Graham NC **BEWARE** BAD SELLER

I recently had my wallet emptied to the tune of $350 while attempting to buy a car from ERIK KNIGHT of GRAHAM, NORTH CAROLINA. He had a black 1999 Carrera Aerokit listed on Craigslist for $20,000. The ad has been deleted but i have a copy of it that I saved. This might be a long read but I want I dealt with him for over a month. I first contacted him on April 16th about his car and asked him general questions about it's condition. We discussed maintenance history and the options sticker etc. I told him I was interested and lived in Florida and that I would be going through my credit union which he said was fine.On the first day of our conversation I asked him about getting a PPI done and he said he had no issue with it. He was currently out of town so I called around for some shops to do a PPI when he got back into town. He then casually mentioned that another interested party had already had a PPI done and to touch base at the end of the week to see if the car had sold. I agreed since having a PPI done gives them first dibs but i said at that time if they don't buy it that I want to be next in line. A few days later I contacted him to see what the situation was and he informed me that his buyer had not contacted him in a few days and was not going to hold the car for them. I told him that if I paid for a PPI I would expect a first right of refusal. In the next few days he deleted the ad and I hadn't heard from him and he had not sent me any of the invoices he said he would send so I messaged him to see if he had sold the car. He replied that his buyer never called him. A few more days went buy without contact and I asked him straight up if he was still selling a car, and he said he was burned out and frustrated with the process and he pulled the ad and was going to sit on the car for awhile because he was too busy with family to sell it at the moment. (April 27) I moved on. On May 9th I got a text out of the blue telling me he was ready to sell the car and was giving me the first chance before he reslisted it. I said yes I was interested and sent him this text. He agreed to those terms and we got to work discussing his schedule. I found a great shop called Millersport to do the PPI and Erik called them to set up the PPI. This was on a Friday May 11th. There was a phone conversation where I asked him if the price was negotiable pending the PPI outcome and he said it was firm. He then said if I did not like it he would relist the car and move on which I thought was odd. The next day he relisted the ad. I asked him about it and he said he wasn't sure where I stood but he would give me first right of refusal after a PPI. I asked him for new photos of the car which I had not yet received. I found out through some googling that all of the craigslist photos were 2 years old and from the dealer he bought the car from. He sent me far away photos of a dirty car and promised to send more when he had time to wash it. I didn't hear from him all weekend but Sunday night (May 13) he emailed me an exterior and interior video of the car. The exterior was still as dirty as the pictures, to the point where I could not tell the condition of the paint. It looked like a lot of rock chips but he said it looked fine. he then added the new pictures he sent me to his craigslist ad. The PPI was scheduled for Tuesday the 15th. I called and setup payment via credit card. It went pretty well and Chuck at Millersport was a stand up guy and very thorough. The car checked out reasonably well with only some minor concerns. One of which was bald rear tires. Erik had sent me an invoice from 8/17 showing 2 new tires installed. Less than 6000 miles ago. I called Erik to discuss the PPI and we talked about how nice and thorough Chuck was and Erik said he was surprised at the tire wear and would not buy those tires again if he was keeping the car. He told me on the phone that if I didn't want the car he had another person interested . I told him I wanted to buy it. He agreed to take off $400 and we arrived at a final sale price of $19,600 over the phone. I emailed him my contact at the credit union, and I emailed my credit union with all of the info I had and put them in touch. I don't think they ever talked though. Late Tuesday night, the same day as the PPI Erik texted me to see when I planned on coming up. I said Saturday the 19th (the same date I told him originally). He then informed me he was flying to Chicago on Friday night for a week and would not be there. This was not good as my work schedule is tight and I was already on the schedule to work the following weekend. In a haste I asked if his wife could handle the transaction while he was out of town and he said he would talk to Tamara (bank contact) and see about doing the transaction remotely and I could just pick up the car. This was a huge red flag for me as I still didn't know the exact condition of the car. I told him nothing would be final until I get there. I was a little mad at his last minute schedule conflict since I was very upfront about the timeline from the beginning. I sent him a text including a screenshot of my original text. This was less than 24 hours after the PPI. He canceled the deal. He then blocked my number, as all future texts were green and not blue. I Called Chuck up because he had not processed my credit card yet or sent me a copy of the PPI. I felt bad bringing Chuck into it but since Erik had offered to "buy" the PPI from me I thought a good compromise would be if Chuck took payment directly from Erik. Chuck was writing up my PPI invoice when I called him and was super nice about the situation. He agreed to call Erik to discuss it and seek payment directly. Chuck talked to Erik and he refused to pay for it. I asked for a 24 hour grace period from Chuck so I could talk to Erik which Chuck obliged. However Erik did not return my voicemail or texts. I HAD A VERBAL CONTRACT TO BUY THIS CAR . If I found the car did not pass the PPI I would have paid for it and moved on no questions asked. However that is not what happened. This morning I sent Erik an Email after no contact since his original text canceling our deal: And Erik almost immediately sent me this reply. After receiving this email I called Chuck and told him to run my card, and thanked him for his time and apologized for getting him involved. He then informed me that Erik had called several times trying to get a copy of the PPI that I had paid for. Chuck would thankfully not give him a copy. And that is where it stands. I'm out $350 (3 hours labor plus an oil filter and qt of oil) for a PPI for a car that Erik is selling to someone else. He told me over the phone and in his text that he had other interested buyers. It's my belief one of them offered more money or it was an easier transaction for him and screwing me out of a PPI was never a concern for him. In fact he really wanted it for his new buyer apparently. BEWARE OF ERIK KNIGHT AND DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH HIM.

