My long, sad 996 story - must read :)

Hi all! I am new here and I have a somewhat funny, somewhat sad story for you. I have owned a Mazda MX-5 Miata (06) for about 4 years. Great car, reliable, handles well. I went into the Nissan dealership to test a 370Z that they had on special, it was a 2010 they were trying to clear out. Anyway, I liked the car, but we couldn't agree on a price. They started to tell me about this Porsche they had received. Apparently, an older gentleman from the area traded it in because he could no longer get in and out of it easily. It was a 1999 C2, one owner (I have the carfax), mint condition. Now, at that point, I really didn't know much about Porsche's (big mistake, right). So I did some homework, came back and drove the car again. Ever since the first test drive, the car made a knocking noise from the rear end while at idle. I knew it wasn't right. Everyone at the dealer including the master tech gave me the run around, saying that all expensive sports cars do that (total BS, I know!). They just wanted me to buy the car and leave. Little did they know I am not an idiot or sucker, I am a motorcycle mechanic, I know a thing or two about engines. I thought it might be one of the cats ratting, but since it passed smog with flying colors, I knew it wasn't that. They said that if I bought it, they would put a warranty on it for me, and fix any problem, if there was one (which they denied). Here was my mistake - I loved the car so much from the test drives, that when they quoted me a good deal on it, I signed the papers (I did make sure to get the warranty). I traded in my perfectly functioning Miata - biggest mistake of my life. So, yesterday they tell me it is ready to pick up. Now, I knew there was a problem, the noise was getting worse. They still denied. The master tech who was supposed to meet with me, was mysteriously gone home for the day (he was there, they just lied to me, I found out later). As I am pulling out of the driveway of the dealership, the clacking sound from the rear got much worse, and the car died and would not restart. I believe the engine seized. I believe the IMS bearing has failed! They push the car back to the dealer, give me a loaner, and I start to express my frustration to the dealership. They have lied to me every step of the way and insulted my intelligence. They are a Nissan dealer, not Porsche, why on earth they can claim to know that this noise from a 911 is normal, is outrageous to me! But that's what they claimed. I found a sound clip on this forum of a 996 that had the IMS failure. It sounded exactly like this car I bought. So I am pretty sure that's what has happened. Here is where I stand. I am going to ask for my Miata back, I don't want anything more to do with this dealer or with this particular car. It's not that I don't love the 996, but this whole situation has me sick to my stomach. The good news is that they have to fix whatever is wrong, which in my opinion is going to mean a whole new engine from Porsche. Now, if the car is sent to a Porsche mechanic and receives a new engine, do you all think I should still take the car? My inclination is to get my Miata back and end this whole nightmare right now. Thanks for any advice. I am so stressed out over this, kicking myself for being such an idiot, and mad at the dealer. This is like a bad dream. Don't tell me I am an idiot for buying it, I know that much already . But fortunately for me, it's under warranty and didn't even make it out of the dealer before seizing.

Do you have a picture of this car?

Tell the dealer you'll honor the transaction if they install a new motor under the warranty they agreed to (I assume you have that in writing). Problem solved.

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+1

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I promise everyone, if this dealer does not resolve the problem for me, I will be posting pics of the car, the VIN number, the dealer info, the info on all their staff... I will cause a PR nightmare for them if they do not treat me honorably. I am a marketing director, I know all the local media in my area. I can be their worst nightmare if they decide to screw me over. Hopefully I will not have to resort to that. I have to give them a chance to make it right. My concern is that they will attempt to have the work done by a sub standard shop using sub standard parts. This is a Porsche, for the love of god, you either do it right or you don't do it.

A '99 that you like, that you got at a good price...that would now have a new motor......seems like it could be a stroke of luck. I would press for a repair rather than trying to reverse the deal. Reword your story.... I bought this car that really seems great. I got a good price. We knew there was a problem with the engine, but they arranged to put in a new motor before I ever drove away in the car. So, now I have the car I wanted, at a ggod price with a new motor (with a warranty!). I'm a genius.

