Fister D's Arrived! Now..who should do the install?

It won't be me...that's for sure. Should I have a muffler shop do it, or take it to my Indy? Seems like a simple job but...

You need 13mm/16mm/18mm sockets (maybe a 10mm or 12mm too, I forget), matching box end wrenches and 45-60 minutes to remove/install mufflers. Man up and do it.

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Thanks Captain, but what's a wrench? Just kidding. No access to lift, jack stands etc. Plus, it will be +110 in my garage (heat wave in AZ). Figure it will cost me less to actually have it done. As for "man-ing up", I'll have you know I installed my clear side markers all by myself

I'd probably just go to a muffler place. Labor rates are much lower and it doesn't require much to do this work. I bet you'll be in an out for $50.

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If that's the case, I'd probably take it to a European shop in your area that has at least some experience with Porsches. I'd skip a muffler shop because an exhaust install on these cars is more akin to mechanical work than exhaust work, and I wouldn't trust the trained monkeys at the average exhaust shop.

Congrats on receiving them, Gonzo911. Got mines ordered. Keep us posted, so when I get mine I know which route you went. Congrats again.

I believe the bolts on the 1999 were 17mm for cat side to mufflers.

You don't need a lift or jack stands - just Rhino Ramps from AutoZone or Pepboys for $35. But I do understand about not wanting to do it in 110 degrees. Like Capt Obvious said, the exhaust system bolts together like an Erector Set. The average muffler shop guy wants to start cutting with a torch. Bad news. If you don't have a lot of corrosion it's a very easy DIY.

Three nuts on either side, and the mufflers wiggle out. Took about 20 minutes for the first one and 10 tops on the second. The PITA for me was getting the muffler clamp off. Completely destroyed both. Make sure you have spare clamps. Other than that, piece of cake. Get a fan and give it a try!

Thanks for the encouragement but I am going to support my local and excellent Indy. Called the local Midas. Wanted to schedule 4-5 hours labor. Joys of Porsche ownership!

Dude any repair shop should be able to handle this job. This is like a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10. Yes 1 being the easiest job ever. No offense to anyone of course.

if the indy have not done it in the past, it can take two hours to do it right. But with a lift an hour should do plenty

Do you need to remove the bumper cover ?

No need to remove the bumper cover or wheels or anything else that isn't attached to the exhaust system. Scheduling 4-5 hours gives them enough time to do the job, see a movie, then go out for dinner and dancing. I would run away from anyone who gave me that estimate. They want to cut up your exhaust system with a torch. RUN AWAY. Once the mufflers are off you will probably have to cut the bolts on the tip clamps with a hack saw. Easy to do with the mufflers out of the car. No need to replace the clamps ($35 each), just replace the nuts and bolts (Stainless steel, about two bucks total at Ace Hardware). Surely there must be some Rennlisters in your area who can help out. (yes, and don't call me Shirley)

Got a neighborhood kid who wrenches a bit? Give him $20 to do it. Seriously, this is an easy job.

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ONLY if you're going to assist. if that kid fudges up, then you have made it worse. support your indi, bring some food or snacks and a cold gatorade and he may just do it in a half hour.

I wrench for a living and see horrible things shops do when they attempt repairs. This goes for a P dealer as well that installed my reman motor on my my previous 996. I have pics I may share on another thread. Anyway, have a qualified shop do it and beg for their best, most careful and qualified tech to do the work. Many of the bolts used in the exhaust system are stainless and they gall and seize rather easily. If this happens it's unlikely the tech at a muffler shop is going to try to source new expensive hardware at a P dealer. Aligning the tips is a bit of a challenge at times as well.

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I hear ya!. my indi installed the FD's on my 996 Cab, and I still had to tweak the FS dual tips after I got home.

At the shop now. Glad to hear the consensus ranges from "a kid could do it", to "it's basically like rebuilding an engine". Will report back on how bad it gets F'd up!

Good luck. Don't let them near the car with a torch.

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It's like rebuilding an engine if you're talking about the engine of a rubberband powered toy airplane.

