Rubber bits in my oil filter

I changed my oil yesterday while I was replacing my secondary air system components. The old oil filter looked perfectly normal, but I decided to cut it apart to see what might be caught between the pleats. Little bits of rubber. No metal flakes at all, but something is disintegrating in there. Anybody ever seen this? 1999, C2 cab w/ 60,300 miles.

It might be sealant from the oil pan.... If it is, it's no big deal.

Timing chain guides?

when was the last oil change, was filter done then, what type of oil, any recent repairs? looks like sealant but might be bits from an oring from the oil fill tube if it was replaced, maybe some other place?

Great Pic!

I like the sealant from the oil pan explanation. It's like rubber. If it's a harder plastic then I'd think the timing chain guides are like that.

Could also be from the rubber "dry sump" box in the oil pan?

how plyable is it.. is it more hard plastic or rubber band ish?

The rubber bits are kind of soft, not like crispy plastic. The last oil and filter change was Mobile 1, 0W-40 about 4,000 miles ago. Unfortunately the rubber bits remind me of a main bearing type of rubber after it gets a little hardened. Or, it kind of seems like rubber bits from rubber timing belt, which this car does not have. At the last oil change, I did the 60k service which was actually done at 56,500 miles, which was about 4,000 miles ago. At the 60k service I also replaced all the spark plug tubes and O rings. This time I put in redline 5W-40. weird

Hope it's nothing big, but it sure looks worrisome

The timing pads plastic is hard and more brown then black in color. I would drain the oil and drop the pan to see if there is more and if you can figure out what it is. Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

Are there o-rings on the dip stick and oil fill tube? If its rubber then maybe thats what they look like after being chewed up run through the cam passages.

I wish Jake Rabi shed some light in here, but I think these particles may cause problems if they plug something and create hot spots.

One of the many reason why I think owners should do Used Oil Analysis, with a lab like Blackstone, for example. May have caught this sooner, and know more about the actual content of the contamination. These UOA cost about $25 including postage. Cefalu, hope this gets worked out for you soon. Lastly, this (cutting open the oil filter) is another good step to perform when doing a PPI.

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I just ordered a kit from Blackstone last week... Having an oil analysis is like getting your cholesterol checked- better to be safe than sorry!

The path of oil flow, what we seek. Instead of asking, "what these pieces are from" ask, "get there how did they?" Hmm Hmm?

I know the valve covers don't take gaskets. You put sealant on then flush mate the covers to the heads. In my opinion thats a length like 20 feet or so worth of goop that has been sqeezed and hanging on by an ultra thin attachment. I figure give that stuff a chance and it will flush through the oil system starting from the top of the heads. Best if the worker isn't applying an overly amount of gasket sealant.

seriously, doesnt the pump pick up oil and send it to the filter then out to engine? how would the pump pick up this junk, isnt there a screen?

I just rebuilt my engine & I don't think it's anything suggested in this thread. It's hard to tell from this picture but it could be IMS bearing seal material. I would call LN engineering & talk to them after reading their website. Also need to remove the oil sump plate cover to clean the rest of that trash off the oil pump pickup screen. Remember what's in the filter is the pieces small enough to get thru the screen.

Dislodged original O ring? Go count your old ones. Or new spark plug tube O ring, any oil leaks?

No oil leaks, normal oil pressure, all tube o rings accounted for...... I am going to park it and get an oil analysis.

looks like it could be sealant from the valve covers

I don't have any pics to show this but I suspect the rubber's from the oil sump baffles. The chain guide material is a very hard composite plastic, very dark brown, almost black and a lighter brown, a dark caramel color. If the stuff's soft enough to depress with a fingernail then oil sump baffles. This is worth I think dropping the pan to confirm. If it is the oil baffles you know and you can replace these. They serve to help keep the oil around the oil pickup and if they're compromised the oil sump may suck air or at least more highly aerated oil and this ain't good. Sincerely, Macster.

