the owner demographics will change to an almost all DIY owners. AND then the real fun begins and at the same time, the current 996 owner group will be in the 997 forum. That's just how the Porsche cycle works. The 996s are getting so cheap now that gearheads and true all out DIYs are starting to take notice. That's how I got my hands on my 996 project 2 months ago.

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Two quick observations applying your comment to the relevance of this thread: 1. A 300 hp 996 is not exactly what I would term a 'High Performance Sports Car' However, if the 996 HP/TQ numbers and the corresponding track times makes it so: 2. There are several, several examples that out perform, outlast and are substantially cheaper than a MkI 996 when new. As for comparable used car pricing, the fact the 996 cannot even hold its value against the mass produced Corvette (and I am talking regular C6 versions, not Z06), should say a lot about how the mighty Porsche name has fallen. Once mentioned is every sentence that held even vague reference to sports cars in general, it is now become somewhat of an afterthought to many outside of the immediate community. When you water your brand and reputation with bland products, well publicized sketchy reliability, overblown service & parts costs that are all backed up by a 'Who gives a **** about the customer~Porsche NA', then this is exactly the fall from grace they should expect.....but don't. I mean seriously....other than some GT cars, what have they really produced that made you sell your kids to get on a waiting list to snag one? Sorry to hear of troubles OP. Good luck with the new car

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trolololol

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Wow, your post made me laugh. What are you doing here? Go drive your Dodges.

My 1999 Dodge Durango suffered a catastrophic engine failure due to a cracked block and intermix issue. That was (and still is) the last Dodge I'll ever own. Everyone has skeletons in their closet!

sort of odd to post that you traded the car into a dealer knowing very well it had engine issues - you admit that you didn't get a PPI then bitch about a problematic 996 that you purchased. - not that i'm a fan of dealers, but since i am one to own a car for 1-2 years then sell it, i feel it's important to be upfront and honest about the condition of a car i am selling so the buyer is well informed - you sound like a real schmuck - your actions rub me the wrong way and i couldn't be happier we won't be hearing from you again probably a good chance we will be hearing from the next buyer of your problematic 996.

I stopped feeling sorry for you after this quote. Would you buy a Cessna this way? Would you buy a 10 year old house without an inspection by someone qualified? Have fun with your Government Motors unit...

I agree with groovzilla this guy has some bad karma coming his way= just not right even to a dealer lol,just my two cents.

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PPI's don't include pulling the plugs and borescoping the cylinder walls or doing a compression test or cooling pressure test and how could you tell if valve guides are worn out. I could have a PPI done and it would come out clean. Other then them noting a ticking noise that can't be diagnosed and with no errors being thrown it would pass no problem. Tires/Brakes/Clutch/Test Drive/hoses secure/no sign of leaks all would pass with flying colors. That said my engine is sick and needs a rebuild, scored #4 and oil consumption is extremely high but can't be detected unless they did a 4 hour test drive. PPI is useless when you can check all those your self. Money better spent taking in to a mechanic and running the tests that they don't do, along with having a printout of error codes and a full paper trail of service history.

You really think you did the right thing? What if the guy who owned your Camaro before you turned in a car that was patched togeather and had major faults you would be squealing on their board as well correct !

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Ahhh... the name calling starts... very mature. 1) It sounds like you have not read the entire thread... maybe a post or two... and decided to add your two cents. I was not 'bitching about a problematic 996' and clearly stated so. I was talking about the sheer number of 3.4L WC Porsche engines that have suffered catastrophic engine failure... mine included... as more of a warning to potential buyers. This is not a one off situation where I bought a poorly maintained or abused car (which it might have been). There are many accounts of engine failures from people with high mileage well used cars all the way to low mileage well maintained cars. 2) The car was taken to a dealer ... a professional in the automotive industry... who took the car for a test drive and had all the time in the world to look it over. They told me that there was a problem with the engine and couldn't give me the full trade in value. I accepted their diagnosis and accepted their offer. 3) The car will most likely end up at the auctions where it will be purchased for next to nothing and might even become a parts car. Dealers (at least around here) don't keep anything on their lot older then 2-3 years old. In my last post I said that this was partially my fault. I have had great luck with performance and rare cars in the past and probably should have gotten a PPI. I do feel that while PPI's are valuable, they can not tell the whole story. I recently read a story on another forum about a guy that didn't even make it back home after buying a used 996 before he had catastrophic engine failure. Of course he was very upset because he had a thorough and expensive PPI done before buying. Again, its more about the problem with Porsche... whether its poor manufacturing, poor quality control, poor materials, etc... This is a 12+ year old car... hopefully the newer engines have worked out these issues. Karma? Really? -JRW

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This is what I thought. Incorrect! I explained the trade in a couple of times... you can scroll up to see it. As for the Camaro... who knows... the previous owner might have taken it to the drag strip every night... I don't know. I honestly don't care to much because I have a 6-year 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty with a $100 deductible. -JRW

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This sums up the thread. The o/p bought a very cheap porsche thinking it's a honda civic and simply didn't have the DIY skills or the money to make it work. The fact he traded in for a new thing with warranty only suggests further he had no business buying what essentially is a project porsche. I paid next to no money for my 4s ($22K and got a good price for the m3 i was trading in), with the expectation that if the motor craps out I've got a longer term project. If you financially can't swing $7-8K for new motor if needed, you're looking at a wrong marque.

