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YOUR RESEARCHHow cold is too cold?
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Run hard
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Suggestion
Running hard under load before the engine is fully warmed up.
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the funny thing is I bet it would've been fine had he not let it run low on oil.
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Cold engines should be started, run for MAYBE 30-90 seconds to allow fluid to circulate, especially automatics, then driven gently until warned.
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In the spirit of sharing, my brother-in-law successfully completed a test earlier this month that I can share: If you want to know how far a Mazda Cx-6 can go without EVER changing OR adding oil, that figure is exactly 95,600 miles OR 8 DAYS BEFORE THE LEASE IS UP!
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2.) I wouldn�t rev the engine past 3,000 RPMs during warmup, and I would use very lite throttle during warmup
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In the spirit of sharing, my brother-in-law successfully completed a test earlier this month that I can share: If you want to know how far a Mazda Cx-6 can go without EVER changing OR adding oil, that figure is exactly 95,600 miles OR 8 DAYS BEFORE THE LEASE IS UP!
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Living in WI, I pretty much store my car in winter for a few reasons. For one, the streets are nasty with salt (literally coated with it so thick you can spin out on it), for another when they are not coated with salt they are coated with ice. Finally I usually spend time fixing/upgrading my car. I have read about cold weather bore scoring issues and was wondering how cold does it have to be to cause bore scoring issues? A few threads have hinted at single digits, but at what temperature are we safe from cold? Would that be like above 20F, above freezing?
Following.
Likely Charles from LN or FSI are the only people who can answer this. Although, with the recent arrival of reasonably priced factory short blocks maybe you just drive it.
Somewhere hidden in these forums Jake Raby speculates on some of the contributing factors to bore scoring in colder weather.
Letting the car sit at idle until it is warm. Allows the rich mixture to wash oil off the cylinder walls.
Running hard under load before the engine is fully warmed up. Causes the pistons to warmup and expand much quicker than the block does.
Porsche’s recommendation is to let the car warmup for a minute and then drive away gently (not sure if they use that exact word) until the car is thoroughly warmed up.
I live in MN which is at least as cold as WI if not colder and have driven my 996 for 2 winters without any issues. Porsche tests all their vehicles in extreme climates, so I'm not worried.
The issues I am referring to are not necessarily daily operation in cold climates, but rather the known bore scoring issues that are exasperated in cold climates due to tight clearances and pistons expanding at a greater rate than cylinders (at least that is how I understand the issue, someone please correct me if I am wrong...). I am hoping to know just how cold it has to be for this condition to exist, as I like to get out in April, after the salt is gone.
Sorry I'm going to have to disagree on that one... have an F150 I drove last winter and it's like any other 4x4 except the back end is so light you have to worry about spin outs and traction. The only issue I've ever had with my 996 was when the snow got too deep that it was a clearance issue.
Personally when I lived in new england I wouldn't drive my boxster in winter. The grit and salt will eat your car eventually, (see dporto's post) and even if you don't get to the point of rotting bodywork all the bolts/screws/aluminum underneath will corrode making every job on the car a roulette of "will this bolt head snap off?"
That is even before you think about if there will be increased risk of bore scoring or anything else.
I bought a cheap beater car and used that in winter
That's the fun part.
End hijack - Everyone who enjoys driving your 996 in winter, continue to do so and enjoy. This is not about how much fun in the snow the 996 is, I would like to get at the original question.
My original question - How cold does it need to be for cold weather bore scoring to be a concern? It is below 0, below freezing...?
I don't think anyone can answer the question definitively...too many variables. Oil type/viscosity/age will play a big role, and so will how long it has been sitting, as in a daily driver vs one that sits for 2 weeks in low temperatures. Some people leave their cars outside in the freezing cold and never have a problem. Some are garaged but do develop a problem. It can go either way. I don't think someone can say yeah it is below 0, or below freezing...or anything below 50 degrees. Just my two cents....
