Advice Needed - Starting to look for first

Hello: Same story as many others. I have been saving for YEARS to get my first 911. Hoping to get some advice on how to go about search. Here are some of the basic facts: $40,000 budget Live in PA, car would only be used in good weather No mechanical skills! No preference between Coupe and Cab Hoping to get some advice on: What models/years are realistic given my budget? Do I buy from Porsche dealer vs Private? What books/other resources should I read up on? Any other suggestions I am really excited to start! Thanks!

Chase that dream! 911 shopping is just as much fun as finding the right one. RL(rennlist), 6speedonline, renntech.org, just to name a few are great places to research which generation to shop for and you may find some fine examples for sale while you're at it. Are you interested in air-cooled 993 and prior or water-cooled 996 and up? $40K can put you in just about any type, and a private seller could pry give you best price, esp. if they share prior owner/maintenance history. Turbo may be hard to find in that price range, but you never know. Cab or coupe N/A..definitely for $40K or less definitely look for a reputable mechanic Check the regular classifieds here, or become a Paid member and browse the member classifieds. Look first for Pcars in your area, there should be plenty on autotrader, ebay, Cars.com, Carmax... Good luck, and we don't mind helping you spend your money....

Thanks for the advice! How do you go about deciding what model you want? I know what looks good to me, but won't be able to test drive a bunch of different models, especially when I will be looking at cars from the early to mid 2000's. Also, I can't imagine test driving someone's (non dealers) car without having at least an interest in purchasing. Appreciate any thoughts. Thanks!

You can easily find 996 (MY 2001-2003) Turbo's for $40k (i got one off eBay). OR You can easily find 997 C2, C2S, and C4 (not C4S or Turbos) for about $40k. (I was looking at the MY2005 range) til I found the Turbo. Unless you want the Turbo - get the 997 - and you can probably find one at a Porsche Dealer with CPO Warranty ! I like the Coupe - not a big convertible fan...I think its slightly noisier and easier to break into. Fabric's are not as safe as a roof and I am going bald anyways. :-) The car is noisy enough as it is...so not sure I want added wind noise. But that is just me. Guys that have both may have a different opinion. If you ever want to track it...convertible may be an issue there too. Here is another piece of advice. If you are buying off eBay - buy from a dealer with high ratings if not local. Get it inspected at a PORSCHE DEALER. It is more thorough and CHEAPER than these crazy "Mobile Car Inspectors" !!!!!!! I was lucky and found a local car - but I was an inch close to buying a nice one from a Ferrari dealer in Arizona. They were used to shipping cars - so not a problem. Here are options for finding good cars: This website, Your local PCA club, eBay, Autotrader, Google Maps (finding each porsche dealer's own website), High End car dealers (Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Lambo, etc...places where someone might trade in a Porsche for another high end car), other "PCar" websites. One note - if you need financing...banks will only pay for a car up to a maximum age (4-5 yrs) so make sure you are aware of that. Chris == 2002 996TT w/X50 in "Amulet Red"

A few random thoughts: Craigslist is also good if you know how to go beyond your city. Use an aggregator site like http://www.searchtempest.com/ to search multiple cities at the same time. Get to know the options and option codes of the year/model range you are looking for. There can be a big difference between 996/997 cars that may seem to be the same to a novice. Things like full leather, different stereo options, nav, traction control systems like PSM and PASM, and sport chrono in 997s, can make a big difference in the value and desirablity of these cars. The best thing - in the used car market these options don't add that much to the price, where as they could have added tens of thousands to the car when new. I decided on a set of options that I wanted - full leather and a couple of packages in my model year that gave me Bi-Xenons and Bose. That really helped me sort through the hundreds of cars I looked at online. Some I could just discard immediately, even though they were nice. Be picky. Be prepared to look across the country. I live in NC and found my current car in Boston and my last car in NJ. Membership in PCA and connections here on Rennlist can be invaluable if you want to put experienced eyes on a car you are considering. I have literally had strangers I never met drive out of their way to look at a car and then spend an hour on the phone telling me about it. Don't trust CARFAX. On the average used car this system works fine. But higher end car owners can often afford to pay the cost of repairs without filing an insurance claim. I have found many higher end cars with a 'clean' CARFAX that showed obvious signs of major body work.

