Hmm, is there a cheap reason for oil in coolant?

Hi, I just bought my 2000 Carrera Convertible, and it looks like I got screwed..... I just noticed that there is a tiny amount of oil under the coolant cap, and at the same time I needed to add about 2 quarts of coolant. Nothing like when I checked it up before I bought it. Reason I bought a 2000 was that I thought they updated the engine, to avoid cracked heads and cylinder walls. So, is there anything cheap that might have failed, or should I just drop the engine? Where do I start to find out what is wrong? The car runs perfect, no coolant in oil, no smoke whatsoever. It was a total surprise, I'm just lucky I didn't drive it until it overheated. Any advice would be very appreciated! Regards, Johan

If you can't find a external coolant leak I bet it's a cracked head. Try to look at this as your first opportunity to upgrade your car via rebuilt heads.

Check the oil via dipstick. Let's hope it's not like milkshake. I would assume if there was oil in the coolant you would be able to see the milkshake consistency through the reservoir tank. Hopefully just some slight contamination but no intermix. If you had the intermix you would definitely see it in one or the other or both mixed together not just on the buttom of the cap. Keeping fingers crossed for you..

Hi, the oil looks perfect, and the level is good. It can't use a lot of oil, I haven't added any. The coolant isn't milkshake, it's more like oil drops in it. The big issue is the loss of coolant.... Regards, Kpjam

Might be bad oil cooler seals on top of the motor. Since you just bought the car, you have no idea if they did any coolant work (replace a hose, tank, etc) that would lose coolant in the process. Check the oil like others have said, top off the coolant and drive it. Check it on a regular basis and if nothing seems to be happening, keep going.

Under the coolant cap is it dried up or is it clearly oil? What color is the coolant? And can you see the oil inside the coolant resevoir?

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If there is oil in the coolant it can get there through a variety ways. Sure it could be a cracked head, a leaking head gasket, a corroded oil/water heat exchanger and so on. There's always drop the engine option but you don't want to do this unless it is necessary. Since you just bought the car and know nothing about the car it is possible that someone just mistakenly put some oil in the coolant tank. This might have happened some time ago and the cooling system was not fully cleaned/flushed out and what you found is just a few drops of oil left over from this episode. If you want drain the coolant into a *clean* drain pan of sufficient capacity and let the coolant stand for a while. Any oil will rise to the surface. Depending upon what you find determines what you do next. Next you can drain some oil from the engine -- the easiet way is to remove the filter housing and capture some of this oil -- and have the oil analyzed looking for among other things signs of coolant (anti-freeze) in the oil. Depending upon what the oil analysis finds determines what you do next. Then you can remove the plugs and check then against each other to see if one stands out in being cleaner (or more deposited laden) than any others. What you find determines what you do next. The low coolant may not be related to the oil (suspected oil) in the coolant issue. The low coolant might be due to a cracked coolant reservior tank or a leaking coolant cap. These caps start to leak -- fail to hold pressure -- and allow some vapor to vent. Over time this can lower the coolant tank's fluid level quite a bit. I've had to add a gallon of distilled water to bring the level up to where it should be. While you have the coolant removed from the system, that would be the time to check the cooling system for leaks by applying a suitable test pressure to the system. The results of the pressure test determine what you do next. In short there are various reasonable/intelligent things you can do to determine if there is a real problem before you drop the engine. Dropping the engine just to find out the coolant had an accidental drop of oil in it and the coolant cap was leaking is an expensive exercise. Sincerely Macster.

Send a oil sample to Blackstone for testing.

I recently overhauled much of my car's engine (up to block) and cooling system. One of the discoveries I made was considerable amount of an interesting substance floating in my coolant tank (and bucket once I had drained the system). Lot's of small black flakes that looked like this. Some of them 1/4 dime sized, others the size of a pea. I thought it could be oil especially after seeing a little condensation formed into the familiar intermix coffee like substance in the AOS (which I replaced). When I would try to grab the material with my fingers to discern it's properties, it disintegrated upon contact. However while diving deeper I discovered it was material from the head gasket, which had separated over the 12 years and 75k miles on the engine. It is either sealant, paint, or glue. Not sure which. The car had the original coolant from the factory when I did this overhaul. To further the confirmation of no cracks in the head, the pressure test at the machine shop during the valve job revealed NO leaks. Blackstone analysis also revealed 0 coolant in the oil AND fortunately once I removed the head gasket I discovered exactly what it was that was in the coolant (not OIL). Just another possibility. If it is oil, chances are you are going to see more of it soon. It might be worth draining part of the coolant from the block which is not very difficult in order to examine it further. Although I have to warn that refilling the coolant is a somewhat complex process, as you do not want any air pockets in the system (a vacuum system is recommended for the refill). If you just rely on the bleeder valve you might be risking air pockets which could actually lead to a cracked head and an intermix situation.