I would not want to start my 996 if it were -30F outside, even with 0-40 oil. That�s just me though. I started it up at -10F one day and wasn�t really worried.
The 2 things to remeber are:
1.) Your oil viscosity at extreme low temps must be able to flow immediately and without too much resistance. Some oils start to have trouble below -30F
2.) I wouldn�t rev the engine past 3,000 RPMs during warmup, and I would use very lite throttle during warmup
How often are temps in the -10F to -30F range where you live? If you are really worried about it, just drive a different car or heat up the garage if you can on those days.
I don't think it needs to get that cold to exacerbate scoring. Temp contraction works on a gradual scale, so it's not a yes/no proposition. IIRC there are cars from the NW involved, which implied 0C / 32F as a potentially problematic temp. In a normal winter for SLC we get 0F and weeks of lows around 10F. I don't drive mine unless it's over 40F, but I'm pretty risk averse when it comes to rebuilding the m96.
I park my car outside now under a factory car cover and connected to a battery tender. I won�t even start the car if the temperature is below 42 degrees. I realize the short blocks are now cheap, but $10,000 out-the-door is still $10,000. If changing the oil a lot and not starting the car below 30 degree saves me $10,000, why not ??
Honestly, 42 is nothing. Same with 30 degrees. If you read deep into any high end engine builder or researcher, they always mention that folks should not be putting the hammer down when the engine is too cold, to take it easy. That�s the biggest issue - don�t let the piston get too hot too fast when the rest of the engine is too cold. If you start your car and take it easy at 42 or 30 and let it warm up by driving carefully, I really don�t think you should ever worry about it. If you end up having an issue, it�s a design flaw that will get you sooner or later.
Agreed. Even the owners manuals say that. My 1995 Mercedes manual went into great detail about how to drive it cold. Plus the transmission was programmed to shift differently when cold. (Didn't shift too low to avoid lugging a cold engine). same for BMW.
And these German cars spend a lot of time in cold climates and survive fine.
Cold engines should be started, run for MAYBE 30-90 seconds to allow fluid to circulate, especially automatics, then driven gently until warned. Avoid hard acceleration until warmed.
Also, engines warm up faster and evenly when driven than when idling.
Enough talk, I'm going to take my car for a drive. It hasn't been out in weeks due to snow.
I am a sucker for buying lovable, but seriously flawed cars that can go kaput at any minute:
The 996 I don�t drive below 42 degrees because of bore scoring and the other 20 modes of engine failure
The Mini Cooper I don�t start below 32 degrees because the timing chain can snap at any minute
The Land Rover Disco II I don�t drive when it snows because it will rust, fail state inspection and slip a sleeve
The Ferrari California I don�t drive when it rains because the car has never seen rain and I don�t want to crash it & end up on YouTube. Plus the DCT can go any second without warning and cost anywhere from $7,000 to $40,000.
The only two cars I own I would drive in all weather conditions are the $300 Toyota Echo I inherited from my Dad and my Infiniti QX30. The Toyota Echo sounds like total crap over just 2,000 RPM but will go over 210,000 miles if you don�t maintain it and 300,000 miles if you do. The Infiniti is the best of both worlds. German engineering on the inside and Japanese reliability & dealer service on the outside.
lol. Funny post.
I like the details on how far the Echo will go with and without maintenance. In the spirit of sharing, my brother-in-law successfully completed a test earlier this month that I can share: If you want to know how far a Mazda Cx-6 can go without EVER changing OR adding oil, that figure is exactly 95,600 miles OR 8 DAYS BEFORE THE LEASE IS UP!
I am absolutely amazed by the irrational fears this website and these posts generate. The quality and engineering of Porsches is absolutely amazing, there is no other car company in the world that spends as much time and money on this. My 99 C2 after almost 20 years is in better condition than cars half its age and I've been using it as a daily driver in MN year round for the past 3 years. Routine maintenance and common sense is all that's needed. When it's really cold I take it easy just like I would with any other car until the engine gets up to temp... it's not rocket science.