Well I can go on record and say You have your warranty, you have your Camaro May the Porsche Ownership experince elude you and hopefully Us from whoever bought your car, If you want to drive on a road course, check with the Camaro owners club

Maybe its time this thread died

This thread is starting to show some real entertainment value now!

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Ummm... another crazy reply. There hasn't been one post on here about racing or track time... so what are you talking about? Most owners of 911's don't race them... hell, most are driving around with automatics. The Camaro certainly won't see any track time. I have a car for that... complete with cage, harnesses, and other safety equipment. My 996 was just an enjoyable way to get to and from work every day. I don't have DIY skills? Seriously? You consider a complete rebuild including cylinder wall repair or the repair of cracked heads to be a DIY job? This should be expected when buying a car? Most shops don't do this... they send it out. Come on now. When someone buys a Porsche they should set aside an additional 50% of the original cost for a major repair? If that is indeed true, that will surely kill the used Porsche market. I'd like to thank the other people who have sent me private messages because they didn't want to get attacked on here for their opinions. I realize that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Hopefully potential 996 buyers will read a bit of this which will help them make a more informed decision. Thanks, -JRW

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Two even quicker observations: 1. If HP is the arbiter of "high performance sports cars" then clearly Caterpillar makes some of the best such cars on the planet. 2. The C6 'vette started production when the 996 ended. NEXT TROLL PLEASE DADDY HUNGRY!!

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+1

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+1

Sorry about your experience. Hope to see you back at some point. P-cars are one of the most enjoyable cars on the road to drive. I went from an air cooled 911 to a C6 Corvette. Never had a single problem with the Corvette but I still went back to a 996 C4 simply because of the fun in driving it.

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Ok what car do you have for the track! does it turn away except left? You claim alot, post a pic and proof and I will withdraw it all and send some FF Miles so you can experience driving in Germany hell you can drive my 996 ! I read your other posts and you are as confused as a hungry cow on astroturf You bouht a great with no PPI car, then you learned you were shifting a bit early, and getting 24MPG then the fluid issue. If you expected to buy a 90K car used for 15K there might be a reason for it being so cheap do your due dilligence ! Drive the damn thing, It gets so tiring to hear Someone who claims to have a track car not have the sense to do a PPI, and then the 996 is the easiest of all 911s to service, and a very stable car for a track. 20 days worth of instruction with mine and it runs flawlessly Yes it's had the issues you mention, if you have DIY skills you sure don't show it in your posts in thoughts or words. Come to Deutschland drive the car hard and service it well, I have my thoughts on 996/Boxsters not being driven hard enough, I did an IMS and clutch as well as thermostat retrofit and rerouted the coolant lines, water pump change. Poser/Troll/Incompetant/Uneducated Now that you own a great great retro muscle car with a warranty after dumping your mistake to a dealer go on GO PLease and check the mileage on your camaro

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+1

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Since I have too much time on my hands, I've been playing around by Googling things like " worst cars of the decade", "cars with most engine failures" and the like. Seems like no car manufacturers are immune from duds. I didn't see Porsche on any of the villain lists however.

I am sorry to see that your Porsche experience has been less then positive; however, by the same token, I have had my 2000 996 for a little over a year and am very pleased with it. It is my daily driver and with the exception of oil changes, I've had no other issues except that stupid seat belt light . Otherwise, it has been running like a champ. I have done a few upgrades mostly bolt on DIY, but each time I get into my car I feel energized. This is not my first Porsche, I have had many since my first on in 1973.

I gotta say this post irks me too. I spent hours researching online pre-purchase, looked at several car over several months and I have had no issues with my car. Same as I do with every car I have ever purchased. So, I find it hard to feel sorry for someone that did nothing and then wonders why their used car gave them problems.

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I disagree. A PPI is whatnyou want it to be, my brother bought a higher milage P car and had a compression test etc done. Buy a 15k 12 year old high performance car and you get what you pay for, or roll the dice.

Its only 15k... who cares? Scrap it and wipe your tears.

Green is my favorite color.

To the OP, glad you had a great year of ownership with your Porsche and got a taste of of the wonderful driving experience. All things considered, and finding a potential costly issue to address, I think your experience was worth more than what it cost you. Glad you got your feet wet and didn't get hurt too bad. Your car will most likely go to auction where a lot of the dogs go and will be purchased by a small used car dealer that specializes in older cars with questionable histories. Your car was defective from the moment the case was cast. Several of the castings were found with porosity issues. Many of them were repaired with sleeves that created their own set of problems, slipping and others. It sounds like you most likely got a defective set of cases that should have been scrapped rather than salvaged. This was done to keep Porsche, at the time, the most profitable auto manufacturer in the world, at the top. Many owners suffered the fate of early motor failure, myself included.

