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YOUR RESEARCHDumb 996 Owners
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Replace after i paid a premium
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I kind of felt like a moron when thing after thing needed to be replaced after I paid a premium for more low mileage 996.
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Got a text from seller last night indicating the battery has been replaced under warranty and everything is working fine.
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IMS bearing was replaced when he got the car at 85,000 miles.
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We actually changed the oil on his Cayenne Diesel the day before, in my shop.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Transmission, clutch and RMS were replaced last year.
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My wife got her 996 because it was affordable and wanted to have a fun car she always dreamed of. She definitely did not get it for an investment. If it weren't for the bad press the car gets, she would not have it now.
So I offer my thanks for the bad press these cars get! Couldn't have bought one without it!
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I think I see what you're trying to say, but I don't think it was worded very well. It reads a bit like you're asking people to be dishonest, or just not offer any pricing advice. In actuality I think you're trying to say to stop offering pricing advice if you're not absolutely up to date on market values. Just because you did research several years ago into the value, doesn't mean that holds true today. So in actuality your perspective of the market may be outdated, and you're telling someone they need to offer less than a car is worth and potentially damaging the seller as a result.
I'd hate to see someone over pay for anything, especially something that could cost them a lot more in a short time because they where not informed...These are great cars and there's still good deals to be had, but buyer beware!
Remember the poor guy that payed top dollar for his low mile 996 and wound up needing a new motor within a couple of months? Wound up costing him over $50K real fast.
Edit,
I can think of at least 3 stories like this off the top of my head in the past couple of years. One was an AE with a Raby motor if I recall (I might be wrong)
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The pricing of these cars is ultimately what people will pay for them. Overprice your car and expect it to sit. I don't think people are underpricing their cars or selling too cheap. For whatever reason, they may just be pricing their car to get rid of it, so they post an aggressive price to get noticed and move the car. Others who have the time, patience or don't have the need to sell right away will price higher and play the wait and see game.
Right now most people on this forum and out in the market are saying the 996 is a great value. That's not devaluing the 996, it's doing the opposite. Ultimately it may drive demand and prices. However once the 996 creeps into 997 value, I don't think it's a fair fight. Same options, same mileage, same price on a 997 vs 996 and 90% will probably choose 997 out there. Our only hope is the 996 becomes a desirable outlier because of it's unique qualities, quirkiness and differences vs the more straightforward 997.
This is a good response and in my opinion, if you are buying one of these hoping it shoots up in value you probably bought the wrong car. That doesn't mean I don't hope they creep up in case I decide to sell one day but like you said if I had the choice between the 996 or 997 for what I paid for my 996 all things being equal I would get a 997.
Joey, aren't there some unstated assumptions here? For example:
If people offer fewer opinions that the cars are overpriced, then prices will go up?
996 owners bought their cars to achieve a higher price when they sell them?
996s will very soon jump in value the same as other 911s?
Prices should be much higher to keep the Honda / Mustang 5.0 crowd away from Porsches?
Discussing forum behavior is more important than discussing the cars?
What is it that's really bugging you?
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It does not seem like very long ago (early 2000's) that 964's were cheap and were the bargain 911. Wish that I had grabbed a few back then. Of course we all know what happened - IMS, and someone decided that they did not like the headlights, etc. etc. So now 15 years later 964 and 993 to my mind incredibly expensive for what they are, and 996 seem like a good value. But good value does not mean cheap - if a clean 996 is worth around $22 - $30k, and new they were $75k to $100+, that is pretty good retention. Consider a Mercedes or BMW at the same age and sticker price would be worth half what our Porsche's' are, unless it is something really rare and special. So I'm not sure what the point was that the OP was trying to make. I'm happy with mine, and what I paid for it. If it appreciates in time that is great but my retirement plans are not based on that happening!
Daryll
Hmmm, I wonder how much he paid for his 21K mile 996 and if it has anything to do with the post.
I kind of felt like a moron when thing after thing needed to be replaced after I paid a premium for more low mileage 996. Wonder if OP is feeling the same.
No rust on mine. My original plan was to buy something with 50-75K miles on it. I ended up buying something with 19K miles and paid a premium for it. Then I ended replacing a lot of things - things that likely would have already been replaced on a car that had been driven. So I essentially got penalized twice. A lot of you are probably enjoying all the benefits at half my cost. Then again, some of you have had to go through rebuilds...
Well... That's one take I guess. Meanwhile I don't see these as in investment (if I did, I'd be a horrible investor). Instead I see them as an affordable entry point into 911 and I want to spread that word to as many enthusiasts as possible. The more folks showing up in 996 to track days, autox, etc in 996 the better. To that end, I'd never hesitate to give them my advice on pricing if they asked but with a big old "FWIW" caveat attached. The more they save on buying, the more they have left over for tires and entry fees. Cars are for driving. High fives all around
If my car drops in value so be it.