Muck in the radiator can resemble oil globs around the cap rim. Of course if there is oil floating in the fluid then forget what I said. Possibly if its just the cap showing what look like oil then it is muck from a smuck that had the ame problem you had and tried doing a good job of sealing the cap. There was an updated cap to fix leaks. There's even a chance the tank is leaking. I don't know the particular numbers on the newer caps but it can be found here or looked up. The tank leaking is a lot more bucko's than throwing in a new cap I'd try the cap instead of possibly applying silicone grease to the rubber seal on the cap. There is a black seal in there I hope? Make sure you have the updated cap.

+1 to Pac996's comments. 04 on the cap. Take the car to a shop, they can pressure test the coolant system and test for leaks. Inexpensive and confirmation if you've got a leak somewhere in the system.

Thanks guys, I will drive it and keep an eye on the coolant level. Yesterday I took it out for a 30 minute spanking, high-reving spirited drive. Wow, it is a fast car! I am sure all the ponies are still in there. When I came back I opened the coolant cap, to have a look at what came out. It does have some oil in there, but what was strange is that coolant dropped from the front right corner on the engine! How can that be? And I am still puzzled on how there can be oil in the coolant, but no coolant in oil? And where is the coolant going, when there is no smoke? From what I have read there might be an intermix in the oil cooler, but to be honest, reading at this forum it seem like 100 % is cracked heads. It feels like the next step is to have it pressure tested. Thanks, Johan

If there is a crack in the head they will need to be removed and repaired. Then the intermix sludge cleaned out. edit: Some more qualification there of my previous statements. Pressure testing the cooling system to find leaks in that system is inexpensive (as it was mentioned might just be a cooling system leak with perhaps some inadvertent oil in the system somehow). Replacing the oil cooler is relatively inexpensive and easy (compared to pulling the heads), and so is pressure testing that unit once it is removed. Removing the heads and having them pressure tested for cracks that cause intermix is expensive and time consuming, but it has to be done if you want to keep the car. From what I've read if it is a crack in the head, your coolant will look like a sludgy coffee and very quickly. Except for the minor coolant leak, any intermix situation is a REASON to not drive the car until it is repaired. There can be a lot of collateral damage and very quickly if you keep driving it.

There are coolant lines that go to the front radiators. This is wishfull thinking since a busted head gasket is super rare and its normally the head.

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Coolant dripping from the right front corner of the car is a coolant leak probably at the radiator though a hose or even a fitting can be the source. Most often though it is a radiator. (Often times it is from corrosion that occurs from the trash that collects around the A/C condensor/radiator.) For the oil in the coolant.... have you had the oil analyzed for any presence of anti-freeze in the oil? If there is none and absent any misfires (if a head had a crack or if coolant was getting in the engine combustion chambers I'd think you'd be seeing a check engine light and misfire error codes) and if the plugs look ok like there's no signs of any coolant in the chambers (if there were the plugs in the affected cylinders would be cleaner have fewer deposits than the other plugs) then I do not believe there's an oil/coolant intermix problem. But get the coolant leak fixed at the front of the car. After the leak is fixed and before the system is refilled with fresh anti-freeze/distilled water I'd have the system pressure tested. If you fill the system the pressure has to squeeze relatively viscous water out a hole while if you test the cooling system empty all that has to escape is air. Sincerely, Macster.

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No. There is no way the oil cooler seals will cause oil/coolant intermix. Leakage, yes, but intermix, no way.

"When I came back I opened the coolant cap, to have a look at what came out. It does have some oil in there, but what was strange is that coolant dropped from the front right corner on the engine ! How can that be?" POST A PICTURE. Right front cornet of the engine faces rear on left side of car. If that is where the fluid is dripping look at the expansion tank and the water pump

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Good catch. I misread 'right front corner on engine' for 'right front corner of car'... Sincerely, Macster.

I was told by the dealer if you have an intermix problem you will know it. Warning lights and decrease in power. From what your describing it is not an intermix problem. Thats the good news. But I would still deal with your issue of the leak! Problems do not just go away and in these car the issues can be expensive. Better to fix a little problem now than a big problem later.

