PSS9/PSS10 Surprise!!

A little long winded story, but a great ending. For the past several months I had been debating on what to do for replacing the worn out shocks on my 2000 C4 Cab. I looked at the Bilstein replacement shocks, both the HD and the Sport, but a set was over $1,000. Considered the ROW M030, which was actually less than a set of the shocks alone at Sunset, and of course includes springs, sway bars, etc. (still hard to believe that the whole set up is less than just the shocks). But the only sets for a C4 were in Germany, and I was concerned about the stiffness and ride height. Tried to go with the new Koni FSD�s, or alternatively Koni�s new adjustable shocks, but after some research I found that Koni does not make them for the front of a C4. Looked at other coil over systems, H&R, KW, KSport, etc. but they tend to be big bucks (except for the KSports). Of course I also considered Bilstein coil overs. I had looked at PPS9�s over the past few years, and now the new PSS10�s. Finally decided to go with Bilstein coil overs, however the PSS9�s are discontinued and the PSS10�s go for $2,400+++. There had been a set of PSS9�s on eBay for the last several months for a Buy It Now of $1,850 with shipping. They had been relisted several times without selling. I had called the seller to see if they would sell them for less than $1,850, but on the phone they were quoting $2,450. I talked with Vivid Racing and a couple of other sources to see if I could get PSS9�s thru them, but all said they were no longer available. And again the prices they quoted for a set of PSS10�s were about $2,600 delivered. Saw lots of PSS10�s for more than that. So Tuesday I decided to buy the PSS9�s on eBay and gave them the $1,850 Buy It Now. They shipped them out the same day, and when I got back to the house this afternoon the box was there. Looked at the box and saw that the number on the box was not the GM5-8848-H0 listed in the ad, which is the number for PSS9�s for a C4. Guess what, THEY ARE A BRAND NEW SET OF PSS10�S, PART NUMBER GM5-D535-H0!!!!!!! So a brand new set of PSS10�s for my car for only $1,850 including shipping. Have to say I am pretty happy with this. That is $700-$800+ less than anyplace else I checked. I think I will give the seller a Positive Feedback rating on eBay. Can�t wait to install them, hope to have time next week.

score!! awsome... But..uh..did ya look in the box?

Yea, first thing I did. They are definitely PPS10's. Silver and blue with the 10 settings. Also the numbers on the individual bags are the PSS10 numbers. The box was sealed from Bilstein.

You have to love that! Nice score.. The seller is going to bang his head against a wall somewhere!

I saw a couple of places where they advertised the pss10 for $2600, but they were not reputable shops. at that price that is a steal for sure ! shipping mistake or may be the pss9 were not in stock anymore and they gave you an upgrade...rental car company style ! I think I'm gonan go look on ebay for PSS9 lol BTW, are you gonna install those yourself ? anyways report on driving impressions

Install my self, then get an alignment.

Doug, install is CAKE... couple hours on a C2... maybe a little more for the C4 but when your smiling so freaking big cus the wood in your pants wont go away knowing you scored like that.. the time will pass quickly! before and after pics are a must !! YOU ROCK DOG!! maybe its Karma for all the help you have given all the people here!!! (OH Gawd, I am in deep $hit!)

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You help people out, just in your own way. Or maybe you are always in the way of helping people out. I forget. But either way, Karma is probably going to hit you with a piano or something. You should stay indoors for a while - just not on eBay. -td

HAHA Tom !!

You probably won't like them. I'll take them off your hands if you're lookinjg for a buyer. Of course, I rather like them on my 993 turbo.

I hope you can post detail diy as I am this close to pull trigger on pss10 but dealer quoted me 6 hours install -> 700 bucks !!! Especially interested in any special tool required before starting this

Let's see if I understand the situation here: You willingly pay the $1850 for PSS9s because the PSS10s were going for significantly more, both through this seller and other reputable shops. The seller makes a mistake and sends the wrong thing, and you feel it's fine to keep them and not mention it to the seller? I guess it's okay if someone gets screwed if it's anonymous.....can't say it's too honorable though. Probably wouldn't be bragging too much about your big score.

philooo - C2 or C4? I have been told that with a C2 you can compress the shocks and get them out from under the fenders (be careful) but that on the front of a C4 the drive shaft, etc. makes this more difficult and you may have to remove the strut from the bottom suspension piece, which requires a tool. If you do a search here and on Renntech you will find lots of info and write-ups. Although the only one I have found for an install is for the ROW M030 on a C2.

