question: choice between a 996 C4S or 997?

I realize this is the 996 forum, but I have been contemplating picking up a 911-variant next spring and am torn between a 996 C4S and a 997. Looking at coupes only. My budget will be approx $40k and I would be buying this car as my daily driver. I currently own a 1968 912 and have owned 2 928's and do all the wrenching on my cars. I know the 'buy the best car you can afford' mantra, but am torn between the two. A buddy of mine had a 2003 C4S and I loved it. The wide hips and agressive turbo look is why I would choose that over a regular Carrera and really wouldn't want a regular narrow-bodied 996 version. I would be looking at las ow miles as possible as I drive 10k to 15k per year. Now for the same price, I would be able to get into a 2005 or so 997 which of course is an entirely new model with stiffer this and more efficient that, etc. My big question is what would be the pro's and con's of getting each one? Would it be a no-brainer to get one vs. the other? Any major problems on the 997 to consider vs. the 996's? I just don't know enough about either model YET, as I do with the 912's and 928's. thanks in advance!

Be ready for people to tell you to buy a Turbo or a GT3 [ ZOMG! ]; lots of that going 'round these days. Drive both? - 997 could be CPO'd; 996 cannot - Both have the M96 (I think) All I have quickly off the top of my head. I love my C4S, but have not driven a 997

Can't speak to the 997's but I love my C4S, especially the wide hips. It went through a Cdn winter with snows on it and I have had 0 issues. I'm thinking of upgrading to a 996TT next year when the C4S comes off warranty. The power is intoxicating.

I wouldnt get a 997 carrera.... get the 997 S instead. If not opt for the 996 C4S.

I think I would drive both, as Whitey suggested. The 997 has a much more refined interior, and it will have a little more horsepower. Depending on the options, it will probably have a softer ride than the 996 C4S. I prefer the look of the wide body cars myself, but you're the one buying it. Have fun with the selection process. Oh, and... what about a 996 turbo?

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+1 on passing up the base 997 if possible. The S is a much better choice, IMO. However, you are probably not going to find many low mileage 997S below $40K. You might see a number with 30K+ miles though. Personally I would not get a 996 (C2, C4S, etc) for the same money as a 997 (S or otherwise). The 996 is a great car, but it is getting old, and the interior is pretty dated. If you are planning on keeping the car a while, you should seriously consider a 997 as a daily driver if you find one within your budget. Are you in an area where 4WD makes a difference? I am not keen on extra weight and extra driven wheels. I haven't been in the market lately, but I would guess that it will be just as hard to find a low mileage 996 C4S as a low mileage 997 at/under $40,000. -td

thanks guys - I have driven the C4S but not yet the 997, but of course will do. Definitely like the wide-bodied cars. Stoopid question, but I can't seem to find the rear width of a C4S vs a 997 to compare? I guess I'm an ***-man Slight increase in HP isn't that important (wouldn't turn it down of course!). And Red, why not the standard Carrera? Oh, and thanks for the Turbo suggestion Dennis

I am in Houston so no, don't need the 4WD at all. Plan to keep the car for a while actually - warranty would be nice as well and that means 997. There are a few low-mile C4S's out there on Autotrader, but I'm picky about colour so it might be a challenge or at least a wait to get the right combination (same applies for the 997). Not sure if the 997S fits in the budget from what i've seen either... oh, and as an edit, 30k miles is still a fairly low mileage in my mind, at least for a 996...

If you can find a nice, well optioned, moderate mile, CPOed 997 for <$40k? That's pretty good. But $40k buys the top 10% of 996 C4Ss out there.

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FWIW, you can get a decent aftermarket warranty for any low mileage car (including a Porsche) for $2,000-$3,000. Some have a bad opinion of these types of warranties, but I have only good things to say about them. Just as good as a CPO in my opinion. This is from my old research, which may or may not be perfect: 996 widths: C2 69.7" / C4S 72" 997 widths: C2 71.2" / C4S 72.9" -td

I love my car but I would would go 997 just based on the interior upgrade alone.

don't think you can get into a 997 for $40K not a 996 Turbo or GT3 either

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2004 GT3, sold at 42K http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...item4a9bdd5032 -td

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What aftermarket warranty did you buy?