Oil cooler pressure test. You Tube

Wow, I will definately have a look at that cooler. Thanks! Sorry for the confusion, I do mean on the engine, to the front right in the cars forward direction. Sorry I havent posted pics yet, but e car is jacked up for H$R spring install, muffler DIY sport version and wheel replacement. Cant drive it for another few days! Thanks, Johan

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Like anything else was it coolant or just some of the normal moisture build up on the cap? You said there was none in the Oil, if it turns up in it look further. If it was moisture and not actual coolant in it. Watch all of your levels one goes up another down there is a problem. But haven't dealt with too many other then a 928S nightmare. But seen alot of cars with a oil water mixture in the fillers, PcV and lines on GM's real decieving with all the Dex cool intake issues : ( I'd would say Clean it off Pressure test the cooling system and look again. No sweet (Coolant smoke) and lotsa white puffs is a good thing. It wouldn't hurt to pull the plugs and see if any looked different or washed out. And yes some times it does take a taste test, been thru enough leaky cars might take tastes of many things to figure some out. Some times adding a Dye or the color if it does help. Like a tank of E85 in a non E85 engine and a crap load of carbon on and in everything. Could just be a fresh oil change before you bought it and it was actually complete, down to cleaning the cap. Good luck, John

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Three years ago had the same issue. Had the oil tested for Glycol and found none. Had oil in the coolant reservoir obviously. What I did first was replace the coolant reservoir and flush the entire water system with detergent (washing liquid of some kind forget the name). Also removed the radiators including center rad and had them cleaned professionally. Then replaced the water/oil cooler on top right of engine hoping this might fix the issue. Mechanic then replaced coolant 50/50 antifreeze water using the vacuum to be sure we had any and all oil out of the system. At that point, the color of the coolant was a lovely pink! After two 3 day DE sessions I noticed the brown color again. I drained a liter into a bottle and after sitting overnight it was half water & half oil! So my decision was to replace engine with reman which was then only $8,100. I never had any cooling issues but I could smell a bit of coolant coming out of the exhaust sometimes. So no I do not think there is a cheap fix for this problem. The question about continued driving involves the old engine and core exchange if you buy a new engine. If you damage the core, I understand that may cost you a bit more. Best of luck.

Being a 2000 I'd make a wager on a cracked head.. In fact I probably even know where that crack is and could spot it from 5' away. Don't be fooled into diagnostics to determine if this is a head gasket failure; because these engines crack heads well before the head gaskets blow.. we have NEVER seen a head gasket fail, even when the coolant has been super overheated. also don't be tricked into the fact that this could be the oil/coolant heat exchanger.. Most every car that comes to us with this issue has had that component swapped and the issue still occurred, because that wasn't the problem. It is what normal shops "throw at" the issue **hoping** that it solves the issue. If they knew what we do they'd just pop the cam covers and start looking for cracks. The primary mode of failure for all 2000 model year 996 and Boxsters is a cracked head- by far. Don't continue driving or running the car and get that contaminated coolant out of the system before it breaks down the rubber in the coolant hoses and creates more expensive collateral damage. I have seen times where every coolant hose needed to be replaced after an intermix had occurred; the hoses turn into mush and rupture. You could have a one off or new occurrence, but I'd put 500 bucks on the fact that you have a cracked cylinder head.

I certainly agree with Jake most Intermixes I read about are because of a cracked head near the spark plug tube. JFP over on renntech says he has seen oil coolers fail as well... but it doesn't sound as much of a problem or source of intermix.

If it wasn't a 2000 my hypothesis wouldn't be so firm.. Cracked heads are THE 2000 MY failure. This is due to the head castings. Had this car had the water pump replaced lately??

Cracked heads look similar to this;

Thanks guys, Excellent advice, as usual. I have been preparing myself for this the last few days, and actually found a few positives. I wanted to do the infamous IMS/RMS/AOS work anyway, plus that I have a few oil leaks that need to be adressed. All of this is easier with the engine out! Still, I did not want to do this before the car was even registred. It was a looong time since last someone fooled me, but the PO sure got me. There must have been a lot of work cleaning out the reservoir before my test drive.... I will keep my engine, since it runs excellent and also engines is more expensive over here. Jake, how much is a reman head from you? Or do I send in my for repair once removed? To be honest, I dont even know if there is one head per cylinder row, or one per cylinder as in the aircooled Porsches.... Jake, I have no idea about the water pump. Should I look for water pump parts stuck in the head? Thanks, Johan

Hi, With the help of Doug's excellent thread I got the idea to use an inspection camera to look for cracks in no 1 and 6 spark plug holes. Looking at the pictures of cracked heads I thought it should be fairly easy, but it wasn't.... There were a lot of oily residue in the spark plug holes, and together with the limited light and resolution on the cam it was really hard to find a crack. And, with the cam house covers on there is only a small part of the potential crack visible. I didn't spot any obvious cracks, which actually was kind of a disappointment. My biggest fear is to drop the engine just to find nothing wrong, then put it back in just to find it still intermixing.... Any thoughts? Should I look in all cylinders? Thanks, Johan

Just thought I should mention that I would have seen a crack like the one shown by fbp111 in the pic above. Johan

Post a pic of the head here and I will look for them; because I know exactly where to look. BUT a hot pressure test is often necessary to find these csarcks as some of them only show up when the cylinder head is heated. We offer this service and you should take advantage of it. Not all cracks are visible.. find the smoking gun before it goes back together or you WILL have a recurrence.

