My Milkshake Brings all the Boys to the Yard....

After being a fear monger rebuker for years it happened.. Intermix.. Coolant Light started flashing yesterday during the 1 mile commute to drop my daughters off at school. No leaks on the garage floor, no smells, no smoke. I drove right back home and pulled the coolant reservoir cap to find butterscotch shake (and low coolant level at that) There is also raw unmixed oil? I pulled the dipstick and cap to find yellow foam in the fill tube (which isn't normal for my car because I drive it 70-100 miles per day all interstate.) and off colored milky oil from on the dipstick.. I am pretty devastated right now.. Weighing my options. From my research it is one of three things, but most likely worst case scenario.. 1) Oil Heat Exchanger (fat chance I'm not that lucky) 2) AOS (Definetly not that lucky) 3) Cracked Head or Cyl sleeve (that's more like my luck) Options for me... after flushing out the shake... 1) Pull engine, test AOS and Oil Heat exchanger, if they are bad say a thankful prayer and replace those parts and anything else that is easy when the engine is out 2) Pull the engine, test the above, when it isn't them, yank the heads off and find the crack, send the head off for repair.. put it back together and keep motoring.. 3) Buy a wrecked one and yank the motor, pray that it doesn't crap out without warning a few days or months later.. 4) LS swap.. 5) Save my pennies for a total rebuild. Let the car sit unused for about 2 years. Get harassed by my wife daily about the car sitting there in the garage being a paperweight.. 6) Take a serious loss and sell it as is.. From the looks of my photos which failure point appears to be the most realistic..?

Yikes. Good luck. I hope it's not as bad as you're fearing, but I agree that it doesn't look good.

sorry to hear but your engine - FYI if it is any help, there is long time fellow RL'er selling nice 2003 996 C2 59K mile engine with upgraded IMS bearing only 17K miles ago for $10K. https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...seats-etc.html

From what I've read, The LS Swap is over $20k.

I forgot to mention mine is a 1999 C2. I don't think the 3.6 goes in easy does it?

Since you've got a '99 C2, you have a mechanical throttle, so you won't be able to use an e-gas engine without additional modifications. Note that this would involved far fewer modifications than an LSx swap. I wouldn't recommend the LSx swap unless you're able to do a great deal of the work yourself OR you have deep pockets and don't mind spending a bunch of money on labor. I think digging into the suspects you have listed in sections 1 and 2 and sending things out for repair is the most economical option. On the plus side, you _could_ address some other internal maintenance items (tensioners, a certain bearing, etc.) at the same time and be relatively confident that you'll be good for a while. Really sorry this happened. Many of us have the urge to be monger deniers until something bad happens - that's just the nature of the beast. If it does turn out to be a cracked head, be sure to check the water pump for damage - maybe you have some debris and got the localized hotspot cracking the Internet has warned us about.

How much DIY vs paying a shop? With only a shake - options 1 & 2 make the most sense 5 leads to divorce. 2 years becomes 3 and then 4 and 5

Sorry to hear that. Agree with dgjks6. Before removing anything, you may want to use a 2-stage block kit to confirm it's a cracked head and it's not AOS or oil/air heat exchanger. You may also want to do a leak down test to confirm which cylinder before you remove the heads...should make finding the crack easier.

Thanks to all, I'm not familiar with a stage 2 block kit. I am bent but not broken over this. Luckily for me this is one of 4 cars at our home, so I have other options and am not really in a bind. Was really hoping for a great summer of driving though.

Sorry, it's block test kit. 2-stage minimzes false detection. You use it on the coolant tank. Amazon.com: UVIEW 560000 Combustion Leak Tester: Automotive Amazon.com: UVIEW 560000 Combustion Leak Tester: Automotive

Quotes source post: 13098245

Ordered! Thanks

Quotes source post: 13097962

Truer words have never been spoken. Been there and I feel the OP's pain. The pics don't look good. Here is an option. http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-Carrera-R...item3f5da08e6d

Quotes source post: 13098399

That's a great option and free shipping too. I've dealt with that vendor many times and never had any issues FWIW. Even though it's from a '00 egas, you can transfer over your non-egas items without any issues. Also, you maybe able to get close to 10% off that if you contact them directly.

I saw that one. My fear is that the same failure is just looming around the corner.. My car was meticulously maintained and this still happened.. I can pick up a wrecked c2 for well under that if I was going to gamble on a used engine.

Visual of the Patient...

Beautiful! Did you ever replace the AOS? https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post12486712 Also did you replace/check the water pump? From some past threads your engine seems to run hot? If the leak test comes out negative, I would definitely check the AOS next. Unbolt it from the engine but leave the coolant hoses connected, then pressurize the coolant tank and feel/see for trace of coolant leaking out.

Quotes source post: 13098538

Great looking lawn ornament you have there. Hopefully she'll be back in action soon.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, I also have a 99 and I am praying I dont get this, specially after changing the clutch and other things... What mileage do you have? If its the cracked heads, this is a $1200 - $1500 repair job if you work on it yourself and send the head to a reputable machine shop... Member Dharn55 on RL had a similar experience and he sent his head to costa mesa machine R&D and everything turned out good for him. If you are going to work on the car yourself, I would do a flush ASAP to clean all the cooling system. Here is his post https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ad-repair.html

Quotes source posts: 13098718, 12486712

I changed the water pump, and it looked fine, the car never really got hot and the water temps were technically in range. I didn't change the AOS as I was waiting for the clutch and transmission mount job I had planned in April. I do have the part.

Ok, will see what the leak test says then. Good luck with it.

I just used the leak check last week....here is my write up with a few pictures. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post13078602 Fingers crossed for you!

Well, there's always insurance fraud, DIY write up here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...g-our-m96.html Or, save yourself a lot of wrenching: sell the carcass for $6,000 and buy Gator's car for $16,000. If it happens again, rinse and repeat.

Quotes source post: 13097981

+996 I sold my last project car last spring. After nearly 8 years of headaches, bitching wife (granted she was justified) and 996tt money invested, I never got it back on the street and finally sold it for $12,000. I will never ever have another project car. What you've got yourself there is a project car. Sell it and let it be someone else's project car. You're welcome.

