156 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHSad day... Oil under the car...
Leading reported evidence
Check filter
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions
Read evidence and context
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Leading evidence: 'Check filter' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'imsb or rms' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check any metal' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The OP stated he has checked the skip plate before and it hs been clean, and that now "there is oil residue all over the transmission" and "under the car".
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I also installed the magnetic drain plug from Pelican Parts.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
My city of half a million people, no IMS have failed and been repaired through Porsche or the top artisan agents.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
He has a pretty thankless job preaching to the perverted here, but he has changed 1 mind and saved 1 more M96.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The OP stated he has checked the skip plate before and it hs been clean, and that now "there is oil residue all over the transmission" and "under the car".
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Suggestion
When I did my clutch I inspected my rear main seal which wasn't leaking but replaced it anyways since I had the part and would only add and extra few minutes to the job.
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Suspected cause
If you don't like my posts, then that's your prerogative, but all I'm doing here is injecting that we do not have enough information for a diagnosis and that anyone that jumps to the conclusion of an IMS issue is jumping the gun.
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Suspected cause
If you don't find ferrous metal, its probably the RMS and if it were me, I would plan on replacing the clutch, IMSB, possibly flywheel if its bad, in the near future.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
156 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
2 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Get an idea of how quickly it's leaking - the guidance I was always given was that a little weeping is not a big deal and you have it fixed next time you have to have work done down there.
Hey guys,
I found oil under my car for the first time. Needless to say, my pocket felt lighter right off the bat.
I posted up how I wanted to do a clutch and flywheel last year but decided to put it off until now, since I have to now.
I have an engine skid plate and have inspected it from time to time but found it to be seemingly clean. Didn't inspect good enough because there was oil residue all over the transmission.
Anyways, since I'm at it, I figure there is a laundry list of things to do.
AOS
Clutch
Flywheel
RMS Seal
IMS Retrofit
Clutch Slave Cylinder
Clutch Arm
Spark Plugs
Anything else anyone can recommend? Its a 2002 c2 and I got about 95k of flawless ownership.
Also, what is the average price I should pay for an indy shop to do this?
I think I want to tackle this project myself and have done transmissions a couple times on other cars.
I also was thinking about going with an AASCO LTW flywheel if it needs to be replaced. Do you guys think my flywheel will be okay? The clutch has never been changed and is not raced around too often
I have access to a lift for a day on a weekend, maybe can stretch it out to two, like a Saturday and Sunday.
What's everyone's thoughts on this?
I'm located in southern california, Orange County to be exact. Have a shop I can use in Anaheim. Anyone want to help me?
Check out Cape Auto Repair at the 5 Fwy and Crown Valley. High quality work and very fair pricing. I service both my 993 and 996 there. I also have them do all the work on my E55 and Navigator. Great service and great people.
I would figure out where the oil is coming from before jumping to conclusions. Could be something as simple as a leaky cam cover, which if it just drips a little, is no big deal, something you can live with. Or it could be leaky spark plug tubes or the cam position sensor, both of which are easy DIY fixes.
But if there is oil coming from the junction between the tranny and motor, then its probably the IMSB or RMS.
Phillip
Only one place to go in the OC for knowledgeable Porsche independant service. Greg Brown of
Precision Motorwerks
930 E. Orangethorpe in Fullerton. I've known Greg for over 30 years. He helped me with advice and knowledge with my first 911 a '66 which I rebuilt myself. He has been a personal friend and mentor ever since, even though I haven't lived in the OC for 20 years. When I have questions he has the answers.
I just did the a Sachs "motorsport" clutch, LN bearing upgrade, and an AASCO single mass flywheel on my 2000 Carerra over Christmas holiday. It is noisy once the tranny fluid comes up to temperature, but you will immediately notice the change. The engine revs just like you would expect it to after removing that lump of a stock flywheel. The clutch seems much smoother too, although you have to be careful when matching revs as there is a lot less inertia in the driveline now and the engine speed change is immediate. I had to relearn the technique. I am very satisfied with the new setup.