If you came here looking for sympathy, well, you came to the wrong place. You knew better but ignored your common sense. You should have made your first post here BEFORE you bought the car. Lesson learned, hopefully. Best of luck in resolving this.

you lost me at Mazda....best of luck

So, Dealer takes in a car with a bad motor and sells it with bad motor and warranty, for all intents and purposes this is scamming the Insurance company. As long as you get your new motor and the warranty did not cost you anything than you did OK. As for the dealers ethics? well..what else is new?

If the car was right in every other way and the dealer will honor the warranty with a factory replacement motor instead of something pulled from a scrap yard then I'd say stick it out. What exactly does the warranty say as to who/where the warranty work is to be performed? If it's the dealer you bought the car from the try to get the deal undone. If it's a place that you and the warranty company agree on then try to move forward.

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Not looking for sympathy. I did ignore my common sense. I fell in lust with this car when I drove it. I was blinded. I feel like the worlds biggest idiot right now. I still think the dealer has fault in this, and they should be ashamed of selling me a defective car while lying to my face. Thank god I got a warranty from them. And thank god it seized in their parking lot, now two months from now. I didn't find out about this forum (and IMS, etc) until after I bought the car, unfortunately. I will let you all know how it turns out.

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Really sorry to hear of your troubles. My opinion is that if you can stay on top of them and make sure the engine they use is properly documented as either Porsche reman or new (i.e. not a used motor from a salvage yard), then stay with the car. If you can't get documentation, then you're 100% right in assuming that they're going to cheap out and cut every corner. They've already shown that their ethics are zeroed out. The caveat is that if you're not going to be able to get the bad taste out of your mouth regardless of the quality of the motor they use, then try and get out of the car. A Porsche is not a rational purchase, it's an emotional one; if you won't deeply love the car after all is said and done, then it's not the right car for you. Get your Miata back, and if your heart is still in it, then go after another 996. Best of luck to you, no matter what you end up doing!

Yes...a more strategic approach might....might....have been better. But you could have bought a perfectly running & maintained '99 -- and 200 miles later, have the same thing happen. Porsches are an emotional purchase. (clearly not logical....or we'd all be driving Japanese sewing machines....) My dad owned 356's from the time I was about 10 years old. I really liked how well they were built, how they sounded and handled, and how unique they were. Many years later I asked him how he got interested in them, expecting a list of logical reasons. Turns out, after WWII he took my mom on a trip to Europe where they rented a VW. Slogging slowly up the mountains with the other small cars and trucks, he could hear in the distance a high pitched whine. Then a Porsche blasted past them at high speed. After more 356's did the same, he decided, "I gotta get me one of these...." And he did. You can meet a future spouse almost anywhere.

If I do get a motor from Porsche and I can verify the work is done properly... will the new engine still be prone to IMS failure, or have they solved that? I ask because I have a lot of experience with a particular motorcycle manufacturer who builds a certain defect into each bike, and replaces bad parts with more bad parts. I've worked on hundreds of broken bikes with the same problem yet the manufacturer denies, denies. (fortunately the aftermarket has a solution). Is this how Porsche is as well?

Wow! What a story. Nothing less than a new motor would satisfy me at this point. Keep in mind that many of these warranty companies will try to locate a used motor with similar mileage as opposed to going new. Sorry for your troubles. I am dying to here the specs on the car (mileage/color/options/pics). One of the folks on this forum has seen the IMS bearing go bad at 1800 miles from a guy who only drove it on Satrudays to the golf course (and he lived on the golf course). Not using these cars seems to be the surest way to an IMS (and other) failures.

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Here is a preview. 73,000 miles, driven 6,500 miles per year by an old man in a dry desert climate. Always garaged. It's a black coupe. Unmolested. It has all the nice stuff - limited slip diff, 18" wheels, black interior with full leather, premium audio, and it's a six speed. It's best option is the imploding engine option.