My worst fear is the IMS bearing seal. But I don't know if that seal can disintegrate and get into the oil system. And, I think there would need to be play in the IMS bearing to make the seal come apart. If there was play in the bearing, I should have seen metal particles in the filter, and there was none. I also just changed the oil, and there is nothing leaking at the engine / trans joint. All is dry. I don't drive the Porsche very often, but it used to make lifter noises when I would start it after a two week rest. Just for a second, that's it. But that lifter noise after a long rest seemed different this weekend. I will pay closer attention tomorrow morning. It almost sounded like a chain until the tensioner took the slack out., but again just for a second while cold. It's not the marbles in a coffee can sound....... I think that dropping the oil pan makes sense, even if only to inspect the oil pickup screen. If this stuff made it through the screen.....

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Been watching Star Wars during the holiday break? I second Macster's opinion that it's the oil baffles. Dougaldo, best of luck getting this resolved.

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The screen's very coarse so large pieces of lightweight material can be pulled in. They go through the high pressure pump and then get caught at the filter. That the pieces were that large suggests they did *not* also go through the scavage pump so the source of the rubber can't be far away. Oil baffles is the nearest source of soft rubber that know of that can account for the stuff you pictured. IMS bearing seal stuff is not black either, IIRC, but green. And the bits would have been finer. And that seal material is of a harder material than the rubber oil pan baffles. A bit of lifter noise upon startup after a 2 week period of no use is normal. Remember when the engine is shut off the oil is (or should be) hot. Some lifters are under compression and this is going to over time squeeze oil out of the lifters' internal chambers. Depending upon other factors it take some time after engine start before the lifters refill with oil with no air pockets. Until this air pocket free refill occurrs lifter noise is to be expected. My Porsche techs tell me for engines that see intermittent use and days or more between engine starts Swepco 502 oil treatment can quiet the engine down and this suggests less wear/tear is occurring. I've tried this stuff but my cars see regular use and I didn't notice any difference in startup noise. A bottle costs under $10 (barely) at my local dealer. You might try a bottle if you want and see if you notice any decrease in lifter noise upon startup. Or, you could just drive the car more often. Two weeks between uses... you ought to be ashamed. Sincerely, Macster.

Where is Jake Raby when we need him?

Well, I drove my car to work yesterday (wow 5 miles), and with a 40 degree morning, it started and ran with zero lifter or chain noise. No unusual mechanical engine sounds at all. Maybe the change from 0W-40 to 5W-40 did the trick. I still need to figure out the source of the plastic bits though.

I'd not be driving that car until I knew what the issue was. But, that's just me.

Do you still have the oil that came out of the drain plug? maybe filter that through a coffee filter. you might find larger bits of rubber that give you some clue as to where this came from.

Yes, I still have the oil and I am waiting for an oil analysis kit from blackstone so I can see if I can't get some additional data about the motor.

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Where is the old oil stored? It is probably contaminated and not worth testing. The UOA won't tell you much right now. But, had you been doing them regularly, they would have given you early warning signs. Still, I don't understand why you are driving the car until resolved.

The oil will be fine according to the Blackstone website. It’s sealed in the same one quart bottles my new oil came in. I suppose I could have towed the car, but I keep my car in a storage garage near my office. I live in SF and can’t leave it on the street for more than a couple of days without getting towed. Leaving it at home is not an option. Like I said, zero engine noises, no metal whatsoever in the filter, and runs perfect. It was a calculated risk I understand and accept. I won’t be driving it again until I see the results of the oil analysis though. Then I will be deciding my next move. Probably to drop the oil pan and take a peek to see what is going on in the sump.

FedEx the sample to Blackstone, this will save you several days of waiting time. They are pretty quick once they get your sample. They will e-mail the results to you in either a PDF or WORD document.

Car still running?