Do not start the car until you confirm that the IMS is not solely to blame. All too often people see this and don't realize that the IMS bearing generally fails on shutdown when engine speed slows enough to allow the center stud to shear. If this has happened one start up could be very expensive.
Approach with care and know that this exact same situation occurs over and over again.. Right now you probably haven't experienced a catastrophe.
You have to approach this from a worst case scenario, and hope that it isn't.
Wow! Scaremongering much? Jump to the extreme conclusion with only a vague description and no photos? What's wrong, is business light and you need to drum up some more? Honestly, a more calm and rational approach is more called for!
Unlike some would like the OP to believe, an IMS failure is NOT lurking around the corner to get every 996.
Think what you wish. I was merely stating that the OP should take this seriously and he might just save a lot of money, because others have and some others haven't.
A sudden release of a significant amount of oil from an engine that is not running and has no oil pressure is not normal. The RMS will not do this, as all RMS leaks are heavily dependent upon splash oiling that is created by a running engine.
Guilty until proven innocent~
So where in the OP did it say significant amount of oil or sudden release? Also, where did it say sudden? All the OP said was that he periodically watches and now there's an oil residue when there wasn't previously. As I said, I think you're jumping to conclusions and scaremongering.
All the OP said was "oil residue" - that can mean anything for any of the reasons listed in previous posts. My car is currently in the shop for replacement spark plug tubes and that also resulted in "oil residue" all over the transmission.
The correct path is to determine where, when, and how the oil appeared and the severity - none of that has been established yet. I'm sure you love sounding the IMS horn, but really Jake, not all oil leaks are IMS, you really need to chill a little.
Hey, if I'm wrong, let me know where I've missed a key fact, but as far as I can tell you jumped the gun so far that the trigger hasn't even been pulled yet.
Ordinarily, I wouldn't say anything, but this is not the first time you've done it. You're always fast to see IMS ghosts where there are none and it unnecessarily causes panic.
I have my first weep of oil at the bottom of the trans belll housing. I ordered a new filter and a magnetic oil drain plug. Today I replaced the filter, cut the old one apart to inspect it and found no metal pieces at all which made me feel better. I took a sample to send off to Blackstone, half the bottle from the filter casing and the other half from changing the drain plug. Yes it's a cold sample and not the preferred method of taking a sample but I just want to know what they find in it out of the ordinary if anything. Tomorrow i'm gonna put in blue devil rear main sealer and go drive for a spell to work it around, then drive again the following day and monitor for any more weeping. No noises or difference has been noted prior to the weep and a clean filter. She drives smooth as silk so i'm optomistic it could just be a worn out RMS.
Both IMS and RMS have tell-tell locations for a leak - search for them and you'll see photos. As i said before, a little oil does not mean the end of the world, you just need to ask a few questions, do some research and figure out the problem - posting photos and giving information will always get you some enlightenment.
It's not the end of the world for me by any means, just a caution flag put up. I've been reading all I can to include looking at pics. No leak anywhere except a little weep at the bottom of the bell housing. Everywhere else is dry as a bone. Whether It's IMS or RMS for me leaking wouldn't I have to remove the tranny and clutch to visually inspect the IMS and RMS? That's at least what I can tell from all the reading and pics.
Jake I don't know if my sistuation is similar to the OP, but your advice is always welcome to me. Anything else I should/can do short of having tranny removed for inspection? Thanks!
Hey, if it makes you ask a few questions next time instead of jumping the gun, then my work is done. You do have some valuable insight, but like Joseph McCarthy you see shadows where there are none.
Asking a few diagnostic questions is far more valuable then jumping in with a snap scaremongering assumption. You said, "I'm done" and walk away with no apology for jumping to conclusions and not trying to actually figure out what's going on? What kind of help is that? Be useful to the OP and help diagnose, rather than slinking away when someone called you for jumping to conclusions without adequate data.
This was the most sensible posting in the thread.
...and this told you it probably wasn't the IMS or RMS, but more likely spark plug tubes, leaking cab cover seal, or even leaking PCV valve. The leaking cam shaft cover is highly unlikely, the other two possibilities are not a big deal and easily fixed if you decide that you cannot tolerate a minor and annoying oil drip.