Sorry to hear about your trouble. If you have signed the papers and taken possession of the 996, then it's unlikely that you have the option to get your Miata back. I'd concentrate on getting the 996 fixed properly. Once they take care of this as they are contractually obligated to do, then you should enjoy your 996.

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I will be installing another S&S gear drive 510 cam set tomorrow in a Road King.

Maniac: People post all kinds of stories on this forum. From the guys that buy a car and THEN arrange for a PPI to people that are buying their first Porsche and do their first post with, "is this a good car to buy, what should I look out for?" This is the first time that I remember someone posting that they bought a car they were thinking they shouldn't, and then after it blew up - "what should I do now." Read the warranty that they provided you carefully. Be sure that you have both legs to stand on. Then have them get you a replacement engine. In all likelihood they will try to put a used engine into your car. Remember that a used engine will likely have all of the potential issues that your imploding 996 had. Have your attorney in the background ready to pounce. Don't let grass grow under your feet. Get this dealt with NOW. They didn't want this car, they wanted it off their lot. They had no experience with Porsches and wanted to pawn it off on someone who was unsuspecting. If your warranty holds, you are LUCKY. Keep us posted, and learn from this for when you buy your next Porsche - because you WILL buy another Porsche. It's a disease. larry

This Nissan dealer will not pay to have a Porsche remanufactured engine in it. Get your Mazda back and walk (drive) away, then tell all your friends that the dealer is a crook.

Sad story. That is one of the reasons I am super picky with dealers. They will sell you whatever they can as they are trained to. In this case if the warranty covers then I will say get the new engine. If the car was 1 owner and clean car I will have them replace the engine and keep the car. Just make sure work is done right and of course the "new" engine has some warranty work, etc. Make sure its done right someone who knows about Porsches, not Nissan!!! Good luck and post some pics if you decide to keep her.

Most states have a 3day period were you can unwind your deal. Be quick

There is a three day rescission period when you are buying a house, or refinancing a house. I have never heard of that when buying a car!!! There would be a lot of people bringing cars back, especially to the unscrupulous dealers. Even though you have this warranty, you really don't want a non-porsche shop putting a porsche engine into this car and kissing you good-bye. You will want to read that warranty CLOSELY to see what your options are. I am willing to bet that you have few options. On top of which, the dealer isn't going to want to unwind this deal. They got rid of the lemon that they had. Why should they want to take it back? larry

I have been talking to them just now and it sounds like I have some advocates there, and I may be able to undo this whole deal. I just want it over with so I can sleep at night. One thing is for sure, I will never make this mistake again. Not saying I won't get a 996, if I do, I will do it right next time.

Glad to hear that the nightmare may be over. I'm not surprised that they might unwind the deal. They would never pay to install a Porsche reman. engine in that car. The cost of which is probably more than what you paid for it. They will most likely do the least they have to and get the Porsche running again and unload it on anther unsuspecting buyer and pray that the fix holds up longer than getting it out of their driveway. Like I said before, get your Mazda back (maybe they detailed it already for resale ) and drive away. It's not worth losing sleep over.

I would consult with a lawyer.

I think the dealer would come out ahead by putting you back in your car and selling the 996 as is. By the time the dealer puts a new or used enigine in the car they will be in the 996 way to deep.

^ With that logic, if you can get the Nissan dealer to put a new Porsche reman engine in it, then you are going to be way ahead?

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Hmmm, that's not necessarily "low" mileage. Sounds like a nice car.... well.. except for the exploding engine thing.

I'd try for a new engine and not getting the Miata back. Kansas has an implied 30 warranty when purchasing a car from a dealer. Once, a long time ago, I bought an used car, 1984 Chrysler LeBaron, and two days after I got it, a piston developed a hole in the top and the dealer, with prodding from the attorney, fixed it. I would get a lawyer. You already made one error, don't make anymore.