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Could be just a change in oil. My cars are quieter after an oil change. The fresh oil is more viscous cause it hasn't accumulated a load of water and unburned gasoline like oil with miles on it has. That 5 mile trip is a bit of a problem. At a bay area Porsche dealer (Rector in fact) some years ago and came upon a Carrera engine torn down for an IMS bearing problem. Tech told me engine salvageable. I asked him some details on the car cause I wanted to know more about how an IMS bearing failure could come about and he said the car's a typical "SF" car. The car sees 5 miles to work in the AM. A few miles at lunch. Then 5 miles home in the PM. Repeat maybe 5 days a week. This car's engine only had 20K miles on it. Pistons heavily coated with dark deposits. These cars and their engines really benefit from being taken out and driven some distance. No need to go all John Force with the car, but longer trips are a good thing. You just changed the oil/filter. If I were you I'd consider dropping the filter housing and pouring the oil out into a clean container. If the oil's free of any debris... you really still need to consider the oil baffles. The baffles may not be shedding any more stuff -- right now -- but they've shed some and their ability to help keep oil around the pickup and aerated away from the pickup has been compromised. If the debris is again present, you need to get the source of the debris id'd. Not sure an oil analysis will be of much use. The seal/rubber bits will be indistinquishable from the oil under spectrum analysis. If there is metal though, or coolant, this will show up. Sincerely, Macster.

No driving, it's just resting. I am waiting for the Blackstone oil test results. But it sounds and runs better than ever with the secondary air system parts changed and new oil. I think the resonance flaps were not functioning due to the secondary air valve failure. They are both operated from the same vacuum line. But yes, once I have time I plan to drop the pan to see what is going on in there. Had I not cut open my filter I would not have ever suspected a problem. I wonder how many people on this board actually cut open their oil filters and take a look? I don't commute with this car, that's what my bikes are for. This car gets used on weekends, and does get some decent long drives. I understand the importance of getting the oil hot.

I cut my filter and unrolled it and found no rubber bits or metal particles at all with 53k miles.

My next oil change I will do autopsy on filter.

Any news?

Still waiting on blackstone, nothing yet.

Came across this today. Interesting bit about Plastic bits in the oil filter being from failing IMS bearing cage . http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...13/487005.html "We have seen numerous engine issues in Porsche Boxster, 996 and early 997s as a result of the IMS bearing failing," says Autofarm workshop manager Robin Bartholomew. "Customers who experience the first tell tale signs of a bearing failure such as plastic or golden metal particles in the oil or filter may already have incurred engine damage. The IMS bearing should be a maintenance item and be properly cared for just like a cam belt and be replaced accordingly. The upgraded specification of our kit, together with a scheduled replacement should prevent premature wear that ultimately results in catastrophic failures."

No news yet from Blackstone, they seem pretty slow, or maybe it's the USPS. No matter car is still resting. Aside from the seal, did Porsche really use a plastic bearing cage in the IMS bearing?

Uh oh you sent oil a flamable liquid via the US postal service neglecting to declare hazardous material ! You skipped the $50 well probably $75 hazmat fee. You will wake up with homeland securty dragging you down the hall to a paddy wagon.

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Very funny but the OP has nothing to worry about. There is a form on the Blackstone web site that explains why shipping these samples is safe and not hazardous. The OP should call them and ask if they received the sample. I have sent in a dozen of these from various cars and the turnaround is usually about a week. When I needed the results quickly, I overnighted or did 2 day express. They test those arrivals first as they expect there is a reason for the expedited delivery.

Cefalu, check your "spam" file that you are using for your Blackstone report. For some reason, when they send me the report to my Yahoo account, it goes into the spam file. FYI.

My sample took a while to get to Blackstone Lab via USPS but when it gets there they immediately tested it and sent out the results. Total time was 3 weeks for me. Good-luck!

On some?? Looked like a plastic cage on the one that an RL 'er just posted a pic of, it fell apart when he pulled the seal to allow more oil in to the bearing. The cage that fell out with the ***** following sure looked like black plastic. I will see if I can find the post.