If you do a search you will see that a cracked head on early 996.1 is no longer considered a catastrophic event or very expensive to repair There are some people that insist this is a full tear down and $10-$15k repair but the majority have done the head repair for $1.5k and have driven their cars now for ten plus years with absolutely no problems Read up dharn55 post If indeed you have a cracked head - consider it a relatively inexpensive repair that's pretty reliably resolved

It's cheaper to fix a cracked head than it is to retrofit the damn bearing.

Ok, news.... I performed the chemical combustion leak check.. And the car passed. I let it run up to about 120 degrees and then performed the test, it came back clean, I tried to rev it a few times and did the test and it came back clean. The reservoir took 40 + ounces just to get to the min Mark. The oil has gotten much more coolant mixed in since sitting. The level is really high and milky... The coolant drained... I am assuming I can assume from this test it is either the oil cooler or the AOS? Insight would be well received. I have a glimmer of hope here. I have seen people say get it up to temp, but I am really scared to run it too long with compromised oil

Here is after the test... I did it multiple times.

Water is not a good lubricant and I would be worried about running the engine with that "stuff" in it. I know that makes diagnosis difficult, but at the expense of the engine bearings, etc. I would not be running the engine. Just MO.

I think the next logical steps are leak test the AOS and the oil/coolant heat exchanger. Then leak down test on the cylinders (100PSI). You can disconnect the two corrugated air vent hoses connected to the AOS but leave the two skinny coolant lines connected. Then pressurize the coolant tank to 18PSI (don't go above that) and feel for coolant leak inside the AOS. Then you can remove the oil/coolant heat exchanger and bench test it for leak.

I am going to pull the motor on Monday. I wanted to do the clutch anyway, so might as well pull it for access. At that point I will bench test the AOS and the oil cooler. I am feeling a little better like it may not be the head..

Everything would be a lot easier with the engine removed for sure. Keep us posted and keeping my fingers crossed for you.

RRTEC.... sorry... that sucks. I hope it all works out okay. I loved my 996 NA, but the monger threats and "it happened to me today" threads got me spooked. That's when I went to the 996TT. I have not looked back and sleep better at night. But I do hope it works out for you.

Going to start pulling the engine out tonight.... At the store getting bags to label everything. Should be an interesting experience.

I feel your pain. When intermix happened on my 99 I sold it and moved on. That was 5 years ago and there are more options and much better understood choices now. Have it professional diagnosed carefully, skip the DIY diagnostics pay for a pro who has experiences fixing 996 intermixes.

Put 2.5 hours in today. Everything top side is done. Fluids are draining. Tomorrow I will finish it up, it will probably take me another 2.5 hours to get it done. Can anyone point me in the direction of the bench test procedure for the air oil separator and the oil cooler? Thanks.

Quotes source post: 13124987

Well that image brings back memories. Do you have enough room to drop the motor?

Yeah, it was a lot higher than that picture made it look...

NICE! You made it look easy peasy. Hope this helps. 996 Oil Cooler Pressure Test - YouTube

Sorry to see that bro. I had the same problem and it ended up being the drivers side head being cracked. After doing some research apparently it's always the driver side that ends up being cracked. I ordered a new head and we're on our way to riding off into the sunset soon. Best of luck bro...

I have lots I need to investigate.. 1- check out the raw oil that was in my coolant... 2- should the dual mass flywheel be able to be moved by hand.. Like I can move the part that the clutch bolts two back and forth independently from the rest of the flywheel.. 3- how on earth am I going to clean out the many oil passages etc? 4- pretty overwhelmed by my inabilty to find a conclusive reason for so much oil in the coolant and vice Versa. 5- I know my AOS is bad, I had prior symptoms but I cannot see how it would cause a dual intermix issue.. The buckets below are coolant with oil floating on top.. That's what came out of the cooling system 5-

Dual mass flywheel worn new vs Old - YouTube

I am going to take the oil cooler to a rad shop to have it tested as I do not have the fittings like in the video posted .. I am feeling like that isn't the problem though, I filled it up with blue dyed water on one side last night and there was no leak down.. of course it wasn't under any pressure. The AOS was a disaster with raw oil in the coolant lines, and massive amounts of yellow and brown intermix all on the inside including the oil passage into the block. tracing the lines around there is a massive amount of oil build up on the front of 4-6 and the back of 1-3 where the AOS vents. I can't wrap my head around HOW that would cause intermix though.. Unless it was able to siphon oil from the pan? but that still doesn't explain a lot of stuff.. I don't know. My intake had some oil in it and round the seals but not much. Looking more and more like I am going to have to tear into the engine and look for cracks on the heads?

Maybe at least test the AOS coolant nipples. Block one and use a hand pump to pressurize the other one and see if it holds pressure (not to exceed 17PSI). But yeah even if it leaks, it can only prove coolant in oil. Hard to see how oil get into coolant if it's not the oil/coolant heat exchanger, other than a cracked head.

This was mine BTW. Drivers side head crack by # 1 and my intermixed reservoir..

Billy Boat mufflers!!! Nice!! Mine came with them too and looked exactly like your pick when I pulled the engine BOTH times (i used a red ATV jack). You can set up a rig to pressurize the AOS and the oil cooler at home or find a shop that can test them for you (usually radiator shops can do both).

Want to see some more head cracks!

After all iive researched and continued research a cracked head is definetly fixable and realtively affordable if you do it right.