Take a look at this crack... not so easy to spot until he pressurizes the head. (I had a sick thought for a moment but will keep it to myself - you can fill in the blank...). You Tube

Thanks Jake and Logray, you are right, that crack would NOT have been visible.... Strange thing though is that I still have no coolant in oil, just oil in coolant. Is that since oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure? Meaning, would it be the other way aorund if they had pressurized the oil channel instead? I guess using a crack finder solution is the best way to find the crack once the engine is out. I'm just concerned my oil-to-coolant leak is a symptom for a tiny crack that will prove a nightmare to find.... Thanks, Johan

A crack should show up with the head under pressure. IIRC coolant doesn't mix with oil as much in these situations - it is mostly the other way around, if you send an oil sample off for analysis to a company such as Blackstone for $25 they can tell you if you have coolant in the oil. I think Napa auto parts has a supplier for oil analysis and there are other companies recommended as well.

Until the head is pressure tested it is guilty until proven innocent.

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My 2000 started making coolant disappear very gradually & a oil report showed high level of sodium in oil. This was soon after waterpump went out & temp got to 240. Sent the heads to Flat6innovations they found & repaired the crack & strenghened the cracked area. Now they are better than new.

Yep and he also attended my M96 101 Engine Rebuild School in February of 2009 :-) BTW- we just milled into a MY 2000 M96 head yesterday to repair a crack. What you see pictured below is what was found INSIDE the head casting at the area of the crack. One day people will listen to what we direct concerning elective water pump replacements with these engines. Those are water pump impeller blades. Guess what? When a water pump fails and loses even one impeller blade it MUST be found, otherwise it blocks the capillaries within the heads, leads to a localized hot spot and results in a crack. If you have a water pump failure, the WORST thing you can do is just replace the water pump... These impeller blades will make it to the cylinder head and at best its going to cost you 4,000.00 to repair, the norm is more like 7-10,000 or of course 18,000 if you play the "it can't happen to me" game. Listen folks, we see this over and over and over with cars from all around the country and world. Our record thus far is for an engine being shipped to us from Russia for our specialized services. The picture above cost 14,000 dollars. Had we not gone this deep with our repair processes the issue would have recurred almost immediately~

Did you use a year 2000 penny for emphasis?

No I think he found that in the block. LOL.

Hi again guys, I decided to drive the car for a while, just to see if it develops any more intermix problems. I still have NO coolant in oil, but do get some oil in coolant. However, now when I have driven it, allowing it to reach proper temp, it leaks both oil and coolant badly! My wife was driving it and I was behind in my truck, and I could actually SEE the coolant dripping (almost pouring) out of it. It leaks on the right side of the engine, to the front of the car. And, there is a severe oil leak in the same spot, with oil dripping on the exhaust causing a smoke screen. I know it still most likely is a cracked head, but I cant help to think that it is highly unlikely that the car devlops a cracked head and a severe oil AND coolant leak at he same time. The PO could have fooled me by cleaning the coolant tank from oil, but here is no chance in hell I would not have noticed the pouring coolant and severe oil leak. Is there really no chance there is something that could cause intermix AND a severe oil/coolant leak towards the forward right side of the engine? Thanks, Johan

Standing from behind the car, the right side (psgr) of car in the front = back right of engine. Engine is flipped around backwards. Front of engine faces the rear of the car. But yes that is the vicinity of the oil cooler mounted atop the engine, which is a known source of intermix.

Ok, just to clarify, standing behind the car, oil and water is leaking to the passenger front side of the engine. Thanks, Johan

OK, front side of the engine meaning rear of car... that is not where the oil cooler or AOS is. Those things are in the rear of the engine (toward front of car). Guesses there would be coolant hoses, spark tubes, aos breather, head gasket, aos hose. But not the AOS or oil cooler. Blind diagnosis like this is pretty pointless though. It could be the turbo encabulator for all we know until someone that is versed on sorting these things out has a look at it. Anyways I wouldn't drive it until you get it fixed, that's not very smart to do. Your engine can hydrolock and go boom in very little time with intermix. Then you are looking at $10,000-$15,000 repair job or more.

Sorry, Dont know why I cant get this right. The leaks are from the engine, on the passenger side, in the forward direction of the car.... It is not all the way over to the wheel on the passenger side, it is maybe 8-10" from the center of the engine. Johan

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"I know it still most likely is a cracked head, but I cant help to think that it is highly unlikely that the car devlops a cracked head and a severe oil AND coolant leak at he same time." Why unlikely? More like likely. The head has both coolant and oil passages in it and a crack may not confine itself to just one passage or the other. Whatever the cause of the fluid loss/intermix is you should avoid driving the car any more and have the car looked at by a qualified professional. These types of things do not get better on their own and by continuing to drive the car with this frankly serious of a problem -- even though the engine appears to run sans any real troubling symptoms -- can only make a bad situation worse, maybe to the point the engine is ruined. Sincerely, Macster.

