LS3 Engine swap option

I read in a recent post here about an option to swap a 410hp GM LS3 motor into the 996 instead of buying another Porsche motor if your Porsche motor was to detonate. Renegade Hybrids, a company in Arizona provides kits to do the swap and also does the swap at their shop. I was interested enough to email the company and ask for more information. I basically wanted to know how much it would cost for a complete turn key motor swap if I shipped them my car. Here is Scott's response from Renegade: "Good questions. First of all, it's just under $30K to have us do everything with the new 410HP engine, AC, heat, gauges, the works. Then, if your engine is not blown up, you can expect to get about $6000 or more complete. However, if it fails...and they all do, you will have a $500 core if you are lucky. So, as it stands, for the low $20's, your car would be perfect for the conversion if your engine is still running perfectly. We just sold a 996 engine used out of another customer's car for $5500. It had more miles (just under 50K) and the buyer was going to do the upgraded IMS bearing failure anyway. The new owner called us back after splitting the engine and said it looked great...except for the IMS bearing. It was just about gone. Good thing he made sure it was replaced. Even the new "upgraded" engines are failing right and left. We have a Cayman in-house that just lost engine #2. It's sad, but you are driving a time-bomb. I hope this helped. Thanks for your interest and I hope we talk with you soon... Sincerely, Scott >>> Renegade Hybrids" I am just posting this info because I thought it interesting. I know some people feel it to be "sacrilegious" to put an American motor in a Porsche, and I normally would, too, but, it is kind of a cool idea and a way to get away from the M96 motor if one was so inclined. And let's avoid flaming him for his comments saying virtually "all" 996 motors will fail and they are a "time bomb." We know because of his business, he is probably exposed to many broken motors and his opinion on the M96 may not be the most objective. So it seems like a LOT of money to me, even though it's a complete "turn key" engine swap. Maybe if you did the work yourself it would be doable. He wrote that he thinks that a 996 with the new motor can fetch upwards of 45K, but to me, it still seems like it's prohibitively expensive.

holy crap 30k?? I'd much rather have one of those upgraded Flat 6 Innovations engines.

Really?? nice. Just buy a Corvette.

$30k defies all logic to even ponder this. For the ones that would even remotely consider this at this price point needs to check themselves into a mental institution.

It sounds really expensive considering their kit in total goes for about $6000. So if you add a used engine you should still be under $15k. Does it really cost another $15k to install?!? I visited them when I was in Las Vegas a few years ago and they seem to have a good thing going there. If you don't mind working on the car yourself when it is done (don't know who would maintain it since a Porsche or Chevy shop would get confused) then I think it could be a very cool setup. Of course from a Porsche snob you'll have two strikes against you - a watercooled car and a Chevy engine. But it'll be a fast car for sure!

I think it would be a really fun toy to have as long as it was just an extra car.

30,000? You can build a 400 HP flat six for less. why bastardize a 996? This gentelman is bananas if he thinks a 996 with a V8 will fetch 45,000. Mark is right, just buy a vette or mustang if you need a V8.

LS3 is comparable in weight to m96, however I'm not sure how much it will affect handling since our flat6 has most of the weight down low. I will say though that I've seen 2 996's sold on eBay go between $12-15k so not really sure who wants to gamble on resale.

I am surprised it fits. This engine design is the worst ever and they will all go one day and I am not strictly talking about IMS. The IMS is a bearing and should be considered a wear item. I just think they made them too tight and they do not have adequate cooling for high performance driving and cylinder 4 is totally a problem even for just normal driving. I met someone with a 3.4 who swapped it for a 3.8 X51 engine. The car hauls *** like a GT3 now but it cost him 34k (Canadian). You could rebuild the engine for around 13k here. Custom made cylinders, light weight pistons and spec'd properly. So it won't end up like the stock piston that will end up scoring the cylinder wall and taping on the cylinder head.

Just a thought, if one were to swap out engine for newer larger P engine or chose rebuild would it be possible to replace tip for PDK?