He said he did his own PPI, if you will. No he's not a Porsche mechanic but he says he is car knowledgeable. It's not like a total car novice like me buying a car without a PPI; that would be not smart! However, as I learned even a really good PPI, from a Porsche only mechanic, doesn't necessarily tell you if you will have IMS failure (or some other problem) the next day. I personally feel much more confident turning my Infiniti M45 on every day as I always know it will start. My Porsche I hesitate every time I start it. Again, I had a major problem so am jaded. I wouldn't beat the OP up quite so hard. He's making a switch and I totally understand that. He just wanted to warn others about things they may not have thought of. In terms of his trade-in I agree he may have just knowingly turned in a problem car but, as he said two or three times, his mechanic didn't know exactly what was wrong so the OP does not know exactly AND the dealer that bought it discounted it based on the engine. Go easy people. It's a little too easy to judge on an internet message board.

SacTownGuy, I like the new avatar. As the kids would say, "gr8 pl8, noob. IH8IMS ftw. lolz." or something like that. -Eric

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I guess I'm just not sure a message board for current owners is the place to do that. Nobody is going to sell their cars because the OP had a bad experience, whereas people who are committed to keeping theirs are only going to be irritated. I'm all for learning about a car, but a lot of this kind of thing just upsets people and populates the internet with unfair, value-destroying anecdote. I think it's reasonable to expect a rough ride when you do that, and I'm marveling at how much more civilized this board is than it was a few years ago...

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Just so the record is straight, when all that was going on Porsche was near bankruptcy. The 996 helped save the company (the Cayenne finished the job). Porsche's vaunted profitability is a more recent thing, and it's a bit of a bogus statistic because it's only true on a per-unit basis. People blather on about Porsches being mass produced, but the reality is that even today Porsche produces less than a tenth the volume of BMW, and a hundredth that of Toyota. It's a tiny company. It's margins have to be huge, or it dies.

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exactly and if you cant afford to think this way over such pocket change, you have no biz owning a Porsche

Along the lines with BruceP. The notion of "warning" people as a post here seems a bit bizzare. We already own these cars, why warn us? And bottom line, most of us probably purchased used cars and as such there is inherent risk, especially if "price" is what was purchased. My C2 was a CPO car and I certainly "paid" for that, I was looking for a good example, not a great deal. Paying for a CPO removed a great deal of risk and I definitely received value for what I paid. My C4S was a private party purchase, but I searched for over a year and half, willingly paid more than I believe most think it would be worth, did as much due diligence as I could, bought out the balance of a 3rd party warranty, and considered things such as did it have proper N spec tires? Remaining life on brakes - including rotors, oil changes that were performed based on time rather than miles, basically looking for signs that the car was perhaps over maintained, there are those of us who do that. I walked away from so called "great" cars if there was any indication that the P.O. cut any corners. If one decides to not install the proper tires do I believe that one really followed the service schedule or perhaps cut some corners there because scheduled service costs some bucks? If one told me it had PSE but the photos of the dash had no PSE switch and the answer was "well it sounds really good" - sorry, I walk away. Also, bought my son a used Honda, I was skeptical, but his friends dad swore he knew the car and it was in good shape, no problems. Paid cash, kid picked it up, drove it about 20 miles and came home to tell me it wasn't running right. Turned out the motor was used up. Should I bash Honda? Would Honda have provided me with a factory rebuild on a used, private purchase, out of warranty automobile? And if they did should I continue to bash Honda? I will say that I do appreciate the liveliness and general civility of this thread.

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Thx E! I got them a couple weeks ago. I had someone come up me to last week, in a parking lot, and ask if I hated Don Imus. I believe a high percentage of readers here are people looking to buy these cars. I know I was reading for 4 years before pulling the trigger. I think this is the best place to post a warning/reminder to potential buyers. Hopefully the current owners aren't so thin skinned that they take it as a personal attack.

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Hi John - then I would assume that you were also reading here at some point during those four years. The topic of "catastrophic failures" especially the IMSB issue, has been pretty visible here during that time. I for one don't take it as a personal attack at all. Just think it gets blown way out of proportion. I know you had a horrific experience and you received a lot of support from this community. I am still impressed with what Porsche provided to you. I don't know the full story on your car, don't know what you paid, but think I read that the PO had major engine work done on your car shortly before he sold it to you, if that's true I think that would have also been a warning. I'll go back to the kid's Honda. My wife was angry with the father of my kid's friend, my kid was angry at the people who sold him "their daughters car because she moved and didn't need it", I was angry with myself for not following my own "trust but verify" rule. We rushed into a purchase, made a bad decision, and thought it was a fair deal. To my son's credit, he decided to list it on craiglist and described it as having a blown motor. At first I said wait, the car starts, runs, and shifts fine, maybe it just needs some work. The kid's answer was, "no, it feels so ****ty to get burned that I wouldn't take the chance of burning someone else". So we sold it, took the loss, and chalked it up to the cost of education. Was easier for him, it was my bucks. I sincerely hope you are driving the C4S, I mentioned to Eric that if it was me I'd be driving the **** out of it given you have a 2 year warranty from Porsche. Best Regards

Any body ever see the movie, "The Hand?"