Ouch i have buy and sell over Craiglist and to a degree I share your frustration and it is exhausting when people are not up front or honor their word. I did see the ad before and thought that�s a really good deal. I would say next time see if someone local on Rennlist could help you look at the car on top of a PPI? I am an hour from graham but time allowed would have helped! On the other hand, I have to say about Chuck at millersport. He is a stand up guy. I visited him after buying my car. Very patiently answering my questions and in the end he didn�t charge me. This is after I had discussed on the phone with him and requested an hour of his time to go through the car with me. He had a 996 turbo and a 986 in the shop at a time. I wouldn�t hesitant to bring my car there although I prefer to learn and do it myself.

Sounds like he found someone willing to pay more money, or not require a PPI. I do agree what he did was a d&ck move, this is what you get with CL people. I surprised the shop allowed the car to leave without being paid, if he refused to release it that would have given you leverage. Realistically call it a $350 lesson, dude was a jerk, and the car wasn't meant to be. I also feel like you can find a better deal for $19,600 if it had bald tires and what appears to be paint issues. You are looking 8-10k to paint the car so I say you dodges a bullet cheap. Good luck in your hunt!!!!

Hey Rogazilla I really appreciate your offer, that's awesome. I really should have reached out here it just never occurred to me! And Chuck is super nice. If I lived there he would be my indy for sure. Horsepwr I agree I think I did dodge a bullet. I almost think Erik knew it too and was afraid that when I got there I would not be satisfied with the condition of the car. However Chuck did say it was above average. Though Chuck also sent me a picture of the front and there are definitely a lot of rock chips in the paint. It's all about what you can live with I suppose. I wasn't demanding perfection but I did want an honest look at what I was getting into. I didn't post up the last email Erik sent me where he tried to gaslight me by saying I was a liar and he never agreed to reimburse me for the PPI. Doesn't matter now. What is done is done. He thinks this is my fault and he deserved a copy of the PPI because he sat there for 4 hours while Chuck had the car. He can pound sand.

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Well unless I misread he clearly said he would reimburse you for it? Also I don't care if he sat there for two days, his choice to do so I am sure he could have dropped it off and picked it up. Look for someone who wants to sell the car, not stroke people. Just the fact he took it down and then put it back up is weird.

Playing devil's advocate.... My impression is that you were asking a lot of subjective questions that would be better answered by you seeing the car in person. In my experience the more questions a person asks the more they are trying to find reasons NOT to buy the car. A clean PPI should have been enough for you to buy the car. One thing that I think was totally off base was you asking Chuck to get the PPI money from the seller. You engaged Chuck to do the PPI...not the seller. Although the seller said he would reimburse you for the PPI, the "contract" was between you and Chuck. Did the seller do you wrong? Absolutely. However, no where did I see where you offered to put down a deposit. The seller took the path of least resistance. I'm not sure I blame him.