$30k is insane. For an LS3? with 410 HP? Why not an LSX block with roughly the same dimensions sporting 427+ cubic inches or more making 550+hp? Agree with others that you could get one of LN 4.0 engines for $8K less. The LS3 engine costs $6200. $24K to retrofit & install? http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance...ductId=1127486

That price makes no sense. Love to see an itemized breakdown of what's in the kit. And it is sacrilege to butcher an air-cooled Porsche for a V8 swap, but nothing wrong with it in a water-cooled Porsche, which came pre-butchered from the factory.

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http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

If you wanted to keep the engine swap in the VAG family, you could just bastardize your car with a VW VR6 swap. http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=28555

This would be amazing Porsche 997 GT3 Engine- 3.6- M97.76 with 6 Speed manual G97-90 Transmission Complete 2007 GT3 Motor and Tranny with 15000 miles US $29,999.99

^^^ That would be fun as well. But more realistically, what about the 996 GT3 engine? Anyone know how easy that swap would be? At first glance, it seems like it could be as easy as swapping the engine harness and ECU, bolting the engine in and then maybe a little tweaking with Durametric to get everything running right?

At $30K you could just buy another 996 and start over. If one did the labor themselves it would be more realistic. Adding the price one paid for their current 996 and the cost of a conversion one could probably have a 996TT or maybe even a GT3. I have to admit, the LS motor in a 996 would be fast. A basic LS1 has 305 hp, one could get the 6.0 liter LS motor and easily have 500 hp with a cam and intake and heads that wouldn't even be hard on the motor. Imagine 500rwhp in a 3,000 pound car that still has A/C.

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I agree and for that amount, I would rather sell my existing car and find a used TT or GT3 and call it a day. However, I would really like to see someone that has an LS conversion take it around the track. The rear engine Porsches are already relatively tricky to drive fast compared with other cars. I can only imagine all the low end torque coupled with the higher center of gravity of a V8 motor, might make things even trickier for everyone except the pro's. Of course one will not have the option of PASM on a V8 conversion either.

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I dont understand this at all. If you are going through all this work why not op for for something with some more power? Whats the output on that motor? 200hp? seems like a lot of work for a slow 993.

the 12v VR6 is only about 175 hp or so. Am I missing something?

The VR6 is damn near invincible, even when boosted. I'm betting once he gets the car running properly with the new motor it won't be long until a turbo is slapped on it. 400+ horsepower from those motors is easy and not terribly expensive.

Seems crazy. I thought the whole purpose of this option was that it could be had for much less than a Porsche replacement.

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That's what I was thinking. In regard to turbocharging a VR6, I'm trying to picture where you would be able to put the turbo/intercooler and run the piping on that setup within the cramped confines, not to mention routing the coolant lines to the engine.

I would bet that the $30k installed indicates that there's a significant amount of hand-work/modifications that they're not telling you about.

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Here's a link where a guy is still ironing things out after working on it for 2 years if that's any indication: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...onversion.html

I think it goes without saying, for $30K the powerplant possiblities are almost endless. Hell, you can buy a lot of complete CARS that are 400+ hp for $30K. Why anyone would waste their money on a GM motor in a Porsche is beyond me, but it's America, have at it if you want. Personally, if I was gonna drop $30K into an engine for my 996 I'd be looking at a Porsche engine and nothing else. No doubt you can get plenty more HP, and probably reliability, from well known porsche engine builders out there.

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I don't think you can compare, This guy does not seem to have the resources of Renegade who have been doing this stuff for a long time. Not the mention the guy in the middle east started off with a basket case Turbo!

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The point I was trying to make was that this is not straightforward and it looks like some amount of tinkering and modifications are needed like RF5BPilot was referring to. Renegade has been doing it for awhile now so naturally they would have all the kinks worked out but still doesn't mean that it's any less tedious of a process. If Renegade is charging that much, I would think part of it would be the fact that it is quite a process with a lot of things needing to be done as witnessed by some first timers trying to have a go at it.