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not sure why i'm even wasting my time replying to your ramble but what the hell - anyone who doesn't have a proper PPI performed on any car whether it has no history OR service records up the YING YANG has no right bitching and complaining about the piece of sh_t they wind up driving home . this is a tight community of seasoned porsche buyers and owners - some newbies too - many of us have experience buying a porsche the right way - some not - those that don't look like schmucks when they complain and try to fault the vehicle or it's design when they've made the mistake of not having a PPI performed - yes there are problems with the 996 as well as every other porsche model - with a proper PPI by a skilled tech, thoroughly checking for intermix in oil and in coolant, compression and leak down test, cutting oil filter to check for metal debris and a host of other important tests, the outcome is much different than your experience. 996 is a hell of a car and i miss mine that i sold earlier in the year. you sound lame especially admitting in your post that you just turned the car in to the dealer for some other sucker to get burned. i mean thats basically what you did - no weaseling out of it like you did when you sold your intermix-ridden(pardon the pun) 996 to the dealer.

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For some people 15K (even though its in USD ) is quite a bit of money to throw out the window by scrapping the car and wiping their tears. What I think the OP is more irritated over is the fact that the car (and name) didn't live up to his expectations, no matter the cost of the car. I would feel exactly the same way whether 15K is a lot or not for my sake... Anyway, JRW-910 is somewhat right in his critisism of the 996, as he was unfortunately enough to ending up with one of the few with the problems most people know about. The root of the problem is that the OP didn't do his homework well enough, and this problem could have been averted. Also having 50% of the cars value set aside for repairs etc is correct if you buy a specimen from the lower cost scale, but you can also end up having a car that will run forever costing you more or less the same as any other Japanese or even German car. So, I have spent, God knows how many months reading up on the 996. Started in June of last year doing my homework, and have a very good back-ground bases for choosing the right car. I will also wait until the right car pops up no matter how long it will take. My heart is in the right place and my head is also getting there. I will choose with my head as my heart will be there no matter what... After all its a Porsche at the end of the day

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There's the problem.

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It's not so much about it being personal as it is a concern that an innacurate picture gets painted of these cars, which both diminishes the fun of owning one (the whole point) and, potentially, depresses values. You have to expect some pushback on that stuff. Regardless of what the 'legend' may say, it has always been just as easy to buy a bad Porsche as a good one. The lesson for "potential buyers" here is, walk away from a car with no history. It's not "996s are bad cars."

Who among us doesn't have some degree of anxiety regarding engine failure?

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True. Mind you, I have some degree of anxiety about pretty much everything.

I really don't think I have any more anexiety over my 996 engine failing than any other car I've owned with 115K+ miles on it. Our Cayenne has 110K, and it could fail too. If it happens, it happens. I don't lose any sleep over it.

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This; I would say that if an unforseen expense of $5-$10K (or equivalent loss in value if the economics of fixing it don't add up) makes you borderline insolvent, you probably shouldn't be looking at high end sports cars to begin with.

No doubt about that. I certainly wasn't expecting a $4,800 repair earlier this year when my front differential needed to be rebuilt. You can't choose when this stuff will happen. Get it fixed and move on.

Although I don't lose any sleep over it, I must admit that reading about the total engine failures on this forum does take some of the enjoyment out of owning my 996. I do wish I was blissfully ignorant about the existence of IMS issues, intermix, cracked heads and so on...but sadly, I am not. There would be no way to justify a $20K fix on a $25K car. It would be a loss in my opinion. And I don't care if you are Warren Buffett or Scotty Buffett, $15K is a lot of money to have pissed away. If you really don't think that's not a lot of dough, then you have more money than sense. About 6 months ago, I had problems opening my rear deck lid since the shocks on my struts were shot and the deck lid would not pop up when the release was engaged. No way to get to my engine. One remedy I read was to push down on the deck lid while someone else pressed the button. No luck. Well, the next day, I went to start my car and there was a loud rattle coming from the engine compartment. I shut the car down and although there was no "oil gushing out" the sound was EXACTLY like rocks rolling around in a can. I called my Indy and his reply was simply, "We don't like to hear that sound". He asked me where the car was and since his shop was only 10 minutes away, he said he would be right over. Really...my mechanic was making a housecall. That will get your attention. After the longest 20 minutes of my life, he showed up and looked under the car. We were able to get the deck lid open by pulling up (not pushing down) and what he discovered was the plastic cage over the cooling fan had cracked. Remember putting a playing card in your bicycle spokes as a kid? There you go. My Indy said he could replace the whole fan if I wanted to follow him back to his shop, which he immediately put on and sent me on my way $100 later. That was the best drive I have ever had in my car. By the way, Frank Beck at Beck's European is the guy to see if you need something in AZ. Then, just yesterday, I posted about the chocolate milkshake leak I found under my car. Exactly the color that everyone described when you suspect an intermix issue. After having the car towed to Beck's, it turned out to be a leaking 3-way coolant hose to the expansion tank (and a bad cap). That drive home was the second best drive I have ever had. So, two major scares, but luckily no catastrophic failures. Nevertheless, although I have not experienced what SacTown has, or the guy who had a cracked head and traded in his 996 for a Camaro has gone through, I got a nasty taste of it. As a result of being a Rennlist addict, I was all too aware of the issues with my 996, and I am sure that if I didn't know about these problems, I would not have been overly alarmed by the broken fan cage or a leaking coolant line. But, because of this forum, I know more about this car than any car I have owned. Although I am great in a woodshop I am useless around an engine so you people are excellent at helping me understand what is going on. It might make me a bit more paranoid knowing what little I do know, but I have enjoyed this soon to be 10 year old car more than any car I have owned, and I have driven my share of shiny new BMW's, Benz's and Jag's off the lot. Sorry for the long post, but I will end with this. At the end of the day, all makes of cars have have had engines that blow up. Oh...and everyday I get to drive a Porsche 911.

