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While I personally believe the "solution" is overkill to not such a complex problem, I will be happy just treating my new bearing as a maintenance item to be checked/replaced each time with clutch.
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Install reused oem dual row wire locks during test work
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Again, this "silly clip" is the exact same arrangement that Porsche used on the OEM dual row bearing, in fact, in the early days of the development I installed reused OEM dual row wire locks during test work.
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We have never stated that the engine runs smoother with the IMS Solution installed Vs anything else.
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I doubt it was because of the new AOS because I replaced it as preventative maintenance and my car only has 24,500 miles.
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While I personally believe the "solution" is overkill to not such a complex problem, I will be happy just treating my new bearing as a maintenance item to be checked/replaced each time with clutch.
Install reused oem dual row wire locks during test work
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Again, this "silly clip" is the exact same arrangement that Porsche used on the OEM dual row bearing, in fact, in the early days of the development I installed reused OEM dual row wire locks during test work.
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While I personally believe the "solution" is overkill to not such a complex problem, I will be happy just treating my new bearing as a maintenance item to be checked/replaced each time with clutch.
Replace with an oil fed journal bearing would feel different
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Suggestion
Anyone will tell you it is easy to feel the difference after an oil change, so it's not too hard to imagine a new oil change with an oil fed journal bearing would feel different.
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Generation: 20261026T174436Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Got my car back from Flat 6 Innovations last week following installation of the IMS Solution. Also had AOS and water pump replaced as preventative maintenance and a low temperature thermostat installed. Jake and Dean were a real pleasure to deal with.
The car is now running very smoothly. I thought it was running more smoothly after I got it back but thought it may have been the placebo effect. I talked to Jake and he said that they have noticed cars running more smoothly after the install and have gotten the same feedback. I also have the peace of mind that I do not have a ticking time bomb with an IMS potentially grenading. The peace of mind is well worth the price - I consider it to be insurance.
Cost for IMS Solution including IMS, clutch, RMS and oil change was $3,500. More than what I have seen for some independents doing the L&N IMS retrofit with the ceramic bearing but still, IMHO, well worth it. The AOS, water pump and low temperature thermostat and related labor was another $1k. Wish I had the time, talent and inclination to do my own repairs but that is not in the cards right now.
According to Jake, the new bearing. I doubt it was because of the new AOS because I replaced it as preventative maintenance and my car only has 24,500 miles.
They have my triple black 92 996 now. I opted for the plugs as well. For some reason I'm nervous about them finding something else wrong with the car. Got my fingers crossed. I've only had her for 3 weeks.
What part of Atlanta are you in? I'm in Alpharetta/Johns Creek.
'njoy,
awk
So I have a Jan 2000 build C4 with the LM Dual row bearing install @70,000 miles, just before I purchased it two years back. The Carrera has 85,000 on it now. Should I consider the "New" IMS Solution at some point in the future? Or can I assume this bearing will last another 70,000 miles, or about 10 years at this annual driving pace?
Saying the IMS solution makes the engine run smoother is like saying the Easter bunny exists. The thought that you can feel the difference in a motor that has had a perfectly good bearing replaced with a new one is absolutely ludicrous. Unless the bearing was extremely loose and close to failure there is no way this could happen. I love the product and Flat 6 so I hope Jake isn't actually saying this.
The IMS Solution is only for the single row bearings. The older dual row bearing is consider to be slightly better / stronger than the newer single row and no IMS Solution is being considered. Whether or not you want to think of it as a service item to be replaced every XX miles or a permanent replacement is your call. Either way you should have a few years of life left in the replacement.
I wouldn't say that. Anyone will tell you it is easy to feel the difference after an oil change, so it's not too hard to imagine a new oil change with an oil fed journal bearing would feel different. Smoother is subjective of course. I always though my engine felt fine with M1- 0-40, but it feels & sounds different in a better way with Castrol Syntec 5w-40, so I may even try the Joe Gibbs DT40 for the same reason. I assume he got DT-40 with the new Solution and that accounts for much of the difference. Like you said though, it wouldn't take any play at all on the old bearing to make the new one feel smoother.