Ahhhhh, I miss this forum, reminds of the day when IMS was at its infancy and now it is a full grown. I cant wait for the next "IMS" maybe when the 996 is 20 years old the m96 will show another Achilles heel... but for now, its good to have options. Drive it like you stole it.... all will be good.
If you are sure the leak is from the bell housing, then take out the oil filter and check for for any metal that sticks to a magnet. If you find any significant amount, then pull the sump plate and see whats in there. If there is any ferrous metal,I wouldn't start the motor again without further investigation.
If you don't find ferrous metal, its probably the RMS and if it were me, I would plan on replacing the clutch, IMSB, possibly flywheel if its bad, in the near future.
Wow the man most capable of helping the OP of this thread through a potentially devastating problem that he is looking for advice on how to proceed. You make false accusations indicating this man is purely interested in his own personal gain when the OP has already stated he intends to fix the car himself or take it to a independent shop in CA where he lives. So Jake Raby has no chance at the labor & since he no longer distributes the IMSB the OP planned to install eventually anyway exactlly what is the ulterior motive? Maybe he is trying to remember why he pays to be a sponser on this forum? You owe the OP of this thread an apology for convincing the #1 man in the world most capable of helping him that it is not worth wasting his time on. How much longer will Jake Raby continue to risk offering invaluable information for free to those that need it?
If you are doing an IMS Bearing you can make your own tool, thats what I did.
I just did very similar maint to my C4S. Clutch started slipping so I got my local porsche dealership to drop off a new oem sachs clutch kit, pilot bearing, throwout bearing guide tube, pressure plate bolts, flywheel bolts, rear main seal, IMS Bearing, associated hardware for the IMS bearing.
I went OEM Porsche for everything because I wanted to have it finished same day, so I wasn't able to wait around for am LN retrofit etc. My buddy and I got it into the shop on Saturday night. I have never pulled a tranny on a porsche, but my buddy and I reviewed the diagrams and instructions on Mitchell, AllData, and Porsche before starting. Having a lift was quite beneficial, we had every thing pulled and cleaned in under 3 hours. Ended up the fly wheel was in good shape so no need for replacement right now, then reassembled it monday morning right after Porsche delivered my parts in another few hours.
It is very strait forward, basically remove anything attached or in the way of the transmission, unbolt, drop tranny, replace parts and reassemble the reverse of the removal. The same basic concepts hold true with a tranny and clutch R & R for every manual car, if it is a honda civic, a Nissan 240, a heavy duty ford truck etc.
Jake's advice on not to start the engine without further diagnosis is valuable - but I also see "Well Ard's" point that there are other potential causes here are may not be IMS. The posters that suggested we need some pictures and advice on checking oil/filter for metal are good. If it was me - and I was close to needing new clutch anyway - I would probably flat bed the car to an Indie for expert opinion and do the IMS while I was in there anyway. Guy's let's try to keep it civil ! My '02 has RMS leak in 2006 - and the seal was replaced by dealer under warranty. No leaks since then. No new IMS either. But $500 for IMSB is still cheap insurance compared to new engine if you are going to do the clutch / seal anyway. To keep it in perspective - I'm sure ~95% our cars are still out there running fine on original IMS. As far as I can tell from this BBS (and also looking at various IMSB removed by local Indie), cars that had spent extended time in storage and/or lack of regular oil changes seem to be more prone to the problem. I'd like to see an analysis of all the IMSB's removed and service/mileage history of the cars that are showing the most bearing wear - that might be valuable data to look at - on the other hand it might not show us anything conclusive either. Until the the debate will continue
Wow didn't think that this thread was going to turn into this haha!
Well I will take pictures tomorrow morning and post when I get home. Hopefully this will shine some light on the problem. I am also going to drain the oil and do an oil change. I will see if there is any ferrous material in the filter.
Jake: I have an IMS Guardian installed. It has not alerted or changed in anyway.
So for those of you who are curious, we will see if I do have an IMS problem and if the IMS Guardian detected it.
Damn, you have a Guardian!? Jake, I sure hope your hunch is wrong!!!
Philip, best of luck with the car. I'm sure the leak is a very minor issue. Don't believe the hype!!!