Try asking the same question on the 997 forum. In the meantime, I would say that the differences between the 996 Mk II and 997 Mk I are not huge. Especially from the viewpoint of the layman.

My dad got an 18k mile cream puff speed yellow 05 997 C2S for $40k...they are out there and I would definitely, DEFINITELY take one over a 996 C4S. Only 996 I would consider for $40k is the TT. Maybe a GT3 if you could fine one that wasn't totally beat.

Ok, I would love to own an aero 996 again or a 996 C4S but I would take a base 997 over both any day! The interior of the 997 is so much nicer and the hips are really wide for a narrow-body.

Am I the only one who likes our "dated" classic Porsche interiors better than the overly modern 997 interiors? Our interiors are rounded, darker, and more like the older Porsches compared to the fake aluminum and angled dashes of the 997.

I say take the GT3!!! Oh wait, was that even an option? Lol!!! Honestly, you can't go wrong with either; it's deep inside you which one YOU'LL be happiest with.

[QUOTE=smackboy1;7047858]Try asking the same question on the 997 forum. In the meantime, I would say that the differences between the 996 Mk II and 997 Mk I are not huge. Especially from the viewpoint of the layman. QUOTE] already planned to ask there too! thanks for the Top Gear link

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I think you might be! Not sure I consider the 996 interior classic, 993 and older.. that classic! Thats said, If I was buying right now I think my choices would be in this order. 6GT3 , 996 Turbo, 997S, 996C4S

I don't mind my interior--the leather helps. The seats, on the other hand, are really pretty bad. Porsche's last quality seat was the <'95 sport seat, and even that wasn't as good as the mid-'80s sport seats. I've heard the 997 seats are much improved, and I'm surprised this board is so silent on the topic of adapting the newer seats to 996s.

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Like Marc said. I think you are the only one who prefers the 996interior over the 997's. The 996 interior is just to darth vaderish for me. Especially in the darker colors. And no offense to anyone who has it but the Savanna Beige makes me a little sick.

Narrow Body * 996 - width 69.70" * 997 - width 71.18" Wide Body * 996 - width 72.00" * 997 - width 72.91"

Touque, I have driven both 996 and 997 "at speed". I've been doing driving schools for 15 years and I can't tell the darn difference. But I CAN tell you that my 987 Boxster S outhandles them both. I just bought a 2004 C4S CPO'ed with the 345 hp power kit. Comparing that to a 997 "regular" Carrera with 325 hp, then difference is actually pronounced. My choice for the $40k-ish price point was the 996 C4S, the 2005 997 and the 996 40th Anniversary which has the 345hp power kit as "stock". C4S Pros and Cons: Pro - sexiest body style. The red strip that goes alone the entire rear of the car accentuates the wider rear end - even though it's only like 1.5 inches wider or something like that... Con - slowest out of the three (if you care about the small difference) Con - can't be a "hooligan" as easily since you can't break the tires loose that easily Pro - "old interior" - this wasn't a con for me as it would for most since I have the 987 Boxster S already. If I bought the 997, it would feel like I had the same exact car interior-wise. Pro - it's an "S" and I know I go the top of the line of a line (sans turbo). Pro - sexiest body style - did I say that already? 997 Pros and Cons: Pro - nicest headlights that look like "Snoopy" as my wife says Pro - RWD makes it a bit more fun to toss around Pro - latest electronic gadgets Con - interior is same as my Boxster S Con - it's not an "S" and I would forever feel like I want "more" 996 40th Anniversary Pros and Cons: Pro - half sexy body style. It has the same front as the C4S, but not the wide rear stance. Con - faster out of the three (if you care about the small difference) with 345 hp Pro - "old interior" - this wasn't a con for me as it would for most since I have the 987 Boxster S already. If I bought the 997, it would feel like I had the same exact car interior-wise. Pro - they only made 1963 of them Con - I can't stand those chrome wheels!!! Pro - RWD makes it a bit more fun to toss around So for me, it really came down to the 40th or the C4S. When I found a C4S with the power kit, then that sealed the decision... Hope it helps...

