Questions From Perspective New 996 Owner

I am BMW (87 M6, 89 325iX, 90 325iC) CCA member looking to cross bloodlines into the Porsche family and am looking for advice from those with A LOT more knowledge than me so here are my questions in no random order. My budget is in the $20,000 dollar range. I'd pay a bit north of that if the car has already has the IMS, RMS and clutch replaced or less if I have to budget doing this myself. 1. Why am I finding so many more 1999 model year 996s for sale? 2. Is the 1999 car "better" because of the dual row IMS? Or just buy the newest car and budget for an IMS? Even though I understand the IMS failure may be somewhat over exaggerated I would still like the piece of mind having it replaced. 3. How many miles on a car before a clutch job? If not tracked and just driven normally. 4. Why are there so few White or Red cars? It seems the popular colors were Silver, Grey and Black with White, Yellow and Red being less popular. 5. I am undecided on C2 or C4. I like my BMW 325iX and it's all wheel drive but, I am not sure I won't or need the added complexity, weight, or narrowed buying selection of searching for a C4 996. 6. And probably the most controversial question... Opinions on cars with a "rebuilt" title? My logic being this, a Porsche that has a rebuilt title that was fixed CORRECTLY by a competent shop could save me some money. Yes, I would have the car checked out by an independent shop. Yes, I would want to know or see photos of the extent of the damage that resulted in a salvage title in the first place. Given that the 996 is probably the lowest values 911 in the eyes of the insurance companies would it not take much damage to "total" a car? I am not buying the car as an investment I am buying it to drive. My preferences in the car I buy. 1. Coupe only. 2. Manual. 3. Under 100,000 miles. The lower the better with an emphasis on condition and maintenance records. 4. Any interior color other than grey. 5. Aero kit if the rest of the car checks out. 6. As stock and original as possible. Any advice welcome.

I was leaning toward the c4 when i was looking, but was talked out of it. Same hp car, but more parasitic loss.

There were quite a few small improvements made on the 996.2 (2002-2004) if you can find one in your price range, including a slightly larger engine/more HP. C2 (RWD only) all the way, particularly due to the above comment. Same HP but pushing much more driveline resistance. A few threads around on guys converting their C4's to RWD only.

I just got a 99 cab a couple months ago and have been a p-car owner for several years and was an e46 owner. Good car to cross over to as I also have a Mercedes so the garage is all German. in regards to year, here are some things I wish the 99 had that the gen 2 has: 1. A global box 2. A three spoke steering (can swap anyways with newer but added expense) 3. A removable exhaust tip without taking the section off minor annoyances but gen 1 is still a great car. I can't complain as I was not searching and the opportunity get this one with 127k miles for under 9 grand was a steal even with a minor fender bender. i did the ims/rms/aos and clutch in the first month for piece of mind insurance. Was running the original bearing and was still in great shape. If you gonna replace it anyways it doesn't matter what is in there now.

Salvage title destroys resale value. If you are buying to drive and keep a long time - then go for it, but pay for an expensive PPI. And make sure you see and drive it in person. If you plan on ever trying to resell I would avoid it.

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we should talk. Welcome to rennlist Master Sergeant.

As usual, I think Doc has it covered. The only thing I'd add is that I bought my 996 from a guy who used to be sales manager at a local BMW dealer. His opinion was that you see so many Porsches (and BMWs) in shades of gray and silver because they're the safest cars for dealers to have on the lot. As a sales manager, the last thing he wanted was to floor-plan a car that wouldn't sell right away because of the color. He said that he would stock 3- and 5-series cars primarily in silver, gray, and black; for most other colors, they would order the car once the customer put down a deposit. This was not a very high volume dealer, but I'm sure his experience wasn't unique. We had talked about this because my car is such an odd color; he was certain that it would've been ordered because a car that color could sit on a lot for months.

Thank you for all the advice. So a C2 it is with all things considered. The 996 won't be driven in the winter so the added complexity, weight and parasitic draw isn't needed. My color of choice would be red and then white. The "bland" colors make sense from a business sense but in my opinion nothing is nicer looking that a red 996 with tan interior or a white with black. The blues are nice but they all seem to come with grey interiors that I just can't stomach. Too vanilla for my tastes. I like the idea of actual throttle cables and mechanical front and rear hatch releases, possibly a more robust motor (why is this) and such of the first gen models but there is something to be said for buying a 5 or 6 year newer car if all else is equal. Is the increased HP of the 3.6 over the 3.4 really noticeable?

Another preference of mine. Though I like the Euro package, what was Porsche thinking with that rear spoiler? It may be functional but, I'd much prefer a simple ducktail design. It just seems too "ricer" to me. But I know everyone has different tastes. No offense to those who do like the design.