I owe no apology. Yes, I have a great deal of respect of Jake's capabilities, but in this particular case he stepped in and jumped to an extreme conclusion without stopping to gather data and on only a vague description - it was a failure of critical thinking on Jake's part and jumping to a conclusion. If he had come in and asked questions and gathered data, then he would have been helping, but in this case he did not and immediately "diagnosed" IMS failure - it was laughable.
Guys, I have to say I don't see where Jake has labeled this as an IMS catastrophe. He states that it could be, but that is kind of like saying that there may be a tornado heading someones direction so take cover. I think Jake is taking the right approach and not necessarily creating fear but telling the OP that he should act as if this is worst case scenario in preparation for what could be an IMS failure situation.
I myself would rather be overly cautious in this situation and think the worst but hope for the best.
Does the Tornado alarmist in your scenario also build Tornado shelters???
Really??? What are the odds of this guy's **** blowing upon start-up??? I have never heard of this, have you?
I think the term alarmist is giving Jake the benefit of the doubt...
In my case I have not started my car since noticing the oil weep. First thing I did was order a new oil filter and when it arrived I removed the old one to inspect for metal fragments. There were ZERO metal pieces, not one at all which I was very happy to see. I also installed the magnetic drain plug from Pelican Parts. I took an oil sample to send off to Blackstone even though it is a cold sample half from the filter housing and half from changing the drain plug out. The car had a new porsche clutch kit installed exactly a year ago right before I purchased the car and the RMS was most likely not replaced at that time, some say if it isn't leaking leave it alone. My car has 116437 miles on her and drives like a dream........though now I've something to closely monitor. I'm not in panic mode, just another day of sweet porsche ownership which I wouldn't change one bit, I love my cars.
You could get on of those kits, they are cheap and are great at finding leaks, you can add it to any liquid in the car, maybe not fuel.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110449458849...84.m1423.l2649
Obviously some of us here have reading comprehension challenges, could you help us out by highlighting the part in Jakes post where he "diagnosed" IMS failure??
BTW, for all those cowering in IMS fear - I had my car serviced this morning - fixed a small leak on a spark plug tube and got the message that my 12 year old (74,000 mile) car is in amazing condition - all original seals and equipment and still going strong!
Like many others stated previously, my local dealer (and the one I used before my move) said that he has never changed an IMS bearing - obviously, the failure rate is huge!
Simple. Instead of asking questions to diagnose where the oil was, how much of it there was, when it started etc, he immediately started IMS talk. He jumped to assume the worst with no information to suggest that was the case.
When your first statements relate to diagnosing a failed IMS, rather than gathering information, it gives away your assumption and loses credibility - sad because I have a lot of respect for Jake and his contributions.
Yeah, I didn't think you could do it, but I just wanted to make sure I was not the one with the reading comprehension problem.
Going forward I will only contribute to assist the OP of this thread.
He may make the shelters, but if I believe that the reality of a Tornado touchdown is real I could care less if he makes Tornado shelters or is GOD! I just want to be safe at that point.
The odds of the engine blowing up on start up are probably about as good as the probability of an IMS failure. However if the possibility weren't there then there wouldn't be odds right? That would simply mean that the chance is 0 100% of the time. BTW I have seen this happen. I used to manage 2 service centers and it can happen.Albeit a slim chance but it can happen.
This topic turns this forum into nothing but a BI&*H fest.
You make several good points. Everything is possible, even if highly improbable. You've seen it and we've all heard the stories. Amazing how vivid a few stories are, even though the vast majority of us have never seen one happen.
Sure, IMS failure is possible and does happen, but the fear that some spread makes the topic spiral out of control and makes things worse. The fear to probability ratio is way out of whack and I for one am sick of reading about it. The number of instances relative to the churn and fear it causes is insane - we are talking about a relatively small number of cars that people hear about and it causes panic and people buy into it because they don't want it to happen to them. Life is about probabilities. If you want to hide in your closet for a probability that's less than being struck by lightening, then you're going to lead a very sad life and should make different choices. S*@t happens - be ready to deal with it, or move on.