Gonzo911, well said. I relate totally.

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LoL .... Nice thread for prospective buyers .... Slow in, fast out applies to buying as well as driving well

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There is a way to sleep well at night ... purchase a 993 Another bonus ... Your investment may just go up in value!

The less time you spend on here, the less worried you will be about IMS and bearing and blah blah failures! Its seriously true...

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Amen to that man! Think of it this way... it would be like spending *all day long* on a health forum reading endlessly about all sorts of fatal conditions that afflict some small percentage of the population. You would end up literally not eating anything, not leaving the house, not drinking anything and terrified to even breathe. Same concept really. Forums laser focus on and obsess over the extreme niche bad cases no matter *what* the topic is because they are a place to vent. It is also *always* assumed that the forum has the real inside line on what is actually happening to the vast majority but in reality this is rarely so. I've worked in the technology industry my whole career and I can tell you that various problems over the years that I've had involvement with were an absolute *epidemic* according to forum lore, but knowing the numbers as an insider rarely were the problems bigger than a 10-15% issue. Im on my second 996 in 10 years and the first one I put 20k daily driver miles on. I never think about any of this crap. I enjoy the hell out of driving, do regular maintenance and use common sense. Then again I had a GTR also and wasnt living in constant fear of a tranny failure, so maybe Im crazy Also, there *is* something to be said about buying something that you can *actually* afford. I disagree that for someone worth millions spending $20k on a repair is a big deal on a 911 that they love. Sorry, but it just isnt. It's a $100k car. Dont lose sight of that just because you can now buy (some) of them for $25k. Its like old Ferraris. People always complain about parts cost and restore cost on a Mondial as if it were a Civic. Its a *Ferrari*. It aint going to be cheap. You roll the dice knowing that you get to enjoy a rare world class experience that few ever will for a bargain price, but the cost of admission is that a world of hurt *is* at least possible. For anyone who cant/wont accept that there are a *ton* of viable alternatives. Vette and Mustang come to mind. Two great, fast, fun cars that are *nowhere near* the expense of a 911 to maintain as they age due to cheaper parts cost and more ubiquitous (and cheaper) labor. /soapbox

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You said it well forums are very unhealthy and I know mechanics who charge more for those who are overly well read but cannot turn a wrench. As far as driving what you can afford the key to the OPs problem Buying a Porsche versus Repairing a Porsche are two different things here in Europe an oil change for a 993 is 325 Euro at a dealer and gas is $7 a gallon roughly translated The price of a ticket is only part of the cost. If you like cars you can appreciate a Vette/Mustang or Camaro. A spec Miata takes more driving skill on a track than any of these, What I really get tired of are "false" owners of many vehicles who inflate themselves online and brag, then reality hits. This OP said he had a track car Cage and all, I called him on it and offered incentive for proof He folded Online can give you some excellent information, It will also make you fat paranoid, neurotic and be a huge waste of time.

Great post Gonzo911 I did learn alot from the forum on what to replace when work was being done on the car to make it as bullet proof as I could. I thank the forum for that. I did know I was getting into a used Porsche 911 and needed to have some money in the bank...as you do with any used car, especially one over 10 years old. Still, I am happy with the outcome and will put at least 100K more miles on this car if I can. No matter how mad I get at the situation, when I drive the car and hear the engine, see the classic lines I wanted as a kid....and the people who wonder what year the car is or if it is new.......those are the things I just enjoy about the 911. They are all classic and fun. For the money, the 996 is a pretty good deal. Also...every Porsche, every make has its issues. Personally, I love the 928...gasp

JRW, very sorry t hear about the ordeal. I think it should be pointed out that had you been lucky enough to talk to people who know these cars before purchase you would most likely be a happy owner today. The early engines, not replaced are just too risky. I bought a 99 C2 with a factory replacement engine put in 01', and I've put 100k on it and it has been flawless, no oil consumption, no failures of any kind. ( I did have the LN IMS bearing installed with the latest RMS at a clutch replacement). Many bad things happened in the rush to get the early cars out, maybe someday the whole story will be told. Good luck with the Camaro, very strong car, although I'm guessing your missing the visibility.

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Ditto. I sold my 996 not because of the nearly certain catastrophic engine failure, but because I wanted to move onto something else. But the occasional worries about a multi-thousand dollar repair did pop into my little brain every-so-often. Thanks to the OP for his post. I am a little discouraged that he did not disclose the problem to the dealer when he traded it in, but to be fair, I probably wouldn't have done it either. Especially since they seemed to diagnose it themselves. And I hate Chevy dealers (but that's another thread). I recently bought a new Panamera S, and part of the reason I bought new was because I have four years of blissful motoring ahead of me with no worries about repair costs. Oh, I've got plenty to worry about thinking about depreciation and resale, but my selling and servicing dealer has plenty of loaners and they've always treated me well. The one thing I took away from this thread is that the OP didn't get a PPI (which he should have) and even if he had, this problem likely wouldn't have gotten caught anyway.