Don't worry about the rear spoiler. You are driving the other way so you don't see it. AND it is kind of nice to give the "finger" when you accelerate away from some loser behind you when you just turned up the highway. Don't forget yellow, it is a pretty rare colour and very nice with an aero kit. My car also has the Euro ROW M030 kit (factory lowered). Looks SO much nicer. Volkert

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I truly don't get why people choose those colors either, so bland. The ONLY reason I'd choose silver would be if the car was a daily driver. For a pleasure vehicle it's got to have character. Mine is Guards Red with a savannah beige interior, or what I consider the "classic" color combo for "exotic" cars. You can have a row of ten 996 911's at a car show, the rest being silver, gray, black and the crowd will always be around the colorful car. Idk, for some folks I think it is just outside of their comfort zones. Not that the color of a car is much of a risk, but they're not risk takers. That's why people, given the choice, will take a used Camry for more money over a 996.

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Okay, let me put a plug in for the C4S. The stock 996.2 C4S has the pretty wide butt with the red strip, the wider stance, the better wheels, the better/bigger brakes, and the better suspension than the stock C2. Performance wise, I have run laps around the C2 on the track, with both cars in stock form. The front wheels really do work in pulling the C4S around corners faster than the C2. And yes, the IMS thing is waaay overblown Not selling my C4S, BTW. Just putting in my .02c to your deliberations. Good luck and happy hunting for your perfect 911!

I love my 99 (Nov 98 build). Don't miss the glove box at all. Keep my stuff in the arm rest cubby. Easier to access than having to reach over to a glove box. I also like my 4 spoke steering wheel as it's a throwback to the 993. Mine's black which some may consider bland but with the M030 suspension, aftermarket wheels and factory aero kit I get tons of complements. I've lost track of the amount of times I've been at a stoplight and the guy in the car next to me rolls down his window to ask about the car and give compliments. Not too shabby for a 20yr old car that I paid about he same price as a Toyota Corolla for.

Doc has it covered. 1999-200x, the market buyers just wanted silver black and sometimes white. It's just a style/timing thing of that era. The 3.6l engines "feel" faster than the 3.4l engines because they have more torque down low. But in fact, they are not really faster, especially from 4200 RPM and up. 99s and 00s are generally cheaper but are a bit more basic. I have only had RWD Porsche's, but I must admit, the wider rear end of the C4/S looks better. And coupled with the fact that Porsche really knows how to do AWD very well, I would not overlook a C4. Some people like RWD to have fun with throttle-on oversteer, but that's actually difficult to do with some much weight in the back even with just RWD. And even C2s in the winter are fine, so that's not even an issue either (doesn't apply to you regardless). So that leaves you with pretty much all options on the table.

I have been doing as much research as I can. Sometimes reading too much makes the decision harder but, eventually I will narrow down my choices and the right car will find me. Even though I am in Massachusetts I am willing to travel for a nice car. I have bought others that came from Texas, California and Washington state. Zero rust is important to me. I do like the pictures I have seen of the wider back end C4 body and I have read that, at least the later ones, have some of the same bits as the turbo car? In all honesty, the car will probably never be driver anywhere near its limits as I really wouldn't want to risk over driving my abilities and risking an accident, the car won't be tracked, but, my drive to work does have about a 20 mile section of very twisty road that runs along a reservoir and though the mountains that I can only assume would be a fun drive. I have always been told not to buy a car based on color but, if I'm buying a Porsche it will be a color that stands out. My 87 BMW M6 is bright red and I wouldn't want it any other color. If it matters, I consider myself a pretty competent DIYer. Currently doing an auto to manual swap in my BMW E30 iX and its not a challenge to me. Timing chains, water pumps, valve adjustments, fuel pumps, water pumps etc.. are well within my abilities. Mind you I have never done these on a 911 but, I don't think I would be intimidated at having a go at replacing my own RMS, IMS and clutch. Not having a lift may be a challenge but, I am not stranger to working under a car up on jack stands.

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Important difference: the C4S and the C4 are NOT the same car. The C4S has the wider butt, the C4 does not. The C4S has the same brakes, similar suspension, similar headlights and front end, and similar body panels as the turbo, the C4 does not.

Also to consider, do you like your eggs runny or soft boiled (headlights)

Working on these cars, IMO, is pretty easy. Since you stated your abilities with your other Bavarian brethren, you will be a-ok. Sure, find the color combo you want. I wanted silver - boring I know - but a triple black I found was just too good to pass up. My tattooed hip buddy wth the M3 has a red one. I'm fine being boring with mine. You will find the car the suits you. Plenty out there, and the more you look, the more you'll find. Make sure to drive a few to make sure you know the way a good car feels.