Really guys, if you're that afraid, sell your 996 and move on - you really are living a sad life if you're afraid of your IMS going postal on you and landing you a large bill - move on, it's not worth it. People are feeding from your fear and it's not productive. For those of us that realize that this is a very low probability event and do not care, then let us carry on with life and not have to listen to this junk. I am tired of IMS threads. I am tired of the fear mongering.
I would love to think that this will be the last IMS thread, but we all know it will not be. With every single drop of oil on the garage floor there will be someone to come out of the woodwork and spread the fear all over again. Oh joy.
I was wondering if you had managed to get any photos.
Check this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...gine-part.html
If yours looks the same, then the fix is easy and inexpensive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, Any recommendations for indy shops in the area? And if you have had it done how much did it cost you?
__________________
Philip - maybe you can also post a picture of your IMSB and comment on the condition after you replaced it .. i'm guessing most people on this post would guess that there are no issues and the original is still in good condition - but that would be a good way to close out this thread .....
Sorry Wellard, I think you are much more guilty of letting you personal distaste for the pervasive IMS threads, color the intensity and quantity of posts in this thread. If people "panic and buy into it" as you state, it is because many can NOT afford to just ignore "this very low probability event and move on". If it is such a minor possibility, then why don't you offer to pay for anyones engine that toasts due to an IMS? The ONLY reason the number of IMS posts is "way out of whack", is because it IS so effing expensive a failure. Why is that so hard to grasp. NO ONE cares about how your 99 had a spark plug tube leak fixed and that your car was declared in amazing condition. How does that in any way relate to the other hundreds of thousands of 996s out there, and their IMS conditions? I did not read one bit of scaremongering in Jakes original post, he simply stated a warning of a possibility based on reading a single post. The OP stated he has checked the skip plate before and it hs been clean, and that now "there is oil residue all over the transmission" and "under the car". Where do YOU read that it is a possible spark plug tube leak from THAT? WTF? We've all seen the posts and pics of failed bearings, so regardless of the probability, it is real. I didn't know there was such a thing as too much information or caution. Your self righteousness, with multiple posts about it, is to me, more distasteful than Jakes supposed scaremongering in 2 short, informative posts. We all don't live on this forum with thousands of posts, and have been reading them all for the past 6 or 7 years, so for those of us that have a life, that only read occasionally, it's helpful to come across any information that is helpful, when we do. My local P car dealer and a very well respected P-car indie here, have both seen IMS failures. So let me see, a dealer that says everything is great with the cars we sell, never seen a problem, or one that admits there have been issues, which we all know exist....hmmm who to believe...who to believe....who's in denial here......
I especially like the advice of the poster that says "just drive it like you stole it" and everything will be fine...cause that sure as heck fixes oil leaks, in my experience.
I didn't realize you were the content moderator.
You are 100% correct that I and many others are tired of IMS threads - read any one of them and they all go the same way. They're driven by fear and emotion, rather than logic. As I said, it's a very low probability event, but if you can't handle the probability and cost, then you should move on if the worry causes you churn. As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, because sitting around bitching and moaning is not productive.
The reason for mentioning alternate causes of oil leaks is that not all oil leaks are IMS or RMS related and people forget that. Instead, the fear kicks in and people jump to irrational conclusions. The OP has not yet given enough information for anyone to diagnose the issue, so until that happens, EVERYONE in this thread is jumping to conclusions. If you don't like my posts, then that's your prerogative, but all I'm doing here is injecting that we do not have enough information for a diagnosis and that anyone that jumps to the conclusion of an IMS issue is jumping the gun.
When I did my clutch I inspected my rear main seal which wasn't leaking but replaced it anyways since I had the part and would only add and extra few minutes to the job. same went for the IMS after pulling everything apart for inspection and some of the parts not being reusable, I figured I might as well replace everything even though my IMS bearing was fine (no metal in filter or magnetic drain plug) no leaking oil, no abnormal wear marks on the bearing etc.
These are the best pictures I could manage laying on the ground with my iPhone. Hope this is enough info.
There is no oil leaking from the top of anything. It is concentrated to this area. Also, the only collected oil where it drips can be seen in all three pictures. The oil also collects at the drain plug. But that could be because of my skid plate.