The last one was mine back in 2008. The others are from people that I helped work on their intermixes. They are all on the inner exhaust valve spring seat on cylinder #1 ( drivers side back of the car). I had mine repaired by Costa Mesa R&D in 2009. At that time they charged me $500 including a valve job. I have another 35,000 miles on the engine since I fixed it and it is still running strong. The goop in both my oil and coolant was much worse than yours. To clean the engine oil side I let it drip out while I had the head and pan off. Then when reassembled I filled it with regular oil (non-synthetic, too expensive) and ran it for a few miles, drained it and replaced it. I did this two or three times before I went to synthetic. The coolant side is more work. I to the radiators off and had them hot flushed, cleaned out the hard lines with rags on wires, replaced a couple but not all the hoses. Then I ran the engines with water, drained it and refilled it several times. Then filled it with coolant and over a few weeks drained and filled it again a couple of times. I still get traces of oil in the coolant, remnants from the contamination. The contamination in the AOS can be from the contamination in the coolant. To test my oil cooler I used rubber plugs on one side and soapy water on the other. Used my compressor with a fitting on one of the rubber plugs and got over 50lbs of pressure in it. Of course there was no problem with it. They are almost never the source of this intermix. I also heated it up in an over to over 200 degrees and retested it as some people say the leaks may not show up unless it is close to operating temperature. If I was you the first thing I would do is to remove the spark plug tube on cylinder #1 to determine if you can see a crack as they usually extend down the chase for the spark plug. If you cant see it then remove the cams, the lifters and the lifter body and look again. I will bet you a beer (although you will have to come to the Chicago area to collect) that you find the crack there.

Quotes source post: 13133718

Looks like mine! Wow! I wouldn't never known that this is a common issue with the 996's. Lesson learned!

I had a rad shop test the oil cooler, it passed. The head is looking like the culprit. Question: when removing the heads is it needed to lock them? Seems like I could remove them without holding them in place? I will buy the tools to reassemble but was wondering if I needed them to take it apart.

Quotes source post: 13133927

Yes, you need to park the engine at TDC cyl #1 and lock the cams first because the cam cover is also the bearings supporting the cams.

By the way I have a brand new head that I picked up a few years after I fixed my intermix. It is the 1-3 side. Head, valves and Springs with cam cover. You would have to use your own lifter body, lifters, cams, etc. These list for $3,135.20 today. I am asking $1,400 plus shipping. It has been sitting in my workroom for several years no.

^^wow thats a sweet offer^^ nothing like the RL family when someone is in need

I stopped working for the night after breaking 2 exhaust manifold bolts off in the head... Frustrated and tired..

Kroil + impact gun. Less likely to break them.

How is the head repaired? Is the crack through a channel that is welded on both sides? It looks like the crack is on a solid chunk of metal and am surprised such a small crack lets through so much oil or coolant.

My guess would be they drill holes at the end of the crack to stop the crack migration, then prepare the crack to accept an epoxy (appropriate for this environment) and then clen up the critical machined areas. Am I close?

Quotes source post: 13133987

x2 That's two great offers to help out fellow RL'ister this week so far. wow.

Thread title- LMAO. You are making good progress, best of luck on the repair!

Agree that $1400 is a bargain for a new head. Very nice offer Doug. Best option... OP should you go the used head route, make sure you get the camshaft caps as they are machined with the heads. (Ask me how I know this )

Quotes source post: 13133968

I'm interested for sure. I'm finalizing my plans next week.

When I had my cracked head in 2008 I looked at 2 or 3 other used heads, and every one of them was also cracked in the same place, so you have to be careful with used heads. The repair done on my head by Costa Mesa R&D was welded and resurfaced, it was not an epoxy repair. Now in 2008 repairing these heads was not commonly done. I talked to my mechanic and the local dealer and they all said I needed a new engine. I even talked with Jake Raby, who was very helpful and nice. But at that point in time he also siad that the head could not be repaired and the intermix meant there would be other damage to the engine and I needed to replace the engine. I think he was just starting to work on these repairs then, he does them all the time now. I bought the new head on eBay from a racing shop on a whim, just in case I needed it in the future. I am always buying this kind of stuff on eBay and if you are careful and know what you are doing you can get some real deals. I once bought a brand new Porsche OEM dual mass flywheel for $60 shipped. It sat under my desk for 3-4 years until I needed it When I had a clutch replacement. I had that done by a local indy and when he called to say I needed a new flywheel I told him to look in the trunk, there was one there :-). Another time I picked up a brand new 1-3 cam advance mechanism for $100. I ended up selling it to another member for $150, he was quite happy to get it for that price. I missed the 4-6 side because I typed in $10 instead of $100. You see the heads on Ebay without the cam cover, or the cam covers without the heads all the time. But they are matched sets. They are line bored so you need the match set. Good luck to those of you doing intermix repairs!! If you need some advice contact me.

Quotes source post: 13133968

Can you email me some additional pictures to [email removed] ? This head was manufactured after 2006. Correct? PM when you have a chance...

I am not even considering used.. It's either fix mine or new. I don't want to go through this anytime soon.

Quotes source post: 13137968

Good luck w/ the fix. My was crack so bad that it couldn't be fix.

Quotes source post: 13137289

Just checking to see if you received my merge yesterday. I'm interested in your new heads for sale. Thanks..

Well there is definetly a crack on the #1 cyl head. It is visible and can be felt.

Where is the crack in the picture? It's not obvious to me....at least you found the issue which is good, I think. Best of luck!

Quotes source post: 13143028

There is a dark line at 8:00 if the spark plug hole was a clock.. Cams out.. Keeper is next.

Quotes source post: 13143284

I could see it now after you pointed it out even though that line is out of focus. Hopefully you could get it repaired without too much pain. It's a good opportunity to replace those variocam pads now that the cams are off.

Crack from #1 to valve.

Next steps... Order crap load of parts, repair the head or buy new.. Clean everything.

Did you clean the cyl #1 piston top? Wondering if that's steam cleaned by the coolant.

Quotes source post: 13145175

Yeah I cleaned #1. They were all filthy..

Surprise surprise. Cylinder #1, inner exhaust valve seat. So do you think there was a design flaw here?

By the way, I bought one of these when I worked on my engine. https://www.pepboys.com/product/details/1196746/00745 For $48 on sale it is a great deal. It will adjust to fit the transmission/bell housing bolt holes. It makes it so much easier to work on the engine and to drain out the oil and coolant.

For those of you following along at home I wanted to share where I am in this financially for the things you don't think about...the while you are in there stuff. Head Bolts: $230 Head Gaskets: $120 Various hoses: $150 RMS: $45 Water Pump:$80 Spark Plugs: $80 VarioCam pads: ? Tools (timing): $200 AOS:$90 Clutch:$400 DM Flywheel: $500 Starter: $230 Transmission Mount: $100 Around $2200 in ancillaries.. Unknowns: Head repair: ? IMS bearing:? Feeling pretty financially raped.

