Afraid to AX

Yes, I'm simply, a wimp. Never been before; never done DE either. Have a chance to go tomorrow; a bit low on oil so I need to top off tonight if I'm going to go, but I'm sure if I go, people will laugh at me and say, "Why on earth are you driving that car? Go back to your Toyota, man!" Am I the only one scared to go? It's bad enough to post something dumb (like this) and get flamed in cyberspace, but in real life, it's even worse.

Don't be afraid, DO IT! Autocross is incredibly fun; as a first-time novice, your times will be slow as virtually ALL first-time novices are slow, but we've all been there and all understand. We know it's a sea of cones at times, and easy to go off-course. You'll probably feel self conscious just because of the attention Porsches get, but there's no need to, because autocrossers understand. There may be some good natured ribbing, but I've yet to see a club that didn't praise and encourage novices' efforts. What's most important is that you have fun , and pushing your car to the limits is always way fun. Sure, the limits you're pushing tomorrow are more likely to be your limits than the car's limits, but you'll have a blast, no doubt When you go, go early. The more times you walk the course, the better you're remember it when you're driving. Say the magic words "This is my first autocross", to anyone you see, and you'll have more help than you probable need And don't worry about your car; autocross stresses your tires a bit more than normal, but runs are usually too short to overheat the engine. It's not nearly as hard on the car as DEs. Top off the oil, as you should for daily driving anyhow, and don't worry about hitting cones- damage is theoretically possible if you hit a cone in just the wrong way, but it's rare- I can't tell you how many hundreds of cones I've hit in the last 4 years, with 0 damage, and every cone mark has buffed right out. (Helps to start with a good coat of wax, but magic eraser takes them right out for me.) Pro tip: if you're not hitting cones occasionally, you're either too far from them (rule of thumb is every foot off a key cone is worth about 2 tenths of a second), or not going fast enough. The fastest times will be right on the hairy edge of traction, within a hair's breadth of losing control. For DE, you always want a nice safe margin, but for autocross, you really want to be pushing it. Your tires should be squeaking in every corner (a nice happy squeak = good, they're pushed to the limit. Squealing/screaming, however, is a bad thing.) Check out the Rennlist autocross forum, too.

Do it! As sjfehr says, people will bend over backwards to help you. And take his advice about walking the course as many time as you can. You can read my blog about my first autocross here: http://bill-yovino.hubpages.com/hub/...es-a-new-trick There's no better way to learn about your car.

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I get it. The thought of it is kind of intimidating, especially since you kind of assume that everyone else at the autocross is a seasoned pro. Only they're not! Sign up! Go. You won't regret it. It's an absolute blast. The first time I went, I took my Volvo but there was also a driver with an e34 5-series wagon, another guy with a Huyndai Excel Wagon that was still wearing snow tires, a Ford Focus (or two) and then, of course, there were drivers with Cobras, Miatas, Porsches and other sports cars. The one thing common among everyone is that we ALL had a great time and nobody was ridiculed for their skills (or lack thereof) or their cars, even behind the scenes. It was just a lot of fun and the skilled veterans had a blast showing us newbies how to improve our skills. They walked the course with us, talked us through skill drills (it was a novice day) and some sat co-pilot on our runs to continue teaching us. Go, take a deep breath, be okay with laughing at your mistakes (you'll make some) and HAVE FUN! Oh yeah, take pictures, too! -Eric

Do it. Drive the car. Learn from the veterans. It's a great time.

+1,000!!

Not a single person will laugh And don't top off the oil If you come home without the bijggest smile you have had jin years I. Will take up a collection and buy you a ..........something

^^ +1 Go, you'll have a great time. In the end, AX may not be for you and that is OK but I still would bet that you'll have a great time and most importantly you'll learn a thing or two about your car. Actually, the worst case scenario is that you will get hooked and start spending big $ on AX and DE. No one will judge and no one will laugh. Hell, my first time out there I looked like I was in the parking lot of the local grocery store looking for a good spot to park. I'm much faster now...

Do it. Also look for any local driver's ed courses held on road courses for some fun going left, right and fast (Again, the magic words "this is my first time here" do work wonders and got me a good in-car instructor). I did my first Hooked on Driving at Homestead last weekend and it was a blast. (it's not timed. so my insurance agent confirmed I was covered in case I bent the car, too - imagine that)

I wimped out. Regretting it.