Edgy and Mabuhay - thanks! Definitely helps... I don't want to get something and 'wish' I had bought another, in the feeling like I wanted more. The S I guess is sounding like it's more and more important, so maybe the C4S will fit the bill better $$-wise.

I may sell my 996 Turbo. 45k takes it. I just installed new Recaro seats though. I'd have to put the stockers back in. Doh!

For the money, I suspect you'll get more car with the 996. Many more choices. With the 997s, you will have to settle with a stripped, and higher mileage car.

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Keep in mind that the 996 C4S isn't "more" in many places except weight and width. The "S" only gets you something when you are talking 997s. Also, I would guess that the 997 (base) and the 996 C4S with X51 be equal in terms of speed, but the C4S with X51 would be more expensive than the base 997 (I think X51 option was around $10,000). And good luck finding a C4S with an X51 kit on it, as they are few and far between. -td

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Not true. I believe the 996 C4S gives you more than 997 basic Carrera: 1) Same body style and width as 996 Turbo 2) Same suspension as 996 Turbo 3) Same bigger red brakes as 996 Turbo (997 comes with "less robust 4 piston black calipers and smaller rotor diameter per brochure than "S" version) 4) Same radiator / cooling system as 996 Turbo 5) AWD vs RWD 6) Essentially a 996 turbo without the turbo If that isn't "more", then I don't know what is. The fact that I have the X51 is a bigger bonus. Otherwise, the C4S comes with 320hp/273tq vs. 325hp/273tq for the basic 997. X51 option was... yikes! $14k...

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We're splitting hairs, but there wasn't a MKII C4, so C4S is 'more' than the C4.

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I suppose my point was too subtle. The C4S [also called the "turbo look" or "un-turbo"] clearly has upgrades over the 996 C2/C4, but the "S" has nothing to do with the engine. Many misapplly the "S" (more power for a 997) to the 996, which is NOT the case. And, looks (body kit, wide body, etc) are personal taste anyway. On the numbers, PERFORMANCE of the 996 C4S is not on par with the 997 - and clearly not comparable to the 997S by ANY stretch of the imagination. You can dress a pig in a tuxedo... "Essentially a Turbo without the Turbo" isn't necessarily a great thing. Put another way, you could say the C4S has all the weight gain of a 996 Turbo without any increase in power. IIRC, the only thing the C4 and C4S share is the drive train. The C4 was not a widebody car. In fact, the C4 more closerly resembles the C2, other than AWD. The C4S has the Turbo stuff noted above, including the wide back side, but all versions have the exact same engine. -td

We're arriving at the same place, just saying it differently except that you're mighty full of yourself now that you have a GT3.

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Sorry, but the word "pig" as it applies to Porsches is reserved for the folks over on the Cayenne forum...

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I'm not sure if that is in jest or a jab I'm simply trying to give some counter perspective on the C4S, since many have been all thumbs up for it. I wouldn't say those folks are "full of themselves" since they tout how great the C4S (despite the fact they may own one). Besides, I was full of myself before I got the GT3. The only difference is my lap times -td [Kumain ka na?]

Well, there has to be something about the 996 C4S that attracts people. I don't know about the other owners, but the C4S was the only 996 I considered (other than the turbo, and when I determined that the C4S had adequate power, it was an easy decision). FWIW, there were quite a few reviews way back in 2001-02 when it was first introduced that do a good job of summarizing the "special-ness". Among other things, the big deal being that it had the upgraded chassis with ~200 lb less weight than the turbo, yet still maintained much of the handling feel of the lighter 2WD cars. The C4S was also faster around the 'ring than any normal 996. Certainly Porsche has moved on, and once you're out of the air-cooled cars, newer is almost always better. But the 996 C4S stands out as one of the good ones, as a whole that somehow strikes a special balance, and is very appealing for it.