Hanging with the mechanic. Has to remove most of the exhaust system to allow clearance to remove/install the exhaust, without removing the bumper.

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WRONG. The easiest way to remove it is to take 5 minutes and remove the rear wheels, then remove the three bolts between the muffler and the bracket that holds it to the engine. Loosen the two bolts on the exhaust clamp that connects the muffler to the catalytic converter, then wiggle the muffler out. Swap the brackets over to the new muffler, then reinstall. 25 minutes per side, tops.

Owner stepped in and showed him how to do it. Did not need to remove tires...just missed a bolt. The owner stayed with him to finish the job. They are almost done. Thanks Captain!

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Four or Five hours labor????? That is insane for a shop to charge that much. I had the assistance of a friend (shade tree mechanic) and it took us about 90 minutes, using ramps only. Good luck and you will not be disappointed

For future reference. I did mine in 35 f temperatures using only ramps. I didn't remove the wheels. No special tools. It took me 45 minutes for the first side and I could probably do it now in 15 minutes or less. Oops. Forgot to mention that you should tell them to reverse the long bolts so that next time you can remove the cans without removing the brackets.

I did mine in my driveway. I didn't have ramps, just jack stands. I removed the rear wheels and the rear bumper cover, only to realize I didn't really have to go to that extent. Even with this extra work, the whole thing only took 2 hours.

We're waiting to hear your impressions of the new sound...

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Here's my impression. Wow! Talk to you guys later...going for another drive. Have a great weekend and thanks for all the input!

Agreed. It's double-wow in a cabriolet.

Sounds extra nice with the top down. Enjoy!

Bumping this thread as I am about to start the removal to ship to Fister. I hit the bracket bolts with PB Blaster this morning; anything else going to need a shot of PB Blaster or will the rest of them come out pretty simply?

This is one of the easiest things to do. 3 13mm nuts and 2 bolts that attached the can to the cat. Also found this https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...lp-needed.html If you do a search there are tonnnnnnnss of threads like this.

Clamp nuts are SUPER rusted. Applied pb blaster this morning but so far nothing is budging. 17 mm ratchet appears to be slipping a little bit, definitely not a tight fit. Might have to bite the bullet and take the car to a shop to get these loosened. Don't have access to a torch.

Try tightening them to snap them. Then get stainless to replace them.

Ok, there is a 0% chance I am going to be able to get these off on my own. I've brilliantly managed to round off the one clamp bolt and I reached my hand up to the area where the 3 13 mm bolts are and those feel as rusted as the clamp bolts were when I started. So, what are my options for removing these cans and shipping them to fister? If I take it to a shop for them to remove them I will be muffler-less and don't think I can drive it home that way as fun as that sounds. Ideas?

Do you know someone with a decent air compressor and cut tools? If so you could take the bumper and heat shields off and cut the 2 bolts (not the 3- 13mm because those are weld studs) that hold the can to the muffler bracket and cut the bolts by the cat.......I guess you could use a sawzall for that matter. Replace with new hardware.

I had to take a grinder wheel to the bolts below the license plate area. Other than that it was pretty easy. This thread is lacking pictars

Dremel with cutting disks....awesome tool.

Wtf. Cut the nut clean off and the clamp hasn't moved a bit. This project has now reached the "I will be successful even if it means I light the car on fire and burn down my house" stage.

You need to open/cut both bolt's on the clamp. Clamp can be very tight even when the bolt's are gone. I use retaining ring pliers to loosen the clamp's.

Yup... Exactly what happened with mine. I replaced all of the hardware.

Bolt has been cut off, driver's side clamps are loose. 13 mm nuts are soaking in pb blaster. I'm having trouble getting a ratchet onto those nuts; any tips on getting to them? I'm assuming it's just being careful and taking my time but if there is a trick let me know.

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Try using a 1/4" drive ratchet. Do some finger gymnastics and give it a try. A 1/4" air ratchet would really be the ticket.

I have 9 of the 10 nuts loose and the passenger side muffler off. I think I am at risk of stripping the nut on the stud farthest back on the drivers side. Grrrrrr..... So close.