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Good advice right there ... and don't necessarily rely on the pictures, go out and look at cars. IMO, there are some 996 colors where the pictures just don't do them justice. Meridian Metallic, for example ... which looks like any other gray until the light hits it. I became the King of Beige after being convinced that Mirage (actually sort of a platinum gold) was the dopiest color in the world to paint a Porsche. But I went to take a look at it anyway. And bought it. I love the color, and so far I've seen very few like it. The other reason you might want to look at a number of cars is to understand the different interiors, both in terms of color and finish. My car has the base interior, which is pretty much high quality German Tupperware -- lots of plastic. That's fine with me because I have a cab and drive a lot with the top down. So the dash and door panels get dusty and dirty, but the plastic is easy to clean. If I had a coupe, I would want the "full leather" interior. Also, I have a black interior. Obviously, any interior will age well or poorly depending on maintenance, but I think the black may generally fare better with age. It's just my opinion, but I think the gray and tan require a little more care to keep from getting beaten up over the years. That said, I know someone whose 996 -- Zanzibar Red, another rare color -- had a full leather interior in cinnamon leather. It had been well cared for and looked great. More good advice. These cars are 13 - 18 years old, and there's bound to be a lot of variation. If you've driven one 996, you've driven one 996.

I love the Mirage! Can't stand silver...

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i got my m030 red 996 over black with ims and clutch done for 18. It's possible but you have to look around. The car was for sale for quite a while too. Not many people shopping 996s really. Docs car is a steal. It was a bit outside my price range and I do prefer the black over savannah. His car has all the cool bells and whistles including a limited slip diff. His car is awesome for the money. I didn't want to low ball him at 19 or 20, but I thought about it long and hard.

3.4 versus 3.6, yes it's got more HP and torque but the Mk.2 is heavier as well. So with my Mk.1 C2 I am below 1300kg, a C4S is 1450+kg. So for HP/weight the C4S would need 350HP to compensate. 3.4 "rev" really nicely. I don't think it makes a lot of difference and you can flip the argument anyway you like. I initially liked the C4S a lot but in silver it just did not work for me; black is nice but I don't like black cars. Any other colour is hard to find. I ended up with a silver early C2 and I like it a lot. One thing mentioned before, make sure you drive a number of cars. That I actually found harder to do then one would think because there are many cars that look nice in pictures but once I got there it was a waste of time. Also, make sure you drive 1-2 997 models, just for comparison. Once you buy a 911 you will sink money into it so you'd better make sure this one is the one you really want and you did not compromise. I initially wanted to buy an early 997, I did not like much the 996 look or the horrorstories but once I got to visit different dealerships and driven a few I came to appreciate the simplicity of the 996 interior. Also, although I had the money I preferred to buy an early 996 and spent the money to get it technically right.

It really appears the best course of action would be finding a car with good history first and foremost. The Mk.1 and Mk.2, C2/C4/C4S all have their strong and week points over each other I guess it's time to go out and get some seat time, drive and look at the differences between the Mk.1 and Mk.2 to see if I have a preference. Are 996s still found used at dealerships? I would rather conduct my test drives at a dealership rather than waste a private sellers time just getting a feel for the cars. I would rather buy an older model below my $20,000 - $22,000 budget and have funds available to base-line the car with new RMS, IMS, clutch, water pump, belts, hoses, plugs, coolant flush versus being at my max with less cash for preventive maintenance, have to put these things off and then have a failure, as unlikely as that may be.

If you want a red one... this one is even in MA and although it is private it is owned by a Rennlister that will/should understand you need to drive a few before making a purchasing decision. https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...-original.html

I actually ran across that this very car in my searches. It didn't come up under a search for Porsche 996 but rather Porsche 911. I guess I need to start searching both.

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That is the sister of my car, except I have 030, 014, and a few other gewgaws plus Aero. Of course, I did the IMS and clutch already. Very clean example, should sell soon.

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And a close nephew of mine then, all you mentioned except the Aero! The seller does err on the builddate, that car has X in the VIN which is a MY99 (build Aug 98-July99) with a very late serial 20565 which would indicate a June/July99 build date. Still a proper 99-er, all good. And I actually like the original orange indicators on a red car, looks good.

The 996 C4 cars do not have a wide body. The 996 C4S cars have a wide body, and share other components with the turbo (bigger brakes, suspension, bumper design). In my opinion, the 2002 - 2005 C4S is the best looking 996 variant. My C4S was a very enjoyable car to own, and I would buy another one if I was shopping for a 996. I would probably buy a 2004 C4S cabriolet. On another note; the AWD system in the 996 was not designed for winter conditions. The PSM and traction control systems in the 996 are quite intrusive, and they intervene before the front wheels get any traction. It was designed to allow the driver to power out of corners more aggressively than a RWD car.

