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YOUR RESEARCHMod a 996, how crazy am I?
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Install i will reveal my body kit of choice
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Once they've been painted and installed I will reveal my body kit of choice.
Leading evidence: 'Install i will reveal my body kit of choice' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust oem deficiencies' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
Maybe the most overlooked aspect of rebuilding is making sure the tolerances on the bores/pistons adjust for the OEM deficiencies.
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Suggestion
I'm absolutely certain that when in for repair, the "Porsche tax" gets increased to "Porsche Turbo Tax".
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Suggestion
You don't have the cost of replacing the IMS bearing in a 996TT.
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Suggestion
it is unfortunate that our engines are so brittle considering the costs, if we could run 20psi or so on the stock engine reliably these cars would double in value
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Generally, the hydraulic spoiler is seen as a major expense, but aftermarket fixes (there are two developed by Rennlisters) have basically eliminated this problem.
I currently have four hobby cars but due to space, time, and the fact I'm not a carb guy I'm going to sell two. My 78 corvette will go and so will my 87 944. I considered doing an ls swap in the 944 but it's an honest 15k adventure.
So then I started thinking what about focusing on my two favorite cars? For about $12 k more my 91 ZR-1 will be all sorted and making around 500 hp and looking awessome.
So the 996 I want to do the exhaust, a full body kit, and custom wheels along with a few other shiny bits. So for around 10k, I can have a 996 that looks like no other. I have a fairly specific plan.
Then after another few years do the engine right like a FSI HPDE build. I'm already eying the online course for this year and engine class next year. A 350-400 hp 996 with a unique look would be a blast to own.
Figure getting both cars to this point is a 4 year plan. Am I insane? Does it matter? I really don't plan on selling either of these. And later I'd add a boxster or boxster s for the wife and I to tool around in. She likes the special edition orange 08.
So if you could be this loco, would you?
if you want an honest 400hp that doesn't make your wallet sweat you should look into a renegade, the M96 is not really an engine for maximum HP.
Or you could do something like a 997.2 DFI engine swap? still will cost $$$$$
Doesn't sound insane to me. You're downsizing the herd and dedicating resources to the cars you really want. IMO, the key statement is, "I really don't plan on selling either of these."
If you plan on selling a car, its value is what the market says it is. If you don't plan on selling a car -- and don't anticipate a situation where you'd have to sell a car to raise cash -- then the only value that matters is what the car is worth to you.
At some point, I intend to send my car to FSI to have it rebuilt to a 3.6 street engine. After that, I'll probably need defined-value insurance because "book value" will be so far out of whack relative to replacement cost. In terms of market value, it'll make no sense whatsoever; to me, I'm sure it'll be worth every penny.
I believe FSI can get me between 350 and 400 hp and keep the great flat six sound and balance of the car. I took my first step off the deep end today. I ordered my side skirts and exhaust tips. I will probably send my mufflers to be fistered soon. I will probably do headers and an IPD plenum around the same time. This Christmas I will get the front bumper and rear spoiler. Once they've been painted and installed I will reveal my body kit of choice. Then I will get my custom wheels next. After that I will tack on a few items here and there while I save for a 3.6 to 3.8l powerhouse.
I plan to have a 996 like no one else's.
If you are going to drop that kind of coin on a motor from FSI, why not just get a turbo as a base car and modify the body on that. Youd be much better off imo.
^yup. Sell the car and use the funds from that and your mod money to get into a turbo. You'll be at 400+ HP right away with a much more reliable platform to work on form there.
Because the wife and I are attached to this car. And I want something unique. Crazy, yes. And besides my wife questions my sanity whenever I sell or buy another car, but car parts she never asks....
Don't think the turbo is a cheaper platform to run. More expensive on the buy and in regular maintenance. Also heavier by a substantial amount.
Apples to oranges, people have been modifying n/a Carreras for almost 60 years.
Well to answer your original question then on a scale of 1-10 id give you a solid 7.5 on the crazy scale.