The "Pros" for the 996 C4S: 1. The wide rear body( Big 11 inch rims)2. The "Turbo" front bumper, 3. The "Big Red" Brakes. 4. The upgraded interior with supple leather interior 5. The rear side panel grid vents. 6. Some have the dual exhaust tips. The only base 997 with wide body is the 997S model. Pros of the 997S 1. More horsepower, 2. 997 engine with improved RMS, 3. Seems that the 997S made in 2005 is more reliable that some later models (Consumer Reports)4. If Chrono Package, you get adjustable ride stiffness. 4. Updated interior ( if that is important, I like the think more modern is not necessarily better in a Porsche ie 993s) Cons of 997S 1. No turbo bumper, no rear side panel vents. Won't get a 997S for 40K with under 50K miles. The 997 base- No forseeable improvements except, more horsepower, but basic interior, and basic exterior (No wide body, Turbo Bumpers, Bid Red Brakes,. I have a 2004 C4S CAB Tip and just love it. all the options available except X51. Great Cruiser and fast when I need it.

The 997S is not a widebody at all. FYI The widebody 997s for street are: 997 C4 997 C4S 997 Turbo 997 GT3RS 997 GT2 The 996 C4 was a narrowbody built thru 2001, 02 forward in the US are all C4S 996 C4 chassis is somewhat different than the C2 chassis, heavier yes but stiffer as well USA 996 GT3 is also on the stiffer C4 tub, but is a narrowbody The C4S does not share the M64 derived M96-70 engine of the turbo, same as C2 996 C2 cars do fit 11 inch wheels

On the Mature Topic of Magazine Racing: While Porsche did claim an 8:12s 'ring time for the 996C4S, however I have never seen a published Nurburgring time for the 6C4S faster than a C2, not that anyone here should even remotely care. After all if you're buying a car based on a few seconds difference in its Nurburgring time, call me I'd like some of those crazy pills you've been taking. Unless you buy the turbo, because that's not as crazy as it sounds. Horst von Saurma in a 996 C4 (3.4L) did it in 8:23 Horst von Saurma in a 996 C2 (3.4L) did it in 8:17 Horst von Saurma in a 996 C2 (3.6L) did it in 8:17 as well Walter R�hrl in a 996 C2 (3.6L) did it in 8:14 just for giggles, Horst did it in 8:24 in a 1997 993 C2 CAB Horst von Saurma in the 996 turbo, did it in 7:56 Horst von Saurma in the 997 turbo, 7:54 (I've seen a lot of unverified numbers in the 30s and 40s as well, consensus is 7:40 is plausible) Horst von Saurma in the 996 GT2, 7:46 Walter R�hrl in the 996 GT3, 7:56 And the 997 Walter R�hrl in the Mk1 997 Carrera 2 S 3.8L, 7:59 (PASM) Horst von Saurma in Mk1 7C2S 3.8L, 8:05 Horst von Saurma in PDK/PASM/DFI/PCCB/SportChrono+ Mk2 997C2S, 7:50 Walter R�hrl in the Mk1 997 C2 3.6, 8:15 Now the boxster, incidentally, had some major generational performance improvements, and a modern 987S is reportedly as fast as a Mk1 996 C4 around the ring and many other courses. Fifth gear did a nice comparo, of course it's an RS60 and a mk1 3.4L c2, but hey 10 years isn't that long right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woq6F...layer_embedded 987 times all driven by Horst Fahrzeug sport auto Ausgabe 0-200-0 km/h Rundenzeit Nordschleife Durchschnitts- Geschwindigkeit Nordschleife Aerodynamische Balance vorn/hinten Porsche Boxster (986) April 97 38,4 s 8:54 min 138,9 km/h -/-36 kg Porsche Boxster S (986) Dezember 99 28,8 s 8:32 min 144,8 km/h -/-24 kg Porsche Boxster (986) M�rz 03 31,7 s 8:36 min 143,7 km/h -28/-36 kg Porsche Boxster S (987) April 06 25,5 s 8:23 min 147,4 km/h -25/-20 kg Porsche Cayman S November 06 24,7 s 8:25 min 146,9 km/h -30/-19 kg In real life, 90% of us and 100% of 1st time 911 drivers would be faster in the C4S or turbo or 997 PASM cars, not to even mention tip or pdk. None of us will get anywhere near these times even if we can spend a lot of time on the ring, and i'm not talking about traffic. These two guys basically drive 911s around the nurburgring for a living, and have been doing it for as long as they can remember. I personally think the 996 C4S made more sense and provided more value when turbos commanded a huge premium over them, such as when they were new, now I just don't know. The turbo is a lot more car in so many ways, and the incremental cost, at least in terms of acquisition, is kinda nominal these days. Prices will continue to drop, it's been pretty mild so far coming into winter but check these prices again in february. However the OP said C4S or 997, and I think if you plan on keeping the car for the rest of your life, get the one you want, because they are both so good it doesn't matter. Me, I'd get the 997 C4 or C4S, maybe next one a Cab, with asking prices so low (here's a black 997 C2 CPO cab near me, I'm sure they'd take 40) http://tinyurl.com/ychhpok