I cannot get the last nut off. It is rounded off and I can't get a bolt off onto it to come loose. I think I am going to have to take it somewhere. Admitting defeat suuuuuuucks. Question. I have one muffler off and all of the other bolts removed. If I drive the car 1 to 2 miles with all the hardware removed and missing 1 muffler am I gonna screw anything up?

Well.......that blows. I would put the hardware back on the can that is still on the car, put some ear plugs in and get it to a shop or.......take the bumper off and the heat shields. You should be able to get to the 2 bolts that hold the can to the bracket that the final nut is attached too. The bolts are vertical with the head of the bolt on top. If you can't wrench them off then cut them off. Give it a shot. The bumper and heat shields will take you a 1/2 hour to remove.

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I can get the vertical bolts loose. I did that and then realized I couldn't get them out the top. To confirm, if I remove bumper and heart shield I can extract the bolts connecting the muffler to the brackets through the top? I'd so, I'm doing that.

I'm pretty sure that would do the trick but I'm not 100% but you will have alot more access. At this point you have nothing to lose.

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Yeah, I assume that even if they don't come out I can cut them off and then replace them which I am intending to do anyway. At this point I think I am at the equivalent of about $30,000 of my billable time into this project. I do not want to give up. Never surrender!!!!

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Got the muffler cover and heat shield off. No, you cannot wiggle the bolt out the top, but I *think* that I can push the bolt up high enough to be able to cut it. I think. Got the bolt on the front hanger loose. Then I got a wrench on the nut on the bottom of rear hanger bolt and it snapped off as soon as I turned it. Perfect, now I just pop it out the top, says the optimist in me. Eeeeeeeeeeexceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeept the bolt is rusted to the hanger and won't pop out. Hit it with PB Blaster and hopefully I can make this work. Picture of post-PB Blaster shot attached:

Geebus.......this is painful to watch......give her hell!

I feel your pain, I had to get serious on a rusted motor mount nut. Get mean on that biatch.

My wife has fully transitioned from wtf is your problem, pay someone to do this you idiot to seeing the challenge and is now fully along for the ride. She complained about the smell of the pb blaster the first time. Now she is suggesting it to see if that works. I'm gonna get this done. I ........ think.

It's a F!@#$ exhaust, you can definately do it! If they wont budge, cut them off and get new ones!

Wow I feel so bad for those of you that live in corrosive environments. Mine were tight but a little PB Blaster and some muscle and they were out! Now I can remove my mufflers in minutes if I need to.

Yeah. I could do this in about 40 minutes total if the nuts would come off without a complete 3 act drama.

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I emailed Darin this morning and basically asked him, if I have to break something, what should I break? His answer was to break the bracket (the piece with the three studs on it) and not to damage the mounting arms from the can or the part that attaches to the engine. So, inspired by Seeeu911's sentiments, I went medieval on this mother ******. I managed to mangle the bracket sufficiently that I was able to pop the long vertical (front) bolt out of the bracket and wiggle it around so I have access to the rear vertical bolt. I was able to get a bolt off onto the top bolt head (remember, for those of you not following along with this saga as closely as your parents would like, the nut and part of the bolt on the bottom of this one snapped off) and twist it loose. So, easy game right? Pop that bad boy out the top and off we go. Of course not. Nope. It turns, both directions, but it doesn't come out of the hole. Just twists there in its own little space (not shocking really, as there aren't any threads on the bolt until the very bottom). If I wiggle the can it moves up and down, it just won't come up and out. Progress, but no advancement. I will not do this: No matter how many times I do this:

I briefly read the dilemma, can you get a bolt extractor and remove the final 13mm back behind the bracket? I thought each muffler had 3 bolts on backside and then the 17mm on the clamped tubing. I think Ace stocks them too.

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I tried that; the problem with a bolt extractor is you need to put force on them so that they seat and there isn't room to apply that force. Now that I have mangled the bracket there might be room. I'll try anything (obviously).

Wait. I am an idiot. I should be able to drill out the rear bracket bolt from below.

