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YOUR RESEARCHScared of IMS and RMS
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Repair various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have a mechanical background; I�ve been trained to and have serviced and repaired various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military.
Leading evidence: 'Repair various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'ims solution or the other types of ln bearings' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check dipstick, and you are good' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Replace entire engine not just the ln bearings and rms
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I just realized that he changed the entire engine not just the LN bearings and RMS.
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Plus, your bearing was replaced, which gives you more margin still.
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Owning a car that is this much fun to drive and generally costs less than a slightly used Camry or Civic is a wonderful thing.
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Suggestion
It is recommended by some that you install a magnetic oil drain plug and conduct regular and frequent oil analyses to monitor the IMSB wear and replace it when signs of its imminent failure present themselves; this becomes part of the regular scheduled maintenance and is ongoing, but seems superfluous if the IMS is within runout tolerance.
Recommend taking angeles forest hwy all the way up
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Suggestion
PS, I recommend taking Angeles Forest Hwy all the way up to Aliso Cyn, hang a left through Acton, Soledad Cyn all the way to Sand Canyon, hang another left and drive over the top to Little Tujunga.
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Recently bought a 996 with 80k miles. Owner took beautiful care of the car and serviced it all the way until he passed away. He had the LN bearing and RMS work done 10k miles before so at 70k. He also had a lot of other parts re-done with receipt and proof. I heard that LN bearings are still prone to fail so should I be scared? Need some feedback thats all! Thanks. Also any recommended warranties in the SoCal area?
There are many others with far more knowledge than mine, they will probably chime in soon. Please do not think the LN bearings are "prone to fail", that is not correct. Depending on the bearing, they have service intervals like any other part. Please confirm which bearing you have and contact LN directly, they are happy to help. You should not need to worry about the RMS for many more years. Take a deep breath, do some research and enjoy driving your car. Post pictures and enjoy the RL community.
I echo Ratchet's thoughts on this matter. I think what you're asking of the 996 community is more reassurance than just feedback. IMHO, the previous owner made the right choice for the bearing swap, but I wouldn't say they are "failure prone", unless the PO had the IMS Solution installed, then there will be a service interval. Please refer to this guide from LN engineering -
http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/
Sounds like you have a well cared for 996. Go out and enjoy it! Don't let the internet hype steal your fun out of the car!
From what I understand, the cause of IMSB failure is not so much the bearing as much as the runout on the intermediate shaft. If the intermediate shaft isn�t within runout tolerance, it won�t matter how many bearings you throw at it, it�ll just keep eating through them. There are ways to combat this, but only one sure fire fix: rebuild the engine with an updated intermediate shaft - this is the only real permanent solution; any bearing replacement, plain, ceramic ball bearing, or otherwise, is going to fail eventually when it�s at the end of a shaft with too much runout. It is unlikely that your engine has an intermediate shaft that is out of tolerance, especially now that the cars are as old as they are.
It is recommended by some that you install a magnetic oil drain plug and conduct regular and frequent oil analyses to monitor the IMSB wear and replace it when signs of its imminent failure present themselves; this becomes part of the regular scheduled maintenance and is ongoing, but seems superfluous if the IMS is within runout tolerance.
Again, if the shaft isn�t within runout tolerance, no matter the bearing, it�s going to have catastrophic failure eventually and inevitably. Replacing the IMSB as a preventative measure is a temporary and ongoing solution. That said, the replacement frequency would vary with the severity of the shaft runout and the resiliency of the bearing. One could conceivably be replacing bearings in as little as 10k miles or as many as 50k miles.
So, long story short, if your intermediate shaft isn�t within runout tolerance, your engine is going to have to come apart eventually - from catastrophic failure or as a preventative measure. Intermediate shaft bearing wear is a tell tale sign of shaft runout and your options are to replace the IMS and fix it (probably) for good, or to replace the IMSB with as much frequency as is necessary for your peace of mind.
This is my understanding from reading the available information online from several sources and coming to my own conclusions. I have a mechanical background; I�ve been trained to and have serviced and repaired various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military. I have a decent grasp of how things work from a practical perspective, however I am not a trained engineer, nor do I have any hands-on mechanical experience with any Porsche.
Runout of the IMS shafts is one of many issues with the intermediate shaft, but not the only one or the ultimate root cause. We rebuild hundreds of shafts a year and check every single one for runout. New shafts can have up to about .005" of runout from the factory and is our "wear limit" when checking shafts. If it has more than .005", we advise running an IMS Solution as it doesn't care. The part is running on a film of oil and the slight runout won't affect the IMS Solution. We'll run a solution without any concern even with .010" of runout and have for years.