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Ok well that is closer to where the oil cooler is so that is still a possibility. But honestly without looking at the car this is like playing hangman without being able to look at the letters. Take Macster's advice and have it looked at. If you ignore it you could be looking at total disaster. If you are lucky it is just the oil cooler or AOS and after a thorough cleaning of the coolant system, some fresh coolant and water and you are on your way (still not an inexpensive process). If you are not as lucky it is a cracked head, which is certainly repairable these days for less than the cost a replacement engine. If you keep driving it and ignore it it will undoubtedly become a replacement engine, and possibly other components of the system.

Yes, I am dropping it off at a friends performance shop early this week. I have only driven it 50 miles in this condition. I thought I had mentioned that I registred it last week, and it passed the vehicle inspection with flying colors. The exhaust values were so good, actually zero pollution, so he had to try the other pipe too. He thought the machine was broken! Then he got the HC value up to 3, and it has to be under 100 to pass.... Macster, so you mean that the cracked head could cause an exterior oil and coolant leak as well? I did not think of that. Where should I look? It seems like it is time for pictures.... Thanks, Johan

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If a crack accounts for both the coolant and oil leak the crack may be located on the surface of the head the surface the bolts to the block. Thus the crack would not be visible until the head is removed and cleaned up and maybe even some crack highlighting chemical treatment used to well highlight that is make the crack stand out. Some cracks are quite tiny in that while the crack may run for a good fraction of an inch the crack's width is literally a hair width (or less) wide and barely visible to a naked eye and then only to one experienced in knowing where to look and how closely one needs to look. In this case of the crack being located in this area of the head, the leak arises because the crack allows the coolant and oil to exert their pressure closer to the edge of the gasket and the gasket simply can't hold these fluids back. There is also the possibilty the oil leak and coolant leak are unrelated. The oil leak is from a camshaft cover, spark plug tube, or some other 'external' source while the coolant leak is coming from a head gasket leak (possibly from a cracked head) or simply due to premature failure of the head gasket. Or the gasket can be leaking due to assembly problems. The head was not torqued down properly or the head or block surface was scratched/nicked during assembly or the gasket compromised during assembly. The odds of this being the case though drop off greatly as the miles accumulate simply because if the head is not bolted to the engine properly it makes this known sooner rather than later. Sort of related, but when I had my Boxster in for a VarioCam solenoid/actuator R&R the tech reported finding one of the bolts of one of the camshaft holddowns (I can't recall if the bolt head was a hex or Torx type) nearly stripped, rounded. The tech managed to get the tool bit to bite well enough to remove the bolt (and thankfully the bolt didn't snap). Now, I bought the car new and the engine has never been touched so the only time this could have happened was when the engine was being assembled at the factory. Now admittedly the bolt with the nearly stripped head hadn't caused any problems in all the miles I've put on the engine but no fluid/gasket seal was involved. Had this head been the head of a head bolt... My engine might have developed a head gasket leak over time. Sincerely, Macster.

Hi again, I had a hunch the other day, efter re-reading the Carfax. Waiting for my friends two-pole lift to get availible, I decided to check the engine number today, and it turns out I have a replacement engine! The code is M96/04AT66165251. Looking at that number, and the threads about engines, I figure it is a replacement M96/04 manufactured in 2001. However, looking at the carfax, the engine was removed for repair in april 2004, at 60 k miles! Could the engine have been manufactured in 2001, and stored until 2004? Or, could it have been replaced earlier, and removed once more for repair? It had a major service in December 2002 as well, at 37000 miles. But on the other hand, I guess Porsche doesn't report the engine replacement to Carfax for a reason.... So, does this change the possibility that my engine has a cracked head? Were the heads improved in 2001, so it is less likely I have a cracked head? Any thoghts would be very appreciated.... Thanks, Johan

Nope, cracked head can affect any 996, but mostly 1999-2001 cars & engines we hear about. Heads were updated for the 2002 cars w/3.6L to include variocam plus system. If you have a 3.4L it most certainly does not have a variocam plus head. Yes I believe their engines can sit around in a crate for years...

Ok, too bad, I would have guessed they somehoe updated it. I can't believe only 55 k miles can ruin an engine.... Also, I think my water pump might have been changed, if that is the part located just above the sump plate towards the rear of the car? Might mean it is debris from the pump that have caused this. Interestingly the coolant system have been flushed and refilled at least twice according to the Carfax.... Thanks, Johan

Yep, pretty much the heads get too hot and crack. As for the H20 pump yes if a pump impeller breaks off and clogs a coolant passage that can be the primary cause for localized overheating in the engine and cracks in the aluminum leading to oil mixing with coolant.

Yes there is a "cheap" reason for oil in the coolant. It is because Porsche got cheap on some of the design, engineering and manufacturing on these engines.