All I gotta say is "Every once and a while a blind hog stumbles up on a acorn". Keep them, change your name, move to a different city, shave your mustache and don't get caught. Very seldom do we ever get pay back.

Leftlane - Not sure if I agree with you totally although I can somewhat see your point. The eBay listing for the PSS9's had been on for 3+ months, and kept on being extended as they did not sell for the $1,850. I called the seller, a commercial shop, two or three times to see if they would negotiate on the price as the units had not sold. Each time they quoted a price for the PSS9's (I never requested or received a price for PSS10's from them and I have never seen an eBay listing for PSS10's for a C4 by them) that was $2,400+. I would point out that the eBay listing was for $1,850 and they would say well the price was $2,400+. So if they have an eBay listing for $1,850 Buy It Now, and then when you call them they quote a price that is $550+ more on the phone is that honest/honorable of them? Not sure. In any case do they even have a set of PSS9's for my car? Not sure. If they have a set in the storeroom, and someone shipped the wrong ones, then maybe you are right. But if they are advertising PSS9's and really only have PSS10's then I don't think you are right. Guess I will have to give this some thought. In any case, I don't think they are loosing money on the sale, just making less.

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Sorry, I agree.

Give them a call and explain what happened. They'll most likely say oh well - just keep 'em. You'll sleep better and your stock will rise a little with the good folks on this board.

I agree - I'm sure if you had ponied up for the PSS10s and the box came and they were PSS9s, you'd be on the phone with them immediately to fix it and probably posting a thread about how they were so dumb they couldn't even get a simple order right. Has to work both ways to be fair....

+1. With cost of shipping back and forth, may not be worth it for them to take it back. You will sleep better. FM

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Bawhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!

Uh Oh

Oh, this is good!

Call 'em, ask for the owner or manager.

For info my car is a C2. The best DIY I have seen so far is this one https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-included.html It made me feel good about it doing it myself, but this is just a spring change and I wonder if the coilover replacement over stock might require some bits and pieces I might not know about. About the conscience issue, I'd say that it is their mistake and wasting your time trying to help them learn how to do their logistic is a little too much. it is one thing to be nice when you don't have to go out of your way. But if that involve shipping, refund, ect ect... I think they should pay you when they make a mistake and they never do. Anyways it is not like you are ripping them off $10k. w are talking $500. So if you are a professional and time worth money, the $500 will only get them so far...

Ahh, the power of the darkside is strong in this one

I'm sure he sold them as such since they were bought by the seller as such. Just because others didn't get a good deal.....enjoy the deal. I swear all these angels coming out of the wood work when you get a deal better than they could imagine.

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So if you feel guilty I'll buy it for a hundred more and pay shipping. There isn't distributor, wholesaler or retailer that would receive a shipment of superior items than ordered and call the shipper. I worked shipping for a a distributor before and believe me the items you list as expensive are cheap. Manufacturer price doubled+ by distributor, boubled+ again going to wholeseller, retailer doubles+ again. You made them a profit no matter what. A 2k item is commonly 250 or so from the manufacturer. Could be a guy in good with the salemen and staff at a distributor got the products at cost from the manufacturer. I used to get that deal on titanium scuba regulators and other high end scuba products. You feeling bad would be just as bad as believing some ads on infomercials. Love it big guy and enjoy.

Wow, this post took a turn that I did not expect. Apparently there are a few members here that think I am being dishonorable, taking advantage of and victimizing the poor Ebay Store and Power Seller. Not quite sure I can agree with this. It would appear that my good fortune is the result of a combination of poor inventory control/warehousing/order processing and eBay rules. If a seller (particularly an eBay Store or Power Seller) lists an item for sale it is the responsibility of the seller to have the item they are offering, not to think they have it, or to have lost it, or can’t find it, etc. etc. And if they have relisted the item for several months, well the expectation is that maybe they have confirmed they have the item. And if they buyer commits to buying the item the buyer has an obligation to pay for the item at the price agreed to and a right to expect to receive the item at the very least, and if the seller has a problem delivering the item it is their responsibility to make good, or provide an even greater value. And a refund is not appropriate. If it was sellers could offer things all day long, and then if they are unsatisfied, well just refund the money. That would be the end of the eBay system. In this case the seller did the right thing; they delivered something even better than that they committed to. I think this was honorable of them and shows a strong commitment to Customer Service. And it would hardly be worth it if they were to jeopardize the Ebay Store/Power Seller status and rating, which Ebay rules would allow, for a couple of hundred dollars. So I am not going to get into debates on whether they ever had the PSS9’s, or lost them, or can’t find them on a timely basis. They did the right thing and it worked to my advantage so I thank them and will give them a great feedback and rating, and will give them my business in the future. I have to say that this is not the first time I have gotten more than I bargained for on eBay, or have given more than I committed to. When I bought an OEM water pump for my car the seller included a gasket that was not part of the auction, with a note that he hoped it would be helpful. When I sold a set of Harley Fork legs I included a fork seal that I had in a drawer that was not a part of the auction, with a note to the buyer. And when I sold a Harley hydraulic clutch kit the buyer asked if I had a few related parts, and I put them in the box for him with a note. And guess what, I gave the seller a great review and received a great reviews from both buyers. And in my business (residential real estate development and construction) we always go beyond the commitments we make. I once included a spec for a certain dishwasher in a new home under construction. When the home was completed that dishwasher was no longer available, so I gave them the new, more expensive model, at no cost to them and without question. This is just one example of how we do business, and 90%+ of my business is repeat and referrals. So maybe my first post came off wrong, and certainly some of the comments gave me pause to think, but I know I can sleep at night. What else can I say?