Are you sure your flywheel is bad? A $80 water pump...is that a typo?

Quotes source post: 13145766

I have over 1 1/4 of play in the flywheel (back and forth) something I read said you should only have 15mm? It's not loose but has tons of movement. I found a metal impeller water pump and gasket for $80. I did forget to include the intake manifold gaskets, vacuum hoses, spark plug tubes, etc

"I found a metal impeller water pump and gasket for $80. " A very bad way to save a few dollars.

Quotes source post: 13145624

Most of those are maintenance or elective PM items so far so they don't really count in my books. So far the original issue still awaits you.

Quotes source post: 13146424

What do they typically cost? Saw this one, it ticked the boxes.. New, metal impeller. What else should we be looking for? My current pump has no markings or castings. The one I had before the current one on the car had no branding either. http://www.ebay.com/itm/390703583595

In most cars, water pumps are not such a big deal. They break, you replace them. With 996's, a broken water pump could cost you an engine. There have been posts here by respected and knowledgeable members suggesting that metal impellers are a bad idea for our cars. Not being an expert, I defer to their judgement. I wouldn't use anything but OEM.

Quotes source post: 13146797

Go OEM or go home when it comes to a critical item like this. You definitely do not want to go metal as you don't want to be replacing a block.

Well now I'm confused because I had read that plastic impellers were the devil... Is there by chance a biodegradable nerf option?

This (OEM) http://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/9...MFG2244-V.aspx or ~$250 OE from sunsetporscheparts.com Plastic (composite) blade pump is fine as long as you replace it say every 5yrs.

Quotes source post: 13147087

Plastic impellers can be the devil IF you don't: keep up with your coolant flushes, use quality/correct coolant, go with the normal maintenance schedule and keep it in there until something happens, or use generic WP's that uses substandard plastics. I've been uses plastic WP in BMW's for years and never had the issues you see on the internet which is always usually a story behind it that falls into one of the categories I've mentioned above.

That makes sense.. In my BMW's I always swapped to metal impellers. But a metal to metal contact sounds bad too..

Quotes source post: 13145624

New Bosch starter $192 here Amazon.com: Bosch SR0808N New Starter: Automotive Amazon.com: Bosch SR0808N New Starter: Automotive

Buy the 997 water pump, it was updated from the 996 pump if I remember correctly. I used it for my rebuild.

Dropped off the head at German Performance Options locally in Nashville for them to see if they think it is repairable. fingers crossed. I tried to contact Costa Mesa R & D but the website leads to a dead email and the phone went to VM.

Quotes source post: 13153341

Good luck...

Did you try to Google Costa Mesa R&D? Here is their site. http://www.engine-machining.com/

Quotes source post: 13155098

Yeah I called and tried to email. Email went to dead link (returned to my inbox undeliverable) and phone rang to voicemail. I left a message and haven't heard back.

Have you thought about going the "Nickies" route? I know they are really expensive but if you plan on keeping your car for a few years it's really not that much more.

Quotes source post: 13155126

Exact same experience for me. Don't think they care about new business much...

Sent the head off to Hoffman machine shop in Georgia. Jake trusts them, and they have been super amazing to deal with so far!

Quotes source post: 13187118

Any news (Don't mean to hassle) but curious that's all?

That is really all I have so far. I have been collecting parts for the last month and trying to make a decision on the head. So far I have snagged all the tools needed to put the car back together and the following service items. NSK dual row bearing AOS Clutch Head gaskets Intake gaskets Still need to buy: Water pump Starter Exhaust gaskets Fluids Flywheel Still to do: Take passenger head to local shop for stud removal Clean up everything...

Len emailed me today and let me know that my head was eligible for the basic repair as my guides were in "very good shape" ! They may have it done this week!

Quotes source post: 13192501

That's great news and glad to hear you're happy with Len. I'm gonna send my 3.6 heads to him hopefully this weekend for rebuild.

Bought $1000 worth of stuff today. AOS IMS parts seals etc RMS Head gaskets Intake gaskets Exhaust gaskets Spark plug tubes Transmission mount. Head bolts Getting ready to start buttoning this up.

Quotes source post: 13147787

Sorry to hijack but this is the first time I've seen anyone mention using a 997 water pump in a 996. Does anyone know the difference between the two?

I read that 997 impeller is 67mm and 996 is 65mm. Both impellers are made from composite. There may be other differences I'm not aware of. Maybe Pelican can elaborate?

Actually no, this 997 pump is an upgrade for 996 is a myth and was discussed before. The 997 water pump (with 997.xxx p/n) is never meant for our 996s. You can check the PET or autoatlanta site for the latest p/n of the 996 water pump. It is 99610601157. http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=105-00

Ashai a myth huh? Possibly. My 997 pump has run 30,000 miles with no issues.

Quotes source post: 13199544

A myth in a sense that it's not per Porsche's reco (as shown in the autoatlanta site). I know the 997 pump fits the 996 albeit a larger diameter. One member here actually bought the 997 pump from ECS tuning. He spun it by hand after installing it but before firing up the engine. He clearly felt the blades scrapping the engine block and ECS tuning overnighted the latest 996 pump for him.

Quotes source post: 13198117

Thanks for the update, appreciate it O-Sr

Quotes source post: 13202120

Len @ Hoffman sent the head via UPS truck today. That was a great experience! Highly recommend. Will post pictures when it shows up...

Yay! Parts are showing up!!

Beautiful repair! Good luck with the reassembling and keep us posted!

Wow - looking at all those parts i take it you won't be doing too many bong hits prior to assembly?

Looking good!

Quotes source post: 13202159

Looks good - the re assembly is getting close. Well done and thanks

Quotes source post: 13214338

Did you end up getting the head repaired?

Quotes source post: 13214892

Read posts #97, #100 and #109.

I wish you the best of luck! I had the same problem but my head couldn't be repaired. What cylinder was it? Mine was cylinder #1, which apparently is the one that usually cracks, that or #2. I needed up buying a new head directly from Porsche that from my understanding is casted in much stronger material and is preassembled w/ new valves ready for install. I also needed up having my passenger-side head resurfaced and re-vavled, new set of gaskets, new water pump, thermostat, oil exchanger, plugs, coilpacks, and had whole system flushed from front, heatercore, mid, to rear to remove any intermix. My 996 now runs even better than it did when I first bought it. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Good luck!