Problem is you can't quantify the runout without engine disassembly, so you just have to assume your shaft is good. The only thing I can guarantee you is that if you have a catastrophic bearing failures, that failure will damage the shaft, resulting in excessive runout.
Waiting until a bearing failure presents itself is too late for bearing replacement. At that point, FOD has being spread throughout the engine and collateral damage from debris is almost a given.
Although some people say otherwise, any roller or ball bearing will have a service interval. Any bearing manufacturer will tell you that.
The IMS Solution, being a plain bearing, is designed for the life of the engine (as long as you have oil in said engine).
Ultimately, there are those who are of the mindset that they don't need to change the bearing. It's a free world and everyone can make their own decision based on the available information. Just be sure you are getting your information from a verified source and that it's factual and not based solely on opinion.
This is being repeated time and again, but should you not add that this is the case only if your oil filter bypass spring was faulty? And what is the actual failure percentage of that part? I highly doubt that it's "almost a given"-kind-of-high.
I was under the impression that the runout variance on the 996 M96 engines� intermediate shafts was especially bad - is that impression inaccurate?
Personally, I plan to do the IMS Solution. I prefer the plain bearing, especially in that particular application. But I�m not going to do it until there is a reason to drop the engine and/or transmission. My car has 23k miles on it, so I�m hoping I have a lot of driving to do before I need to replace things. But when it comes time to replace something like an IMSB, I�d like to replace those parts with superior, better performing, longer-lasting units. That�s me, though. I�m sure monitoring one�s oil and replacing the IMSB as a scheduled maintenance item works just fine for most folks.
IMSB Failure is a �sum� of all sorts of variables that create the equation. Every failure is a result of at least two things working to create a less than favorable equation.
Everyone wants to pinpoint one certain thing that creates the failure. Sorry- that doesn�t happen.
I did so much reading on this matter prior to purchase. You can look at my threads. I factored in the bearing update with the IMS solution into the cost of the car. It wasn't cheap. It is only a waste of money if I write off the car. I had a hefty bill for the IMS solution. I figure if I sell the car tomorrow, I would probably recoup a portion of it. I have no plans on selling it. I thought long and hard about a 996 vs. 997.1 vs 997.2:
996: Included the cost of the IMS update in cost of the car. Nicer interior IMHO than the 997.1. I hated the number pad for the phone and useless NAV. No one uses NAV anymore. Your phone will always have better NAV than your car.
997.1: Did not like the phone pad, silver paint, bad HVAC buttons. No spare tire. About the same cost as a 996 once I did the IMS solution. Yes, I preferred these headlights.
997.2: Seriously considered it. Long term (10 years), I think this car would cost me much more $$$$ overall than the 996. I think the driving experience (not speed) is more fun in 996. No spare tire pushed me over.
**** Spare tire and why I care: Years ago, I upgraded the brakes on my mustang. Didn't check the spare to see if it fit. Realized 5 years later that it didn't fit and updated the spare. All I could think of was being at the side of the road with my wife and dog. My wife turning to me and saying: "Really the spare doesn't fit?" Fast forward, driving a car without a spare. I can't get my head around blowing a tire on a Saturday, 500 miles from home. Having to wait until Monday to MAYBE find a 285/30/18 in some small town. At least the spare will get me either to a city or somewhere closer to home. I'm also in Canada. Let's just say retail is horrible here and I could see waiting days for a replacement.
I do have the receipt of the LN bearing change but I don't know if it was the IMS Solution or the other types of LN bearings. I will give them a call and ask what the owner put in. It was put in in 2013 so I am not sure if they had the IMS Solution at the time. To keep it noted, I will change my oil every 3-4k miles?
Is there anyone in the SoCal area that can recommend me a warranty company that will cover IMS and RMS issues. I would rather pay to have a good piece of mind while driving this beauty.
Jake Raby and the Knowledge group started a YouTube channel called "Rennvision". There are a lot of great videos that show you whats in the IMS bearing kits sold by LN Engineering. If you're interested in the IMS solution, watch their pre-qualification and installation videos they posted last month. Below are the links.
You Tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oKlgMNYOxA&t=1s
Jake Raby also contributed to PCA on the topics related to OEM IMS bearings and failure stages. Very informative stuff. Check it out...
You Tube
You Tube
I too was scared. I stayed awake nights worrying that my '03 C2s IMS might go kablooey. So, I proactively replaced the OEM IMS in my 996. I enjoyed blissful peace of mind for 7 months until the "upgrade" went kablooey.