My oil sample came back to me in the mail last week! It never made it to blackstone! It spent two weeks floating around the USPS, only to reach its sender. I re-addressed it and sent it off again, but no results yet. Sorry for the lame update. But, I put the Porsche up on jackstands in preperation for a clutch / IMS replacement yesterday. Time to order up all the parts. My clutch is slipping a bit and a little grabby, so it's time for a clutch change anyhow. It has about 61,000 miles on the clutch, so it's not a big surprise. And as long as I'm in there.....I'll do the IMS bearing. I also removed the latest oil filter and cut it open. I would say I have put about 1,000 miles on the oil and filter since I replaced it last. The filter was perfect. Not a spec of anything on the filter. The car runs perfect (grabby/slipping clutch aside) and makes zero funny noises. In my opinion, the perfect opportunity to make sure it stays that way with an IMS upgrade. Once I start the process, I'll shoot out some updates. I saw that someone else replaced the AOS system, maybe it's a good opportunity to tackle that as well. Any other "as long as you are in there" jobs? Not that I am looking forward to wrenching on this thing in the middle of the winter on a cold concrete slab......

I don't think that is oil pan gasket material; it much too thick IMO. That looks like some someone else said was a chewed up o-ring of some kind. Here are a couple pics from when I did the X51 oil pan on my 4S. The pick up tube did have bits of gasket material on it; it was almost like flat dental floss; very thin and stringy. I had to scrape the mating surfaces with a razor blade to clean them off. More Pics HTH. GL with your resutls.

The results are in and Blackstone noted nothing unusual except some silicon. But the air filter was new when the oil was last changed, so it's not a dirty air filter. However, I did use some silicone to seal the cam solenoids that were weeping. That might be the source. I sure didn't use very much though. The car is still on blocks waiting for me to get the time to pull the tranny. Following was the note from Blackstone, but the full results are attached. Car ran perfect when I parked it. Oh, and when I changed the oil a couple of weeks ago I dissected the last oil filter and it was perfectly clean. From Blackstone: DOUG: Thanks for the note. We don't know what the plastic was, but the filter apparently caught it because nothing like that was in suspension in this oil sample. High silicon was the only unusual find in your Carrera's oil. Silicon can come from lots of places: silicone sealers and lubricants, additives, or a dirty air filter. If you haven't used any additives or lubricants that might have left silicone in the oil, then we suggest checking the air filter. Wear was normal, showing no problems. The oil was free of coolant or fuel contamination. Looks like a nice engine from here!

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26ppm is not very much. The average is 8ppm. Silicon is generally an byproduct of the engine ingesting dirt. However, in your car's case I suspect the silicon came from the sealant you used. The stuff gets squeezed down very thin - to just a couple of thousandths of an inch thick -- and if none showed up outside of the engine at the mating joint then one has to believe the stuff got squeezed down and any excess ended up on the oil. That the filter is clean after some miles says that wherever the bits and pieces of what you found is coming from is not an on-going source. This is typical of a bit too much sealer that has some end up in the oil. There'll be a relatively large amount then nothing. Sincerely, Macster.

OK, I pulled the trans yesterday in prep for the IMS bearing replacement and new clutch. The thread is here https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ms-thread.html All in all not a bad job. But I have a ways to go.

Wow, good for you to be another brave one to tackle this job on your own.GL

Good luck on the job and thanks for the good photos on the attached thread. I'm going to have to do this job sometime in the near future too ... so I'm subscribed

OK, I pulled the bearing and its perfect. rubber race covers intact and bearing is tight, zero play. Actually a little firm to turning like grease is resisting. No burnt oil smell, just clean engine oil pouring out from behind the bearing. Zero oil between the bearing and the flange plate. Easy job.

To wrap up this thread, I changed out the IMS bearing and the car runs just like it did before; perfect. I also changed the oil and replaced the filter. I took the filter apart and it looked like new. Zero debris. The debris was not the IMS bearing, but whatever it was it's not generating any new pieces. The last two filters I dissected were clean. But I will stick to a 5K oil/filter change cycle and do filter dissections from now on. But at least I now know my IMS bearing is good and I won't be worrying about it. My next big project will be in 5k miles (at 65k) I will be replacing the water pump while I do an oil change. The last thing I want to deal with is broken impeller bits clogging the water passages. At that time I will drop the pan and take a look, since the bits obviously did not come from the bearing. My guess is chain guides. But the engine is very quiet and does not make any funny noises on startup or while running.