Love looking at new shiney stuff. I noticed a pic with the heat exchanger / oil cooler. It's a good idea to get a new one if you haven't done so. Best of luck with the reassembly!

Am I seeing lint on the lens or does there still appear to be a hairline crack at 5pm?

Quotes source post: 13214975

That is a carbon copy of my crack... I bet Hoffman could have repaired. Glad to hear yours is back up!

Quotes source post: 13215022

Probably a tooling Mark, that isn't where the crack was. They really went to town on it. I ended up at a little over $1000 in the head work.

Quotes source post: 13215112

If you don't mind me asking, how much did they charge you for the repair? I ended up keeping the head and I was just thinking about throwing it on eBay. If it could be repaired by them, I wouldn't mind sending it to them.

Quotes source post: 13215238

Right around $1000 door to door.

Quotes source post: 13215263

Not bad. Do you know if they buy cracked heads? What's their contact information? I might give them a call...

Is this the "tooling mark" we're talking about? It looks like a hairline crack in the photo, but obviously you'd be able to see it much more clearly up close.

Nice work. It's all downhill from here on. Have any pictures what the weld looked like before machining?

Ill take a look when I get home. It definitely passed the pressure test etc. I don't have any photos during the process.

Quotes source post: 13215273

I will shoot him an email.

Quotes source post: 13215273

Len from Hoffman Automotive Machine. He specializes in aluminum heads and he does all the head work for Jake Raby's engines. 'nuff said Will be sending my 3.6 heads to him for a rebuild this week. http://www.hamincgroup.com/main.php

Quotes source post: 13215273

I just shot an email to Len, he said they do buy damaged heads. And said he would be interested if you have the matching valve cover and cam caps! shoot him an email at: [email removed] . He looked at the picture with the circled area and said ". I see the pic with the nick from the deburring tool we use to break the edges after the machine work. We do that to make sure the plastic spark plug sleeve o-ring slides into the head without getting torn. Nothing to worry about. It happens sometimes."

Ah... Cool, it obviously wasn't in a valve itself, but I wasn't sure what that hole was for (spark plug - pretty obvious now but not at the time)... Great to hear it won't cause you any problems. Looking forward to when you get it all put back together and running!

Quotes source post: 13215574

Thanks! I'll email the right away...

Quotes source post: 13215574

I emailed 12 pictures to the email address that you provided me. Would you mind letting Len know that an email being sent from Michael Charles was sent a few mins ago? Thanks...

Quotes source post: 13219798

Let us know what the offer is.

Quotes source post: 13219814

For sure!

Quotes source post: 13219848

I had a very great conversation w/ Len at Hoffman Automotive Machine a few mins ago. They will buy any cracked head that comes w/ the valve cover, intake cap, and exhaust cap for $250. Well, the way I see it, it's $250 that I didn't have, haha... Hoffman Automotive Machine Len 1461 Greensboro HWY Watkinsville, GA 30677 [phone removed]

Quotes source post: 13219998

Who covers the shipping?

Head gaskets, intake gaskets, cam end caps, loctite, timing chain pads.... Only short a few more things and then I can start putting this thing back together.

Quotes source post: 13222148

Well fortunately I have a FedEx and UPS account number but to my understanding it's the seller's responsibility.

Quotes source post: 13222169

Sounds like someone's going to be busy over the weekend

Cleaned up the valve cover..

Quotes source post: 13223529

Well that cuts into the $250 then. I would imagine at least $50 if not more.

Quotes source post: 13225004

I do receive a discount but shipping out via ground services should be under $20. I wouldn't ship it via Postal...

Quotes source post: 13224923

Super clean!!

Quotes source post: 13226168

I would almost bet that Len would cover shipping.. Even to get it to him he sent me a label..

You did a great job cleaning that cam cover. Good to see I'm not alone Btw, I found how Len repairs these cracks. It's far more sophisticated than drilling a few holes and fill the crack haha. Also it should prevent reoccurance as the original stress is relieved. http://www.hamincgroup.com/blog/pors...7-crack-repair

Picked up my other head from the local head shop. Passed the pressure test, repaired the broken studs. Huge difference in service between my local guys, and Hoffmann. I will never send my stuff anywhere other than Hoffmann from now on..

Heads are all ready to assemble! I am going to start researching the liquid gasket procedures for reassembly. Not really sure where all it is supposed to go..

What was the issue with you local shop? They didn't mediablast the head?

I'm late to the party. You can verify that the welds are good with a dye penetrate test. I was a welder for several years and this is the most accessible/easy non destructive test method you can use to check a weld. Good luck! Dye Penetrant Inspection - YouTube

Quotes source post: 13291750

Yeah I paid for a hot tank/degrease and it came back filty. And they put a huge gash in the valve cover.

Did you bring to their attention?

Don't forget to seal the bearing saddles on the heads aswel as all around the outer edge as otherwise you will get oil leaking through the fixing bolts when it's all assembled, same on engine casing halves if there's a bolt hole on the gasket perimeter seal it both sides but don't gunk up the threads , I got a porsche manual off eBay for like £10 which I used for my whole build (it shows gasket sealing areas on diagrams) along with YouTube and help from my indie and here!! If you can't get I can probably send you the pages you need if you let me know!!

Did you keep track of which lifter came out of which bore in each lifter body? This is important as they wear to the body. In my case I bought all new lifters as several of mine were bad.

Gotta love all the tech input! Way to go guys!

I have to ask - Have you made any progress, you sounded a bit daunted (& I was not surprised) in your last posts? Hope all is well.. Oil_SlickRick

Quotes source post: 13380873

Small progress, got my manual, bought an engine stand. I plan to change the Ims next weekend.

any update

Quotes source post: 13436367

I have been stalled completely. I destroyed my knee and had to have a knee surgery. Good side of it is I have been ordering more and more parts. The more this is delayed the more new stuff I am going to have to install. I hope to be back on my feet in a few weeks and back out in the garage.