Bill that is an interesting perspective. I appreciate it however I will kindly disagree that asking questions is somehow a bad idea when attempting to buy a car long distance. And maybe you missed it, there is a lot of info in my post, but the PPI was clean, and I did agree to buy the car. We were negotiating when a good time would be for me to take delivery when he canceled the deal on me without warning. Asking Chuck to seek payment from Erik was not something I wanted to do. However when I saw that Chuck had not charged my card and Erik had offered to buy the PPI from me (and subsequently found out that Erik had contacted Chuck several times about getting a copy of the PPI) I felt that it was an avenue worth pursuing. There was a small window when I thought it might be a solid solution to an unfortunate and avoidable situation. If you read it through to the end you will see I did pay Chuck and did not leave him out to dry. I'm an honest person and I told Chuck from the beginning he would be taken care of and it was actually Chuck's offer to try to get Erik to pay after I told him what Erik did.

Bummer, but I too believe you can find a better car for the money...Lesson learned the hard way to no fault of yours. I wish you luck!

No seller is ever going to agree to pay for a ppi that the buyer is requesting. I�ve paid for several PPIs and if I like what I see I immediately make a deposit and get proper receipts for all transactions. Posting/buying cars on Craigslist is hit or miss at best.

I'd say you dodged a bullet here. Give it a few days for your blood pressure to return to normal, then read through your post and count the red flags. Now is the time that you need to take a breath and focus on finding the right car. After a miss like this, one can jump on the next thing with four wheels just to get 'er dun. Resist and and be patient. Good luck!

The PPI was good, and you should have just bought the car as it was very fairly priced. Asking him to wash the car was a bit much and likely set him off.

+1

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I thought I wrote this out to be clear but I guess I messed something up if people are getting the impression that I wasn't agreeing to buy this car. I asked for pictures of the car clean prior to the PPI appointment which I never got. After the PPI I still agreed to buy the car knowing full well the front of the car looked like ****. He had verbally agreed to sell me the car. The next morning without warning he canceled the transaction. At no time did I ever ask him to pay for the PPI. I asked him to reimburse me for it after he canceled our agreement and offered to buy the PPI from me for his other interested buyer.

As someone who tends to ask too many questions, I have learnt to show the money first. I am aware that I can tick people off asking waaay too many questions. Your constant insistence that it was not final until you see it in person, as a seller, I would have little faith in you from that statement. That would tell me that if someone local shows up with cash in hand, I would rather sell it to them that than to wait for you and it falls through. It sucks on both sides, but it would really suck for him if he has a buyer but he is waiting weeks to figure out the logistics with you. I am not a fan of long distance buyers. I would hate if someone traveled tremendous ways to get something I am buying and find something that is a deal breaker for them. When I was buying my car, the girl got mad at the number of questions I was asking as well, and I had to cut back my questions, ask only vital ones, keeping it simple, then made plans to go pick it up next day, 4 hours away. I had to make sure I didnt make her mad, because she was about to cut it off on me as well. I observed this same phenomena of asking too many questions recently with my father when he was getting quotes to change his roof. He finally found someone who was in the price range, and skill set he wanted, but he was asking so many questions, at the point of paying the deposit, the guy literally walked out. It is a double edge sword, but you have to think of it from the other perspective as well. I have had many people who promise that they would buy something I am selling and never show up, so from that, I tell people that I will not hold it. First one to show up with cash, or first one to leave a deposit, it is theirs. It sucks, but even a dealership will sell it if you have not left a deposit.

I'm 39 years old, but apparently I come from a generation that is much older. I believe in honesty and integrity. You're right about asking too many questions but there is no way in hell I'm going to part with 20 grand without finding out exactly what I'm getting. I was very close to buying $600 worth of plane tickets when he canceled the transaction. If that had happened this would be a whole other discussion. I didn't share the entire text but it should have been very apparent I was a serious buyer and not just some kid kicking tires. The right thing to do, if he really did have another buyer that beat me out, is to refund me for the PPI. That obviously isn't happening though so I have little remorse for this guy and I hope his new buyer flakes out like others in the past have. This car has now had 2 PPI's on it that I know of. I'm curious about the story on the first one. I suspect it's similar to mine.

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Oh yes, so so many red flags. But apparently that is the new normal. I haven't talked to a single person selling a 911 yet that was straightforward, honest, and easy to work with. I shouldn't have to pull teeth to get a seller to show me a clean car. It's not that hard. I'm easing up on my search now. Probably gonna spend the money finishing up my Jeep project.