Someone who knows cars knows that a high-milage, well-used, cheap 13-year-old Porsche is NOT a safe investment! That said, it always sucks to have a major engine failure, no matter what the circumstances. And, reading about stuff like this is a MAJOR downer!

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A 100k mile porsche is like a 10k mile camaro (or at least it SHOULD be)! jmo

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JRW, don't feel too bad I bought my 02' 996 about 5 years ago from Victory Motorcars in Houston, Tx. & I didn't have a PPI done! A couple of months later I was just grazing thru a few Porsche forums & WHOLLY CRAP, I came across one where 99% of the posts were BAD MOUTHING (& I mean BAD) Victory MC & its owner Robert Neal (I bet everybody on here has heard about them). I thought, there's No Way this is the same guy I had just bought my Porsche from (he's very charismatic & VERY knowledgeable about Porsche's partically air-cooled). Like I said its been 5 years now & I've NEVER had any issues other than just your typical minor things (last year I did put a water pump & thats been the biggest thing). I guess the Porsche Gods were looking over me that day, I flew in & looked over all his cars (most are air-cooled) & I ended up buying the 996 & driving it home to La. & have been happy every since!

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Also, people need to realise that although a 13 year-old Porsche may cost $15K, it cost five times as much, and as such was never meant to have the economy of operation of a new car purpose-built to sell for $15K.

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Really?? I didn't know that about Robert. I bought my car from him as well and he was cool as hell. The C4S I bought from him has been amazing and I couldn't be happier. Surprised to hear he has a bad rep online.

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Hey Dot, believe me I didn't have NO Idea either at the time (could you imagine after a pretty big investment (this was BEFORE they bottomed out) & then reading all this crap) I definitely thought I had messed up. But, its been a few years back & like you said he seemed to be a good guy (definitely a Good Salesman) & probably knows as much about air-cooled Porsches as anybody around. Some of them said that after the sale if they had any issues you could never get him to answer his phone or call them back. But I never had any problems, as a matter of fact mine didn't have a cig. lighter (I don't smoke) but I really wanted it for my car & sure enough he made it right & ordered me one. Anytime I've called him on his cell phone he's answered or called me back, maybe me & you just got lucky. If you want to read some of them pm me & I'll tell you which forums they were on.

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Reinforcing the idea that "there are no cheap Porsches".

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck. I think your problem is that the 99s were the worst of the bunch. A bit more internet research would have net you a wealth of info.

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Man, is there any truth to that! The more you do your homework the better off you'll be in the long run (I've got to admit though when I bought my 996 I didn't even get a PPI, hey it doesn't get much more stupid than that, but I got REAL Lucky) Not many people get that Lucky. I learned this lesson years ago when I bought a 928 (Beautiful Car & Dirt Cheap) but when something breaks on it, its not cheap by no means for the upkeep on these cars. When you have to order something for it you're still ordering things that go on a Porsche! You can even buy an older Ferrari cheap, but when you have to pay for the maintenance & upkeep on that old Ferrari, its No Longer Cheap! And thats not even talking about if you have to buy a motor for one! jmo

When you buy a 911 for $15,000 that is 11 years old--and then later sell it for $12,500--because of all sorts of bugs--that's not that bad. You should have started with something much newer. The old Porsche adage of buying the newest one you can afford really fits here. If you could only afford $15,000 you were shopping for the wrong car. You should have been looking for something much different.

Wow, I can't believe that this discussion is still going on. I do appreciate all of the comments... positive ones and negative ones... To a certain extent, I agree with most of what everyone has posted about my situation. It was my fault for not getting a PPI. Whether a PPI would have alerted me to this potential issue seems to depend on how thorough the person doing the inspection goes. I purchased a Porsche for $15k with 92k on the clock.... so I shouldn't be surprised that the car had issues. Had I done more research, I would have seen all of the potential problems related to the 3.4L Porsche engine and therefor have avoided it. Etc etc... Not that I'm really looking to drag this on further, but I'm really surprised at the lack of outrage towards Porsche from this community. These engines (3.4L and 3.6L) have major issues... from cracked heads, to cracked cylinder walls, to the famous IMS bearing failures. To the best of my knowledge, Porsche has done nothing about theses issues. Thankfully, innovative companies like LN Engineering have come to the aid of owners and provided a strong response to some of these issues. So, I have moved on ... not exactly by choice... but I did truly enjoyed my year with the 911 and might hop on a 996 Turbo at some point should the right car come along. I hope everyone else here has better luck with their cars. -JRW