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Don't take this the wrong way, but as an instructor, why would you prefer a C4 over a regular C2? The 2 gives you greater latitude in breaking the car loose and learning to drive it at the limits of your ability. Consequently, allowing further skill development in car control.

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Whenever I read things like this, I wonder. Does anyone have any trouble breaking an AWD Porsche loose? Greater latitude??? If you happen to feel that your C4 or C4S is just un-unstickable, a quick trip to the alignment shop can easily cure that rare problem.

Went through the same question 18 months ago and picked the 996 C4S. The 997 is a regular 911 of its time while the 4S is beautiful and will be a best value (price remains the same for my car since I bought it : $41.000 and in 5 to 10 years people will offer 45 to 50 to get one). Look at what happened to the 993 4S : up to twice the value of a regular 993. I don't know if the new carrera S will have the same success : even if it's better it doesn't look so different than the 997 carrera. so I would get a TT, or a 4S.

as I just put on the 996 board, having a higher-mileage (like 50k) 997S might be an option if it has CPO, so then comparing to the C4S might be a difference than with a base 997. Keep the opinions coming - this is great

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Keep telling yourself that. It's still a 996. If you're so concerned about buying a Carrera for $40,000 or less, then the significantly higher maintenance costs of maintaining a 9964S over a 997S should be factored in.

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What significantly higher maintenance costs are you talking about Dan? The 996 and 997 have very similar maintenance schedules with almost the exact same cost for the services and parts.

If you think you will want to track the car, I would go with the 997 C2. It's easier to set the car up to be more neutral than the C4, and it will allow you to develop greater car control skills. Also, I believe the PSM in the 997 is less intrusive than the 996 PSM. If on the other hand, you like the looks and/or features that you get in the 996 C4S, go for it. Whatever makes you happiest. Either way, you will be getting a great car. As far as 997 vs 997S, I've owned both. The latter is more car, and better for driving in traffic due to it's better low-end torque. But the non-S car is very enjoyable to drive.

...does this mean that the days of 993 v. 996 threads are officially... over?

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He's comparing a 996 C4S to a 997. It's the simple 4WD vice 2WD business. More moving parts in the 996 C4S than in the 997. My front differential will never fail on my 997S because I don't have one. Maintenance intervals have also been increased on the 997 cars over that for the 996s.

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I don't understand this logic. My diff hasn't failed and I've tracked the car extensively and have fairly high miles on it. He shouldn't get any car because if he does, it'll have an engine and that has more moving parts and therefore more prone to failure.

I do a tremendous amount of work with Porsche and as such I've had the opportunity to visit ALL the Porsche Centres in Canada and speak with many techs; the reliability and running costs between a 996 and a 997.1 are much the same. Yes, the service intervals have been changed from year to year (even within the 996 production years), but not significantly enough to justify your statement. The overwhelming majority of front diffs will last the life of the vehicle. Failure rate on front diffs is incredibly low and usually due to abuse or improper mods being applied to the car (wrong size wheels/tires, offset, etc...).

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+1, I don't get it. You'll probably have more expense with a 997 at the lower bar than a pristine 996 with low mileage.