Indy and supplier both said, "that's not my fault, but we wil happily sell/install a replacement at full price and maybe muck up the car while it's in the shop"
I had the engine rebuilt - elsewhere - and it's back on the road again. I was sorely tempted to firebomb the indy that did the upgrade, but I satisfied my desire for retribution by paying a shaman to make sure he dies of eye, kidney, liver and testicular cancer.
Moral of story: Our cars are not invincible but they are fun. If something goes bang, fix it and move on. It is still waaaaay better than driving an incredibly reliable soul-sucking Toyota.
Thanks
. The previous owner put about 10k miles on the new LN bearing that he put on before he passed away. I think I should just drive the car and worry less. The car is a beauty and maintained well. Ill probably change the oil every 4k miles just to make sure things are on top.
Also asking again, is anyone in the forums currently using a warranty that covers IMS and RMS failures in SoCal? I would pay the money to have a happy secure mind.
If you have the braided hose going from the oil filter (canister filter) to under the transmission, then I suggest you have the Solution. If you don't have that, then, who knows. Solution looks like this:
The question would be, has anyone actually
used
a (non porsche) warranty to cover an IMS or other catastrophic engine failure. I tried doing research into it and found that nearly every single warranty company had denied claims with the explanation that some trivial maintenance was missed. It would be
really
easy for a company to take premiums and then, when you try to make a claim, deny it based on something you did, or didn't do, to your car over the last 15 years.
IMHO - skip the warranty, save some money, have the LN Solution installed and drive, drive, drive. I don't know where you are on things, but I have a 99 C2 with 143K miles on my dual row bearing. Still going strong and no worries here. Change the oil and filter frequently and you will be okay.
I suppose I should take it to a Porsche specialize shop and ask them to check if I have the LN solution fitted. If not might as well get it done instead some rip off warranty?
Just an update. I called the Porsche shop and they said it�s not worth spending the money for an ims solution yet. They will get my oil changed and use a magnetic drain plug to see if there are any metal debris within the filter or what not. Then they will decide.
Did they tell you "when" it is time for an IMS solution (or any other IMS replacement option)? If they find ferrous metal debris in the filter or sump.....it may (likely) not pass the pre-inspection required for an IMS Solution install. Watch the prequal video above.
Not trying to get ahead of this as I think your car is fine but, If metal is found, it's to late and won't pass the strict prequalification standards set by FSI.
Well I have an appointment next Tuesday morning for an oil change and filter so that day will be the day. As for now, I will enjoy it as much as possible. According to the receipts from the previous owner, he maintained it like crazy and was in love with the car. He made sure everything was on top. Just a little paranoia.
Another off topic question. I currently have the turbo swirly rims on but the previous owner had a set of gt3 rims. Do they run on the same size tires? I was thinking of putting back the gt3 rims on as I like them more.
The failure rate on these cars is less than 10%. A really smart person successful person once told me, �80% is always right.� So you have another 10% margin on top of that. Plus, your bearing was replaced, which gives you more margin still.
If your bearing fails, there is nothing you could have done about it anyway.
Your bearing will not fail, I would place a bet on it.
Change your oil, inspect your filter, warm up the car before flogging it, don�t leave it undriven for long periods of time. Don�t take 20 short trips in a row never getting it up to temp. Once warmed up fully (20 mins, or water temp past 180 for 5-7 mins), rev it out and all the way up on occasion, full throttle it�s good exercise. Pay attention to any changes in sound or power, check the dipstick, and you are good. I would not worry.
My 99 had an LN bearing done, along with water pump, AOS, LT thermostat and a host of other preventative stuff done 20k miles ago. My plan is to drive the **** out of it on the weekends, carving canyons. If it goes boom, I�m calling FSI. Otherwise I�m not gonna lay awake at night worrying. Don�t know if that�s of any use to you, but they�re just cars. Why stress about it? If it breaks, fix it. 😁
This forum has been the most supportive and most informative forum ever. You guys are so nice and uplifting, I am more at ease now. Thank you guys so much and I will give an update on Tuesday once my mechanic checks the car out and has done the oil change.
Also from what I see suggested, anything below a 3k rev line is dangerous? I live in LA, the traffic is going to be tough to rev above 3k even in 1st gear. Yikes. I'm going to avoid low revving as much as possible then I suppose??
Your making too much sense here. Stop it. You cant help sell parts for the 996 POS cars that they are if you dont scare people with 51 modes of failure.
It�s too dark out to take a photo at the moment but I will tomorrow! Here are some of the service records done. Believe or not even after the owner passed, his wife serviced the car all the way until 2018 for sentimental reasons! This car was properly maintained.