If it skyrockets to $100K, so be it.
I'm not selling it, so I don't care what the value does.
I could have made a quick $7000 flipping it when I bought it in 2017, instead I sold my BMW at an $8000 depreciation.
I could still probably make that $7000 profit, although I've put a lot of money into modifying it.
I've had lots of nice cars in my life, and after a year or so they lost some of their "shine" to me.
Not this one, I enjoy owning it today
even more
than when I bought it about a year and a half ago.
This one is a keeper!
I came here to snoop around a little to see what the climate is like here. I looked at a 2001 C4 yesterday. Hope to close the deal this week.
Agree with your comments. This is no investment. Well, other than my (and my wife's) personal enjoyment.
Don't know enough about them yet to offer any advice. That's why I've been checking here for a couple of days. Was hoping to come across some technical threads. How to fix x, what to look out for, etc.
So what's the first thread to greet me today? How dumb 996 owners are! I hope the rest of you aren't kunts too...
Technical assistance wise, I think 996 community is super helpful. I don't think they get anymore knowledgeable than Ahsai.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...wn-engine.html
From my short time here this is a solid community. I think because of the fact that this is not one of the most popular generations for 911 it creates a tighter knit community of enthusiasts.
Owning a Porsche and owning stocks can't be related as even remotely similar. You can take a position of short or long in owning stocks, but owning a Porsche for the sake of investment is a generally losing proposition. There are exceptions to the case of course. If you own a James Dean special that was kept in a garage without ever seeing any open road, then you might have a winner there.
JOey...maybe sell yours in Canada....you will get more dollars...albeit Canadian ones, but you'll be able to convince yourself your investment paid off. Clearly he looks at these cars as an investment. I would say that he is definitely in the minority in this community. He's starting out from the wrong angle for most of the owners in here. Most of the people here seem to want to DRIVE their 996's, not cover them with a tarp and hope prices go up. Cars that are seeing regular use (many of you DD them) aren't really going to appreciate even if the market for cherry examples of a 996 rises. I don't mind if pricing stays "low". It will keep the market in these cars active, keep more on the street and in use, and likely keep aftermarket parts suppliers interested in the series and help to keep those prices lower.
Yeah. It is in pretty good shape and well maintained. Has 123k on the clock. Price is amazingly low. Don't want to jinx myself, but I withdrew a cashier's check today and hope to bring it home tomorrow (the car, that is).
C4 cab. Hardtop, as you can see. Looked at the car on Monday. Current owner had an issue with the key remaining in the lock cylinder. Was out of town for two weeks. Battery was totally dead. I arrived to look at the car and he had jumper cables to it, hooked to his truck. Just barely got a click when turning the key to the start position.
After messing with that for a while, I decided to get out my little jump pack. After about 10 minutes of fiddling with that, the engine turned over and then on about the fifth try, it started. Did I mention it was -15F that morning?
We thought we could take it for a drive, but the blower motor and wipers weren't working. Worse than that, the odometer and other informational lights were flickering. I assumed the alternator was struggling to put a charge in the battery. Decided not to go for a drive, but instead go to his local shop and let them see if they can thaw-out the battery and get it to charge. While there, we started to hear a sound from the engine that reminded me of water pump bearing. Could have been, and probably was alternator noise. Smelled of 'electrical smoke' when lifting the engine lid.
Got a text from seller last night indicating the battery has been replaced under warranty and everything is working fine. Also indicated he bought an ignition switch and will leave it in the car. We discussed a small decrease in the cost, if he couldn't get the key out.
IMS bearing was replaced when he got the car at 85,000 miles. Transmission, clutch and RMS were replaced last year. I guess he was experiencing a little grinding in the gears. Is that a common issue? Tires are less than a year old. I figure on doing a tune-up and replace all fluids as soon as I have a chance. Also figure the accessory belt, WP, pulleys, etc. should all be done soon. Will give everything a good look over. As mentioned, car looks very clean and cared for.
Car did run well and felt pretty good for the short time I had behind the wheel. I'm very excited. So excited, I keep thinking about it when I should be sleeping...
Sad that you feel the need to insult us because we disagree with your thoughts on this subject... But I disagree with your analysis. The investment in these cars is the pleasure we get out of them not the possible investment in money. The return you get on a stock is money, not pleasure. It may please you when a stock goes up in value but money is only good for the things you spend it on which over and above lifes necessities is enjoying life! Investing in cars is much riskier than stocks. At least at this level. Some of us can flip these cars for a profit but that's not really what this forum is about. Unless I guess we make it like that. We are enthusiasts that enjoy sharing our pleasure and knowledge of these wonderful "toys" .