Let me know what you guys think!
I agree with Wellards last post 100%. Options and suggestions are helpful and informative. I have no problem personally with living with my car and the IMS. It's a car. And I've read the vast majority of IMS (and RMS, Mobil Oil, Crappy Stereo, clunking suspention, D-chunk, AOS, Coolant expansion tank, failed motor mounts, etc, etc common, oft complained posts) threads, and if it is repetitve or not helpful, I skip over it and move on. It's a forum. 75%BS 25% Usefulness. And for the record, I almost always agree with your posts, and find your contributions very helpful and informative. As I do Jakes. I'd suggest the same thing to you, if you don't like IMS posts, then skip'em.
For the OP, it looks like it actually could be an RMS leak from the pics, LOL. (Not at your misfortune, but after all this...) That the ARB at the cross member is so wet with oil, when (how earlier?) it was checked and all dry, means it's a fair drip. I can see that your IMS Guardian wire is covered with oil, so it's obviously happened since you installed it. When was that?
Thanks! Mostly I ignore the scaremongering threads, as they're unproductive and just serve for people to reinforce their own opinions, rather than be guided by data and more damagingly, serve to hurt the reputation of the cars we love. This particular one set me off because of opinions that were being banded around without data or probing for data.
Now, with regard to the photos, from what I can see, I would agree that this appears to be an RMS leak. How fast is it dumping out oil? How much can you collect in a pan each day? A few drops, or a puddle? I wouldn't worry about weeping, or a few drops, but if you're dumping oil, then you might want to think about doing something sooner, rather than later. Not a biggie - mostly annoying.
First, a giant +1 to Capt. Obvious.
Second, this has become one of my favorite IMS threads - not because of the OP's situation of course - but because it is one of the few out there where people seem to actually be applying some degree of logic and statistical rigor, as opposed to the usual response, which is more or less "
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!
"
As a relatively new Porsche owner (about a year), I was really excited to become a part of this forum because I thought it would be a great place to share stories about how much we enjoy these cars. Instead, I can barely get through a day without hearing that my M96 engine -- the engine that powers several cars on Consumer Reports most reliable list -- is a ticking time bomb. Such nonsense, and yet it can't help but take away from my ability to enjoy my car (even though it's under a full warranty).
Sorry to hijack, OP. Good luck with your situation. Hope it is nothing serious. You have a beautiful car and I hope you're back to enjoying it soon!
Welcome! Glad to have you join us and you've come in with a great attitude.
We truly have remarkable cars - as you said, among the most reliable in the world - and they're meant to be enjoyed, rather than obsessed over their inevitable (according to some) death from nuclear IMS explosion.
Enjoy your car well - it's meant to be driven!
But it doesn't! It just means you have an oil leak - no more, no less.
The purpose of this forum is so that we can help each other. If we jump to conclusions and turn into a quivering wreck in the corner of the room at the first sign of a drop of oil, crying over the impending death of our cars, then there's something wrong with the world. By coming here you share in experience and get guidance from a few of us that have seen these things. If you wanted irrational and emotional responses where people just jump to conclusions, then we could just consult our wives.
I guess I still don't understand where anyone in this thread said,"Stop, drop and roll your car into your nearest Porsche expert cause you my son have an IMS failure that I can diagnose from my computer."
So can we drop this SH*& and talk about the new wing that I am going to put on the 996?
http://falconracingwings.com/16_SQ_FT_WINGS.html
What do you guys think?
Wellard - yesterday you said that your dealer had "never changed an IMS bearing" which does not really surprise me as mst dealers don't change the bearings. Dealers tend to change the engines. The question that should be asked is how many failed engines they have seen/changed. And of these how many we're diagnosed as a failed IMS? And remember that if they just returned a failed engine to Porsche's policy for a long time until the engines were out of warranty when Porsche just denied any liability, then they don't really know the cause of the failure as Porsche sure isn't divulging that information.