pick a model, and then look at them.... the if you see things that bother you, switch to one that doesnt have that... then look at those. if you are not going to drive in winter... rule out all wheel drives, if you test out a few rear wheel drives and find them not to your liking, move to all wheel. Drive a cab.... WITH THE TOP DOWN, nothing worse than owning a cab and running around in town 75 degree weather with the top up...when I had my convertible i drove with the top down if it wasnt raining - period! Not everyone likes wind in thier hair or a mushy body try a Targa, cool amount of light. IMO stay away from anything too old and worn. You will spend too much time waiting for it to be fixed and not enough time driving it. get a PPI if you land on one you like. go to a real shop that deals in the year car you are looking at. ASK because there are plenty of PA guys here... where to go. Think about spending time learning to drive the car with an instructor. That sounds funny but you would be surprised REALLY SURPRISED what these cars can do... be safe, learn from a pro. Post potential cars on here... we will pick them apart and you wont ever have to actually buy one lets see... what else dont rush in, there are lots of these... read, learn and be ready.. dont be scared, just ready. Maintenance costs money, remember it was ~$100k car when new and repairs reflect that. 5% repair bill on a $30k car is $1500... on a $100k car its $5k! you dont want to buy something that needs work in other words and use the PPI as a negotiation tool. Get prices quoted for any issues and leverage that during the price talks. Private is as good as a dealer sometimes but for you if you can find a CPO car then you have less to worry about and more happy driving. Dealers most likely a better choice though IIRC CPO's are transferable (ask) others will have ideas and just listen... they are not all jerks, some of them have air cooled cars !!

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Air/oil cooled or water cooled? Someone else asked this but it is worth repeating. Cab or coupe? Another good question posted by someone who beat me to the punch. Most of what follows works for air/oil cooled, water cooled and coupe or cab. Start out looking for cars that are in your budget. You can use one of the several online sites to get current values of various 911s. Sites like www.kbb.com , www.nada.com and there are a few others. You can look over the ads for cars in Excellence (and at www.excellencemag.com IIRC) and at www.autotrader.com , in the PCA magazine and here of course. Get a feel for where in the market your budget puts you and then look for the best example you can find/afford. To help you know what to look for, and what to avoid, Excellence magazine runs market updates on the various flavors of 911s from the very first models to the most recent ones every once in a while and several independent Porsche mags in the UK run buyers guides on the various models. GT Porsche, Total 911 and 911 & Porsche World are 3 that come to mind. Check out back issues and consider buying one or two that have buyers guides for the cars you are interested in. You want to develop a good appreciation for these cars and what to look for when shopping to avoid wasting your time or money on a car you paid too much for or worse shouldn't have bought in the first place. Avoid sinking your entire budge on the car. Keep some money in reserve. Generally one wants to have set aside 10% of a used car's purchase price to cover "things". If you spend every nickel on the car and say the water pump goes out -- hey it happens even with the best PPI in the world -- then the car sits while you round up the money to have the car fixed. If you do a good job on checking out a car and pick a good one and with a bit of luck that 10% set aside remains set aside. Don't rush. There are plenty of cars and even though you will lose a car there's always another car. Learn all you can and get a feel for the market and prices. Shopping for a Porsche (used or new) is the most fun ever, next to driving one you bought. Sincerely, Macster.

Very sound advice from all of you.

As a very long time Porsche owner, I would suggest that you be patient when it comes to looking for that special car. (Half the fun is the hunt!) Remember, in today's economy many cars are suddenly available because of economic reasons, and not because the car was too expensive to fix. The ones you can pick from are statistically better than ever before. If you have budgeted $40K remember that you should spring for a PPI. It's worth every cent because you're not mechanically inclined and known nothing about these cars. It's a way for you to ease your mind. Buy a book or two on the 911. A friend of mine wrote a very good book on the 911--the 911 Buyers Guide (Randy Leffingwell) and it summarizes the differences from one year to the next. There is much to be said for the old adage, "buy the newest Porsche that you can afford." Remember to keep some reserve for tires and things that just didn't get done by the PO. For example, let's say you find a choice car, with few miles on it. You buy it, but you notice that the tires (because it only has 12,500 miles on it!) are older than about 7 years. Spring for all new rubber. The car will perform so much better. If you visit with the local region of the Porsche Club of America those nuts will talk your head off about what to look for and what to avoid in a 911. And it bears hearing! Take them along to look at the car(s). I used to do that for many friends and it was always fun trying to figure out what was wrong with the car! Be patient.