No. I do my own PPI. I do all my own wrenching and can fix anything this side of rust. Have not let a dealer touch any of my cars since I took one of my Talons in for a recall issue. They screwed that up! Before that....was never...
Correction: I bought a Honda motorcycle when I was in my early teens. Had this grand idea of letting the dealer keep it in top form. Maybe a year after I bought it, I took to them for a tune up. I think it was $50. That got me thinking that I could learn how to do whatever it was they did, and just pay for parts. Been doing it ever since. Cheap - yes, but I've learned some skills, too.
Mike,
Thanks for the advice. This car will be on the lift as soon as I get it home. There will be a thread (multiple?) more specific to the car.
There will be lots of photos. And requests for resources.
I think I'll title it: "966s for DUMMIES"
I love it. My wife's friend kept using lines from that movie as a part of normal conversation. It really wasn't on my radar. Has become one of my all-time favorite movies.
Subscribed
I always get Porsche motoring value advice from a user with 140 posts and 13 months of experience.
OBTW, on Oct 3 last year Apple was worth $232/share. It's at $154 today. Maybe not the best simile to use? Just saying.
Never said a dealer...I wouldn't either. Second set of eyes at a reputable Indie can identify things someone with less experience on this car might miss...and can run full computer diagnostics that a competent DIY wrencher might not have access to.
Regardless...best of luck, its a nice ride!
For that matter, he's missing the point that we aren't buying stock in Porsche...and our purchases have NOTHING to do with Porsche's success as a brand or company...we're buying used cars on the secondary market. You can't buy "used" stocks in Apple.
I didn�t buy my car for an investment. Perhaps the stock analogy wasn�t the best and I agree the post itself was haphazardly put together and in poor taste. I don�t have buyer�s remorse and I don�t feel as though I overpaid for my car. I didn�t mean to insult anyone, I was frustrated with a phenomenon which I view to be detrimental to the community and acted on that before I thought it through.
Obviously these cars, or any car one intends to drive, aren�t an investment on which one can plan on getting a monetary return: the ROI, as mentioned in the thread, is the enjoyment one gets from the ownership experience. Which I have to agree is every bit about the people as it is the cars. Every Porsche person who�s been with the brand for a while has been awesome and I hate to think I�ve offended that crowd.
I WAS NOT encouraging dishonesty of any kind! I thought that was clear, but the post itself probably drew attention away from statements along those lines. I don�t care what anyone does in here and I will not attempt to give advice about how to buy or sell anything ever again in here. The majority of you have a fundamentally different view of this topic than me and I will just agree to disagree.
I apologize to everyone I insulted and will refrain from offering my opinion if it is outside of the general consensus in the forum.
Sorry, Joey, then what, exactly, does keeping prices low do the detriment of the community (other than maybe lowering one's resale when one goes to flip in a year or two?). How does it affect your Enjoyment quotient. I'm still missing your point if it wasn't about ROI on an "investment". Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't think you've clarified anything with this statement and I'd like to understand if I can.
Thanks.
Again, I�m going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. If you�d like to PM me about it, I�d be more than happy to explain. But my opinion about this is just not going to do anything but cause an argument and I�m tired of arguing.
There's a big difference between an argument and a discussion about differing opinions. If you have a well thought out (and properly articulated) opposing view point, most here would agree that is a good thing.
Absolutely. You are 100% spot-on. Would love to have had someone get a good look at it, that actually knows what to look for. And my comments about dealers should have been expanded to include indies. I do support a few of those when it comes to installing cages or performing precision welding. Otherwise, it's all Team Harco. This car is going to be checked over in every way. With the power of Rennlist, there will be nothing left to chance.
I wanted to have a friend join me on the initial look. We actually changed the oil on his Cayenne Diesel the day before, in my shop. He's going to take me to the car tomorrow. He will be heading up to the Sno*Drift Rally and will use his Cayenne as one of the sweep vehicles. Outstanding timing.
I have to agree with you there. It�s bad taste first of all. Second of all, it�s rude.
That said, the 996 has needed some help over the years by caring and loving Porsche fans, to pickup a beaten down car when others have kicked the 996 around after it had fallen down. So it�s not a bad thing to tell folks how much value these cars have: it�s the best value right now for any high end sports car in the world.
These cars will be worth $30k in 5-10 years.
I think this is the major disconnect between what you are arguing and what everyone is confused about. There are plenty of places in this forum where we discuss car values, particularly when it comes to critiquing buying/selling of these cars. Someone wondering if X dollars is a good price for a car and being told they could get the same car for less money is not an indication that the 996 community wants to keep prices low on these cars. It's more than we are interested in making sure a fellow enthusiast is paying a fair and equitable amount for their vehicle. Telling someone that $23k is too high for a particular car because there are 4 more available that are just like it for $3k less is not trying to keep prices low. The prices are already low in this scenario, because there is readily available comparable inventory at a lower price point.