I remember when I posted here on Rennlist that I had never had a RMS leak or any of the other known failures for these engines, kind of scoffing at all the talk! That was about six months to a year before my cracked head/intermix. There are a few known problems and weaknesses in these engines and Porsche has not been particularly forthcoming on the issues. And remember that people like Jake tend to see the cars that have broken and that may skew their prospective. And on the various blogs people tend to talk about the problems they have experienced and share their fixes. Most people don't post about the problems they have not experienced (except me that one time I guess) or how their cars have run flawlessly.
I for one am glad for people like Jake who have gathered a lot of experience with the problems that do exist and developed fixes for them. As for the IMS bearing replacement, if you are doing a clutch the incremental cost is not that much and is cheap insurance compared to the cost of an engine these days.
Doug, I don't deny these things happen to an unfortunate few. Life sucks sometimes and there's always someone to be on the receiving end of it. I feel bad for those that get struck with issues and you have my sympathy. I also recognize that by making comments that I have had good luck with my car tempts fate. Oh well - probability is in my favor, so I'm not concerned about dealing with the noise.
Of the two Porsche dealers I've visited with my car, neither had changed an IMS bearing or dealt with a failed engine (I had that conversation because I was curious). I've heard many others make the same comments. Of the people I've spoken to that have changed an IMS (indy mechanics) they did so at the request of the owners, rather then because of a failure.
A couple of years ago I visited Porsche's (then new) distribution and training center in Easton, PA. I had the discussion with them about engine failures, as there were a couple of 996 engines sitting ready to go back to Germany and their comment was that early on there were failures, but the failures on engines above 40,000 miles were rare and the number of failed engines they see nowadays is very very small. There comments were along the lines that if your car has made it this long and is above 40K miles, then you're pretty safe.
Yes, I am glad that there are people out there that have gained expertise in this area, but they also have to recognize that they have a very skewed perspective and that the failures they see are not typical of the general population or that common. It really chafes me to hear people talk like this is a common failure that is waiting to take down all 996 engines - that simply is not true - if it were, Porsche would be in deep trouble and would have to deal with it.
In this particular case, I really did not take offense at the IMS comments themselves, but the fact that the topic went right there without any effort to ask questions and diagnose - that was uncalled for and not helpful to the OP.
I just corrected my post to say that Porsche has "not" been forthcoming on addressing the issues with the engines. One of my frustrations is that if the problems are so rare why hasn't Porsche been open about the number of failures?
For many years Porsche did not make internal parts available for the engines and if there were any problems their solution was to Replace the engine and they did not want the engines disassembled for diagnosis, they would not accept as a core a disassembled engine. And the basically diD not reject cores as to do so they would have to disclose the cause of the failure. In 2008 when I had my engine failure few Porsche techs had even seen the inside of one of these engines, they just replaced them, and why not, Porsche did not make parts available and in 2006 the cost of a reman engine was only about $6,000. By 2008 this was $8,000-$10,000, and now it is over $15,000 (I guess the price of those part has been going up rapidly :-)).
Doug,
As a business leader I would probably behave the same way that Porsche did and give the same answer, because giving out that information helps the competition or exposes you to greater liability than is necessary. It's frustrating for those that have experienced issues, but I can totally understand their behavior.
BWAHAHAHAHA....so true, it hurts...
Had my yearly physical (I'm 54) a few weeks ago. All was good, but Fasting Blood Glucose was 156. My wife has me taking insulin shots 3 times a day, going blind and losing limbs. (I realize real diabetes is nothing to joke about, but I feel fine, am not overweight, don't drink (much) or smoke, low BP, low cholesterol, etc). I go in for a follow up today. I'm betting( hoping) lab error, but last years number was 117. High but not worrisome. I am often a sugarholic, so for the last few weeks, I've cut it out by 90%, so we'll see.
Good luck! I hope it works out okay for you. Don't let the doctor push you into drugs until after you've worked on your lifestyle - it sou ds like you're starting with the right steps... I have a weakness for chocolate, so I know where you're coming from.
This thread started like a chicken running around without a head then it got better. Now we are talking about wives and sugar? Can we turn it into a "please delete" thread later?
Well, it took me a couple of looks to get oriented, but I consulted with my magic 8 babe and she seems to think so after she looked under the car, so you have 3 of us that seem to think that you have a leaky RMS.