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JRW, I definitely understand where you're coming from! I wasn't a Porsche Purist & didn't do as much homework as I should have (nor a PPI) but I've been VERY Lucky (at least so far) I've had mine 5+ years with NO issues bigger than replacing a water pump. But one thing that has bugged the crap out of me is the dang CEL's (ANY lil' thing & they come on & its NEVER as simple as just replacing a fuse or bulb). As for as complaining to Porsche about the issues with the 2 Big Ones, do you really think that would do any good. These threads will never end as the % of these cars that Actually have these 2 issues, like I said earlier some have been lucky & some haven't been so lucky (you were definitely the latter). Though some people buy these cars with 100k + & Never have any issues (remember they say these cars are good for 300k +) some ARE, some AREN'T! The ONLY reason I bought a 996 was the extra hp & a lil' more creature comforts, but it Definitely wasn't because of the looks (to me just a stock 996 is very average looking at best, thats why I did the things I have to mine, but some people like them JUST stock) if I do ever get another Porsche it will be either a 993 or 964 Turbo or Turbo Look! jmo

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IMO, Porsche does about as much as any other manufacturer for owners of 15 year-old products. They replaced engines when the cars were reasonably new, but now, it's in the owners' hands. The front wheel fell off a 12-year old Honda we had. What should I expect Honda to do? That injury was a write-off for that car, given its age and value. You'll be in the exact same place with your Camaro if it happens to be the 1/100 that has a unanticipated catastrophic flaw 12 years from now. My Targa has been perfect. So long as nothing catastrophic happens to me, I'll be trading it for a newer one in a year or two - because until it's real, this is all just unquantifiable internet hysteria. There's an internet community much bigger than Rennlist that is certain that the world is going to end in December. Who's right? Maybe I shouldn't worry about my cylinder walls so much.

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...and, I'll agree that Porsche doesn't have too much of an obligation on a 10+ year old car with 100k miles. But... what about the failures of lower mileage cars? Searching back, there were reports of major failures many many years ago... yet Porsche never did anything about it. What if LN Engineering and other such companies never stepped up to the plate? My hunch is that there would be MANY more failures and extremely unhappy owners. .... and let's hope that the world doesn't end in December!!! -JRW

Hang around on any marque forum long enough and you will develop a negative perspective. I base my own personal opinion on my experiences with real world owners (PCA etc.) and the 996 is a pretty reliable car.

I'm sure this has been referenced in other places on this forum: "Least Defective Vehicle of the Century" http://www.caradvice.com.au/150747/p...f-the-century/ Nothing is conclusive, but seems to give weight to the argument that other cars have worse problems, notwithstanding the poor guy who has an IMS failure.

Targatoo, thanks for that link

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It is? Great. Something else to worry about!

This is scaring me!!

I can relate. Bought mine a few months ago and nothing but problems since. I didn't have a mechanic check it out prior to sale which is on me but man...the problems I'm having are never ending...Reminds me of my 1994 Nissan 300zx TT. A great car when its running properly - which is rare.

Just want to add my two cents. A little over two years ago, I bought my 2000 C2, black on black with just basic options. I've been hunting for over a year then for the right car, my budget was about 20k and willing to finance it. Finally, after checking the usual suspects almost on a daily basis, someone posted on craigslist a 2000 C2 for 14K. Check it out the same day and made an offer pending maintenance record from a local dealership. The price was too good to be true but the economy then was still weak. Selling point for the car was that the engine was replaced back in '06 from the dealership. This really gotten me excited as the mileage for the reman engine then was about 39k miles. I didn't pay for a PPI (which I know I should have) but at least I'm a little bit familiar with the M96 engine and its issues coming from my previous 1997 Boxster. I went over the car to look for the usual suspect of oil leak, the part between transmission and engine was completely dry but the rear most part of the engine on the passenger side has a slight weep of oil (it still is up to now). The paint look tired as well as the interior but its all cosmetic. Driver side window creaks (maybe regulator, will be a next project), center console hinge broken (just recently repaired), vanity mirror cover missing (minor repair) and a couple of dashboard and headliner noises (I guess it's common and no action will be taken). Mag wheels were also littered by curb rash and have to be refinish ($60 DIY with paint and a lot of elbow grease). The engine pulls strong, the car drives straight, the brake is good and no unusual noises noted during the test drive. So, I finally bought the car with a negotiated price of 13K with 97k miles on the chassis as the maintenance record was provided. It turned out that it was a crack cylinder head was the culprit for the original engine damage and a reman engine was goodwilled for a 6 year old car with almost 60k miles on it back in 2006. So, driving around town the following day, all minor and major nuances has emerge! 1. I cannot lock/unlock the car using the keyfob, replace the battery ($6)on both keys, one completely not working and the other one barely works (no action taken as of today) 2. While replacing the keyfob battery in the Walmart parking, I noticed the front tires were all worn out from the inside, took the car right away to the tire shop to get it replaced ($350). 3. Driving about 50 miles, the check engine light came on, my heart almost burst out of my chest! Took it to a local indy with a diagnosis of a failed cat converter on the passenger side he offered Fabspeed cats for $1900 installed, I'd pass and gotten a used one for $400 after a few days. 4. After adding 25 more miles the same day, the brake indicator light lit up! Checked it out and the pads were worn down to the sensors on all 4's apparently. Took the car to the local dealesrhip where the car was usually serviced and the service advisor told me "so you were the buyer of this car! the previous owner's rep was all over us the last couple of days requesting maintenance record". Anyway, the service advisor told me that a complete brake service was recommended a few months ago but the PO refused. Dealer was charging $2200 for the brake job. I ordered online brake pads and fluid for aobut $140 then DIY the brakes. Will need to change rotors next time around. 5. Again, the very next day after I bought the car, a rattle (marble in tin can type) is being heard when parking (low rev). The sound was not consistent and only happens between 2K to 3K rpm and it's coming from the passenger side, took the exhaust can out and revealed that a baffle or two was loose, bought a used one for $200 and the noise was gone. 6. Reverse gear was very hard to engage, very embarassing while pulling from the parking lot, I thought it was only me not used to a 6 speed gear but when I went to the dealership, the service advisor told me that a transmission service was also recommended several months ago, so I did DIY transmission fluid replacement using lubro moly fluid for about $60 and cured the hard shifting reverse. Now, all of these issues happened the very next day after I bought the car. All issues resolved now except the driver window side regulator and the vanity mirror cover. Sorry for the long post but I just cannot help to say that not all of cheap 996 and non-PPI cars has a sad story to tell. PPI is still a must but given the asking price for my car back then, it was only several thousand more than a roller so I told my wife, if the engine would grenade at any given point, at least were not too much in deep money. It has been a little over two years now and the car has been trouble free(knock on wood!). I just do my regular maintenance, and I was one of the first buyers of Jake's IMS guardian as my reman engine was installed back in '06 so it might have a non-serviceable bearing. Next up for me is to replace the water pump and coolant along with a low temp themostat. I have just been very lucky with my purchase and because of the fear of the so called "death rattle", Im now a proud owner of a good running 996. I feel the PO has deceived me as the check engine light and brake sensor warning light can actually be masked for a few miles by unplugging the battery, but everything is good now, I guess, what can you expect for a 13K 996! In closing, my opinion on buying a Porsche especially a 996, it's an emotional buy and one needs to get themselves educated on what to expect on maintenance. Issues on M96 needed to be known and most importantly, how much a perspective owner can actually stomach if something catastrophic would happen. Thank you for reading!