I almost backed out of my first DE. I held my own feet to the fire and went through with it. I'm now a PCA advanced instructor, race with PCA and NASA, hold a track record, helped bring Spec 996 into the PCA,... You never know till you try it. Like Wayne Gretzky said, 100% of the shots you don't take, never go in.

No problem with you not going. I am curious however, do you like to drive your car very aggressively at times? Are you interested in fixing some of the handling quirks to be able to push the car harder and faster. Do you feel you too often hit the rev limiter? Do you ever decrease the tire pressures when doing on a fun ride thru the twisties? I've never AXed but I do all the above too often.

Yes. Uh, there are quirks? Well, no not yet, then. No, not yet. Admit no to this. Is 1/4 bad? It was the whole-day that threw me; I thought a few hours racing around cones was AXing. Didn't realize it was an 8-hour affair. That, plus oil "issue," plus wimp = day washing car instead. Almost but not (even as close to) as satisfying.

no regrets.... it took me a few times to muster up the courage...then I read ALL the details and had a heck of a time figuring out how to sign up, was scared, nervous trying to prep the car (which was not needed) really over thought the whole thing.... its very low key, just guys and gals hanging out and every single person is willing to help or just share info or just say hi and keep it very simple...you can be a casual user or a real track junkie...all get along and all just there to have fun, learn and share the smiles... the friendships will develop rather you want them to or not, its a natural thing because SOMEONE there is very much like you or knows where you are at

what's "the oil issue" just level?

see if this pic link works... yesterday's AX in Bremerton Wa https://picasaweb.google.com/1139816...at=directlink#

"Oil issue" is just level. Put my first 3000 miles on the car and the sensor's finally dinged. Went away but manual check proves it needs oil. Since it's the first time I'm adding oil to my precious machine, I was nervous to "get it right." It's sort of like wiping your nose; hard to do wrong, I guess. About to take the car out and warm it up to see how the level is holding now. Oh and Ed, ya, those pics would get me there for sure. Darn. Well, the good news is that my new helmet came in today, at least. Not sure it's up to Snell quality, though. Pic posted with me; good fit.

yea any ole oil will do <cracking up> no worries missing an event, there will be another....

Oil? That stuff is expensive. I just add some water. The oil floats to the top. Seriously, just go for the AX. I didn't have a single run inside the cones my first time, but I had a blast. You don't have to spend the whole day either. You can leave if you have some other obligation. It's a lot cheaper than a track day, so you won't waste a lot of money if you have to leave early. Just go and have fun. It is impossible not to as long as you aren't too serious.

since we are sharing "the beginning" my first day I was pretty timid...kept to myself and just tried to get thru and figure out how it all worked - driving wasn't my big focus I guess...though it was fun I wasnt really doing anything other than learning the ropes.... my second time out - I was DANGEROUS because, well...I "knew what to do" - that had me going off track spinning and missing a 55 gallon barrel by about 2 feet while spinning....so I went home with a huge helping of humble pie I decided to listen the 3rd time and for the next 2 years I hit every event and listened to the instructors - somehow I managed make friends as the "court jester" they would all stand around and watch (egg me on) to get crazy...which I would oblige - but I was learning too... about 4 years later, I am now instructing people...and still having the time of my life. learning and although much calmer I still "hang it out" for the people who want a show...not like the old days but just a little for fun..The President of our chapter and previous Chief Driving Instructor (and friend) commented yesterday "I saw it hanging out a little on that last run ....." I said " I had a student rider so I was just letting go a little over the edge" his reply "NICE" man, I know I have TONS to learn...I know I am not only not the best but not even in the top %'s...but I know I have improved and know I am going back for MORE!!!

LOL @ helmet...dont forget to buckle the chin strap!

When you first learn how little you know, you still have no idea how little you know. Just go and have fun. Edit: Helmet was hilarious

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man - no kidding this is not helping him though....... LOL

AX is like church. You should be there only because you want to! 1/4 is ok. If you never drive agressive AX probably won't appeal to you. When your cornering entry speeds start to increase, you'll find these cars push really bad. I guess car guys call it understeer. Experimenting with tire pressures is fun. You will find differences in traction and agility running different than highway pressures. I find when pushing the car fast in a series of turns at lower speeds I keep constantly hitting the rev limiter. I need to work on this.