Oil lubricates all the moving parts so fresh oil will make a small (albeit noticeable) difference in smoothness and some brands are better than others. Oil fed or not, you will never feel a seat of the pants difference of one ball bearing on an intermediate shaft (unless the old bearing was trashed).
We have never stated that the engine runs smoother with the IMS Solution installed Vs anything else.
Our IMS Solution customers have noted this and brought it to our attention, just as this poster has stated.
Cmon guys, give JR a break. I cant prove my new CH bearing and JG DT40 make my car run smoother but it sure seems like it. I KNOW I feel better having done it.
While I personally believe the "solution" is overkill to not such a complex problem, I will be happy just treating my new bearing as a maintenance item to be checked/replaced each time with clutch.
As usual, thanks JR for all you do for the 996 community and chumps like me who were actually dumb enough to believe in and buy one. We are lucky to have any support at all for the platform so, DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT JR.
I am happy with my $100 "temporary" solution vs. the $3500 "solution". Which really means that "your IMSB will not explode but your cylinders may D-chunk, cams may break in half, blah, blah, etc.
Try reading the post above yours.
Please dont **** off the man whose research and determination may have single handely saved the 996 from junk bond status. Do you really want him to stop helping us on the forum?
I cant believe some of the long time members are going to pile on. Are you guys really forgetting how the answer(s) to the IMSB came about. Makes for some great reading. Looks like some need to re-read the story.
Even if the "solution" does or does not add .5 HP or some imagined smoothness, isnt the engine less likely to have an IMSB failure? Hasnt the issue been addressed by the owner?
JR knows he can not make any false claims about his products or he would quickly be out of business. Im sure there was more testing on the M96 than we can imagine.
I personally can't believe that the haters haven't insinuated that the OP is even a real person or is a "plant" yet. You guys are kind of disappointing me now. Especially with such a low post count.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Teddy Roosevelt
As my Dad always said, if you are not pissing them off, you aren't accomplishing anything.
Holy #$% Imre, you as well as me and everyone else here owes JR a ton of respect. Im sure you based your choice of IMSB replacement on his research as did I. Granted it took some digging but there is no way we could have done this without using what he knows.
Why are you giving him such a hard time? I expect it from some of the wanna-be wrench crowd but not you. I admit using others FREE knowledge for my repairs. I choose to do them myself as you do. I knew absolutely zero about the M96 engine before this forum and JR's info. I now feel comfortable pulling and rebuilding the engine as do you. Give the guy some credit.
Im sure there is a way to measure some small HP increase and smoothness but it seems silly at this point.
JR has done alot of investment / research and in the process of 'Marketing' this I presume he has made alot of money.
On the positive side it has saved a few cars (i think less then people think), but arguably has also devalued the 996 with the surrounding IMS hysteria.
Each to their own opinion
Dude, you take yourself way too seriously…but I guess it’s better than your usual scare the sh*t out of ‘em posts which typically go something like:
“Got 78 calls today from owners whose cars blew up on them nearly killing 247 innocent bystanders…I currently have blown cars here at my shop from all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and several countries in Europe…In fact, the line of wrecked cars stretches as far as the eye can see…it can be seen from outer space with the naked eye. But have no fear my two employees and I will have all of these cars, all 3,042 of them, repaired before the delivery trucks arrive bringing in a new load of 2,886 blown M96/97 engine cars…You P owners out there really have no idea of the worthless, self-destructing, piles of sh*t you bought, but I do. I do all of these repairs in between the 18 hours a day I spend in the lab…did I mention the fact that I work harder than anyone else in this U.S. of A…Did I mention these engines can experience up to 4,660 modes of failure...Oh yeah, one of them is going to get your a$$.. Please view the attached, and completely unnecessary pics of engine carnage…don’t forget to click on my Facebook page to see my translation of the Holy Grail(I can’t tell you this info here, so don’t ask)oh and don’t forget to BE AFRAID…BE VERY AFRAID…”
speaking on behalf of the haters ...
of course, that was our first assumption. But then we realized Jake wouldn't spring for membership on a throwaway account.