Patience like they say. Good luck. Check under the front luggage compartment carpet for denting and such from bottoming out. Also check the front platic bumper covers under side for how well it is attached and if the attachment points are good on the underside. Some guys ram parking curbing and break the bumper points loose. If the front bumper to trunk lid has a gap there is a good chance that is the problem. Front bumper covers aren't cheap

Newest you can afford. With that budget you could find a 997

For $40k, I would try and find a base model 2006 coupe that has a CPO warranty from a dealer. Since you don't have any(limited) mechanical apptitude, buy the newest Porsche you can get for the money. And a Certified Preowned Warranty would be great as well. Establish a good reputation with the Dealer and also find a local independant P-car specialist in your area as well.

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Think about what you really like and need in a car. I agree one can't drive every example and even so a test drive is not the same as living with a car. To consider a Cab I think one would have to really be into top down driving. (Side note: I bought an 02 Boxster not because I was a big fan of top down driving but because it was the best mid-engine car around (well, in my price range). I used the top down a bit at first but it has been years since I have lowered the top. I tried top down driving but don't really care for it.) Unless you plan on driving the car in very bad -- winter -- weather two wheel drive I believe a better choice. Costs less to buy. Less to go wrong. Less service required. The gas tank is less complicated. Car weighs less and all other things being equal will deliver better gas mileage. Generally a used car buyer is more concerned about price and condtion and less concerned about exterior and interior colors and options. No one expects a used car buyer to buy an ugly car with polka dot seat covers but you want to find a good used car. I would be very hesitant to own a low mileage car out of some kind of warranty. (Another aside: I bought (from a Porsche dealer) an 03 Turbo over a year ago with 9500 miles. Car came with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty. At 30K miles the tranny (6-speed) was found to be leaking fluid. Car was covered by CPO warranty. New (replacement) transmission ordered and installed by dealer. CPO warranty covered the entire cost of this along with replacing a noisy idler roller bearing and a failed radiator fan which also required the radiator be replaced. Had that CPO warranty not been in effect I could have spent the better part of $10K on the car I bought about a year before. This $10K would have amounted to nearly 20% what I paid for the car ($57.7K) and would have taken some of the joy out of the ownership experience.) As for warranties, the only one I trust would be a CPO warranty. The new one that came into being circa middle to late 2008 better than the previous CPO warranty. You have to narrow down what you want to consider. Then learn all you can about the particular model line and years. Research the market and prices. Then focus on finding the best example you can find and buying the car for a price your research indicates is a good price. Avoid using the word "fair" in discussing car prices/values. My expeirence is "fair" is only used to by a seller in an attempt to get me to pay a higher price for a car than market research indicates the car is worth. I've never had a seller lower a car's price cause its higher initial price was "unfair". (I did buy a new car at below market by stressing how my below market offer was "fair" over and over to the dealer. Hehehehe. 'course, I had facts/figures to back up my offer that the market was down and if he wanted to sell a car to me it was my offer or no deal.) You must develop the ability to evaluate used cars to the point that if you can't reject the car for any reason and if you believe you can swing a deal for the car then with the stamp of approval of a professional PPI you make a serious attempt to buy the car. You can look at 100 cars but you should only PPI one car, the one you end up buying. Couple of things: 1) Price is not a fact, only an opinion; 2) There is always another car; 3) If a car or deal feels wrong, walk away: See #2. Happy shopping! Sincerely, Macster.

[QUOTE=Macster;7892214] Couple of things: 1) Price is not a fact, only an opinion; 2) There is always another car; 3) If a car or deal feels wrong, walk away: See #2. QUOTE] Ah! The golden rules of car buying.

Thanks everyone for all the advice! Its amazing what I have learned in 1 day with all of your help. I've already adjusted my budget down to $36,000 to leave me with $4,000 for maint/repairs. I'm really looking forward to starting the search. I did have a couple more questions if you don't mind Is it a buyers market now for 911's? Wasn't sure if sales of used Porsche's were hit as bad by the economy Are the market values for 911's quoted on Edmunds and KBB pretty accurate? Using this to judge what models I should focus on. Is there anyone from PA/NJ/DE (I'm in Bucks County PA) on this forum who wouldn't mind me giving them a call to discuss local dealers/etc? Thanks! Steve