Nick..that's easy... SHIFT! I find a lower rpm easier to balance thru a series of turns - then as I come out I have room to run it up in the straight before shifting rather then needing to shift immediately upon reaching the straight (by "lower" I am NOT talking about 3k..more like 4-4500 ish?) may not "feel" as fast..but try it...even on a DE..try a higher gear in a corner a few laps...its a surprising result

Have not done AX but hope to do soon but on my first Track day I remember my 1st run was pretty bad. My instructor told me to relax and drive smooth. It got better and better as day went by. I also remember riding with my instructor's 993 TT and I got car sick. Yes, got car sick on how fast this guy was going! But this is a true statement - the more you do it the better it gets. PLUS this will help you improve your driving skills on the street. It can save your life on the road someday

AX and DE are SOOOOO different,...even after many AX's I was scared to DE...OMG was that a bad move!! I cant possibly get enough of that! need money - having a new sign made so can pan handle for track fees and tires.....

Yeah, Track will be 2 - 3 times more in fees. And not to mention tire abuse

Ed, you need to park your Porsche with you in front of it with your sign at a freeway off ramp! Please, we need a pic of that! Please! Oh and show us how much you get in the first 15 minutes.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

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...then you can start a "Craziest things ever done with your Porsche" thread

not sure I want to know what some people consider crazy....there is "love" involved you know

Thanks for the encouragement. Season is done here as of today, but there's always next season. As for today, I took the car for a nice ride after putting in about a quart of proper Mobil 1 (0W-40 for those that like to debate). Washed the car properly upon return, so nice and shiny now. Apparently it was "Porsche Day" in the neighborhood. Managed to pass and speak with owners of a beautiful 964 turbo, 997 C4 and a 1983 guards red targa. Nice day for a drive, even if not on the track.

Just did my first AX earlier this month, it was very low key, run by our PCA chapter. There were many first-timers. I walked the course with the chapter president, who set-up the course, and had him ride with me on the practice and first few runs. Hit cones on two runs, off-course one and posted some respectable times in a few. Had my best times on runs I did without someone in the passenger seat, found it less distracting, easier to concentrate on the course. Definitely a blast of fun and will do it again. Haven't done a real DE yet, but we had an "intro to track" day co-sponsored by the PCA and our local dealership. It was on a private road coarse with grassy run-offs and no walls, so felt perfectly safe. Most legal fun I've had with my clothes on. Highly recommended to do either.

Peter 642: May I make a suggestion, next season, take a bottle of field spray with you to an AX event, park in the back somewhere, you can give your car the once over while watching/ask questions, ........maybe that will give you the encouragement you are seeking to give it a try...believeme, you won't regret it, once you finally do it. Having said that, AX and DE's are not for everyone and maybe, just maybe this won't be your cup of tea.....BUT, I think you should try one first...when you are ready.

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What are you talking about Still plenty of events left in the season, you just have to know where to look! I see you're from around Philly. Perry's site has the schedule for all the autoX events in the tri-state area. http://www.autox4u.com/ I recommend trying an autoX school next season. Lots of clubs have them early in the season and they can't be beat for the both the learning experience and wheel time.

Peter, I just completed my second AutoX day. I went through all your feelings and excuses in the past. Kept going back for Driver Skill classes and then had a chance to ride with our own "Mr. Ed" in his Red Air-cooler - What a hoot and I was hooked - still intimidated buy the knowledge I would do Sooo poorly - but I did it and will be back next year. My first day AutoX I drove all runs with an instructor and I suggest you do the same. Second time out this weekend and there was a shortage of instructors so I went out alone and started slow. After four runs I had knocked off 2 seconds on each run and I felt GREAT!!! Know I was still slower than most everyone - but it sure felt FAST & Furious to me. Try it Trust me.

WTG Jack.... riding with me can have 2 out comes: 1. I want to do that 2. I'm never riding in a car again

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What Autocross event did you bail out on? I went to the one run by the Delaware PCA in Dover yesterday. Wish I had seen your post from earlier in the weekend... I would have tried to push you over the edge to join me (if you are close to Delaware, that is.) Give it a try next year. It's really less intimidating once you see how simple it is in person.

I signed up for my first track event next month near Austin (track day, not AX) and I feel the same way. This isn't a PCA event and I can't help but think people will be looking at me saying "look at that douchebag with a Porsche that doesn't have a clue what he's doing." I want to do it bad enough that I've gotten over it though. I just really want to start learning and am looking forward to getting out there.

dotframe...if anyone even thought it...they would be cast out of any of the groups I have run with PCA or not.... everyone is at their own level, everyone starts somewhere, everyone is there for fun, its not racing....no douchebags allowed, and you cannot be a DB with a good attitude, only a DB with a chip on your shoulder - I doubt you have a chip or you would not have posted your fears

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Definitely, should post what region you're in and/or event. There are lots of people on here that go, and would definitley be willing to go with you or show up with you.(I would, I'm in Northeast region) Going to your first event alone can be intimidating, until you realize that the veterans there are more than willing to help and probably will hit more cones than you think!(of course it's that one quick run that counts!) I went out as a passenger with one of the instructors his first run, he spun out 3X and I lost count on how many cones he hit...... he did end up taking 1st in his class It was actually more intimidating doing the course work(than auto-xing) for the first time for me, as I was always watching the driver and the car instead of the watching the cones.....so I was always getting yelled at by the corner captain to check my cones.