Update. The management at the dealer is actually being good about it. The car is at a Porsche shop right now - they took it there on a flatbed. I am pretty sure they will find big engine damage due to IMS bearing failure. I am in contact directly with that shop, and they will give me the straight truth about the car if I ask. I expressed to the dealer my concern that any repair is done in total accordance with Porsche standards. No cost cutting. I also asked for the option to have my Mazda back. They seemed receptive to that in case I am not happy with the status of the 911. I also mentioned that I didn't want to sue them but I would not hesitate to do so, if I am not treated fairly. And I do have a lawyer in mind who I am sure would win this case. If in fact the Porsche gets a new engine and everything is on the up and up, I may still take it. Other than the engine failure the car is immaculate and unmolested.

You keep saying that the car is immaculate and unmolested. HOW DO YOU KNOW? This is your first Porsche, you bought it without a PPI, and are very lucky that it blew up in the dealer's parking lot. As has been mentioned, this is not what is normally considered a low mileage car. But, it's not a high mileage example either. 6,500 miles a year is pretty typical for these cars. That being said, be SURE that while the dealer has the car, they do a PPI at YOUR expense. Now is the time to find out EVERYTHING that is wrong with the car. While it is at the Pcar dealer, you can then negotiate with the Nissan dealer for any other repairs that might be needed. Also be sure that you get at least 2 full remote control keys. Those suckers are $300+ each. Tell them that you want the valet key as well. Explain to the Porsche dealer that you are interested in keeping this car, especially with a new engine, but that you want to make sure that there aren't any other time bombs waiting for you. This is your one chance to make this purchase a reasonably good deal. The PPI should cost you maybe $200. Normally it would be more, but they don't need to inspect the engine!! So, it should be cheaper. This might end up being a good deal. Just don't get emotionally attached to this car, this deal, or the fact that you may end up with a new or reman engine. If you do get emotionally attached -- -- -- you have the potential of making a BIG mistake. You need to be very pragmatic about this car and the purchase. The fact that the car is a single owner doesn't necessarily mean that it was treated tenderly. Does the PO have all of the service records for you to examine? Maybe that isn't so important with a new engine, but . . . . . . . . . I wouldn't leave anything to chance. Also, with them sending the car to a Porsche dealer to take care of the issues, I don't know that I would threaten a lawsuit with them. Things seem to be above board. Hold that card in your lap. You can always play it later. I would deal with them positively as long as it's going well, and you are in communication with the Porsche dealer. larry

If they rebuild the engine, note the threads on the updated components to install while everything is apart.

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+1

Being pretty direct, BUT IMHO............GET THE MIATA BACK AND KEEP IT.......A REAL RELIABLE CAR......

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Who let a 993/997 guy in here to rant?

15 years with 1995 993 - 48,000 miles to date - no issues to date 6 years with 2003 C4S - 70,000 miles DD - $ 12,000 plus in warranty work, sold car when warranty expired - great looking and driving car when not in shop....lots of experience in speaking with service techs and Porsche US and Germany.... Conclusion: Qualified to speak about the 996......however blunt....all one big happy Porsche family here, even with our warts......

abiazis. What were the repairs that were done on your 2003? for $12K

I agree with abiazis assessment of the '03 C4s, "great looking and driving car when not in shop". I wish had the foresight to sell mine before the warranty expired. The following is the list of things of repairs that I consider beyond normal wear and tear on my '03 C4s; 3 RMS seals replaced under warranty (at: 4,300 mi, 11,850 and 16,250), front differential replaced at 42,502 miles (not warranty, cost $4k), cracked engine cylinder liner at 45,000 miles. Deciding what to do with it now.

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Sure, because the 993 has no issues of it's own. You Fail.....

Sounds like you want a 996. I had the miata and a S2000, now on my second 996. If there is no collision damage and you can get a new or rebuilt engine I would go for it. If they try and swap engine for a used one I would decline.