I agree with the comments on color in this thread. Every 911 that I've ever purchased has been a color other than black, silver or gray. The history of colors for car manufacturers is actually quite interesting. Back in the early days of automobile racing, colors were assigned to each country by the Automobile Club de France for the Bennett Cup race from Paris to Lyon. The colors were changed a little bit over the next few years, but essentially they ended up as follows: Italy: Red France: Blue Germany: White Belgium: Yellow Great Britain: Green United States: Blue and White Many companies still honor this original color scheme, which is the reason we see so many red Ferraris or green Jaguars. I've never seen a Ford GT in any color scheme other than blue and white.

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I don't get the statements that seem to oppose each other. If the PSM and TC take over before any torque is allowed to get to the front wheels, how does that help power out of the corners better? I think there's some design interaction that must allow some slip to occur due to the different radii of the tracks of front vs rear wheels. I admit that I don't have any idea how the front diff torque is applied, but I can't for the life of me figure out why the front wheels get no traction if the PSM limits the power to the rear wheel(s). Not that it matters to me, I have zero interest in any AWD variants of the 996, but wondered about the statement. Would seem that PSM then makes AWD superfluous. As for the looks of the Mk2 cars, the differences are so subtle(ex for Targa) that I can't tell them apart. I do like the targa top, but not so much I would change over from my 99 AeroSport.

The 996 AWD system uses a mechanical, viscous coupling to apply up to 40% of the power to the front wheels. The viscous coupling is only activated when there is a speed differential between the front and rear wheels. In this situation, the dilatant fluid in the front differential heats up rapidly and thinkens to the point that the front clutch pack engages and drives the front wheels. This scenario occurs in spirited driving through corners, or on the track. Typically the traction control system isn't activated in this scenario. In winter conditions, the rear wheels often slip due to loss of traction on snow or ice. When the rear wheels slip, the traction control system is activated and it brakes the rear wheels before the VC can apply power to the front wheels. I experienced this situation in my C4S multiple times trying to drive up my snowy driveway. I had to turn PCM off, or back up the driveway to successfully get to my garage. In winter conditions in the 996 series cars, a C2 with winter tires will perform as well as a C4 with winter tires. The VC system is also very sensitive to tire sizes. This is the reason that it's so important to keep the size differential between front and rear within recommended specifications on AWD cars. If you don't, then the VC activates because of the rotational speed differential between the front and rear, and it quickly wears the front clutch pack.

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It's maddening, imo. I've been looking for a C2 + aerokit in anything other than black and silver. I've found a few but not many that are also: Clean title, reasonable mileage, in good shape, not highly overvalued. I'm in no rush to buy and am willing to travel for the right car so i am just waiting patiently. Maybe i will even increase my budget to TT territory if i wait long enough.

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I have what y'all want. But - it's not free. PM me for info if you like.

I looked for 6 months when I was looking for my car, which I've now had 5 years. Any color but black or red, only because I've owned several black cars, which are hard to keep clean, and I thought red was too "common". I really wanted silver, or seal gray, with black interior. Getting the right car mechanically outweighed any color concerns. But alas the right car ended up being black with gray interior, and I couldn't be happier. I thought this might be my starter P car, but it's ended up a keeper. Keep looking and you'll find your car.

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Besides the PSM, what "traction control systems" are you referring to? No, the AWD is always active, front wheels get traction when the rear wheels start to slip -- even just a bit. Like someone else wrote, there is no decision made, the torque transfer profile is simply a characteristic of the fluid in the VC. The PSM is designed to prevent the car from spinning and the driver loosing control -- at the limit -- at the end -- not 'before' anything else except the crash. Has nothing to do with powering out of corners. In a left curve, if the car exhibits understeer, the PSM applies the left rear brake, which makes the car act like a pivot and brings the front end into the turn. In a left curve, if the car has oversteer, the PSM applies the right front brake, to bring the nose out of the turn. Think of it this way: the AWD helps prevent a wheel from spinning and PSM helps prevent the car from spinning. (AWD also adds some nice balance to the handling, ) On C4S, factory tests at Nurburgring showed it is faster than all other 996 variants (except of course the GT3, Turbo, GT2). Can read about it here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125769 Mine is silver, but given equal condition and features, I'd trade for an Arena Red or Forrest Green any day. And, perhaps some of us would vote this quote is the most important consideration of all:

I would highly recommend buying a car from a private seller rather than a dealer.