Arf. Go get a 912. No A/C, no AD, no AB, no 4WD, no EFI, no ABS... So much no stuff that it will never fail, then

On the other hand I have broken a c2 transmission shaft in the past. While you can't do that on a c4 because the tork is repartitioned on four wheels and makes is softer for the car. I don't believe there is ANY difference in the maintenance cost of the two cars except maybe a quart of transmission oil and few more bolts to check ever few years...

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I think the only relevance to this conversation is when a 996/7 C2 driver starts whining about 2WD purity. Then it's an easy retort that if you don't drive a real 911, who cares which wheels are driven?

hey guys, i have been reading a lot of things over the past few weeks on the forums and all the things you have been talking about. i have a question for all of you since you seem to know your stuff! i have a few days to decide whether to pull the trigger on a 996 CS4 (cab) from a good family friend. The car has 10k miles on it as they never used it and are asking 35k - just wondering if you think i could get something better for my money or is this a really good deal and about as good as i can do for that price... thanks all

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35k will buy you a 997 now in 2015, and is a smarter buy than a 996. I own a 996 but frankly wouldn't spend 35k if I had it on a non gt 996. Super low miles isn't really a good thing on a 996, and isn't a smart investment if you ask me. And it is a cab which isn't as desirable. Spend that 35k on a nice 997.1

If you plan to keep it a short while and are not a very hardcore performance oriented driver, I'd rather get the c4s cab. Those were only made 1-2 years and are rare, especially at that low of miles. The cab is also a bit heavier and won't be the fastest. As for resale, it should maintain its level a lot better than the alternative. $35k is avg for a c4s vert but can be considered a good deal due to mileage and long term resale. Otoh, if you're more into performance or updated look, I'd concentrate my efforts on a 997 Carrera "S" model with the more powerful 3.8L motor in that price range. However the 997 will be a dime a dozen on the used market soon as those owners will upgrade to the 991 's or 997.2. My $.02

thank you guys...this car is my first porsche and basically will be a summer car for fun... i prefer the look of the 996 to the 997...its a 2004 and w the low miles just feels brand new. but i hear your points. for some reason KBB has it at 47k, but i guess that might just be my location?

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That 47k is because kbb is heavily based on the mileage of a car. I miss read your post I thought it was a c4 vert not c4s but all 2002 and up were c4s not c4's so I should of caught that oh well post pics if you do buy it

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Boom. Did it!

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Nice, post a new thread with more pictures and details!

Sweet. Congrats! In before the pumpkin comment...

Congrats! Nice looking C4S!

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Have to ask why you say low mileage isn't a good thing? I just bought a 2005 996 Cab beauty with low mileage and it purrs!! Had it checked before purchase and it is solid, I am very happy!

Congratulations! I was between a coupe and cab for my C4S and chose a coupe coupe based on my needs. When I have space for another car, it will be a cabriolet.

Good buy ! Congrats love C4S cab. Mine is a coupe but I lusted for the cab too.

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Cars that were rarely driven have been known to suffer from more ims failures than cars that were driven more often and harder. Usually,

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Fixed it for ya, pending the statistics to substantiate this claim.

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No statistics, but my statement has some merit from my experience on this forum.

As the owner of a 04 c4s cabriolet, I absolutely love it....I didnt read all of the posts, but hopefully you paid 200 bucks or so and had a porsche pre inspection done.....worth every penny......Hopefully you bought one that already had the IMS bearing upgraded....if not, It is HIGHLY recommended....about a $2,000 job and if you don't you are playing russian roulette and one day your engine might blow and then 10K plus to replace..... Have owned mine for 2 years...off auto trader....paid 30K put in 3K for IMS RMS, New clutch (bc engine was dropped for ImS) and water pump and few other lil odds and ends....have owned it for 2.5 years and have put 15K on it (work from home) but it is a joy....the S over the regular 4 is HUGE.....I drove a 4 and was underwhelmed.... Enjoy..

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Please explain this "underwhelming, HUGE" feeling the C4S gives over the Carrera 4. I'm taking notes.