Score based on emotional attachment to car (which clouds reasoning) and apparent disregard for economical spending (spending high amounts of money on the M96 engine to make relatively reliable compared to the Mezger motor).
I've seen this statement a lot. But, after owning both a NA 996 and a 996TT, I am not completely convinced of this. Generally, the hydraulic spoiler is seen as a major expense, but aftermarket fixes (there are two developed by Rennlisters) have basically eliminated this problem. Brakes (with the exception of the PCCBs) & tires are going to be the same as the C4S. Yes, turbos, but other than wastegate actuators ($250 + minimal labor), not a lot of maintenance there. No AOS problems in a 996TT like you have in the M96. You don't have the cost of replacing the IMS bearing in a 996TT. Oil changes, fluid flushes the same. Interior bits & pieces the same. I feel that the maintenance costs on both is pretty comparable.
Tony - not saying you're wrong, just that my experience hasn't panned out that way. I'm absolutely certain that when in for repair, the "Porsche tax" gets increased to "Porsche Turbo Tax".
(Hey,wait a tick, "Turbo Tax", get it? I may have just created a new "FRUNKenstein"!!)
mi
I never said it was chaper to run. he wants 400hp. Im not near that and have 4.0 N/A. it would take a lot more money for me to get to 400 reliable NA WHP in my car. I've already spent turbo car money in this car and engine build.
Supercharger is obviously the cheapest way to go to get more power (or turbo) ... but i see so many people claiming engines are blowing because of it but i have only seen one post where someone actually did it. Although I am concerned how well it will work on the track.
I have been yes / no going back and forth on doing a supercharger now since i purchased mine ... still have not decided
I want the extra power BUT I dont want the risk lol.
I already did tune, exhaust, intake, intake plenum / throttle body etc so I have done pretty much as much as i can before the supercharger or engine swap.
Totally with you on the uniqueness, I am totally with you on that so it sounds like we are in the same boat.
I am also contemplating selling my C2 and buying a turbo but on the downsides its heavier, AWD (good and bad) and there are far more mods so its going to cost me even more money because i know that I will mod the hell out of it lol. On the plus side it will likely hold its value better than the C2 and obviously you can get crazy power out of it.
ughhh decisions
Curious where your build's power is at given the 40th AE 4.0L car from BaT was noted as a 400hp car by the builder (FSI). I guess that's power package, big bore, etc. to get to that point, though.
It's not that big a difference in the end between TT & rebuilt m96, but it seems like 350-400 range of power is doable with the m96 at a lower price point with lower ultimate costs to maintain than a TT.
Roller or high mile 996 + rebuild < TT money
In the end, it's probably more important to focus on the platform you like (C2, C4 or C4S vs TT). Your entry point on the C4S, combined with the rebuild, imo represents the high end of the spectrum in terms of an n/a 996 big bore build. Bad for initial costs, but there's a lot of value in your setup over the long haul.
yeah, apples and oranges. FSI is an engine builder who knows what he's doing to extract as much power as possible. has a **** load more money too.
I am a guy (with not a **** load of money) who put some nuts and bolts back together. the builds cannot be compared to each other.
if I knew what would of happened, I would have waited a couple more years to save up the difference for a turbo.
I don't think 350-400 hp as I've stated is unreasonable. I already have 400 in my other car and getting it to 500 is 10k labor included. 350-400 in a C2 that looks like no other is quite appealing. I've owned a few turbo cars myself. It's always cheap until you decide to upgrade your hairdryers.
P.S. I'm out of the country but my wife will take delivery of side skirts and exhaust tips tomorrow. She is quite excited about how gorgeous the body mods are going to be. Anyone know a good painter in DFW for parts?
I'm a long time car guy. Trust me as a Porschephile, economic arguments are useless.
600+ hp for 25k. '12 to '14 mustang gt plus supercharger or c5 Corvette plus supercharger. It's easy. I have 395 hp in the driveway with less than 1000 miles on it and it was only 27k! Yeah, hemi truck! It's getting a few mods too. Daily driver fun.