Quotes source post: 13457611

Ouch! I wish you a speedy recovery! The engine can wait.

Hopefully it's the right knee?

Quotes source post: 13459022

Reminds me of a joke.....if it ain't the right knee and it ain't the left knee it's gotta be the we-knee. Yes it's Monday morning and I'm 12.

Quotes source post: 13459022

Fortunately it is my left knee. The surgeon expects full range of motion so driving a manual transmission car shouldn't prove to be a problem. I didn't have a knee replacement as it were, it was a meniscus removal, ACL donor replacement, and fractured patella repair.

What happened?

Quotes source post: 13459272

You will be fine. My Father had 2 knees done at the same time in November. He just got back from a 28 mile bike ride. He rides and swims every day. Keep your weight down and stay active with no heavy lifting on that particular joint.

Quotes source posts: 13459022, 13459304

Wish I had a cool story, but I don't. I was at an indoor trampoline park with my kids, tried to dunk a basketball like Jordan and landed way wrong. An onlooker made sure to tell me that I "missed the shot" when describing the event to my family and management...

That sucks. Major injuries, especially broken ankles, are pretty common at those places. It's not near as traumatic but I got my thumb jammed by one of the employees that was playing dodgeball like Roger Clements at one. A year later and it's still gorked up. Speedy recovery!

Quotes source post: 13459316

Lawd! There's always one in the crowd that loves nothing more than to add insult to injury. Ha! Hope you have a speedy recovery.

Quotes source post: 13459316

Fun time is over. Rehab is about 60% of success with knee repair(various methods). Start slow, work small stuff but long. Interesting you went with an allograft. It'll be a year before you're dunking again.

Quotes source posts: 13459022, 13460554

Not that I can change my mind now. But is the surprise good or bad in reference to the allograft. My surgeon highly recommended it vs the alternative. I don't plan on dunking or jumping ever again... Accepting my age and finding some appropriate activities..

Best of luck with your eventual rehab. It will suck for awhile, but don't allow it to control your life. Did my Achilles 2/15 and used crutches for 10 weeks. PT will do wonders for you.

Quotes source post: 13460884

Cadaver tissue is - well, it's from a cadaver. It's living tissue from a source which you had, nor have any control over. Now it's in you with all that implies. This is not a surgical issue, more of a sociological issue, but it's done now. Also recommend a PT/INR test soon, and possibly a blood thinner depending on the results. Have someone test the surface temp of your foot compared to the other foot, and keep an eye out for color changes compared to the non-repaired side.

Well it's been 7 months since the "incident". Due to an injury I haven't made much progress at all in the last 3-4 months. I have everything I need to put it back together. And I mean everything I literally am replacing everything. I was in the garage today staring at almost $7000 in parts sitting on my workbenches. I have been a little depressed recently. I thought it was from feeling useless, having to have people take care of me, etc but I realized that it's cool car withdrawal. Our other cars aren't fast or fun (Volvo xc90, Honda Fit, and a 65 F100). My 1965 truck is cool, but it's also not fast...I have a large single turbo 302 engine in the garage for that so I know that it sucks in comparison to what it will be when the turbo engine is In there.. I have been in massive cool car withdrawal. I almost loaded everything up Porsche related and took it to a shop to have them do the work. But I am actually really looking forward to doing the work myself and really getting to know my car intimately. I can't wait to rip down the road again in my reborn 996. I hope to have actual progress for you guys soon.

Hang in there, man. Go by the local dealership and take a test drive in something. You owe it to yourself.

Quotes source post: 13540669

That is a genius idea!

Alrighty! Well I'm feeling a little more chipper so the work is resuming. I was organizing my parts getting ready for the push to assemble. I am taking my starter to have it rebuilt this week, I replaced the waterpump and thermostat, and have a few other odds and ends coming in the mail but my knee is a little more workable so I hope to have this back together before the end of thanksgiving.

Quotes source post: 13540665

Good luck healing & restoring the 996. I'm starting to plan fun stuff for winter to take the place of 996 fun. Cool car withdrawal is real; keep us updated with pics of the build. That way we can vicariously do the work without the skill!

Two tools I wished I had when I rebuilt mine, snap on torque wrench with added angle setting for engine stretch bolts and a tapered piston ring compressor instead of the banded type as they are a really tight fit!! So if you can't buy anymore parts, buy tools 😃

Great news. Thanksgiving is late November so quite soon. Thanks for the update. O_Sr

Man. Slow but steady. Rear Main Seal installed, IMS installed.... heads are next.

Just read through your thread. Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing it done and you flying down the road shifting gears.

I got the engine up on a stand. I pulled the pan off and holy bajesus... what a mess.. milkshake everywhere.. even though I drained it months ago.. I found a few shards of timing chain guide lodged in the oil pickup, but no metal anywhere. I cannot believe how much milkshake is just everywhere...

Cleaning....

Are you not stripping it right down to clean then? Not sure if you will get away with that, maybe if you turn it over without starting with oil in then drain it and refill with fresh?? I would open up the oil pump and clean it out then pack with petroleum jelly to protect it and help it get oil going through it on first start, might be worth doing scavenge pumps too or maybe put them it oil and turn the gear a few times to get some oil through them!! Good luck with the heads, keep up the posts for us to see !

Every time I read the title to this thread that song gets embedded in my brain for a couple of hours.... Thanks! LOL! Good luck with the clean up and repair.

Just read through your entire thread...very informative and unfortunate. Hope your made more progress since the IMS and RMS. Keep it up!

I'm feeling pretty good about everything, taking my time. I have been cleaning a lot and making sure that I have everything torqued to spec etc. Really trying to be sure I don't forget something in haste. I am pushing my timeline back to try and have the car mobile again by Jan1. Thanks for everyone's support and help. My next step is to install the passenger side head and cam.

Given the complexity of these engines, I always admire someone who has the guts to tear one apart and put it all back together again. Good job and keep us informed on your project.

+1 Hang in there.

Back at it. Actually have a few days slated for this. I put about 4 hours in today taking my time installing the 4-6 head. Double and triple checked my work. Tomorrow should be a little less stressful. Emotionally exhausted but feeling decent about how it's coming back together.