To Dennis Hiip's question....my 2003 C4S 996 repairs/parts under warranty before I unloaded the car, when the warranty expired. is listed below.... $ 12,000 was estimate dealer told me for parts and labor for the repairs under warranty - my rep had actually kept a running total since I was a "repeat" warranty customer, in addition to regular maintenance on my 2 Porsches at the time.... I knew all the mechanics by name at the dealer, the GM, salesman by name, etc....and all 4 service advisors since they saw me so much....monthly it seems.. Also this same Porsche dealer low-balled me on a potential trade-in on a new 2010 Turbo, so I went with Mercedes dealer on CPO Mercedes SL 65 AMG that offered me $ 12K more for the C4S car in June 2009 - $ 40,000......versus Porsche offer of $ 28,000 on a Porsche Turbo purchase.... (I also went to another Porsche dealer in Atlanta with no history with them and they offered the same $ 28K trade-in amount) The parts replaced list posted below - 70,000 miles on the car when traded..... (1 track event at Summit Point) - mostly highway driving on the car 3 O2 sensors - replaced 3 catalytic converters - replaced Oil filler pipe - cheap plastic replaced Oil separator tube - replaced 3 RMS seals - leaked 2 IMS seals - leaked 1 IMS flange - replaced 1 clutch assembly, throwout bearing went bad 2 horns - stopped working - water damage? Insulation material rear bumper - rattled Cracked ignition coils - heat? Left front headlight assembly - stopped working - gratis repair Water pump - failed C4S driver's side doorsill emblem insert - cheap plastic One cup holder assembly - cheap plastic broke Oil pressure gauge - faulty replaced Heck.....the dealer may have been low in their estimate now that I list it..... My 993 at 48K still has original brakes and no warranty work other than recall for wiring harness and convertible top latches..... 996

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Yikes!

To Ray S......relatively speaking my 993 versus my 996 repairs comparison....not anyone else's car......and Porsche ownership experience Acknowledge that 993 has its own issues, as any car does, but in my experience and IMHO not as severe as 996s.............cheers.......

abiazis, Thanks. That helps me with my anxiety since those repairs are fixable on my 2003 with the help of my mechanic friend. What worries me most is engine failure and I'm going to do the preventative parts replacements: IMS, AOS, and water pump to alleviate my insanity. That headlight assembly is >$2K

Conclusion to my story OK. So the General Manager of the dealer calls me this morning and tells me they are giving me my Miata back. Apparently the Porsche engine is completely toast and the shop they sent it to quoted $25,000 for everything. I think they freaked out at that price tag and decided to give me my car back, and call it a day! So, even though it's mostly my fault for buying a car with a noise, and not having it PPI'd (although it wouldn't even have made it across town), my first Porsche experience has not been the best! I will say that driving any other car will not the same now after experiencing the Porsche. I guess it's back to my slow, but 33 MPG and dead reliable Miata. Until I can afford a 997...

997.1s also have the same M96/97 engine design. It wasn't until '09 that the 997.2s came out with a new engine design.

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Good to know. I am scared to death of the 996 now, even if my situation was rare. It might be a while until I can swing a 997.2.

I think their "online reputation" is rather limited, or they'd be worth less... They're special cars. If you're concerned about running costs and the Miata is enough car, I'd just stick w/that.

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Yet you try to apply that experience and assume it transfers directly to all 996's. Newsflash, it doesn't. I've got two Porsche's with the M96 motor and both have performed flawlessly for me. In fact, the only unusual repair (beyond, oil pads, clutch, etc) I have had on either car was a wheel bearing on the 986 and a windshield (stone crack) on the 996. I'll gladly compare my maintenance bills for my 996 against those of any 993 owner and I doubt many could come in with a lower cost per mile.

Glad that it worked out for you.

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English or Italian?

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You are comparing a 70K mile car with a 48K mile?