Every time I see a thread tagged with "fister," I wonder how many people google their way here and then wonder why the hell they're looking at pictures of mufflers. You can do eet! Come on, man, get that sucker finished!

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recip saw or grinder?

Can you take a another bolt sim in diameter and use it as a punch? Bang the livin' $hit out of that m'r f'r.....at least that was my motto for high school dating but I digress....

DT...As the OP I must remind you of the title of this thread! Don't feel bad but the mechanic who did my install had problems as well, but I was able to get real time advice from the RennListers in here. Good luck. It sounds like you are closing in on it! Trust me, the first time your hear your new Fister D's it will be well worth it!

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Thanks. I bookmarked this thread months ago after searching because of the solid advice on how to do it. The advice is solid for a rust free car. Mine is not.

Plasma cutter time!

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Lookin' like a fool with your pants on the ground.

I think he is so happy he is running around the block nekid....glad you got her off.....wait that doesn't sound right

Ha! Those are my son's snow pants. We've gotten blasted by snow the last few days around here.

you know i dont understand how ive never seen or heard about anyone in my area,(the north shore of long island) local porsche club(metro pca).concourse events ,de events etc.doing this fister d hack and i frequent and use my local porsche dealer,along with some very reputable independent shops,you would think i would have seen or heard about this modification.of course you really read about it all the time here on the renn,wonder why that is?....just saying.

For me Fister D ranks right up there along with: John Holmes Dale Dabone and Brian Pumper!

Mine are in the mail to FD Motorsports. Gotta say, Darin has been super awesome to work with. He called me yesterday to go over what hardware I was going to need and we had a good laugh at this ridiculous process. Can't wait to get them back.

You will love the sound! Thanks for sharing your pain - and thanks to all the Rennlisters who offered advice and encouragement. This is the way the site is supposed to work!

Darin has the mufflers now. For giggles I started the car without the mufflers on. It was pretty neat sounding.

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Dont be a ninny, go drive it like that. It is pretty awesome feeling the whole car shake as you open cat pipe it. Do it.... Do it now...

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I wish. I had to take bumper cover (with the license plate) and a heat shield off to vet the driver side muffler off. Getting a ticket for no plate and no mufflers would kind of suck.

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bumper takes 3 seconds to put back on and its worth it. as for no muffler ticket, you in cali? Im srue you could get away with 5 minutes of driving without a muffler.

Mine have arrived from Fister. I need to buy new nuts and bolts so I can install them. What material is my best option? Stainless?

Either stainless or just put some anti-seize compound and you should be all good.

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And a mere 50 days later, they are on. Other than a quick jaunt around the block I haven't gotten to test it out, but from what I can tell, I'm gonna like it. Thanks to all for the support and tips along the way. My lessons/take away: 1. If you see a ton of rust on the exhaust hardware and you don't have a complete set of tools, take it to a shop. It can be done, I'm living proof, but you'll thank me. 2. Make sure the tip clamps are tightened down before you install the mufflers. Mine were not, so I had to take off the heat shields to get to the clamps. 3. There is really no better satisfaction than that from doing a job yourself. 4. Final count -- 2 cat to muffler clamp bolts cut, two came off with some PB Blaster. 5 of the nuts holding the brackets to the mount came off, 1 had to be cut off. 3 of the long vertical bolts holding the bracket to the muffler came loose, one had to be drilled out. 1 muffler bracket now has a decided "C" shape and had to be replaced. 7 of 10 knuckles skinned, bumped, bruised or otherwise damaged.

Take a cruise through a canyon, overpass or a parking garage and hit that right pedal and see what you think. The FisterD mod is the best thing I've done to my car for sheer enjoyment (not to be confused with must do maintenance).

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Very good advice. I got under the car once mine arrived (I did not send my originals in for modification - one of you probably has them now) and quickly realized what a hard and nasty job it would be, mostly due to corrosion. My shop then did the work, and it took them much longer than projected. We replaced all of the hardware. It was of course more money than I had budgeted, but it was done right and well.

DT CUDOS for your PERSIVERANCE