Difficult buyers create bad sellers. Honestly your very lengthy overly long posts show you are more trouble than a used car sale is worth. Expecting a perfect 20 year old car is naive at best.

I feel bad for you that this fell through, but he didn't exactly say he was going to pay for the PPI. He said (abbreviated) "If one of the other buyers wants it, then send it over and I'll wire money for it." So his plan was likely to let them know he can provide a PPI for $350, the buyer probably said something to the tune of "Nah, I'll buy it for $19,000." And the seller thought "Damn, this is way easier than the other guy. Dude, sold." (Obviously I'm speculating here, but if he had other buyers, they were likely easier to work with than you if he dropped you like a bad habit.) It sucks but sometimes if you want to play 20 questions it's best done with a salesman who is doing this for a living and is going to grin through all of the foreplay. I understand that it's not hard. But this seller obviously believed that an easier sale would come along - and it did. P.S. You did say you wanted to buy the car but one of your last texts also said "I need to see it before making a final decision." So if someone walked up and offered cash, I know what deal I would have taken.

Consider yourself lucky you didn't fly there to look at the car and then refuse to buy it. He couldn't even take time to clean the car before selling it. You think there is a reason for that? The front is probably not the only thing he is hiding. Bald tires! Hey I drive my car hard but it never has bald tires.

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I'm not a difficult buyer. This post is lengthy because I'm calling someone out by name and wanted to present the facts I have. I never once expected the car to be perfect. I never expected him to pay for a PPI. I also never expected him to cancel the sale and block communication from me less than 24 hours after paying for it. Absolutely.

For an extra couple grand, pick up a 997. Here’s the 05 I bought a few months ago for $21,500. I was lucky. The owner is a good friend, so I knew the car. I still got a PPI. Point is, there are deals out there. Be patient. And yes, I should have cleaned the bird poop off the door. But hey, black isn’t a color, it’s a job.

Maybe the guys wife was making him sell it, and he didn�t want to. Here comes Mr. 21 questions and it annoyed him. You even wanted the guy to FaceTime with you! Point is, if you liked the car you should have given a deposit on it after ppi.

Michael I read your thread a couple of times having been on the selling and buying side of this hobby for a lot of years the recent ability to buy cars long distance thanks to technology has brought with it some new contractual items to consider. I really don't see any major issues either on the buyer or seller side of this story. Buyer has the right to request whatever he/she feels necessary to complete the purchase seller has the right to agree or refuse each request. Your error here was not establishing those deal items clearly in advance and IN Writing with a purchase agreement. If your final decision to buy car was to be based on personal inspection that should have been in agreement this way both parties know the deal requirements before entering the process. It has been mentioned here that using a Renn inspection helps clear up minor inspection needs and a PPI should be the LAST item on purchase checklist. In fact I write that sale is subject to an "acceptable" PPI condition report the acceptable phrase means acceptable to buyer that way if items found are beyond what buyer will accept sale does not need to go through or buyer and seller can negotiate the cost of issues found. Finally PPI is a buyer requirement and is done at buyers cost end of story. Buyer invests cost of inspection and seller invests time and effort to bring car into agreed shop. Rich