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I think it's worth mentioning that some parts on his list are directly shared with those on the 993... But hey, whatever makes one happy.

chsu 74...... Is 70k (68) 996 versus 50K(49) 993 that significant? 3 oil changes.......and less than a set of tires changed......for cars that were both driven weekly for the last 7 years by the same driver..... I should know which one of my cars was a better reliable driver.......whether they shared some of the same parts (minor) or not...........to Ahmets comment...... I am glad the OP got his Miata back and can wait for a 997.2........without taking extra precautions, i.e. replacing the IMS bearing or ticking time bomb..... Splitting hairs really....the inconvenience of stopping by the dealer for warranty work gets a little old other than having a demo from them to test while car is in the shop.........my experience with my other Porsche 993 was regular maintenance and that is it.....much more manageable.....

Abiazis, I really don't have a problem with your preference. In fact, I wouldn't mind if more people felt the way you do and I could pick up another 996 cheaper. I may have a different perspective regarding reliability or "toughness" of different platforms since I've worked on them, but we all have reasons for our thoughts. Variety is the spice of life, as they say.

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I would say no to 0-20K miles or even 30 to 50K miles on the OD. Consumables start to kick in going past 60K street miles in my experience. I have never made it past 65K miles with original brakes on German cars but I am on my original clutch at 120K miles with the BMW bought new. People here replace clutches around 60K miles or fewer.

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No offense, man, but the problem isn't the 996, it's the way you went about acquiring the car. Glad it worked out for you. Oh, and you have great taste in cars.

Maniac - you need to take the comments "in total" from the members of this board. They are all given with the intent in helping you. But you need to help yourself as well. There is NO car out there that has the panache, the fun, the shear driver enjoyment of owning a Porsche. When you buy a 996 or 997, you are buying the results of over 50 years of development of a racing car that was toned down for the street. You aren't wrong. Ah, yes, you have been bitten. But you can't reasonably extend your experience to the entire Porsche generation of cars. In any manufacturer, there are models that have problems, models that need more maintenance, models that require next to no maintenance, and cars that have been brutalized by their prior owners. With a car like the Porsche, you need to be more critical when you go through the selection process. Any repairs to these cars cost more than the comparable repair on other cars. Repairs to a Porsche do NOT equate to repairs to a Miata, Toyota, Nissan, etc etc. That is why you need a skilled shop to do the PPI, to examine the car closely, before you buy one. I have owned three Porsches. I have had PPI's done on 7 Porsches. Hmmmm. I let an expert go thoroughly over the car, and listened to them, and was willing to walk away. Yes there are 996's that have problems with the IMS. Is it most of them, No. Is it enough that you can choose to not buy one? Sure, if that's your choice. Is it enough that maybe you want to buy one and do the LN Upgrade? Sure, if that's your choice. But you have choices. From what I've read, somewhere between 5% and 10% of the M96 engines have IMS issues. That is enough to want to be careful, but I wouldn't use that to explain why you SHOULDN"T buy a 996. That might be a reason why they're less expensive. In any case, when you're ready, come on back. Spend a few weeks reading the posts of all kinds before you start looking for a car. Then spend a week devouring the AutoTrader and Cars.com websites, and reading ads in Excellence-mag.com and on this forum and 6speedonline.com. Then decide what features, what colors, what ??? you want in the car, and ask this forum questions. I hope that it won't take you too long to come back. We'll be ready to help you. larry

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Thank you Larry for all your comments. I am an admin on a popular motorcycle board, so I know how these types of threads can go. I know that I'm perceived as the noob who doesn't know what he's doing, and that's pretty much right - I am a noob to Porsche's. I also know that off topic chatter is unavoidable and also that people's sarcasm and attitudes don't always come across correctly over the net. Overall everyone here seems very passionate about these cars, and very knowledgeable. These forums (for X car or Y bike or whatever) are a huge resource and you have to be willing to put up with some ribbing now and then, I'm OK with that. Overall the fact that people are willing to share their extensive knowledge gained from experience is amazing, and helps people to no end! Sometimes these communities make owning certain vehicles a lot more palatable. I made a big mistake, an emotional decision without proper research, and it bit me in the ***. I knew better, yet f*cked up and bought it anyway. At the same time, I was extraordinarily lucky that the car seized up in the dealers parking lot, and not 3 months after delivery. And until after I bought the car and came on this board, I never knew about IMS, the death rattle, the importance of PPI, the cost of repairs on this car, etc, etc. I am in love with how these cars drive and if I could own one with more peace of mind, I might consider it. It does scare me that a huge failure like the IMS can come with basically no warning, and seems to affect a large percentage of cars, like 5% (that's what I've read at least). As has been said in other threads, even a good PPI is really no defense against something like IMS failure. It is still the right thing for most of us, however. I've bought and sold over 17 motorcycles, and I do my own PPI (but it's much easier on a bike). So I should have known better. I will take your advice, do my research, be patient, and maybe end up with a car if it's the right deal. If I do, I will be here asking about preventative measures to prevent what happened to my 996 (RIP). Thanks for all your help everyone!