Like, for instance, an engine?
Don't worry about your car, you have a rebuilt engine with only 8500 miles on it, that the PO spent over $25,000 on.
Mine is similar, rebuilt short block at 125,000km, now has 150,000km on the odo. I was lucky and the PO got one bored out to a 3.6; with Nickies, JE forged pistons etc.
Just have fun. Keep it under 3k rpm until the coolant temp stabilises and the oil pressure drops to close to 1 on idle, then open it up.
Thanks! I just realized that he changed the entire engine not just the LN bearings and RMS. I guess I technically have a new engine or something close to it. I will def have some fun with it but will take care of it like a baby.
Hold on. Just saw your receipts. That�s a new engine not just a new IMS. House is a trusted shop. Breath easy. Also don�t worry about driving below 3k rpm. Just don�t lug it in 4th gear. But that applies to any engine.
“Authorize R&I radiators, clean coolant pipes and reflush coolant system”.
Sounds like he may have had an AOS failure or intermix and thus the replacement engine. Good news is you could probably call House and learn alot more about this car. I’d say you got very lucky with this purchase.
Enjoy the heck out of your 996!
IMS FOR SALE.
I have a 2003 Targa with 74,000 miles, decided to drop engine and do bearing and seal swap before any issues.
Pulled it apart and found out that bearing was different.
Upon Inspection found out I had a new engine fitted in 2010 under warrantee at 49,000 miles by Porsche. Its the newer engine so IMS is not an issue.
I had talked to the dealer before and asked why they did not tell me, there explanation was they only keep records for 2 yrs, go figure?.
NEW KIT FOR SALE
So I have a LN kit and a new oem seal , I paid $547 for all as I had a coupon, the LN kits are now $650 plus seal $48 ( $698) value
I will seal all for
$490 to member.
I have photos and receipt, brand new, along with registration card for kit, I can send photos.
John
No, don�t be scared of anything. It�ll seriously cut into your enjoyment of a great car. Looks like you�re close to the Arcadia area. You have some of the best roads in the world in your back yard. Go drive the snot out of it and be happy!
PS, I recommend taking Angeles Forest Hwy all the way up to Aliso Cyn, hang a left through Acton, Soledad Cyn all the way to Sand Canyon, hang another left and drive over the top to Little Tujunga. Dumps you back out at the 210. It�s 100 mile loop of awesomeness in a 911 😁. Magnus Walker turned us on to this route. It�s great. Zero traffic to contend with.
Nope.
It�s easy to conflate a common failure item with a common event.
Some people never have any AOS issues, ever. Aint broke, don�t fix it. Sometimes no good deed goes unpunished. Some replace a failed AOS with one that doesn�t solve their problem.
If it does break, it�s a common failure item though. And if you already have the engine out of the car, there are some things people like to replace proactively. That�s different.
Yep, you should stop worrying and just enjoy the car.
Owning a car that is this much fun to drive and generally costs less than a slightly used Camry or Civic is a wonderful thing.
Why lose sleep? Drive it. Love it. Yes, it might blow up tomorrow. But unless you spent your life savings to buy it, what's the big deal?
I feel you. I'm a bit on a paranoid side myself. As far as AOS, I make myself feel better by regularly measuring vacuum to monitor health of AOS. There is a great thread in here somewhere that shows how to build a slack tube manometer to measure vacuum, or you can buy a digital one.
I know this one is expensive, but I noticed this one was recommended by Raby and so I thought I'd share...
https://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/...1-MFG1245.aspx
For Sale IMS bearing kit
I have a 2003 Targa with 74,000 miles, decided to drop engine and do bearing and seal swap before any issues.
Pulled it apart and found out that bearing was different.
Upon Inspection found out I had a new engine fitted in 2010 under warrantee at 49,000 miles by Porsche. Its the newer engine so IMS is not an issue.
I had talked to the dealer before and asked why they did not tell me, there explanation was they only keep records for 2 yrs, go figure?.
NEW KIT FOR SALE
So I have a LN kit and a new oem seal , I paid $547 for all as I had a coupon, the LN kits are now $650 plus seal $48 ( $698) value
I will seal all for
$490 to member.
I have photos and receipt, brand new, along with registration card for kit, I can send photos.
John
One other thing. So far the car has been amazing but its last oil change was this Feb. However, after that oil change, the car barely drove over 1k miles. Should I still change the oil? Its been 6+ months but less than 1k miles.
You can check out my slightly humorous IMS and 996 love story on my blog if you would like. If you have any questions about what I did, feel free to contact me. Read from the beginning so as not to ruin the �punchline�
IMS blog