Central Jersey, although Dover is close. Buddy at work did Dover and had an absolute blast. Checking out the AutoX4u now. If the cleavage comes with the AX event, I'm clearly in. Now.

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NEW JOISEY! Heh, heh, heh which exit?! You have a wealth of options in our region. Next season I highly recommend trying out NNJR-PCA's autocross school and car control clinic, and also MS-NE autocross school. Non-competive, lots of fun, lots of wheel time, - cleavage... not so much. While you're at it, consider signing up for a DE at NJMP. Really nice facility and tons of fun. http://www.njmp.com/index.php

AX was the first step before doing DE for me. Now I find DE's are what I enjoy...but if I hadn't done an AX before I might have chickened out of DE. Here's my first AX attempt - trust me you'll never regret it. I was very nervous but by the 4th run I had shaved off like 30% of my initial times. Everyone at the track is super super helpful to newbies because they all remember being one! You Tube

Heading to my second Autocross tomorrow. After all, I have to defend my crown (in the Old clueless fat guy with street tires class).

LOL Bill!

I would highly reccomend the pca autocross school. The nice thing about it is you work with an instructor doing exercises that help with basic car control and in the process you are doing an autocross. Most end with runs on the same course that the club is racing on. No pressure of a timing board and you get walked through the process. If you walk away without enjoying it you will still have picked up valuable driving skills that will open your eyes, I'm 99% sure you'll leave with a big grin and can't wait for the next one. Remember these are a bumch of people that love cars, porsches, driving and having fun, you will meet some of the best and most interesting people and they are interested in sharing that experience with you. I don't instruct because I get free track time or the pizza at lunch is that good, but I enjoy the process and the people...it's rewarding to have a new student leave with a big smile and excitement about the next event at the end of the day. Don't talk yourself out of it!

Attended my second Autocross on Sunday, the Metro NY PCA event at Tobay Beach. I had a great time and did much better than my first one. To OP Peter 642, you should give it a try at least once. Maybe it's not for you or maybe you'll love it. You owe it to yourself and your car to find out. Here are some photos. In the third one, I caught the red car knocking over a cone, which I didn't notice at the time. In the last one, it looks like a security detail is guarding my car.

Join us for the Zone 1 Autocross at Toby Beach on November 19th and 20th. The regions best autocrossers will be there. So there will be a lot of experienced folks to help you out. PM me if you are interested and I can get you the details. Aaron Ambrosino Zone 1 Autocross Registrar

I am planning on attending the Tobay Autox with my C4. Hope to see you all there!

Any significant costs to consider in terms of wear? Brakes? Tires? Man, I want to do this!!

There is another Metro NY AX at Tobay on November 6th that is open to everyone. My understanding is that the Zone 1 AX on the 19th and 20th is only open to PCA members.

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Brakes? Not really. Autocross isn't all that hard on a car, all things considered. You will wear tires out much faster than normal, though. How fast you wear them depends on the tires and your driving style; aggressive drivers will wear tires out much faster. I run soft sticky street tires (Dunlop Star Specs) and tend to really overdrive my car, and found a set will, on average, last my codriver and a year of autocross (we run with two local clubs, so appx 4 seasons worth) plus about 8000 street miles. R-comps will wear out much much faster. Actually, you should be increasing tire pressure from street pressure, not decreasing! Porsche OEM pressures (especially for front tires) are way lower than optimal for grip. The only time you'd need to bleed is from heat gain and air expansion, which you'd have to do mid-way through the twisties, not before. I found I rarely get much more than 2 or 3 psi from heat rise on the road because I NEVER push the car on public roads like I do at autocross (simply not safe to be sliding around on public roads at 10/10), and they just don't get nearly as hot.

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That is correct.

Thanks all; will try to make one of the NY AX events, although one is when wife and I supposed to have a "night out." Hmm...wife...car...wife...car...car...

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Take her to the autocross! Better still, have her drive, too!