See, discussions can be fun!
Take a look at what's highlighted. The first, just stands out. Maybe these terrible results should tell you something. You're over it? You are providing contrary evidence.
You
are going to teach us? That's precious.
Sweet! Talk about ROI...
I think Scott's follow-up was good. I read his other posts, and all are fine... no hint of that attitude that came through in his first post in this thread. Scott, it's a good bunch of folks here.
Can a mod just delete this thread? I am very sorry that I posted it and for pretty much every reply I�ve posted since. I�m just going to delete all my posts in here and move on. Again, I apologize.
I have no doubts of this. I've been here (RL) a while. Calling out the bull **** just helps to keep things on the level. There are some guys that just want to be the smartest in the room, no matter where they are. Helping them to understand their methods may need some refinement, may actually work.
Then again....
Very well said. I buy and sell collector cars(and boats and planes) as an avocation. I was able to make a bit of money on the 996, and I might jump in again. However, it is not a wise investment strategy, as it is rather fractious market. I've opined plenty on the value, or price of the various 996s, and I will do it again. Commentary on the price or value of various 996s is something I enjoy, and also I feel a sense of contribution, even if it may affect the overall market of the marque. Further, as others have mentioned in various ways, the value of the 996 is less in it's fiduciary position, and much more in the ephemeral joy, and fun of owning an undervalued(or under-priced) toy.
I re-read my post... it wasn't clear.... the "attitude" and older posts I mentioned referred to Joey, not you. Was writing from my phone while at the tire shop (track weekend in 3 days!
). Sorry for any confusion.
I would not be able to fulfill a 40 year dream to own a 911 if it wasn't for the 996 and todays market!
I wonder if Joey would be in one if it was $50K when he bought his? I think not...
Buy a 996 (any one that floats your boat)
Drive it in the manner that pleases you.
Keep it in good repair.
Dont think you are going to make money.
If you can plan around the annual costs of the third bullet, then you are in good shape. Even if your $20-30k 996 loses much of its value along the way, if you could afford it and had fun? Bingo you win!
The corollary to this is if you must borrow to buy a 15+yr old car, you may not be able to afford the third bullet, and then you�ll be forced to sell for less than you owe. Pain results.
996�s are best for cash buyers who can afford to fix them or let them sit while they decide what to do. It�s not a rich man�s game, but also not for someone who isn�t flexible with respects to car expenses.
I heard Warren Buffet is going to IPO shares of his new stock BRK-996 soon. I�m gonna clear out my 401k early, pay the penalties and taxes and buy all the 996s I can; the OP told me to via PM.
It's all good. Though you're right, there was a little clarity issue. We're on the same page. Enjoy the track.
Same here. I am still in a daze. Can't believe my good fortune. In the right place at the right time...
Put me on this list also. I've wanted a 911 since about 1980 and I suspect there are
many
folks who've been able to take advantage of the current market prices for the 996. The last few months have certainly put a smile on
my
face.
LOL, Doc, I have. Mebbe you should brush up some, too. It is not the same concept as he was driving at. Sure, there is a secondary market for securities, but the underlying value of the stock being purchased in a call, sold in a put, granted as an option, or acting as the base of a derivative does not go down because the stock wasn't sold/bought/granted at IPO or because that stock certificate has traded hands 2000 times.
Depends on how many shares, and what the spread is when executed. I assure you, the price can be greatly affected by a whale with the ability to invest heavily on a marginal position. Not me, but Buffet or someone like him can affect the price either direction. Anyway, I get your point, and generally agree with it. The fiduciary considerations of a 996 are not the same as a stock, but swaying the market can be done for both if a big enough lever is avail.
OBTW, I have taught undergrad finance, and econ so I think I'm ok on the brush-up part.
This describes me to a T. Wanted a 911 since before I could drive; everytime I would get close to pulling the trigger life got in the way. In the meantime prices keep climbing to crazy levels (to me) for the air cooled cars. The 996 fit what I could afford and is still a real 911 experience. If the buy-in was $50k I would not own one unfortunately - still have 2 out of 3 kids to get through college!!
Daryll
Me too
I remember sitting in a 1982 911SC YEARS ago and thinking, man I can actually fit in this thing... (I'm 6'6"). I've wanted a 911 ever since.
Years later I drove a 986 and then a 986S and realized that if the 986 cars were that good, I could only imagine what a 996 was like! I refused to drive a 911 because I knew deep down my soul would hurt too much until I could actually buy one.
A couple years back, my best friend bought a 997 C4S and I took it for a spin... I knew it was all over. Stumbled across my '99 996 a couple months back for $8K and I couldnt be happier.
If you'll excuse me, I'll head to the garage to work on that piece of **** now
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