I gave up on your thread halfway through reading your texts, as I assume the seller did also. Buying a car long distance is no joke. You have to be prepared to lose your $$ PPI a car you've never seen. As well as be willing to walk away after investing time and money in a plane ticket. My suggestion for you is to exclusively focus on local cars if you are going to be that thorough over a 20k used car. By seeing the car first rather than photos, you can skip most of the back and forth trouble you were causing this guy. Can't blame the seller for taking a local deal from a guy with cash in hand if you were going through the runaround about dates and times. Especially without a deposit taken.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but $350 is just 911 table stakes. Half the fun is the hunt -- keep prospecting. I recently sold my BMW 330i ZHP. I had a guy that emailed me literally 17 times asking all kinds of questions, which I patiently answered. (This was after he initially threw out an insulting lowball offer.) He eventually agreed to pay my asking and I told him no. Meanwhile, the PO saw the car advertised and called me. I agreed to sell it back to him and hold it two weeks -- I was happy because I know he is a stand up guy and there would be no drama and I looked forward to seeing him at the airport. I didn't need a deposit and he didn't need a PPI. A few tips from a seller's perspective: Too much texting and not enough "pick up the phone." Point being, you need to connect with someone and make your decision up front. If you want a PPI, then put the skin in the game by scheduling it and flying up and sitting with the car those 4 hours if necessary. Why would the seller contact your bank on your behalf? When the PPI was back, wire the funds which should take <2 hours to settle, or bring a cashier's check made out for the full purchase price. From a recent buyer's perspective -- Get a PPI if you must, but don't expect to use one as a negotiating tool. The bottom of the 911 pricing curve is a seller's market. As a buyer that wants a PPI, I would present my offer this way -- based on the facts, I'll pay $x contingent on an acceptable PPI. Good luck! There are about 174,950 other 996s out there. You'll find another soon. ps..."It's not just the cars, it's the people." It's a pretty small world in the sports car universe. I get that you're frustrated, but you might reconsider calling this guy out by name on the intarwebs. It was just a missed connection. This is supposed to be fun, don't invest any more emotionally into it.

I see a lot of you saying asking too many questions is annoying and I have to disagree. As a buyer you should ask all the questions you deem needed to make the informed decision on a product. If the seller gets annoyed they either do not want to sell it that bad, or they are hiding something. I think the only difference here is you were asking via text, email, smoke signals etc and not in person saying " Im standing here with 20gs cash in my pocket, now answer these questions, please." When I bought my car, I spent almost 2.5 hours with the dude talking, asking questions, getting shown the car but the difference was I had cash in his face. When I started asking questions via text before going to him, he was reluctant. Remember CL is full of scammers. I drove 2hrs and he was happy to give me his undivided attention. I went home a Porsche owner. Done and done!

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That bit is so annoying... hate these scums...

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As a seller on CL, I put in my ad that "I'm happy to correspond via text after an initial phone conversation. Please call me if you are interested."

Interesting thread. I have also been on both sides of the coin, and while from a buyer perspective you want your questions answered, etc. sometimes this can irritate the seller. The main reason is usually there is a buyer that will just flat wire money with no questions asked (not the smartest thing mind you) and that is what you are competing with. From a seller's side I have a story on selling my wife's BMW Z. We had the car a almost since new and it was approaching 100k miles so we decided to sell it vs giving it away to a dealer on trade in. This car was not worth very much even though it was in perfect condition. I had a guy call who asked a lot of questions, a lot, a lot more that the OP did in fact. Then he bitched about the last car he looked at and how it was misrepresented, etc. etc. He wanted a PPI done on the car and honestly for me, it wasn't worth my time to drive it over an hour away and have some hack dealer mechanic poke and prod all over my wife's very nice car, so I politely declined. He went bananas and I basically had to hang up on him. He kept yelling he was trying to protect me too by having it done so he didn't have to "come after me" etc. if something went wrong lol (not the way to approach a seller EVER). Anyway long story short I found a lady who called me from across the country the next day, flew in and paid full price and was tickled to death to have such a nice, well cared for Z car she had been looking for. Point is, whenever I sell something, anything, if I get a sense the buyer is a PITA in ANY way, I won't sell it to them, even if they offered me more money than I was asking (has happened several times on specialty cars). In the end it isn't worth the hassle to deal with a high maintenance buyer, period. I suspect the seller of this car figured the OP was one of those people right or wrong unfortunately.

Kudos to the OP for paying for the PPI, yes, this is a crummy situation, but it probably turned out for the best for the OP. There will be another one. Take a step back and then dive back in again! Best of luck. FYI, I buy and sell items on craigslist, and I get awesome deals, and the people who buy from me get awesome deals with an expert communicator and I price my items to sell, so they are usually gone in days, including cars.

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Bingo!

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I think the same guy sent me over a dozen e mail messages about a used set of wheels for a 996 while I was unavailable on an international flight. He sent me a nasty note in the end telling me how irresponsible and what a bad seller I am. I just never bothered to try and contact a guy like this. When I encounter a irritating buyer, I just raise the price accordingly. If I were to sell my 996, I'd probably start out around the 20k point, but the OP, I'd need at least 25k for it to even be worth the hassle. Of course, that's just my opinion. These are used cars, and far too many buyers have better than new expectations. Even new cars aren't perfect in most cases.