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Yes, you are correct; the AWD system is always active. It is rear wheel biased - it typically sends 5% of the power to the front wheels, but it can send up to 40% of the power to the front wheels. The dilatant fluid in the VC reacts very quickly, no doubt about that. You're correct that there is "no decision made"; it's a mechanical system that reacts to the wheel speed and friction in the front differential. That is one of the reasons that the C4S is faster around the Nurburgring that the C2; the AWD allows it to power our of corners as I mentioned above. I think the suspension, wider rear tires, and brakes play a role too, because the C4S is quite a bit heavier than the C2. The traction control functionality is part of the PSM system. This system will brake individual wheels as necessary to correct oversteer, among other things. You are also correct that PSM has nothing to do with powering out of corners. The traction control functionality comes into play on slippery surfaces, such as winter driving as I mentioned above. If you try to start a 996 on ice with the PSM active, and the rear wheels begin to slip or lose traction, the car will apply the rear brakes to slow the rear wheel and allow for traction. It will eventually cut engine power if brakes are not enough. This is the traction control functionality that I mentioned, and I found it to be quite intrusive in my C4S. In this scenario, the car will not send enough power to the front wheels to move the car forward; it will cut power to the rear wheels. I've experienced this behavior many, many times in winter conditions. As I mentioned, I was able to get my car to drive up my snowy driveway by deactivating PSM, which in turn deactivated the traction control functionality. This allowed the AWD system to help pull the car up the driveway. That being said, not many people want to drive in winter conditions with PSM deactivated (including me). I'm with you on green; one of our local PCA members has a 2004 C4S cabriolet in green and it's gorgeous.

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Uh - I think it has an extra 50HP? Might account for the time diff.

Nope. Same engine.

I have noticed that if I increase my budget and search parameters to $25,000 I find more cars in the brighter colors, a coupe of the C4S models and more with the aero package. Sorry for an obvious question... Is it only the C4 that gets the wider turbo look with upgraded components or is the "regular" C4 wider as well? And why so few Targas? I always though the targas of the 80's were a great look other than the seals being problematic when they started to leak. Not that the 996 targa replicates that look. Just seems to be an overly large panoramic sunroof. I only ask as let's assume at some point the 996 values will increase, even if slightly and if my budget could buy me a C4S or Targa or a car with the aero options would this be a more desirable car over the standard C2?

C4 and C4S were sold in parallel where the C4S has the wider "turbo" body and the C4 the regular body, like a C2. Smart marketing on the part of Porsche that still works today. Targas only sold in low numbers. Yes, over time 996 values will start to appreciate BUT this car sold in huge numbers AND in the meantime 997 values are still dropping. So I for now don't see much upward potential. For sure any car which is more desirable now will be more desirable later but for now the best thing to do is to pick the one car that YOU find desirable. Best to go for a car you really like with the options you want and then find one with a good history, reasonable mileage that gives you confidence you made a good buy. Then make sure you have some money in the bank just in case something drastic happens. There are good cars out there. Just be careful you don't run into one on which the previous owner found some issue and decided to dump it or car sales people that like to flip cars. I would for instance be very careful with a car that had a recent IMS/RMS swap etc. Why sell now if you just went through that expense? I would echo what KCattorney just mentioned, see if you can buy it from somebody you can trust.

Watch this, good way to sum up the line. (plug this when I can it's great) You Tube

The coupes are usually and will probably will always be the most desirable model compared to cabs and targas

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Wrong... The suspensions are indeed the same...

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LOL. Okay, the C4S has a wider rear stance than the C4 but they have the same suspension, or is it that the turbo has 100 more HP and at least 100lbs more weight but has the same suspension as the C4S? Or is it that the C4, C4S and the turbo all have the same suspension?

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Among Porsche 356s, the cabs sell for much more than coupes. For the differences of the C4S compared to the Turbo and the C4, read here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14125769 The article describes the C4S in detail. The C4S has (almost) the rear suspension from the Turbo which provides a wider track, the C4 does not. The C4S has the front bumper cover from the Turbo, and the rear bodywork, and the brakes. However, the springs and shocks are tuned to the C4S (not the same as the Turbo), because the C4S is about 150 lbs lighter. So technically, the suspensions are not the same. Another difference, the C4S has no air intakes on the rear fenders -- because their are no intercoolers. A couple of disadvantages to the Targa are over 200 lbs additional weight up high on the car exactly where we don't want more weight. The tracks for the glass panel and power sun shade are wide enough that my head hit when lean just a bit to the left. Your list above, choosing among the C4S, Targa, and Aero cars --- to me they are all quite different variants among the 996s, each has a character of its own that is different than the others. I'd suggest to select one of those directions, find the most excellent car in that variant that your budget will allow.

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Now you're in range. Basically yes, any of those variants would almost certainly be more valuable or more desirable than a bone stock C2 car.

If you could find a C4S with a factory aero kit, then you'd have a winner! It's a rare bird....

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A definitive statement. Thanks, 911Syncro. Was not and am not fond of the factory aero, that's why I didn't get it when I got the car. But, you're right, it is a rare bird.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6193110873.html Something like this, nice drive back to MA! Story looks good. Just an example of what you could be looking for.

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Except it's black and OP wants a bright color, it's a C4, and OP doesn't want AWD, it's missing aero, and OP wants aero, and they said it has every option avail at the time - not even close to correct. However, it is 1000 miles under the 100k limit!