+1

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Awfully glad to hear that all's well that ends well. But I would echo the guys that say don't let this experience scare you off of a 996. Find a good one with good history, then PPI it, then buy it and put the LNE IMS bearing on it, then go drive the everlovin' whee out of it. Think about this: whenever you do get to buying a 911, I can just about promise you that you're going to say, "Jeezus, why didn't I do this sooner?!?" So skip the middleman and do it sooner.

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What he said.

Does that conclude this infomercial? Is it safe to turn off the TV and assume that Maniac28 will now ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again as others who have come here before him?

Hi folks..., Have you ever tried a Miata...for me this is absolutely not a sport car at all and can't be compared to a 996 Porsche. As an owner of Porsche car for more then 22 years now if Maniac28 prefered a Miata insted of a 996 why should i take time to answered this tread.... Let him go that's it Bye Bye Robert

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Robert, there's an old saying that goes something like this: "Opinions are like ********. Everyone has one and they all stink." I've driven Miatas fairly extensively, and I think they're a fantastic car for what Mazda intended them to be. They're light, spry and a ton of fun - and for the money, they're tough to beat. In fact, I'd argue that Mazda did with the Miata (and similarly, Toyota with the MR2) what the British strove to do for years: produce a lightweight, economical sports car that's a gas to drive. You're right - there's no point in comparing a Miata to a 996, and more than I'd want to compare a 996 to a V12 Ferrari, for instance. They're at entirely different price points, they target a different demographic and there are different expectations from each. But arguing about whether it's a "sports car" is a bit like arguing about whether the Corvette is a "true" sports car, or whether the Nissan 240 is a "true" sports car, or whatever else. It's pointless since the "sports car" term is entirely subjective. If you want to get all religious and claim that the 996 (or some other car) is the "embodiment of what a 'true' sports car is", go right ahead ... just be ready for the collective eye-roll. Miata owners, by and large, love their cars. As do Corvette owners, as do 996 owners, as I suspect V12 Ferrari owners do as well. They're free to call them "sports cars" just as the rest of us are with our 996, and I'm fairly certain there's enough road for all of us to enjoy with them. Cheers, -- Mike

I appreciate Maniac28's sharing with us. I think I might have been too embarrassed had I made his choice.. So, I respect his willingness to tell us about it. Is there anything rational and logical about buying one of these cars? Don't we all have our internal dialog that drives our decisions. Geez, his decision was emotionally motivated like everything about these cars. That's part of the fun isn't it? I thought I did all my homework prior to purchase. I think I did good, but as I continue to learn, I continue to question. I don't feel totally secure, but that's the adventure in my mind.

I think it's awesome that he shared his story with us and excellent that so many people here tried to help and/or sympathize with his plight. IMHO Miata bashing is not necessary nor helpful. I suspect that the OP will return. He's been bit.

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Good post, Mike.

I have a Porsche and a Miata. I compare them all the time. A Porsche is a Miata on steroids !