Best recommendation I can make it test drive it Bro....I test drove a 2001 C4.....and then a 2004 C4S.....The sound, the feel.....just have to drive both......(not to offend anyone with a 4.....the extra horsepower to me made a difference) as I know that the difference between the C4S and the Turbo would be just as noticeable.....just my two cents...the proof is in the test drive... But I absolutely LOVE driving my C4S...especially in 2nd and 3rd gear....turn radio off with top down and enjoy

and for the $200 bucks Porsche Pre Inspection, the mechanic spent over 6 hours on my car....test driving it for 45 minutes, draining and filtering oil.....taking the engine out and checking every inch of car on the lift......an absolutely must....good luck with your Porsche fund...

You got a mechanic to take the engine out for $200.00? Did he keep it?

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that's an amazing deal and would cost closer to $2000-$3000 to pull the motor (and reinstall ) at most places.

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when I was shopping for a 996, I stopped looking at 3.4's once I test drove an "S" there's certainly a difference and you feel it right away. Especially when driven back to back. It will feel like you went from a Ferrari f430 to a Porsche 996 4.0. lmao

Hell the 6 hours alone was worth more than the $200 bucks...

Agreed after driving the 3.6....I would not even consider a 3.4.....I would have bought a 3.6 with higher miles to equal out the price...difference...definitely a feel/sound thing for me....

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yes, exactly. A thorough PPI without cylinder scoping was between $450-$600 when I was shopping for my 996.

Going to bump this thread again like the other guy did. I'm in the market for my first Porsche 911 and I'm torn as well. Except I'm torn between strapping myself a bit and buying a 996 Turbo (2001-2004 ish) OR the almost mint condition 2003 996 C4S I drove a week or so ago. (I have a thread about a Turbo I'm looking at already). Silver 996 C4S, Manual, ONLY 23,300 miles and claims to never has seen rain. Looks almost brand new. Silver / Black interior. He was asking $42K but knows that was high... I have him agreed to a deal for the car at $35k...Me Knowing that I'll be spending $2-$3K for the IMS / RMS , water pump, and maybe a clutch while in there. I'd be into a very low mile beautifully clean 2004 C4S for $37-$38K... I know that's probably still a little high but It will be my toy and not a daily driver. Miles will not rack up on this car, so hopefully resale with be decent when time comes. Now, I really love power and have had many high hp toys over the years (last toy made 1053 WHP). So I really want a turbo but we're talking $45-$55K at least. Any pros here have advice for this guy on what I should do (specifically about this C4S?? Price still too high or being in such awesome condition, is it okay??) Thanks in advance, David

I'm not going to give you any advice on pricing, as I've been out of the 996 market for a long time. I loved my 996 C4S, and I had a good experience with it overall. That being said, the turbo is a special car in many ways. It still represents the best value on the market in a high-performance car, in my opinion. It uses the Mezger engine, which has legitimate roots in racing. It can be had with a manual transmission, while current turbos only offer PDK gearboxes. If I were buying a 996 right now, it would be a turbo.

I won't tell you what to do except this....get the PPI done on the c4s.....sounds like a great deal...Is it a Cabrio or coupe....? I agree the turbo is a special car and I would likely have spent a bit more if it could have....Keep in mind with the turbo, you won't have to deal with the IMS/RMS replacement issue which can be factored in...I would also recommending driving the thing as that is what it is meant to do (i..e, worrying about resale...in Europe it is a badge of honor for them to have higher miles and still on the road...) just sayin... I absolutely love driving my c4s though....

Quotes source posts: 14387546, 14387631

Understood on the pricing comment. i agree on the Turbo and if you knew me, that's exactly what I want. But, I'm just a "working class" car guy. A poor old police officer "Car Guy". I work lots of off-duty details for my play / toy money. Buying a turbo would stretch me thinner than the C4S would. REALLY tough call for me. But I know I want a 911. Always have had. Had an 84 928 but that doesn't count. I am however afraid if I don't buy a 996 Turbo now, they may go up and price me out of them soon. Tough call. Thanks for the reply though. Given the shape of the car and miles (pending PPI), I think it's a great deal and would like keep it's value. But yes, I'd be buying it to drive it for sure!!! I have a take home patrol car, so neither of my two vehicles now get driven much. But they aren't Porsche's either. lol I'd definitely drive a Porsche more for sure. That's the point of this future purchase. Stress relief. IMS/RMS get's done and I won't have to worry about it for a long while again. I've owned a bunch of cars over my 45-46 years, so I would think at some point I'd sell this one too and move on to something else fun. Plus having it done would help future buyers purchase decision. Thanks for the reply also Sir!!