Cheap answer maybe air oil seperator screwy with a second problem of a leaking seal where you see oil coming down. Expensive somebody played rev before oil and engine at operating temp and or too much oil in the system if that effects these cars. You should have an answer from the mechanics some time soo and we are all waiting for the answer.

So, I finally took my time to get some pictures of the leak: Just to clarify, all references to where the leaks are on the engine is based on the forward direction of the car, nothing else. Oil leak, it is dark under there, sorry about that, but it leaks so there are drops on the right side of the engine, mostly towards the front: DSC07863.jpg DSC07864.jpg Coolant leak, seems to drip from a few places, which to me indicate that the leak is fairly high up on the engine. Most is dripping on the forward right side, but also on the rear right side. You can actually see the dripping! It's nowhere near the coolant tank. DSC07970.jpg This is how a cloth looks after I have used it to dry the bottom of the coolant tank: DSC07973.jpg And this is a picture of the fluid inside the coolant tank. If you look closely you can see some oil drops in there. Reason the fluid is brown is because it is just water, since I only replace it with ordinary water. It would be too unfriendly to the environment (and my wallet) to use coolant when I have to refill a quart every 10 miles.... DSC07974.jpg Finally a picture of the engine number: DSC07954.jpg Logray, I know I am hoping too much, but when looking around at the Porsche forums, it seems to me that 95 % of the cars with intermix is 1999-2000 models. The last 5 % is evenly spread between 2001-2004. Am I dead wrong (has happened before) or is there some updates to the M96/04 engine type? I'm still waiting for my turn at my friends performance shop. I do hope I can get the car there this week, to try and fix the coolant/oil leak, and after that do a pressure test. It feels like the diagnosis is really hard when the coolant is pouring out of the engine. Thanks, Johan

Stop driving that car! Until you know for certain and can get it to the shop.

Seriously don't drive the car until it is diagnosed. Your car has a 3.4L engine, therefore it is especially prone to cracked heads. Yes not as common with later engines, usually those would be due to a coolant passage getting blocked or overheated, but it certainly is possible. The fact is pretty much any car can suffer intermix for a variety of reasons. It looks like you have a lot of oil leaks to address too. If you keep driving it will only drive the dagger in deeper. And deeper and deeper and deeper.

No, I am not driving it, just around the block now to show you guys the leaks. But it is drivable, if I had coolant in oil I would not even start it, but as long as it not overheats I don't see a problem driving it. My problem is to get a diagnosis, since I don't want to remove it just to find nothing, then put it back in and get intermix again..... I'll get back when I have it on the lift. Thanks, Johan

The petroleum in the coolant is eating the rubber radiator and other hoses in the system alive. I have had several people do this and the car wstarted popping hoses like mad. The hooter the petroleum filled coolant gets the more it attacks the hoses and even the heater core. You don't want to know how much labor it costs to replace every hose in the system. Wait till the heater core ruptures and intermix fills the dash vents. Seen it all fellas, please don't drive the car to death. If you have leaks starting then it sounds like your hoses are already starting to hate life; the leaks start where the hoses slip tightly over inlets and outlets.

Hi, I put the car on jack stands today, and it will stay there until either the intermix is fixed, or the engine is removed. I decided to go after the few things I could do inexpensively, doing the work myself. That is replacing the AOS and remove the oil cooler for pressure testing. That is two things I need done anyway, even if I end up buying another engine for the car. I would never put in an engine without a new AOS and tested oil cooler with new seals. I started by draining the engine from coolant, or water to be more precise. There is nooooo anti-freeze in there. It looks worse than it is, at least I think so. I left it there over night, so the oil could separate from the water. There is maybe 1 oz. of oil in there, rest is just water. There is no foaming or chemical reaction like the one Dharn55 mentioned in his intermix. Inside of the coolant tank looked like this: DSC07996.jpg Is that what I can expect from the rest of the cooling system too? Regards, Johan

That looks bad. I would be surprised if the oil cooler caused this. If it's not a crack in the head, it would be a miracle. Yes. The entire 6 miles and 6 gallons of hoses and radiators and heater core has to be removed and cleaned and/or flushed out.

Not nearly as bad as mine was. I would drain the oil and take a look at it. Mine was like a chocolate shake and when drained there was visible green coolant that would float to the top. The only things I did not take off and clean were the heater core and the hoses leading to it.

The heat exchanger is always what people go to first.. The multitude of cars that come to us "in a box" after other shops give up on them have had the heat exchanger replaced.. Thats a sucky job and isn't cheap. I have never had one of those scenarios play out to actually be the heat exchanger.. The same goes with head gaskets that NEVER blow. Fact is the cylinder heads are weaker than the heat exchanger or head gaskets. Thats heavy intermix.. Very heavy and its kiling your coolant hoses as this post is being read.