Dang Pecto, thats some ordeal! It sounds like somebody drove the hell out of that car (I do know a few of them on here that believe you're suppose to drive them like there's no tomorrow) If they're the one paying for it I guess thats their peroggative (I just don't want to be the one that buys it when they're thru trashing it) but like you said, what can you expect for 13k! Glad you're enjoying it now. jmo

Wow....been away from the forum awhile and when I started reading this tread I couldn't believe the responsed to such a "about nothing post". You bought a lemon and traded in a lemon to the dealer and someone else will end up buying this lemon and probably will have the same ****ty experience as you did. LOL So what is the point here....a warning to all that Porsche makes an unrealiable car.....REALLY! I can't help but chuckle. One bad apple doesn't always mean that the entire barrel is bad too. Do your homework and be passionate about what you want to buy....doesn't sound like you are if you ended up trading in a Porsche for a Camaro....LOL. Enjoy your new ride.

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I drove 928's for a few years and my neighbor desided he was going to buy a "cheap" porsche. I told him "A cheap porsche will be the most costly porsche you ever buy". He bought an old 924 before he moved away and I didnt see him again for 2 years. When I saw him about 4 months ago and I asked him about the 924. He just looked at me and said "You were right on, a cheap porsche will be the most costly porsche I buy" I guess it ended up going for scrap, he got so pissed off. I got lucky I bought my 99 Aero for 16K 3 years ago with 103K miles. A very good price for an Aero at tha time. As soon as it got here it needed its fare share of things although the current owner said it was "perfect".. I put another 4K into it to make it right and the car has been, In my mind fantastic. However if I were not a DIY guy I guess It may be considered by some a problem child. But it now has 142K miles. But I like wrenching and I stick with something....This way I know what I have.. I have had my figers further up my car than I have my wife. Since 103K the car has had Horns Horn button Water pump New rotors/ pads AOS Front wheel bearing IMS bearing Clutch Charcole rejuv valve Serp belt Cruise control repaired AC recharged Rear shock replaced Front lower ball joints replaced Curretly the Keyfob doesnt work and really doesnt bother me It also needs a starter and I will get to that this winter. She has some minor Oil Leaks that I may or may not address this winter The bottom line, I think people forget how old their car is. My car was built in 98, that makes my car almost 15 years old with 140,000 miles. One of the first to roll off the line I think I think the car is doing REALLY well for the age and miles. The car HAS NEVER been to a shop for work. I do it all. It still brings a smile to my face when I stop on the right side pedal and Still get flirty Looks and conversation everywhere I go.

Just jumpin' in on this thread but it seems like the heartbreak comes from the dream of owning a 911 for Corolla money. They used to say that all Porsche's are $20k cars. Updating for performance and inflation maybe 996s are all $30k cars and a hell of a ride for that money. I bought my 86 3.2 for $18k (83k mi) in 2000 and have spent about $10K on repairs/maint since. I'm sure if I ever sell my cost/mile will be less than a Camaro. For the fun I've had and the memories I've made it will be the best car money I've ever spent You wanna play, you gotta pay