9 is right next to 0 on my keyboard, fat fingered that one. 2002 996 . . . . also, why all the hate. I'm just happy to have my IMS replaced so I can drive my nearly new 996 as long as I want.
My RMS was shot when Flat6 got the car and it was leaking badly. I'm very happy with the service I've received. They even did a dyno run after the car was put back together.
Here are the pictures if anyone's interested.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4914693&type=1
'njoy,
awk
English is not my first language so maybe I missed something but I don't think I have. " I talked to Jake and he said that they have noticed cars running more smoothly after the install and have gotten the same feedback."
DreamCarerra, tell us how you really feel? :lol:
I'm a bit disappointed in the fact that you left out the mention of his book.
To me, there are two things being discussed and leave it up to KK to stir the pot.
I haven't agreed with Jake on everything in the past but I don't think anyone discredits or think that he's not a valuable asset to this community in terms of his Porsche knowledge. Not everyone might be appreciative on the info he offers not might they agree with his marketing tactics.
This originally started out with debating whether the op could actually notice anything. Don't know how it got off on this tangent...
On that point you are 100% wrong. Imre came to me and asked if I could get a bearing as I had gotten him a special before on an application that everyone said couldn't be had. I then helped him source the bearing he got before I knew of any of this. So no, I don't owe Jake anything.
And let false information be out there that you refuse to correct even though you know it is incorrect. That is tantamount to saying it is correct in my book.
I must say that the l&n engineering "faultless" tool kit is in no way faultless. The damn little circle clip that it supposedly helps install is a nightmare. Mine broke in 5 pieces on the first try.
They are sending me 5 more free of charge. Hopefully one will go in right. The dual row bearing is a thing of absolute beauty. The silly little ring that supposedly holds it in place? I don't know...
The ring snaps into the groove previously occupied by that hefty snap ring on the much narrower stock bearing. I wonder what if anything at all the puny little aftermarket l&n ring will accomplish.
The $800 dollar "faultless" tool is far from faultless in my opinion. They say there is a learning curve to the procedure. I agree. So how about sending a few more circle clips with the damn kit?
Then the bearing was not properly centered with the IMS assembly, or inadequate lubrication was used. This is the only time that this will occur, unless the tapered sleeve is utilized backward, in the direction that is designed for bearing extraction, not bearing insertion. When I developed this tool the very first clip was inserted flawlessly, because the tool was properly centered and lubricated, with the tapered sleeve being used in the proper manner.
Customer support is not a problem.
Actually, the internal wire lock is not all that retains the bearing. The unit is also held by the inner race and bearing flange. Again, this "silly clip" is the exact same arrangement that Porsche used on the OEM dual row bearing, in fact, in the early days of the development I installed reused OEM dual row wire locks during test work.
Try to extract the bearing when its properly installed, the force required to break the snap ring is far more than you are assuming. The fact that the wire lock expands into a square cut groove multiplies the effort thats required to remove the bearing, even using the Faultless Tool's hefty extraction force, which is otherwise unparalleled by any other puller.
This is the reason why the tool is not sold to the general public and is designed for professional use, by those that have been properly trained on the function of the tool. This typically occurs in a hands on setting, anywhere across the country, or at my facility.
Over 300 Faultless Tools have been sold this year alone, I can count the amount of support phone calls that we've had to answer on one hand.
Take the time to allow the tool to find center before tightening the plate to the bell house. This is the #1 issue that people overlook. Use heavy amounts of light oil on the OD of the bearing and the tapered sleeve, and ensure the tapered sleeve is being used in the proper direction, one side os for extraction, the other is for insertion. If this is installed backward you will break snap rings over and over as the unit will not compress and the clip will relax at the very point where it should be compressed for delivery into the housing bore.
The learning curve is 90 degrees, if any of the above issues are present.