I'm not afraid to admit when I screw up. I learned humility a long time ago. You guys have taught me a lot, and I've learned a lot about these cars on this website. This is a great resource. I never tried to compare the 996 to the Miata, I don't know how that has anything to do with all this. They are different cars as we all know. And to be honest I don't call the Miata a sports car, either. is it fun? yes. is it passionate and emotional like a porsche? not really. IMHO. My friends tell me to not buy a Porsche, that it will break and I am not rich enough for the repairs, blah blah blah. Maybe they are right, but they haven't driven the 911! they can drive their slushboxes and poseur sports cars... I want a Porsche! I am young but not getting younger, life is short, then you die. I might as well die broke. life's too short for boring cars! I am in the market for a 911 and I will have some more questions for you guys. thanks for the help.

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The Miata is closer to the true definition of a sports car than most cars out there. It's certainly more of a traditional sports car than a 996.

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+1

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I was responding to the comment made by Robert (porsches996); that's what started the Miata vs 996 bit. I thought Robert's comment (about the Miata not being a true sports car) was absurd and slapped him with a trout for it sufficiently. The Miata is a fine car and there's nothing to be ashamed of with it. In fact, I'm fairly certain that Miata owners forums don't have conversations about failing IMS bearings and grenading engines. Not that this makes the 996 less of a sports car, but still. You'll find your Porsche yet. Took me two years to find the right one, and it was well worth the wait. I still sport a ****-eating grin every time I look at it. Cheers, -- Mike

Maybe for you folks the definition of a sport car is not the same as mine..... For me a sport car need a big engine with certainly more then 160hp or so... Maybe i'm wrong and ready to admit it but i tried the Miata car maybe 2 or 3 times and for me this is definitly not what i expect of a sport car. The suspension, direction and engine are not what i can call a sport car Anyway folks if for you a Miata is a sport car well...good and sorry if i hurt anybody Thanks Robert

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There is a better sports car version of a Miata, it's called a Boxster. Sorry man, 911 is more GT than sports car these days. While I am a "Power junkie" for sure the Miata is a great car to flog around!

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What about all of the small British sports cars? Surely an MG T series and a Sunbeam Alpine would be considered sports cars (and iconic ones at that), as would the original Volkswagen GTI, the Toyota MR2, and a whole slew of little European go-karts that (sadly) never arrived on American shores ... Fair enough. I looked very seriously at a Shelby GT500, but it just didn't work for me; the 996 was a better fit. The GT500 is a good sports car, but it wasn't for this buyer. What do you mean by "direction"? Most of the Miatas I have seen drive in the same direction as a Porsche. Cheers, -- Mike

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Manic could you either post or PM me the name of the dealership. I'd like to pursue buying the car before they send it to auction.....

I used to do some really entertaining rallyes in a 97 miata. What fun that car was! It was like a gokart. I thought it was a sportscar. I consider my 996 a sports car too . I have driven a boxster (btw iPhone autocorrect tries to change the spelling of boxster into bizarre) and it's a really fun sportscar. It did make the Miata feel paler in comparison ... But I consider both sports cars

Glad to hear of a reasonable outcome. The IMS issue has been overstated considerably by the few who have been victims of it. Supposedly the MY06 and later 997.1 cars are showing considerably less propensity for such problems. One area that appears to be common on such problems is not driving the car enough.

if I could do it over again I'd get a 6gt3, but I suppose I can put a 6gt3 motor in my car when it decides to blow

Driving the car enough or not enough has no influence on IMS issue.....bad design does.......5 year old cars can have the issue with 9,000 miles or 100,000 miles......it is hit or miss as there are lots of moving parts involved and other variables, that is the problem in itself.....no real warning...... It is very smart of Porsche, PR wise, to bury the issue and move on.... not issue any informal or formal estimates on percentage of cars affected, etc........ I have had some high volume dealers tell me they see very few IMS issues and others that estimate as much as 1 in 5 cars..... Luckily...... there is a remedy, LNE bearing upgrade, and the new 997.2 engine design....which may have other issues..........which we can all write about and share with each other in the future......thank goodness that the OP got out of his potential deal more educated about 911s and got his car back....

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+1 Any word JR? I am interested as well if you pass on it.

Good to see things worked out w/ the dealership.