I hope I never need to do this, but what is the purpose of the bar bolted across the ends of the cams?

Quotes source post: 13883595

It's a tool that holds the cams in place until you install the valve cover.

RRTEC, you are a badass! Sorry for your engine and knee trouble... Keep up the good work! Seriously impressive. All the info and help you are receiving is awesome! Great site.

Great to see things coming together. Hope you make good progress these days and get that engine running again!

When I had my milkshake in 2008, cracked head caused it, I spent quite a bit of time cleaning out the engine and the cooling system, but without a total tear down you will never get all of it. The cooling system is almost more work than the engine. For mine I put in some regular oil (synthetic is pretty expensive) and distilled water in the engine. After starting it up and dealing with a few problems with that (the biggest one was blowing out the expansion cap on one cam and having all the cams threaded and putting in threaded plugs) I ran the engine up to temperature and drove it a few miles. Then I drained the oil and the water and refilled it. I did this two or three times to help flush out all the mix (I had oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil). The oil side was clean after the first one or two refills but the coolant system continued to show little bits of sludge for a long time. It has been 8 years and about 50,000 miles and the coolant cleared out after a couple of years. I change the oil at least once per year and flush the coolant every two to three years and everything looks good now. I know that you have the cams back in the engine but I would consider having them threaded and plugged, this is one of Raby's Modes of Failure. then get the thing back together and run it changes the oil and coolant several times over the first few hundred miles. Then drive it and enjoy it!! Good Luck!

More progress. Ran into a slight problem, not sure what order the oil pump bolts go back in they are different lengths... also when I installed the oil Spring and pilll it didn't seem to have any pressure.. not sure if that makes sense.

I just changed and updated my regulator valve and spring last week, got the same result with no pressure to start threading the cap, you should be fine, I got a increase in oil p.s.i., I would measure the depth of each thread hole for the oil pump with dial caliper and make sure you don't use a bolt deeper than the hole.

It looks like you're getting there...Not to be alarmist, but - I noticed that you have the cams locked but you're not using the bars that take the place of the valve covers when you have them off (the valve cover forms the top half of the camshaft bearing(s). Is this an oversight or did someone advise you that it was ok to do like this? I've read you can bend or break your camshafts by doing this... Good luck

Quotes source post: 13886784

you have to take them off to put the valve covers on so I highly doubt it would bend the cams.

I'll give my 2 cents here. I see that the engine is locked at TDC Cyl #1 in the photo but that could mean one of the two cases: 1) Cyl #1 is at TDC overlap 2) Cyl #1 is at TDC compression Case 1 will allow the cam alignment tool to fit bank 1 and the bank 1 cams will be OFF the cam lobes so it's safe to remove the bank 1 cam cover (with the cam lock tool installed at the end of the cams). However, at this position cylinder #5 will be at its late intake cycle and cylinder #6 in its early exhaust cycle so those valves will be OPEN and exerting a lot of pressure on the bank 2 cams. Case 2 is the reverse of case 1 above. Conclusion is if you take off the cover of one bank at a time and use the correct TDC it's ok. If you remove BOTH cam covers, I think it will be less stress to the cams if you put the bars that take the place of the cam cover on the appropriate bank.

Made lots of progress, everything is coming together well. AOS installed, oil cooler, spark plug tubes, coils and covers, various sensors... still need to do my final time and scavenge pumps, then all that is left is to install the intake and I will probably do that when it's off the stand.

Quotes source post: 13885327

Great suggestion.Thank you .Perhaps link your old detailed thread here? Inexpensive and removes yet another Mode of Failure. I think it gets overlooked because the engine builder does not realize how easy it is to distort the flimsy caps when using the cam tool.They do not notice the distortion and even if they do, they don't realise how that makes them prone to blow out with normal oil pressure. Once they start the engine it runs fine too.For a while....

Doesn't look like much but got a ton done today. Still need to make the final butt puckering timing check/set and put the scavenge pumps on. My timing looks spot on right now but I have no idea really other than the manual, and I never actually set the timing beyond the initial install. I am going to take it off the engine stand tomorrow.

Quotes source post: 13887155

^Exactly^ what I was wondering/getting at... thanks for the explanation

Quotes source post: 13887155

I agree, better to keep the bars across the cams just before the valve cover is to be installed. There is a lot of spring pressure on the cams and is a good idea to keep the time they are stressed by this to a minimum. Also, if you have the cams times incorrectly, you will know as soon as you try to manually turn the engine over (even without the spark plugs installed). It engine will be fairly difficult to turn over by hand as there will be twice the spring pressure that you�ll have to overcome when turning the engine over. If you worked on engines long enough, it will feel weird that should raise a red flag that something isn�t just right. I made this mistake when I was first putting the engine back together a few years ago. Afterwards I�ve used pictures of the camshaft orientation of two banks to make sure they are timed correctly.

Going at it.... flywheel, clutch, intake, scavenge pumps... working on the exhaust now. Got the trans mount out.. couldn't get the new one in.. so I have to take it somewhere I guess.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_7154_f8e00003cdc123d77304b31216d335168c88d7eb.jpg

I am trying to research the vacuum line routing, as well as what coolant line runs to the oil cooler. A little hung up there right now Getting close.

Quotes source post: 13890749

Looking good and you work fast! There are 3 coolant hoses lying on top of the bank 1 intake manifolds. The longest one that has 90 degree angle bend on both ends goes to the oil cooler (vent line) and the coolant reservoir. The other two goes to the AOS. This diagram shows how they are connected. http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=104-10 There shouldn't be any ambiguity.

The vacuum lines go like this https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...omponents.html

Thanks guys! Got them sorted thanks to your posts and the pictures I took early in the build. One of the vacuum lines was snapped so I am going to have to put a little piece of vacuum line to patch it. I'm going to finish up mounting the exhaust Thursday night and should be ready to re-install the engine Saturday.

Quotes source post: 13891254

Hows it been going, did you hit any snags or is it on hold?

Wow, what an epic thread. I feel like I'm on pins and needles waiting for the (hopefully) inevitable post where the engine is cranked and back alive. Good luck with the final stages... we're all routing for you.