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The chain guides are made up of alum. faced with composite plastic. This plastic is very durable and hard. You can't mistake it for rubber. If the 'rubber bits' are not sealant fragments about the only place I can think of where they are coming from is from the baffles in the oil sump. To get at these you need to remove the oil sump cover. If I'm right, the risk is the oil baffling is compromised and under some driving conditions the oil pick up may not have sufficient oil around it (thanks to the baffles having come apart some) and the engine oil pump could ingest aeroated oil or even if the baffling in real bad shape air. Of course if the oil pump does this big expensive trouble could happen. Sincerely, Macster.

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Macster, Since you have logged some substantial miles in a M96 engined boxster, have you ever seen anything in your filters? Of course I am assuming that you cut them all apart. The reason I ask is that I changed my oil this weekend and found a few little rubber bits. Nowhere near the size or volume of Cefalu's car, not even close. I had to individually inspect each pleat to find them after I cut the bottom and top. I did see a few very very (fine ground pepper) small metal flakes (no more than 5 total) in a few of the pleats. I haven't had the LN IMS bearing done and I was going to hold off if the filter came out perfect and the blackstone report came back normal. Car runs like a champ and I change the oil every 6 months or 5k.

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First I do not cut the oil filters apart. I do look at the oil when it drains from the Boxster's oil sump, engine crankcase/tank (in the case of the Turbo) and the 2 times I did the Cayman's oil from its sump as well. I do when possible pour the filter housing oil out into a clean drain pan. The interesting bits, if there are any and one hopes always there are not, are in this oil. Now I have pics of my Cayman's first oil change the filter housing, filter, and the filter oil looked terrible. If one didn't know any better the engine looked to be on its last legs. (It ran just fine after than 750 mile oil change, was running just fine at the 1400 mile oil change (and the oil was almost free of any metallic sheen) and the engine was running just fine when I had the dealer change the oil shortly after break in (2000+ miles). What color is the 'rubber'? Black? Green? Or some other color? I do not think what you found is serious. I do not know the mileage on your car, its history, but it may be the oil baffles are starting to come apart. Or what you believe is rubber is instead the sealant that is used to seal the engine's cast oil passages. This no matter how careful, how sparse this is applied, always manages to get squeezed out. In some areas the sealant gets ripped away from the rest. In other more protected areas the sealant can remain for a long time. Eventually, if the engine runs long enough all of this will be shed and the engine empty. I'd dare say my engine's run long enough. (Although I think I mentioned recently the engine's passenger side camshaft cover was removed to R&R the VarioCam solenoid and actuator. I'm sure the tech was very careful with the sealant but even so, I would not be surprised to find some of these sealant in the oil filter oil. In fact I intend to next oil change -- the oil was drained before the job was started then fresh oil put in the negien after the camshaft cover buttoned up -- to catch this oil and look it over carefully, take pics. Then the following oil change do the same and compare the oils from the two different oil changes.) Anyhow, from the description (metal flakes) I suspect what you found is a what was left of a piece of alum. that fell from the inside of the engine (there's alot of surface area and most of it is made up up alum., cast alum.) that after having gone through at least the high pressure oil pump was flattened out to near foil thickness and broken up into more pieces. This makes a tiny piece of alum. look like a 'lot'. From what you report I don't suspect the IMS bearing is faiilng. 'course I can't offer any promises it won't fail tomorrow. My WAG based on what I've read/heard is these bearings go from good to bad in a short time. One probably has -- if he is lucky -- about a 100 mile window from where there is no sign of any trouble to where there's unmistakable sign, most likely sickening engine noises. If you are really concerned, change the oil/filter then run the engine a while. Take it on a drive of 20 miles. No need to get all crazy with the car just drive it normally. Then back at the shop drop the filter housing and look at the oil and filter. If the bearing's coming apart I think you'd see signs. Sincerely, Macster.