At this early stage I am still learning and not ruling anything out, except grey interior. That I won't compromise on. I would consider a silver car if all else was perfect. A few that have caught my eye... https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/6159935147.html https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/6190693854.html https://frederick.craigslist.org/cto/6177807847.html With my intent on driving it more than just a weekend pleasure car I assume I would not be wrong in placing a premium on low miles? I understand too low mileage could mean certain things that will need replacing have probably not been replaced like on a car with 80,000 to 90,000 miles. And with lower miles I am thinking less interior wear, possibly less paint chipping on the nose, suspension pieces will have more life etc...

That Chicago car is less than 10 miles away from me. I can probably take a look at it for you if you were interested.

Of course the one I like the most is in Chicago. My last boondoggle to buy a vehicle was three weeks ago to Chicago and it has been, so far, not my best experience. I bough a 2009, VW Touareg, 79,000 2 owner car for my wife that I drove back to MA. Day 2 had the check engine light come on, missing on multiple cylinders while under power but not when up to speed around 65-70 mph and it has been at the dealership an hour from my house ever since. They are telling me it needs a new instrument cluster and then who knows what. My bill is currently $2100.00. Thanks for the offer murphyslaw1978. This is in my budget, a livable color, low miles, appears to be clean. If you just happen to be in that area and want to take a casual look at it I would be interested in your opinion. Initial thoughts on the car from the add? I like the blue but, wonder what the cinnamon looks like in person. Miles are super low. Good yes or would only 31,000 miles have drawbacks? Description sounds good. If someone special ordered that interior vs buying a car off the lot then MAYBE they are more of an enthusiasts??? PCA Member can't be bad. Engine compartment looks clean but, not used car dealer armor all shiny clean. Just tidy. I would be curious to see the service records. I would guess the aero kit is factory and the GT3 something added after by the owner? I hope the date time stamp on the photos is just the incorrect date in the camera settings.

I'd ask for a photo of the options sticker that lets you see the option codes. It's under the bonnet. The interior looks like Natural Brown Leather to me, but I could be wrong. I had NBL in my 996, and it was great. The "GT3 kit aero" isn't an OE kit, which may or may not matter to you. The car also has aftermarket radiator screens in the front bumper. Many people like this to keep crap out of the radiators, and it's a common mod by people who frequently track their car. I don't know if this matters to you or not, but you might ask the seller about it. Overall, the car looks nice and clean in the photos.

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Don't you mean the sticker is under the boot? Good catch on the screens.

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Yeah, I'll check it out. There's nothing I see from the ad that causes me concern.

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Boot, bonnet, trunk, frunk.... I can't keep it straight.

Lapis blue is as stunning in person as it is in pics. Maybe more. The car also has some interesting options. Root wood int package, light alloy(hollow 18") wheels, Xenon lights, heated seats for the NE winters, new sport pilot tires. If it checks out, I'd hit that like a cheap ***** at that price. Get the IMS, RMS, and clutch done and love it for ever.

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LOL: you see my point exactly! That Chicago car is a beauty and a big sufferer of the 996 trauma, it should be worth at least 30k. I would not be concerned on the low mileage, check if it has at least run regularily (ie not been sitting in storage 101 years with dirty oil). Then as suggested get the maintenance items done (AOS/RMS/IMS + all fluids) and fix the things that come up once you start to drive (there will always be a few). I would suggest some regular oil changes (3k max) early on to clean the engine internally. Volkert

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The fact that it's a 911 means it could be called a boonet, lol

I asked the seller for a copy of the carfax and I'll see if they come through. I like the color, feel the screens give it a sporty look, actually like the wing and carerra decal, the interior shows little wear. My only concern is when I Google earthed the address in the add it comes back to a body shop. I asked specifically if there was any paint work or accidents that would not have been reported to carfax.

I was referring to the Joyzee car. The one in Lapis. The Chicago car also looks nice and lower mileage. I just like the lapis blue color.

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I know someone who had a car with the cinnamon interior. It's got more of a reddish hue than the natural brown, but it's not as red as it photographs. I'd characterize it as a dark tan with a tinge of red. I think that color only came in full leather, i.e. acres of dead cow. IMO it's a much nicer interior than the base Tupperware. I think it looks great. I have the radiator screens and like them. I've been meaning to pull the screens to see if there's any difference in cooling with them on or off, but didn't notice any difference after I first installed them.

I'd love to see more pics if it is cinnamon and not NBL. I have a friend with terra cotta leather interior, and that's pretty unique.

Is this terra cotta? Thoughts on this car? I will be going to look at it sometime this weekend unless running the Carfax shows something out of the ordinary. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=174461522 I know I said I wanted a bright color but, 23,000 miles is attractive. I asked the seller and he did say that the car did not sit for long periods of time. I guess red is a love it or leave it color. Funny thing is one of the first cars I drove was my parents 1964 Thunderbird (in 1983) that was bright red with bright red interior and I owned a BMW E30 that was silver with cardinal red interior so maybe red interiors have a way of finding me??? NO IMS or RMS but, the cam chain guides have been done. Should I be concerned that they were or needed to be done at such low miles?