Hi, Today I had the time to dive into the engine work again. Once again I am very impressed with how simple the car is to work with, especially with the help of this forum. I'm all the way in to the AOS with under 3 hours of work, and with an additional 45 minutes I succesfully removed the oil cooler. You would not belive that, looking under the engine lid.... Anyway, I quickly noticed the main cause to my coolant leak: DSC08056.jpg There was a severe crack in the coolant hose from the tank to the top of the oil cooler! Impossible to see without removing the intake. Jake, is this what you were expecting in regards to hoses breaking from the intermix? The hose is all sticky and feels more flexible than it should. The oil cooler itself was easy to remove, and it looked terrible! DSC08054.jpg I'm pretty sure coolant was leaking from the o-rings too, who actually looked more like flat gaskets. They are very very dry, and looked horrible: DSC08057.jpg There is a large amount of oil on top of the engine, mostly around the oil filler tube and the oil cooler. There is a severe oil leak where oil is dripping (or pouring) down the engine block just beneath the oil cooler. Theses two things make me pretty sure that the o-rings for the oil was leaking too. Unfortunately, I could not see any obvious signs of intermix over the o-rings: DSC08064.jpg I am taking the cooler over to the Porsche shop tomorrow, and let them pressure test it, just to be safe. I do hope the cooler is the reason for the intermix, but I am realistic about the heads being the root cause. Is 4 bar enough to pressure test an oil cooler? They claimed so, but I would have thought oil pressure up to 7-8 bar is possible? The AOS looked really good, but I am replacing it anyway while I'm in there. There was no obvious signs of either oil or coolant leaking from it. Any thoughs? Regards, Johan

Btw, if anyone has the o-ring sizes, please let me know! I am guessing Porsche doesnt have hem in stock. In millimeter, preferably... Johan

Certainly Porsche has them in stock. qty 2 99970740940 26mm X 3mm qty 2 99970738940 35mm X 4mm

That hose is just a sample of what happens when an engine is ran with intermix in the system... It attacks the hoses fast.

I got an interesting voice mail earlier today; the Porsche dealership Service Manager said that they had tested my oil cooler, and it was leaking like nothing they've seen before. Unfortunately they closed before I could return their call, so I couldn't confirm it was the actual cooler or just the gaskets that was leaking. I am cautiosly optimistic, since he asked if I wanted them to order a new cooler. But, it still sounds to good to be true, so I'm waiting with the champange until can get it confirmed.... Thanks, Johan

Hope that the cause is really the cooler

Sounds like you might have gotten seriously lucky... If thats what it really is I suggest that you immediately buy a couple hundred bucks worth of lottery tickets...

Hi, now I've talked to the dealership, and apparently I am on plus Karma-wise.... They say that the oil cooler leaks severely both internally and from the gaskets. Of course they can't rule out that there is a problem with the heads too, but it seems unlikely. On a note they say that to them it seems like the oil cooler often isn't tested properly when trying to diagnose intermix. They have built a really clever test rig, that allow them to test it with the o-rings, fastened like it is on the engine. They can test oil and coolant passages independently, testing every possibility for leaks. Also, they can test with pressure up to the max of their compressor, around 10 bars. That is very important since many coolers are tight up to a few bars pressure. I find it very interesting that they claim to have replaced more oil coolers than diagnosed cracked cylinders and heads. Looking at this web site it looks like 50 % cracked cylinders, 49 % cracked heads, and 1 % leaking oil coolers. And I am that 1 %.... I'm just saying, if you have intermix, make sure they pressure test the oil cooler properly before you replace the engine! Unfortunately I am going back to the US for a month now, so I won't be able to put the car back together until I'm back here. Be sure I will post an update when it is running again! And please keep your fingers crossed for me. I asked them to keep the cooler for me, and when I am back I'll go by a metal work shop and ask them to cut it in half for me. The porsche tech said the leak most likely is too small to see, but I want to see the internals anyway. I'll be back! Thanks, Johan

Every car that we see with intermix that has been delivered here from another shop has the heat exchanger replaced.. Not once, not ever has it been the root of the intermix issue. You are that lucky. Exceptions to the rule always occur, but don't get your hopes up until they have cleaned the entire system and you have driven 500 perfect miles with zero mysterious oil or coolant loss with zero signs of intermix. We also have a device that we made for testing the heat exchangers; your dealership must be outstanding because generally at that level unless the book tells someone exactly what to do they can't do it... Most have to have the book do their thinking for them, because in technical school all they are selected from is how well they perform on written tests...