So you discovered that the images in the ad were 2 years old, the seller could not produce satisfactory photos depicting an accurate condition of the car and you went ahead and committed to a PPI?!

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+1. I've sold over 10 cars on craiglist and I've learned to immediately recognize the potential problem buyers. Asking a billion pointless ADHD questions on the older used car is #1 red flag for me. The question hound turns into the guy who calls you a week later asking to help pay for whatever part just broke, then posting a same forum thread saying how he got screwed by the seller. I sold my last car on Ebay, my rules were clear. No ppi after the auction ends, non refundable deposit within 24 hours, car must be picked up within a week after auction ends and full balance paid in person. Ppi was available to do for anyone during the auction time and so was the in person car inspection. After the auction ended and you are the highest bidder- you bought the car. Period.

this thread distinguishes neither buyer nor seller........... And serves as a warning to all about dealing with drama queens.

I bought my car long distance, and it was kind of a pain for both him and me. Right before I flew out, I got super paranoid and asked him to cold start it for me on Facetime in case it was ticking. He did it, but I think he was annoyed that I may be dropping out. Once I got out there though, the transaction went smooth as can be. One thing I did that you did not was, as soon as the PPI came back clean, I FedEx'ed him a deposit check. It wasn't even 10 percent, but I think it showed that I was definitely buying the car. I sent him a picture of the FedEx receipt after I mailed it. Would I be out this money if he turned out to be a scammer? Sure, but I was also asking him to possibly turn down a local buyer with cash in hand.

Wow! The buyer was a royal pain in the ***! Asked questions like he was buying a 2018 911. Expected me to stop everything in my life to respond to his every request. Insisted on having a 3rd party PPI, which I obliged to drive to (not pay for) after I provided him a stack of maintenance/service via email and even put him in touch with my local mechanic that serviced the car since I purchased it. As we all know, nothing is definite until cash is on the table, and I was working OT to reply to this clown. If I didn't respond to his text or email within 2-seconds he panicked. This is my fourth Porsche, 3rd 911, and I never ever experienced a potential transaction like this one, even selling to a woman (no offense to the ladies). This is why most people trade their cars in and lose money, because dealing with this crap with jerks is exhausting, especially when they don't know what they are looking for and get educated on forums only. I'm glad some responses realized that even though only "some" of the correspondence was represented, for someone who had to spend hours asking questions and then spending the same amount of time to document and post to show other legitimate Porsche owners what he went through to enter the 911 ownership did not go his way, y'all should have considered the other side. Obviously he was a newbie to the Porsche world. I offered to offer the 3rd party PPI to other potential buyer(s) to help him out. The mechanic offered to give me a copy of the PPI, becuase of my sacrific and acknowledged that that way he got the report for the money and I did for my time. Remember, there is often two sides to every story and this is an example. My advice to all who pre-judged before knowing both sides...get ALL the facts before you pass judgement. I would have still sold him the car, but one of his last text messages about "my" schedule change at the 11th hour was the straw that broke the camel's back. Life happens, and he should have been more polite and professional in understanding that. Now, this great car will go into someone else's garage and he will have to keep driving his Honda Civic to work. Yup, I'm the seller. And no, I didn't have previous PPI done nor sell the car to someone else for more. I have to start all over again. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DON'T SELL THIS GUY A CAR!!!

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Well this just got interesting.... 0hQyd5L.gif

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Always good to hear both sides...Good luck to both of you!

I'm glad the seller chimed in here. That paragraph he wrote is more communication than I've received since paying for a PPI and AGREEING TO BUY THE CAR. I can't really address every single post here but for me, it boils down to just being a decent person. Decent people don't wait for someone to spend $350 on a PPI, agree to sell the car, then make a last minute change to their availability and then say "oh, I'm not selling you a car now, bye" and then cut off all communication. That is just not something I would ever consider doing to someone. I'm not going to argue with the seller over what he said because it's pointless. Except for the part about panicking if he didn't reply. There was no panicking. I wasn't overbearing or asking a million questions. I did ask more than once for the car to be washed so I could see what it actually looked like. Who honestly sells a dirty *** car with bugs and **** all over it? When that failed to happen the PPI was already committed to and I figured the shop could gauge it for me, which they did. The car checked out for the most part so I made the decision to go ahead with the purchase. He knew the situation with my credit union and I didn't even think about a deposit really because I planned on buying a plane ticket and being there with money in 3 days. If he had asked for one I would have obliged. I did get worried when he changed the plans at last minute and wanted me to complete the transaction electronically and pick up the car on good faith without him being present. That's exactly how people get scammed. Not saying he is a scammer but it just seemed like a bait and switch...and then he basically used me to get a PPI for his car. The red flags were abundant in this transaction with both his attitude and his lack of specifics but I persisted because I really liked the car. Live and learn. I've read over and over and have been told by EVERYONE not to buy a 911 without a PPI but now a lot of people seem to think its not necessary or a waste of time which is odd to see on this forum. He can relist the car, and some sucker will pay for a 3rd PPI on it before he does the same thing to them.