^ I agree Doug. You ordered PSS9s and the seller may have sold out because they could not locate anymore PSS9. The seller may not have made money but no seller would have lost money to an ebay "one time sale" customer on a transaction like this. The seller over delivered. End of story.

I don't think anyone implied you were being dishonest or anything. Most folks who chimed in just suggested to check with them if this was intentional or if they had made a mistake and wanted to rectify it (at their expense) before calling this good luck. A good businessman would not take it back anyway. Enjoy it. To get back to the interesting stuff: I am considering this mod and would very much like to get your driving impressions before and after. Detailed pics of before and after, as well as installation steps pics would be awesome. FM

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Completely agree! Now put those buggers on.......

Well.....You paid a decent sum of money for a certain product and got a bit of an upgrade, not through any scam or any sort of deception on your part, so there is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about, you did nothing wrong. The only thing you did wrong was wait so long to install them.... Put them on and give us a nice review and write -up.

What an interesting thread. I know what I would do but that doesn't mean I'm right. As long as Doug is comfortable with the deal I see no reason to play out some ethics game here. Enjoy and you're a lucky dog!

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Put them on your Porsche and enjoy them...without any regrets.

Doug... you've helped alot of people on this board with your engine/head re-build, consider this karma paying you back. Enjoy your new suspension with no ill thoughts. BTW, the difference between PSS9 (what he originally thought he bought) vs PSS10 is nill. It is basically the same suspension, the 10 has a click that you can hear and the adjustments has 10 instead of 9, but the stiffness range is the same. The 10 has an extra resolution, that is all.... So, it is essentially the same suspension. Its about time that one of us got something for what it should of costs rather than some marketing gimmick to part more $$$ from our pockets.

poor Dougs head is a mess today HEY If I send you a GT2 wing it will make ALL your troubles go away !!

But just think if this is Kama's payback, and Doug calls just to make sure they did indeed wanted to send him PSS10's.... Kama will be like "Great, now what do I do?". I'll tell you what she will do. Doug is going to buy a Honda civic on ebay next week and end up taking delivery on a 997 GT3 or some ****. It's a vicious circle. End it now Doug, and slap those bad boys on! That is unless you want a 997 GT3 for the price of a civic.....

I have been given too much change from a store a few times. Once I didn't notice until I was in my car at the parking lot. I'm not a hero, and it was a bit of a hassle to go back in, but I slept well on each occasion. Why would you speculate as to whether they made a mistake when you can make a direct inquiry? Maybe an employee made a shipping error. I'm not telling you how to live your life, but I would think about this every time I opened the door to my car. My honor is worth a lot more than $500. Let them know. They may tell you to enjoy them in good health.

It sounded like you benefited from a mistake. If you're sure that's not the case then press on. As someone pointed out, if they shipped you Koni non-adjustables you'd be on the blower in a heartbeat. Anyway - You'll love the PSS10s. I've had PSS9s for 4 years now. It's lots of fun tweaking them and seeing how the handling of the car changes. I went with -1.0 camber on the fronts (that's all they could give me). The car tramlines on the freeway but the turn-in and the grip the fronts have is a blast. Take some before and after photos of the car's ride height. It's amazing how dropping the car just a bit really adds some agression to the look.