My 04' C4S ....purchased with 65k on it....2015...now has 81K on it.....Live in Jersey, Bought it in Chicago because I wanted this particular rare color...

Not sure why attachment is not showing....I tried

2.5 years later, I just did an autotrader search and found a 997 C4S in this particular color, with only 23K on it.....but price is 50K......about 20K more than I spent for mine.....If it was available at the time, I would have likely given it a test drive and considered it...I like the headlights better on 997, but like the tail lights better on the 996

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turbo. All the way.

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lol I hear ya!! It really is what I want.

With the money I have in my C4S, I could have waited a couple years and be in a turbo. I regret not being more patient

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Modified quote from the movie "Rudy" b3freak: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey what are you doing here??? Don't you have some work to do? AWDGuy: Not anymore, I quit 996. I quit M96. I quit Porsche!!! I quit!!! b3freak: Oh, well since when are YOU the quitting kind? AWDGuy: I don't know, with all I've given to this C4S and it still craps up, I just don't see the point anymore. b3freak: So you didn't get the Turbo, there are greater tragies in the world. AWDGuy: I wanted to drive out of that tunnell for my dad. To prove to everyone that I made it in life! b3freak: PROVE WHAT? AWDGuy: That I was somebody. A TurBRO man! b3freak: Oh you are so full of crap. It's overweight, fat hips, and hardly a spec of horse power more than the others and you hung in with the best sport cars in the land for three years, and you were also going to walk out of here with a degree from the University of Wedontgivea Dame... in this life time, you don't have to prove nothing to nobody except yourself and after what you've gone through, if you haven't done that by now, it aint gonna never happen, now go on back. Get behind that steering wheel and drive like it's your last day on earth!

Love my C4S, but I too would have gotten the turbo, if it was a bit closer in my range....its just THAT special of a car.....(if you are catching the trend of thought....) Best of luck....let me know what you decide..... I searched Turbos yesterday...but 997 Turbos....a 996 is likely more in reach financially, but I love those single bug eyes

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Searching them as we speak. Hope to find a good one soon!

All wheel drive is for winter and nondrivers. 997

AWD in the 996 won't do much for you in winter conditions. The viscous coupling system that it uses doesn't fit that need as well as the electronically controlled system in the 997.2 and 991 cars.

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I dined with a vicious couple one time, it got so bad, the manager threw us out of the restaurant. No wonder it doesn't work on the Porsche 996.

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I've been around a few of those myself. They never work out the way you expect!

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I'd definitely agree that the driver's option is 2WD, as the steering is better and the chassis control more in the hands of the driver rather than the AWD system. There is also a weight advantage, and less weight always improves driver interaction. That's why so many modern cars are comparatively dull - lugging around in excess of 1600KG - it's like having two 150kg wrestlers in the back seat compared to a 996 C2.....nuff said! But I wouldn't be so harsh as to say AWD drivers are "nondrivers". There are definite advantages of AWD if your car is your daily driver and you live in wet/snow geographical locations. The driving compromise is not huge. Fortunately for me my 911 is a total indulgence to be enjoyed in leisure time only - hence my choice of a 996.2 C2 manual, barely over 1300kg - brilliant driver's car. A C4S held no attraction for me at all being 150KG heavier and AWD - so many choose it for the looks of the wide hips. Really?? You can't see them when you're driving, and why else would you have such a brilliant car as a 911, if not for the drive...

In my case tried a 1995 993 Targa a 2006 997S and a 2004 996 C4S..the winner was the best of both worlds in Atlas Gray