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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBlackstone implies JG DT40 is a waste of $
Reported or suspected cause
taking this “stock
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
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Discussions that report identifying a cause
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Reported cause
The real problem is taking this “stock on stock” analysis and projecting it on all of the non-stock engines on the planet.
Leading evidence: 'taking this “stock' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'taking this “stock' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill toilet of its spin off sites' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
It is refreshing and easier to digest than "It's so because I say it is so because back in the day we filled up a Saturn V moon rocket with suntan lotion and used the exhaust to heat up tacos on the launch pad until it failed with mode of failure #86"
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
All those writers ended up trying to fill the the toilet of its spin off sites.
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Suggestion
I believe in the science more than anecdotal evidence from someone recommending a certain oil as the only thing that will keep a car from exploding.
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Suggestion
I'm going to ignore the people with thousands of track hours of testing data, plus the builder(s) and techs that have decades of experience with the m96.
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Suggestion
Lake Speed has just finished a 7,700 mile trip in the Driven Boxster and after that the TBN level of the oil is still enough to pop a purple result on the testing strips that we use in the field.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
It is refreshing and easier to digest than "It's so because I say it is so because back in the day we filled up a Saturn V moon rocket with suntan lotion and used the exhaust to heat up tacos on the launch pad until it failed with mode of failure #86"
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
20 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261027T044418Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I'm going to ignore the people with thousands of track hours of testing data, plus the builder(s) and techs that have decades of experience with the m96. What I'm going to do is trust a gumby with a keyboard and an ability to post articles for compensation of around $50/article. Because that's what a rigorous & conscientious person would do.
"Blackstone implies JG DT40 is a waste of $"
I might have missed it but I did not see Joe Gibbs DT40 mentioned in this article at all. Can you link to the reference?
Correct but -
See my headline "IMPLIES"
See the article headline "Expensive oil........ JG DT40 qualifies.
I was not brave enough to mention Mobil 1 cited in the test - fearing retribution from the M1 fan boys.
Just Rennlist Click bait and fun ! Enjoy.
Blackstone is not the best source anyway- just read their Employee reviews !
Source document here:
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/News...uly-1-2017.php
To be fair ,the Subaru engine comparison used is somewhat(?) similar to the M96. And no other UOA company has offered such info ,so kudos to Blackstone for offering this.
Oh it's expensive all right. I estimate a 50 HP increase, at the headlights, and 100 ft lb torque increase, at the radio, as measured by my "I.H.I." beer goggles meter.
Half the cost of DT40 is for the oil. The other half pays for the feeling of superiority that wraps me in a warm embrace every time I see a quart of Mobil1, which is priceless.
Jalopnik is the huffing post of automotive journalism...liberal garbage, who's primary blog got shut down by Hulk Hogan. All those writers ended up trying to fill the the toilet of its spin off sites.
By their account unless you drive a tesla, Ford Focus, or a Honda Civic all other cars are inferior. Anything that jalopnik puts up is millennial garbage.
huffington post hasn't even mentioned the latest DNC IT guy arrest
Based on feedback from the Saab community, DT40 is almost enough to compete against the Viggen. So that's likely 30-45whp gain when measured at the exhaust camshaft on bank 1.
Wow, I did NOT get that from the very interesting article. That statement is kind of a stretch.
A couple of points-
Comparing apples to sides of beef : The article isn't talking about racing oil that you are supposed to change out after track day or after no more than 1000 miles. The apparent target of this thread is very clear on what he is recommending Joe Gibbs DT40 for. None of which includes taking my kids on a PCA tour where we never break the speed limit. It is also not talking about track conditions. So your title, while a wonderful troll post that will be beautiful to watch grow and blossom into a 10 page thread, is disingenuous. I don't think it adds anything to the forum besides entertainment.
It doesn't mention that oil specifically or any of the oil being used in anything other than daily driver conditions. Once again, comparing apples to roofing nails.
A couple of more points-
They used science in the article. Science counts in this kind of stuff. I believe in the science more than anecdotal evidence from someone recommending a certain oil as the only thing that will keep a car from exploding.
