How To Drive A 911 Fast(er).

This is my first Porsche. I have had a bunch of Corvettes, a couple 350Z's, an all wheel drive Dodge Stealth, and an old 240Z back in the early 80's. My uncle has a 911TT (don't remember if it is a 996 or 997) and a RUF, both of which I've had the pleasure of driving. Of course, driving those cars was a little different because they weren't mine (and I couldn't afford to replace them) so I was a bit conservative while driving. I got my car at the beginning of the year. Shortly after getting it I drove it to Palm Springs taking the back way over the mountains. There is a nice twisty road coming down the back side into Palms Springs so I'm trying to get used to the over steer and going down a steep road didn't help any. Gave me a bit of an uneasy feeling and was not sold on the car because of that. Fast forward multiple months to today. Only drove it a couple times locally in town since then. Today, in an attempt to get out this unending ungodly heat, I decided to take a trip up the mountain again. I watched a few videos on how to drive these cars and kind of figured it out today. You can't drive them like a normal car, instead as you all know, you have to scrub off speed before hitting your turn, then getting on it and letting the back end squat down and grab the road. Started to get the hang of it and get the feel for the car. Still a little uneasy with all the horrors stories I've heard over the years about not lifting mid-turn lest you end up in the weeds or in today's case, flying off a 1,000 foot cliff! I don't really want to start racing or even doing HPDE's but thinking a couple days on a track with an experienced Porsche driving instructor may let me know where the real limits of the car are without worrying about, well, killing myself! How many of you have done something like this and where did you do it? I guess I should go to the regional section here and post there, huh? As a side note, I put the top down about halfway up the mountain. I have a stainless exhaust system (don't know the manufacturer) and man, what a beautiful sound this car makes when you get on it!

If you want to become a better driver, I highly recommend the Bondurant 4 day GP school. It will totally how you view driving a car. The first three days will teach you car control, and the 4th day you get to practice in a rear engine formula car that is more like your 911. The importance of learning on a track is that in order to learn the limits of your car, you are going to have to push past them a few times. And you don't want to do that on the streets.

I highly recommend PCA DE events. You'll learn a ton about how to drive these cars fast and have a lot of fun doing it. Yes, you are right - slow in / fast out is the fastest way around a corner.

More gas, less brake. 911 are a blast to drive fast. Just don't do it on the street.

HPDE's are a great way to learn how to drive your car fast and with confidence. You will have an instructor in the passenger seat coaching you via a communicator in your helmet. In addition, you will have classroom sessions discussing 'the line' for the particular racetrack you are on. You will also learn about the three types of corners and how to approach them. It is a lot more subtle than slow in fast out of course. But the main concept is somewhat counterintuitive in that when you put your foot down around a corner you have more grip because of the inherent weight transfer. This is particularly apparent in fast sweepers. Nothing like it when you get it right!

Another option to learn the wonders (and limits) at highway speeds is doing an Autocross. PCA is a good start and will usually have instructors and loaner helmets. Usually $45-ish, no upfront investment and I'll bet you'll be grinning a mile wide by the end of the day.

I'll echo everyone and say have to do it at autocross or HPDE. I have been on tracks for about 18 years in FWD cars and RWD (S2000 and Miata). The most shocking thing about the 996 was that I had to learn to lie to myself. When the back starts getting out you sort of have to stay in it and give it more throttle....to a point, too much and you spin.... but when you get it right, it is like a freight train. It just sticks and tracks strongly forward. This is a generalization, you obviously don't give it more gas in every corner in every situation. It was a little scary at first because you don't trust it and it doesn't make sense (especially if you have driven other types of cars). I tell people the 911 is a FWD RWD car. Sort of drives like a FWD car with RWD throttle steer and acceleration. (I hope this makes sense).

Wildomar is not far from San Diego. Twice a year we (PCA - San Diego Region) put on a Performance Driving School (PDS) when you learn the basics of performance driving through multiple exercises like skid pad, slalom, and many others. It is two days of driving exercises plus an evening of "chalk-talk" classroom time. Tons of fun, and WELL worth the price. We have one coming up in a couple weeks... Set. 23, 24, and 25. Enrollment is limited, but I believe there are a few sign-up spots still open. I would strongly recommend the PDS before doing an HPDE. Here's a link if you are interested: http://www.pcasdr.org/event/pca-sdr-...-black-forest/

Quotes source post: 13594151

Thanks Mike. Unfortunately, I will be out of town that weekend. That seems like the perfect course for me and very reasonably priced too. I'm not a PCA member though. How do I join that? Maybe I'll try to reschedule my trip so I can attend.

Never mind on the PCA membership thing. I just found it on the link you provided.