We shall find out. I'm a cheap bastard though. If I went racing, my team would be cheap bastard racing. Since I'm a v8 guy, I'm going to take FSIs online then in person class next year to learn what I'm up against.
Elective rebuilds at FSI are less expensive by a material amount of money from what I understand. Then there are some good writeups by guys like AWDguy & Ahsai to help piece together the DIY-path. Maybe the most overlooked aspect of rebuilding is making sure the tolerances on the bores/pistons adjust for the OEM deficiencies. That information can be tricky to come by though.
Yes any planned engine work will almost always exceed the preliminary budget. It's also the one place skimping on a car shows most. C'est la vive.
I know I should've picked a cheaper hobby like hookers and blow.....
it is unfortunate that our engines are so brittle considering the costs, if we could run 20psi or so on the stock engine reliably these cars would double in value
It isn't about brittle engines. Porsche N/A engines run very compression ratios, adding boost to that is guaranteed kaboom. Turbo engines have turbo friendly compression ratios. It's because it's a necessity. Anytime you equal or exceed 100hp per liter you are asking a lot from an internal combustion engine n/a or boosted. You can make super high hp engines that last 1/4 mile, 500 miles, or maybe even 24 hours. The problem today is everyone wants cheap, powerful and reliable. Pick two, because no one can have all 3. It's the engineers dilema, or in this case engine builder.
No high hp, naturally aspirated high compression engine will ever survive 20 psi of boost long.
350-400 should be achievable though. If I go with a 3.6 and take care of the details 360 is tight at 100 hp/liter which is healthy but reasonable. 110 hp/liter is ambitious and will cost more but it's 396 hp..... 300 to 340 to the ground will be the real measure of success.
My wife is excited about my plans too. This is going to be fun.
Not only will it need resleeving it will need new pistons and a much lower compression ratio, new valves and likely different cams. I'm not planning on adding boost. I though that would've clear from the above. If you want to run boost, start with an engine designed for it.
This is the correct answer. I have a FSI 4.0, race only it measured 365 at the wheels while Jake was breaking it in and I'm sure he is doing better than that now.
365 rwhp is impressive from 4.0L. It's way over 400 flywheel hp. I'm sure over the course of the next year I will learn what will be needed. Are you running cats and / or mufflers or is that an open header 4.0? How much if any porting was done before the intake ports in the cylinder heads? I'm certain the heads are modified at least enough to remove parting lines in the ports.
thats a big no on the swap. I'm too old for that crap and travel too much these days.
a 996tt or 997tt is probably still in my future, or maybe a 991 GTS when prices hit bottom. I'm going to move forward with this project in the meantime.
Im going to have a 1 of 1 996 carrera and enjoy it.
I believe that you're chasing diminishing returns.
If you are doing the upgrades for the pleasure of doing so, then by all means go ahead. But if you consider that you can sell the car and recoup what you've spent, that's very unlikely. At best, I think you'd get back 5% of what you spent on upgrades.
And upgrading things places greater stress on the drivetrain and chassis, so your modded items can break components that might have been reliable had you left things stock.
Its a full meal deal from Jake and Friends.
3.6 block, sleeved, fancy pistons and rods, billet crank, fully balanced, Len Hoffman massaged heads, bored TB, IPD, headers, X pipe, tips, no cats or mufflers, IMS Solution.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not doing this for ROI purposes but for fun!!!! Remember fun?
Thanks for the engine details, impressive photo.
Im doing the exterior and interior first. I'm also going to take raby's online class this sept. Then the school next year. Then I will decide on my power plant budget and options.
I am going to do the ipd plenum and a few exhaust mods in the meantime too.
I will never sell this car nor my 91 ZR-1. I have others to sell though. The 996 and ZR-1 are very different but both of them make me smile as soon as I turn the key. Other cars, not so much. Are there faster better cars? Sure but that doesn't change how I feel about these two cars or how they make me happy.
Wife and I met for lunch one day and took fun cars.
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