We also heard of user Sumflow replacing his 97 986 "oil heater" last month which apparently corrected his intermix issue... and I think that he has put plenty of clean miles since.

you should ck the oil seperator i can help if you are in the ny area . [email removed]

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From moderator "RFM" via http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...ost__p__210285 "Oil in the coolant from a broken AOS is not possible cause lack of pressure on the oil, there is only a thick oil mist present inside the AOS where by a swirl motion and some obstacles, air and residual oil becoming separated, the air goes in to the intake manifold, the residual oil drips in a natural way in to the sump. Coolant in the oil could be theoretical possible for 996 AOS since they are heated on top by the coolant, but i've never seen that phenomenon. "

"You may not be looking for the promised land...but, you might find it any way" James Brown ~ Living in America

Hi, I finally put the last things together today, and the car started right up, no noises, no smoke! It became quite a big job, since I replaced the AOS, oil cooler, oil pressure sender, intake gaskets, a couple of coolant hoses and of course the oil filler tube. It seemed to run as good as before, let us just hope the oil in coolant is gone. Even though the dealership diagnosed the oil cooler I am not entirely sure. It still sounds too good to be true.... I will get back with more info once I have put a few hundred miles on it! Oh, one strange thing; the heater didnt work. We had 37 degrees F here today, and ven though the engine temperature went up to 200 degrees, it did not blow warm from the ventilation. Any thoughts from you guys? Thanks, Johan

The heater isn't working because the intermixed oil and coolant has blocked the heater core or some component of it. This is very common. You have more cleaning to do.

Do you think those hoses are halfway eaten through at this point? Or maybe just 45%... I bet a 5'er every last mile of hose and hard lines have a nice coffee colored goo residue lurking inside.

Sounds like another example of why the 996 is to be admired in the garage and not driven. Seriously, sorry to hear that on a 2000.

This worked for me to clean intermix mess .I used my shop vac(wet mode) to evacuate all the lines .The heater was really plugged -disconnected both in and out and then attached the vac.Final cleaning was Prestone super flush -2 cans and ran car for 4 days .Did this twice .That was 5000 miles ago and system is pristine .

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This is sarcasm right?

This guy has Krazy in his name for a reason... he was over in an IMS thread causing a mess too...

I think Ferdinand(the RLer not Porsche) said it best: "KrazyK --- you crazy".

I just stopped at the grocery store tonight for distilled water. Another good reason to keep an eye under the hood before the coolant warning light comes on when you start a trip. Darn tank must be stained so from now on I'l check coolant level more carefully and possibly be opening it up to check before cold starting to be sure it's good. Worked out OK though. Topped off with water at the grocery store and they had teddy bears for sale so I found a gift to give at the xmas party tomorrow. Got some santa hats too so that's good for cruising.

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Only drive the car with an inch thick coating of wax on it

Crud !!!!! Driving the car after topping off with water I'm starting to get more and more oil in the water. Not much in the oil but it's probably slowly mixing in.

Got it back from the shop today, but they did not manage to fill it with the vacuum filler. I am not sure why. Anyway, they used the oldfasioned method of raising the front. And then the back, and so on. Still no heat, though. Could it be air bubbles? I guess I have to start a new thread on heater core cleaning.... Pac, sorry to hear, make sure to check that up asap! Thanks, Johan

Hi Johan, Good to hear that the cooler was the cause of the intermix Have you check the procedure how to remove air from the cooling system?? It's quite complicated for these cars.

Hi Speed, no, I have not. I was hoping the shop could, but no.... Any suggestions? Johan

Johan, Download the servicemanual from http://www.cannell.co.uk/Manuals.htm Engine 1 to 15 page 263. There is the right procedure

Thanks jsoderbe. Thursday it goes into the dealer who always does good work. Service manager is excellent in Honolulu and I'm sure they know how to burp the cooling. Plan is if its the same as yours they are going to flush the oil and cooling good then it will be back to good business.

Bump for an update on this? How many miles since oil cooler swap? Has the intermix shown back up? Hope you are still going strong!

Yes, still going strong. I drove it for 2000 miles, had an occational oil drop in the water but no where near the previous amounts. I didnt clean it properly to be honest. But, I had all different kinds of problems with that car. It felt like there was another problem each time I started it. After fixing everything that can break on the top (including the plastic window) I was just fed up with it. Car was then sold under full disclosure with 6 months warranty. I still have my 2001 GT3 look convertible though. Regards, Johan

Sorry, it is really hard to recommend what to do. I removed my oil cooler myself, which is a lot of work. I replaced the AOS at the same time, which made sense since the intake has to be removed anyway. If you have warranty I should drive it to the dealer. The people on this board with cracked heads had tons of oil in coolant, making it into pudding. And, they had water in oil too. I had neither, and it seems like you dont either. That is a good sign. But to be honest the oil cooler is t exactly cheap either. I think you are looking at 1500-2000 USD at the dealer. Regards, Johan

Replaced the oil cooler, problem solved. See image attached

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Noelguillermo, what were the symptoms of your oil cooler failure? Can you describe more what you were experiencing? How difficult was it to change out the oil cooler?

Is that a crack in the cooler?

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Now that I look closely, it sure looks like there is a tiny crack between the two sides.