Man, I got snagged up on some stupid coolant line part number changes that put me on hold while I ordered new parts and have received them but been busy at work. I plan to put a little time into it this weekend. i really appreciate the support! It's going to be epic either way this goes... lol

Long time no post. I'm sure a lot of you thought I gave up..... but I didn't! Life continued to get in the way, but the work has resumed. I sourced the remaining parts I needed and have slated next weekend to finish it up. Im incredibly nervous about starting it up.. I followed the manual to a T, but the stakes are high here..

Sweet! We are all pulling for you. That's an incredible project you took on. I'm impressed you had the stones to do it - few people would. You are so close to finishing. Even if you have a couple of hiccups between now and your first day back on the road, it will still be worth it. I'm excited to see you cross the finish line, RRTEC!

Quotes source post: 14201706

As he said -^^ Take your time do your checks and see how it goes. Luck and best wishes Ian

I realized that I never took the time to share how I flushed my coolant system out on the car last year. It was a combination of several methods so I cannot definitively say if one was enough, or not enough... During the initial "what should I do gratuitous tool purchasing bender" I Purchased an inexpensive vacuum fill kit as I was going to need it anyway to properly fill the system. This did come in handy. But first... 1) hooked up a shop vacuum to one of the large coolant lines in the engine bay, put the vacuum on reverse and blew all the coolant and oil out of the system, and all over the driveway... I scrambled around trying to contain the oil spill of BP/Exxon proportion.. Caramel water flowed like magma from every available cavity. 2) Put a 5 gallon bucket on a cinder block in the engine bay and filled it up with water and dawn soap. I put the garden hose in the bucket on a steady stream and reversed the shop vacuum and pulled as much water/soap mix into the system as it would take. Eventually the shop vacuum needed to be emptied so I went on like that for a few hours. I ended up using hot water in some of the later passes to try and loosen up any residue that may have been trapped. I repeated this process more times then I could count. There were oil droplets in the water up to the last 10 5 gallon passes. 3) Hooked up the vacuum coolant fill tool I bought and hooked it up and proceeded to vacuum pull several 5 gallon buckets of soapy water through the system, this method took forever although did not require an much babysitting as the shop vac. It did still find some traces of oil that it sprayed out all over the engine bay.... After a few hours of that I went back to the shop vacuum and went to clear water vs soap/water. I'm still not confident that It's all out... what a mess. I may go at it again before I stab the engine back in this weekend. I know the system is 100% dry..

Quotes source post: 14202819

Thank you for this post. I was pondering this very issue today as I prepare to pull the engine (intermix issue) on my project car. Getting out all the old sludge is a big concern. Any plans on pulling the radiators and having them flushed/boiled?

I did consider it, but in leu of that I have decided to just run straight water for about 300 miles or so and then flush the system again followed by a refill of proper coolant.

I would not go so far as 300 miles on just water but do agree on draining and refilling asap. Remember, the coolant raises the boiling point and lubricates the water pump. Why not do more like a 25/75 mix coolant and distilled water? Cheap after all you have been through but adds some protection.

Cleaning up my thread here... here is how I ended up installing the trans mount sleeve. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/971693-inserting-transmission-mount-mk1.html

FYI, I run water and Water Wetter in my track car and it runs about 25 degrees cooler than antifreeze.

Well it's been a long time coming but tomorrow I am going to put this ole girl back together...

Best of luck!

Quotes source post: 14214282

I second ^That^

Coming along.

Alright my people!!. Idles well, no wierd noises no smoking from the exhaust. Few issues to button up.. 1) oil cap has lots of suction on it. AOS is new... so kinda confused there. Should I be worried? 2) power steering line blew smooth out of the connector. Not sure what's up with that. I just pushed it back in but don't trust it 3) small leak at water pump which really sucks so I have to take that back apart. 4) oil pressure was high on first start, like 4-5 on the gauge. After warming up it came down to 1.5-2 at idle. Used to sit around 1. 5) I almost cried from joy when it started up and idled perfectly for about 20 mins. I've run it for about 30 mins off and on at temp.

AOS vacuum - measure it with a digital Manometer - they are cheap now- Amazon Prime ! Imagine the mess you will have to clean up if it is bad ? And well done - a significant achievement !

Oh also... where are these supposed to go??

I have no ideas where those go, but good job and best of luck!

The big one is for the A/c. You will find the mating part under the inlet manifold.

Ok. The small spade comes off the compressor. Must be a ground. The larger one connects to the compressor then? I'll look again

Well I'm starting to think these two are mates... I looked around... has to be a match.

Don't mind the angle... but here is a quick video from the start up. You Tube

Congrats!!

Yeah that spade connector plugs into the female I was holding in the photo. That was the power to the a/c compressor.

She running well?

Yeah, she is doing good. Had to pull the water pump to deal with a gasket issue but other than that it's better than ever!

good to hear, enjoy!

Thanks for all the posts on this one pleased for the result for you.

Water pump gasket leak sorted. Time to detail this thing and re-introduce it to the world....

You Tube another quick idling video.. so happy it's back.

That's fantastic! Love to have good news and it is also great to see a video with a healthy running 996! I followed the whole thread and can't imagine what you must feel. Congrats!

Congrats !! . Glad you got it up and going. If your still having some milkshake in you cooling system try this product. I have used it several times and it is the best I have seen (other than the Porsche cleaning agent at $300 pre-mix 5 gal) this is a Cummings product and is a concentrate. www.sctruckspares.com.au/cc5/fleetguard-cc2638-restore-plus-cooling-system-cleaner-3.html

The recommended product may be this one? https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/cleaners I have used it in my Cummins .

Quotes source post: 14323971

Yes that is it, I don't know why my link is not working? I tryed it out after the post and it worked? But anyway yea that stuff works almost as good as the Porsche Frostox R at $300 bucks !! My guess is most of the cost is water weight (5 gal) and hazard material charge from Germany...

Congratulations man! Welcome back! We were just up in Nashville. My wife's uncle is Reba's studio manager. He runs Starstruck studios. Love our time there a few months ago.

Congrats!

I finally read this entire thread yesterday. Long business trips in boring places provide lots of time to read. rrtec, glad you saw this through to the end and you are back up and running! Thanks for sharing so many photos and so much info too.