As we said earlier, this is not necessarily a big deal and lots of 911s have an RMS incontinence problem. Get an idea of how quickly it's leaking - the guidance I was always given was that a little weeping is not a big deal and you have it fixed next time you have to have work done down there. If you have a serious leak and are dumping a significant amount of oil, then get it fixed sooner.
Do a few searches on RMS leaks and you'll get guidance from others that have been in your shoes and how they handled it. My sense is that they're better at fixing these now than they used to be, so when you get around to fixing it the new seal should hold up better than the old one.
Good luck!
Well, I'd been debating whether or not to add the carbon fiber mirror covers to my white 997 with aerokit, and your last mechanic just sold me on that idea...
I hope we've put this IMS issue to bed, as it's soooo hot down here in the South today, that clothing is just optional and we all just need to chill... yesterday we hit 90F for the first time this year and now we're at 92F... time to be wishing for winter, or the good old days of living in New England.
Yeah, it really is awful... people wearing little to no clothes in order to stay cool... makes me long for December when the temperatures will come back down into the 70s.
BTW, you're still not getting the hang of the rules of this game.
Nice mechanics, Wellard. I approve whole heartily.
To the OP: Spray some engine degreaser under there and rinse off the oil. Check it every day afterwards, to get an idea of how prevalent the leak is. You also haven't mentioned if you noticed any drop in the electronic oil level on the dash. If you've noticed no level drop in the last few months, I'd not worry about it until the mess is too much for you, or there is another reason to get work done in there. Sure looks RMS to me.
The degreaser is a great idea. I have an aluminum oil catch tray under the rear of my car (they're dirt cheap) and that also will tell you if it's a drip or a pool.
BTW, inspect under your hood often!
Aero kits do look nice. To be honest, I'm not much of a fan of the narrowbodies however. There are exceptions to to every rule, though.
Also, I know a lot of people prefer the OEM look, but I don't mind a heavily modified one either if it's done tastefully.
I have to admit that I often have a hard time deciding what to drive in the morning... the classic curves of my 911, or the more aggressive styling of my M, which really loves to be driven hard.
Although, when Chao get's involved it can be a little scary.
The sad thing is that when we did this last time the old crew were all over this.... not having them around any more and contributing is a little sad to think how many people have come and gone over the years.... coming up on 6 years here, 7 with my 996.
Well I'm glad everyone is happy now... All it took was a bunch of hot women.
This is my kind of forum haha
Anyways, I am doing an oil change tomorrow and will let you know if there are any metal shavings in there and if my IMS guardian was even doing anything. I also will degrease and see how the leak is, but it seems to me like its getting worse.
Well so far...
I have changed the oil and checked the filter. I guess I can't confirm that the IMS Guardian was working since there was no shavings really but that was a relief.
I also degreased the area in order to see how fast the leak is. The leak is getting worse it seems like and drips a couple drops to the ground a day. It use to be 1/2 - 1 drop a day before.
So should I drive the car like this until my clutch goes out and take care of it then? Or is it something you guys think I should just go ahead and do?
I'm pretty hard headed, thick skinned and a pretty sh*tty wheel man. But I'm not an a$$hat. He has a pretty thankless job preaching to the perverted here, but he has changed 1 mind and saved 1 more M96. Now I just have to find a proper indy here in STL as you know Porsche tells me this aftermarket mod isn't something they will do willingly. If not my Dad and i will have to do it - he is a Master Tech but a vette man and warned me that I will have to get myself up to speed on the p-car's needs - He has never worked on one. Can't be a wrench wench wo a wicked weasel imho
Well I guess us level headed Midwesterners think alike as I grew up just outside of St.Louis. According to LN's website the prefered installer in StL is Address:
9331 Manchester Rd.
St. Louis, Missouri 63119
United States of America
Name: Reid Vann
Phone Number: [phone removed]
Go Cards!!
Thx! Oh and Boyz, get those girls some Wicked Weasels for Fs Sake! It's indecent having a Porsche photo op wo one ~;}
http://wickedweasel.com/en/shop/knickers/buy/651-M15