I believe you would be in the Riverside Region if you join, but you can certainly do events with San Diego Region. Membership is I think $40 a year, which also includes a subscription to Panorama magazine. Anyway, as mentioned above, we have PDS twice a year, so join PCA and get on the email list for future events, or check back periodically on PCA-SDR's web calendar of events. Or, as you mentioned, see if you can get your trip rescheduled and attend the PDS this month. EDIT: I just checked... this event is sold out... it always fills up fast. You can contact the chief driving instructors via email at: [email removed] to see if there are any others on the wait list.

I don't own a 911. (Yet. Presently looking for one.) But I have done lots of auto-crossing (on Mustang and Camaro) and done some go-karing both in the dry and wet. So without having direct 911 experience, but knowing quite a bit of theory how they supposed to handle in relation what I have driven, here are my recommendations. - Do not take it to a race track unless you can consistently control slides on a wide parking lot. I don't care how good of an instructor you have, if you don't have car control skills you will not save it if the tail comes out. - Include go-karting in your training. Since go-karts have brakes only in the back, it will help you get out of a habit of applying brakes when the rear comes out. However, realize that go-kart slides are easier to control than on a full size car. - Keep practicing! Car control skills deteriorate with time. - Read "Porsche High Performance Driving Handbook" by Vic Elford. Tells you about specific handling characteristics 911s. Also read "Going faster! Mastering the Art of Race Driving", by Karl Lopez. This book talks about general theory of car control, as well as some other ospects of racing. BTW, despite that everyone says that 911s have the engine in the wrong place, the fact is they have the same weight distribution as Ferrari 458, McLaren 650S as well as Formula 1 cars. (Cayman weight distribution is already too far forward from ideal.)

Quotes source post: 13593786

Just wanted to point out that it's a general rule for driving most cars fast, not just 911s. It's just the nose heavy cars will typically be much more forgiving when people use poor techniques.

I have accidently lifted off in the middle of a couple corners and yes the back end will swing out a little... my advice is don't get back on the throttle unless you are confident you can stay in the throttle. I enter the corners with no brake or gas, then about 40-50% through the corner I get back on the throttle. I'm not a professional by any means, but this is the easiest way for me to control my C2

There are many options for DEs, including PCA-sanctioned events as well as groups such as Hooked on Driving and the like in which you get to see and mix with non-Porsche folks and check out their cars. You will definitely end the day with more skills and probably a few new friends as well. Speaking strictly for myself, I've tried autocross but I now opt for DE events. IMO DE is easier on the car and teaches more real-world-applicable skills. The bottom line is simple: find a venue in which you have an instructor advising as you blast around the track. if you want to impress the instructor, simply listen to him/her and apply what they teach you. I promise you wiil be amazed by the ability of your car.

Quotes source post: 13593786

If your PCA region offers a high-performance driving school (like San Diego Region's 3-day class), I strongly recommend it. For a relatively low cost you get to experience your car driven at/beyond "the edge." For example, you'll get practice on a soaped skid pad and learn what the car feels like when it's about to give up - and what to do once it DOES give up. Practicing putting the car into a slide and then catching and recovering the slide, practicing throttle steer, learning just how much space it takes to haul the car down to a stop, and more are all learned in an environment where it's actually safe. A public road is a much less forgiving place to learn things like just how hard you can stand on the brakes without getting into the ABS. I took the course twice, once when I got my 986 and again when I got my 996. I knew all about (I thought) the 911's snap oversteer and had ridden in instructor 911's at autocrosses; the driving school made me realize just how tame the 996 is compared to earlier 911's and get a basic initial understanding of how the car handles as you approach 10/10ths. I think it's a great idea to do some kind of car control class before heading out for an autocross and even more so before heading out to a track event...some people are just slow when they hit the track before they really have a good understanding of the car; others can be downright dangerous... Someone else mentioned Bondurant; I think that's fairly expensive, but still a good idea. I like the PCA version because you do the driving in your own car. The upside is that everything you learn is applicable to your own vehicle; the downside, of course, is that any wreck will involve your own car (that latter point is a joke - a properly run school, assuming you're following instructions, shouldn't be especially risky).

I second the PDS notion with San Diego Region. We continually have attendees in from all across the country. There isn't a better way to learn your car in 48 hours.

Driving 911s through corners is a great deal like driving sportbikes through corners. They have very similar characteristics in the twisties. I've found the my experience in riding those through the years makes driving a tail dragger through turns feel much more normal than most people seem to. My '01 with PSM is NOTHING compared to the old air cooled 911s I have driven. It feels almost too tame compared to them!

Quotes source post: 13594260

Very true. This is the category I find myself in today. Time to get back on the track! Mike