The writers of the article don't mind mentioning the weak points in their research and what else there is to learn about it as they move forward. It is refreshing and easier to digest than "It's so because I say it is so because back in the day we filled up a Saturn V moon rocket with suntan lotion and used the exhaust to heat up tacos on the launch pad until it failed with mode of failure #86"
That being said, I enjoyed the article and the research and feel like I have gained some more knowledge on the subject. Now I wish they would do an article on the wear rates of 0w40 vs. 5w50 across all of the M96 engines that they have tested. Wouldn't that be an educational hoot!
Respectfully submitted,
Debo sends.
This comes from the oil analysis company that doesn't even include TBN and TAN values for their evaluations in the base price. Those are two major considerations when I look at any UOA report.
I've gathered my information from hands- on, direct testing. That means building things only for the purpose of testing oil. Lake Speed has just finished a 7,700 mile trip in the Driven Boxster and after that the TBN level of the oil is still enough to pop a purple result on the testing strips that we use in the field.
No other oil company that I know of bought a Porsche with the sole purpose of continuing the development of their product, and they damn sure didn't drive it cross country and back to Porsche Parade. He even won the Autocross at Parade in that car, with our engine! Yes, that little 2.5 Boxster spanked every single car there.
We build engines, measure them going together, then punish them, and tear them down and measure them again. Thats how DT40 was developed. You can't develop anything, any other way in my direct experience.
They can say what they want. Their last newsletter of any substance said that a magnetic drain plug was also a wasted effort. Thats just plain stupid for an M96 engine, where the oil filter is located AFTER the oil pump, meaning that any debris caught in the sump by a magnetic drain plug is helping to protect the oil pump. Thats aside from it being a great indicator of wear.
Now, all that said, a lot of the oils with a lesser anti- wear package can get away with it because they use a lower grade detergency package, too. This is the "rest of the story" that they didn't mention.
[QUOTE=Debo18D;14351728]Wow, I did NOT get that from the very interesting article. That statement is kind of a stretch.
You missed the Rennlist Click Bait disclosure
ditto "implied"
TBN & TAN - go to Bitog or
http://www.truckinginfo.com/blog/lub...hese-mean.aspx
T
Lake Speed sent this to me, after he and I discussed the article from Blackstone. I am posting it here verbatim, which his permission.
Beyond what Lake states here, what we also do not know is what oil these engines were previously using before being switched to the evaluated oils. We do not know if a flush oil was used to prevent cross- pollination, and we do not know the service intervals or applications for each car that was evaluated. Neither does Blackstone, conclusively. We also agree with Lake concerning wear metals, the article didn't compare TAN, TBN, viscosity, or many other critical pieces of UOA that we always consider even more than UOA when judging an oil.
I see two issues with this article. First, it only focuses on the iron wear metal levels. The analysis is very different when you include all of the wear metals.
Porsche Flat 6 Subaru Flat 4 Porsche Flat 6
Oil DT40 Blackstone Universal Avg Motul
Miles 4600 3900 3200
Iron 6 9 6
Lead 2
Copper 2 8 2
Tin 1
Aluminum 1 4 2
Iron/1,000 1.30 2.31 1.88
Total Wear / 1,000 1.96 5.38 3.13
These are statistically significant differences when all of the wear metals are taken into account, so my first fault with Blackstone’s article is faulty data analysis.
Second, there is a section bias in the sample data. Here is what I mean. All of the engines selected for analysis are stock engines, so the results of “stock” oils for “stock” engines would not be expected to be radically different. The real problem is taking this “stock on stock” analysis and projecting it on all of the non-stock engines on the planet. Many of the readers likely have some aftermarket parts in their engine, so they are now removed from this data pool. As a result, this data does not apply to their situation. Heck, we’ve all seen enough of these reports to know this simplistic interpretation is not helpful nor accurate.
Thanks,
Lake Speed, Jr
STLE Certified Lubrication Specialist
STLE Oil Monitoring Analyst
Driven Racing Oil - Born From Joe Gibbs Racing. Driven To Win
13201 Reese Blvd, Ste 300
Huntersville, NC 28078
[phone removed]