These would be my choices: Air-cooled - 993 C4S Water-cooled - 996 TT

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Lowering your budget is good and bad. It's good because it will help you prepare for some maintence items that may be needed. It's bad because it takes you out of 997 territory (997 are the 2005 and newer models). IMO, a base 997 911 coupe with a CPO is your best bet. Turbos are more expensive to maintain. CPO cars don't need any maintenence at the time of purchase or immediately after. other cars might. Do you have any headlight opinions? This isn't a punchline. The 996 had 2 "generations", the Mark 1 (1999 to 2001) cars have a different front headlight look than the Mark 2 (2002 to 2004) models. The Mark 2 had the 996 turbo headlights as standard. The 997 goes back to a headlight design of the traditional 911. You need to look at all 3. I live in the area (northern Delware) and Porsche of the Mainline and Don Rosen Porsche are the big dealers in the area. Winner Porsche in Newark, DE is right down the street from my house. They have a few really nice 2004 996 911 on the lot at absolutely ridiculous prices. Well north of your budget with no CPO. If you want a great sales guy, Randall Boyer at Porsche of the Main Line is very professional and knowledgeable. Never bought a car from there but I spoke with him many times.

You can't assume a CPO car requires no maintenance/scheduled services. My 03 Turbo received new tires (due to age) but did not receive a much needed alignment. Also, the brake fluid was due to be changed and the oil/filter was due. I had called around and from various dealers in the area learned what services the car had had and when so I was not unaware of these necessary services when I went to buy the car. Remember: CPO means "certified *probably* ok". Sincerely, Macster.

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Holt Motorsport has an excellent collection of aircooled cars for sale and he is very knowledgable. Granted he is not cheap but worth your while for doing homework. http://www.holtmotorsports.com/

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+1 Another link of interest to you: http://www.excellence-mag.com/resour...ide/1041874889

One more general question. Up until now, I was planning to buy without looking at loans. Can anyone provide some guidance on: How old of a Porsche will banks offer normal loans on? How old of a Porsche will a Porsche dealer finance? Any help appreciated. Thanks!

All the advice is so good, this should be sticky. I have owned my 996TT for about 2 months. The car is great, but I have had some minor cosmetic problems (easy to fix). But if I was more patient I certainly could have waited for a garage queen. This one seemed to have been loved and driven by at least one of it's prior owners.

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It depends. Most P-car dealers won't keep cars older than 7 years on their lots do to the fact that consumers can't get financing. There are some great alternatives. Penfed.com (Pentagon Federal credit union) offers 60 month loans at 2.9% for cars up to 10 years old. You don't have to be a member of the military to join (You may have to pay some membership fee). They have some of the best rates out there. It's always best to have multiple financing options before you even go to the dealer. Offering to pay "in cash" isn't the most lucrative deal for the dealer. If they can get you to finance through "their" bank, they get a cut of the interest.

I've owned 5 Porsches and will give you my take. Drive or ride in a coupe and a cab for at least 15 minutes. Now, your next decision will be what color of top do you want? And the hardtop is nice but generally is just a storage PITA. Yes it's a buyers market KBB prices are greatly inflated and used by dealers to justify high prices. KBB should be totally be dismissed. Industry wide NADA is generally considered much more accurate. Just be aware trade in prices in NADA are generally at least 20-35% higher than any dealer will actually pay for a trade even if near mint. Dealers like to be able to sell at "Trade in" prices and make a good profit. A great resource is 996 Essential Companion, by Adrian Streather. It has everything you want to know about them, also about 6 pics of my last 996:-) A CPOed car from a P-dealer may be your best buy, but with a very thourogh PPI on a nice car may work as well. It may be in your best interest to purchase a mechanical warranty if you don't work on your own cars. Good Luck

-Is it a buyers market now for 911's? Wasn't sure if sales of used Porsche's were hit as bad by the economy Somewhat, though the pool of available cars has shrunken some. Many of the smoking good deals are gone. Still, a good time to be in the market. -Are the market values for 911's quoted on Edmunds and KBB pretty accurate? Using this to judge what models I should focus on. No. They seem to run somewhat high compared to actual selling prices. That said, these are not cars that lend themselves to exacting values beyond a range of a couple of thousand dollars. Condition, color, miles and options can make a tremendous difference in a way they do not with a used Camry. That said, those values are not a bad starting point for comparison and are as valid as any others short of actual selling prices. Ultimately the last thousand or so of price just comes down to what you are willing to spend and what the owner is willing to accept. It is not based on some known value.