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23k is quite low, and even if driven weekly still only represents 24 miles per week, which is an absolute minimum for a car like this. Even if only driven on nice days, it sat a LOT.

Yeah, I like low miles but.... What would a car with this few miles have for surprises and would a PPI catch theses issues? Would this just be full of issues or is there no knowing?

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A PPI would only catch some issues. The biggest problem is that low mileage cars don't always get the same frequency of fluid changes that higher mileage cars get. And the seals on these cars can wear out faster when not used. It's best to look at the maintenance history to be sure.

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Or maybe a respected auction site like this one http://bringatrailer.com/listing/200...911-carrera-6/

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LOL, you will find yourself on that slippery slope of 911-LOVE. Which is cool btw given that afterwards you will sink considerable money in it. But it is worth it everytime you take it for a drive. It is a pristine, very low mileage car and IMHO one that 5-10 years from now will hold its value. Yes, you would need to do a major maintenance on it with all fluids changed, RMS/IMS/AOS and keep some change on the bank for bits&pieces falling off. But I think it is a great car, provided you like the interior colour! Good luck!

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FWIW, I bought my C2 about a month ago in TN with 23k miles on it. Carfax was clear and nothing that stood out. Only issue I had was a bad battery that didn't come about until after I swapped the radio. Only thing is it is scheduled for IMS, AOS, RMS, and a few other things first week of August just for peace of mind. People say the low miles are a concern, but I've been driving the **** out of mine. But like it's been stated, regardless of miles, get ready to dump money into it. Exhaust, window tint, wheels, preventative maintenance...., it adds up fast.

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Since this has the super rare mid-engine mod I guess you should have a look at it. If you don't want silver, don't get silver. Low miles, priced about right, maybe a little high. He's going to have a hard time selling with that interior. No aero, Most people will run the other way. Not my cup of tea, meh.

Mid-engine huh? I too caught that. Why is it that a small thing like that sets off all kinds of alarms to me? Wouldn't a Porsche owner know the difference between mid and rear engine? I ran a car fax and it does come back as a one owner car. No accidents. The last noted "Dealer" service was a brake flush in 2006. I asked the owner about this and he told me that he had the car serviced at an indy and has the records to prove it when and if I look at the car in person. I don't hate silver and I don't mind the red interior. Maybe worth a trip to go and look at it.

The Chicago car had a front end collision in 2010 that required it to be towed but, no mention of airbag deployment. How much should or would this effect the overall value. https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/6159935147.html Still exploring the red Aero optioned car. https://frederick.craigslist.org/cto/6177807847.html

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I think too much weight is given to preferring anally retentive sellers. Buy based on condition of the drivetrain (it's 75% of the car's value). Load too many heuristics into your decision making process and you'll end up with a 996 that has the *perfect* spec sheet but a nearly blown motor. As evidence, see all the guys that *need* a C4S, but neglect to verfiy the drivetrain health & end up 20k in the hold to start their ownership.

Welcome to RL! Welcome to the Dark Side as a 996 guy.

I'm headed out to look at the silver with red interior car tomorrow. My curious questions are: - Who buys a Porsche in 1999 with 2700 miles on the odometer and doesn't drive it? Carfax does show that it was always registered as a corporate vehicle so maybe the owner travelled a lot. I'll know more after tomorrow. - Do timing chain tensioners usually need replacing at so few miles? Or just insurance?

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Thats too bad on the chicago car. I don't remember if I saw that posted anywhere. I'm not sure on value, but it certainly does affect resale.

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Timing chain tensioners to my knowledge wear during running time of the engine and typically would need replacement after 70-80k miles. So no, I would not expect those to be replaced earlier. The big question is whether the car has been sitting for a few years without any driving (not so good) or maybe the owner just had multiple cars/did simply not drive a lot except occasional spin? And, whatever the use, were oil and other fluids (like brakes) still changed regularily? I sometimes see cars with a low mileage and only 1-2 maintenance stamps in the booklet and no invoices. I walked away of such cars. PS: liked the red Aero a lot, more then the silver with red interior. That one (the silver) might be OK but resale will be very hard at any time. My 2c.

Could I get additional advice on the red car? From what I can tell from the option sticker: - The car is not a factory aero optioned car but rather has had the aero side skirts added. Yes? - The rear spoiler is not an aero one??? - Car has LSD which is a nice option - 18" 993 turbo lightweight wheels - Traction control - No heated seats? And clearly the headlights and taillights have been "upgraded" I like them personally. What about the interior? Basic or the all leather option?

Looks like full leather.