You are right that if I had ordered PSS10's and they had shipped PSS9's I would ask for a refund. But I think that is entirely different. In any case the seller seems happy and did not ask me to return the item, they did the right thing in shipping something as good or better than they committed to, and I am also happy. So I am not going to shave my mustache (or the beard or the head), change my name or move. I am just going to install them next week, give the seller a great review and try to give them more business in the future. Now if I could only find that Civic that would turn into a GT3, but I don't think I have been that good in life. Thanks for everyone's input, time to move on.

So in the review you are going to leave, are you going to mention the upgrade?

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\ Don't mean to intimate that you are dishonest at all, but you really are just rationalizing that the seller intentionally overdelivered by shipping something better than what they committed to. Odds are they made a mistake, which you would know for sure with one phone call, but you don't want to make that call just in case they say "oops, please send back and we'll send you the right ones". In your review of the transaction, post the specifics and see what happens - maybe they did decide to just bump you up to something worth $500 more for no reason at all.

Now I understand using tazers on old ladies

Back on the topic of pss10... are you planning on purchasing any new replacement Porsche parts for this install ? bushings, nuts and bolts ? I assume that while you are in there, it might be a good idea to replace a couple of cheap parts with new ones ?

I'm with the "call and ask if they meant to do it" crowd. Why not call? It's easy and really is the right thing to do. Imagine if you were a one man business that sold merchandise through the mail, you accidentally shipped the customer something he did not order (an unintentional upgrade). You'd kick yourself, and you'd be grateful if the receiver called you and asked if you really meant to do do that. They may say that they meant to do it, or they may thank you for catching the mistake and you can keep it, or they may say they would like you to return it.

Doug great story. you will love 'em. i am enjoying my pss9s and they make a huge difference. keep the story going. roy

pss10s h+r sways tarret camber plates,you will love them enjoy!

Randy, really cool pictures, do you have a check list of parts you installed ? I se you have tarret camber plates, may be other little gizmos in there ? I see you ahve HR sway, why not GT3 ? too bad bilstein is not selling some cool blue painted sway to match the PSS one more thing.. what is that spoiler you have under your front bumper ? do you have static wing in the back ?

thanks philloo,along with the pss10s i went with the front camber plates from tarret,and rear toe control arms and outer tiie rods also from tarret,as far as the sway bars go i got a great deal on the h+r sways,they have a great reputation,build quality is excellent,etc,and im sure a little less expensive than oem gt3 sways,i believe after talking to alot of people that these add ons to the pss10s were smart because of the flexibility you need when it comes to alignment and setting the car up for possible weekend track use,i had a 2004 gt3 euro/30mm drop alignment spec performed by the shop after the install,and the adjustability of the sways the pss10s and the rear toe control arms really come together nice.by the way its critical to trust the shop whos doing the install and the alignment,lots of tweaking with the alignment,i had to go back a month later and they readjusted a few things because the suspension needed to settle.its pretty involved getting the camber right and some other things,done right you will reduce some tire wear,of course you then can decide on adjusting the height of the car and how stiff or soft you like it.im going with the pss10s set full stiff,they felt fine in that position,even daily driving not to radical,dont get me wrong it feels much stiffer,but the car feels like its on rails! incredible difference from the stock setup.the front spoiler is from gemballa,its called the gt lip,i liked it because it was kinda of suttle and only lowered the front slightly the fitment was excellent,witch can sometimes be a problem with aftermarket parts.the rear spoiler is the factory carrera spoiler,mostly scene on cabs,again i liked it because its not that loud and compliments the side aerokit rockers nicely,and of course that replaced the motorized factory spoiler,anyway good luck!start saving your pennies(dollars).......porsche fever in full effect.

Hey Dough, did you finally install those PSS10 ? or did I miss a thread ?

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GMG sways are blue.

Side bar:..... I have a set of PSS10's that were revalved by Bilstein before they left the factory to handle 700f/900r springs. They were used for 4 weekends before JRZ offered me their shocks to demo for the 996 Spec series. The revalved Bilstein's are a great shock and I'll sell them with the 700/900 springs or the original springs for $2,200. My costs were 2600 + 600 revalving + 400 swift springs.....

Got the PSS10's in a had it aligned last week. Just haven't had time to to a post yet. Have some pictures of the before and after and some info on installing them, particularly on the front of a C4.

Ever post those pics, Doug...

Doug: I've seen your DIY before, would be nice to see your write-up for the PSS10's. The stock set-up for my C2 2002 is driving me crazy...don't know how they sold it this way. The rear is stiff and the front is too soft, comes up on hard accelerations. Looking to upgrade but don’t want suspension shutter like I had in my 2000 996 with upgraded springs.