I like the red car a lot too. Yes the aero bits aren't factory but they do look like the correct Porsche parts. I like the 3 spoke wheel too. The mileage is low making it a pretty good deal if it's been taken care of. I do hate the K&N "cold air" kit though.

All leather would be a nice option. I know it would need more maintenance but, I am used to that given I own a 95 Jaguar with all leather. Is the 3-spoke wheel an option/unique? I know others may disagree but, I too am not a fan of K&N filters. Probably I am biased from hearing of the damage they do to MAF sensors from improper/over oiling and not the fault of the filter itself. I have had good experiences with AEM dry filters in the past. The car Has been maintained by the dealer or by Autobahn Services in Fairfax, VA. Have records of oil changes, brake fluid flushes, filters, new battery, full tune-up etc... IMS/RMS/clutch/water pump are all original as are the 10 year old tires. The owner previous to the current owner had the car for 8.5 years and sold the car to move into a newer 911. Or so the story is told by the current owner. I can see selling a very low mileage, first year 996 at probably a decent price to fund moving into a newer model. And if he owned it for 8 years and put all of these "upgrades" into the car then he must have cared for it. He is the one who changed the headlights, taillights, added the aero bits, aluminum pedals, carbon fiber shift ****, cold air intake and possibly lowered the car. The current owner has owned it for only 9 months and his story, which I have no reason to doubt, is that he just bought a farm and needs to free up some cash. I can understand this as well. The current owner also owns a Mustang GT and a Mazda Miata so, sounds like a guy who likes his cars but, the Porsche is probably the one with the biggest car payment and why he is selling it. Thoughts? It's going in for a PPI on Thursday and I will move forward from there depending on the cars bill of health. I am a bit nervous about buying the car and immediately having to drive it 450 miles back home.

I wouldn't be nervous at all. The wife, my lil girl and I flew to Denver to get our 996. We drove it home to Dallas without any issue. No PPI. I had lots of conversations with owner beforehand and proof of ims, rms and clutch service at 75k. Car had 83k on it when we picked it up. These cars drive wonderfully although it's a bit small for longer trips. If you get a favorable PPI, fly drive and enjoy. Too many people here are spooked about things you literally have almost no control over.

^^ Don't be nervous. I once flew to Georgia from Chicago and bought a Triumph TR6 after it traveled about 1/8th mile of my trip due to a failed fuel pump. We bought the failed part, then went to the bank, closed the deal, went back to the airport on the side of the exit ramp, replaced the fuel pump, and I drove her all the way back to Chicago. I was a bit nervous. But then again, it was a British car.

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Backstory is backstory, some people will give it to you straight, and others will try to make up a story just to make it sound better. Can't really base off someones word, just have the PPI done and that's about as much comfort you can get along with a maintenance paper trail. All that said, I grabbed a rental and drove a couple states down to pick mine up. Drove the 700+ miles back the very next day no issues. And people warned of the low miles (23k), but the car itself appeared to be in great shape, so wasn't nervous a single mile on the trip back.

PPI came back with only a couple anomalies but nothing I think would kill the deal. 1. There is oil weeping from the back of the engine. Either RMS or IMS bearing. Plan on replacing soon. 2. Water pump and belt looks OK but, original. Will replace. 3. No evidence of any accidents but the PPI INDY said that the paint was thicker than most other Porsches he sees but, that the thickness was uniform and no signs of anything other than a factory paint job. What thick is I don't know. Maybe the red color is thicker than silver/black/gray??? 4. His computer showed that the car is not running within factory parameters but, wasn't off enough to trip a CEL. The technician advised that it was probably caused by the K&N filter and possible over oiling that could have contaminated the MAF sensor. He advised removing and cleaning the MAF sensor and going back to the OEM airbox. I never have liked K&N 5. Evidently the car has a short shifter installed and he said that the shaft appears to be bent to the left??? He also said that it hits on the shifter surround when putting the trans in reverse, though shifts fine in all other gears..

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"Not running within factory parameters" how, exactly? Seems like more information might be good to have. Like you, I'm no fan of K & N air filters. The basic proposition, if I understand it correctly, seems flawed ... take a more porous element, then coat it with oil so that contaminants stick to it. I had one on my V-Rod for a while but replaced it with an Amsoil dry filter. Less effort to maintain and the bike felt smoother on the butt dyno. Depending on which shifter you have in there, you may be able to use the Porsche alignment tool -- a precision piece of green plastic -- to line it up properly. The tool costs maybe ten bucks, IIRC, and you can get one from the usual suspects. There are a lot of threads on short shifters and shifter replacements. The 997 shifter is a popular modification and you can find them used in the $100 range. There's also a fellow named Ben who sells a modified shifter that has gotten a lot of good reviews. If cost isn't an issue, buy a Numeric Racing shifter. It's a great part and beautifully made ... you won't want to put the console over it because it looks so nice. Numeric also makes very good shift cables.