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Well that isn't really accurate is it? I'm not trying to be a smart *** or anything, honestly, but didn't you say the "final decision" will has to be made in person? I think what it boiled down to was you were a bit higher maintenance than a "regular" buyer, which is fine and totally your right. A car dealership would most likely gladly give the required maintenance but an individual?, well there is the rub, not sure I would either. I've squashed deals for less then I see in this thread b/c I didn't like the overall "feel". I think the text you sent where you said you wished he would have done something different b/c you wouldn't have rushed the PPI and gave him more time to wash the car or something like that was the smell test for me, well that and that you outed a guy's privacy for not a very good reason on a public forum (also a sign of a higher maintenance PITA to deal with buyer). It is ok to feel that way, but when you say it to someone you are doing business with it puts you in a certain category IMO. Some people are ok doing business with that category, others, like your seller, are not. That statement you said, to me shows the high maintenance that is not worth dealing with on a car deal precisely b/c those are the people that will call and complain when something breaks. It sucks that you were out the PPI, but honestly the way I see it the seller and you have something to trade. You have a clean PPI on his car, and to some buyers that means everything, plus he won't have to go through the process again. If you wanted to, you guys could just split the bill and the seller gets the PPI and be done with it and lessons learned, or take the seller up on his offer to advertise the clean PPI and pay you for it when a buyer wants it (very nice thing he is offering honestly).

Your expectations are out of line OP. PPI is a sunk cost on a car. As a seller, until buyer paid cold hard cash for the car and signed the title...seller can do what he wants with the car. You had no written agreement, you didn't wire any hard money, and you were very neurotic in your communication. Seller's schedule changed, you freaked out, seller froze you out. There was no scamming here. You willingly paid for the PPI you requested, then your neurotic behavior got seller concerned. I see nothing wrong here. During my last car sale I also blocked two people who I felt would be problem buyers.

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I know you are still upset and everyone understands that. Time will "heal" these wounds. 1. PPI is always a good thing. However, there may be times when you are willing to take a chance buying a car without one. I have bought cars with and without PPI's....it comes down to your pain/risk tolerance. 2. YOU own the PPI. The shop performing the PPI should not give it to the car owner without your permission. I usually give the owner the PPI if I pass on a car. At that point I'm out anyway so what's the harm? 3. If it's a desirable car (like an aero) there is a lot of competition. You are going to have to get aggressive and take some risks. For example, offer to pay a non-refundable deposit. If the seller's phone is blowing up with calls they aren't going to deal with you unless you put some skin in the game. 4. Make sure your expectations are realistic. These cars are 20 years old and are not going to be perfect. Expect garage queens to have old tires, dried hoses/belts, etc. Plan on driven cars to have paint ships, road rash, wheel blemishes, seat wear, etc. And remember, it's not a deal until money changes hands.

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Well to break it down, I only said nothing was final until I see the car in person because he said he would not be present when I picked up the car. Him not being there definitely made me think about things. There are a million scenarios. Look, I get it. Many of the people here can just throw out 20k on a car on a whim without a care in the world. I happen to need to be a little more careful with how I spend mine. The text about his schedule change probable could have been worded better, but he had complained several times about taking the car to get a PPI, and then after he scheduled it he told me it was on his birthday. If I had known we were not on such a tight time schedule it could have been done later no big deal...plus he kept saying he didn't have time to wash the car so it would have been a better opportunity for him to do that. I didn't share the text where he said he was going to wash and wax it that weekend before sending pictures but he never did. I really didn't post this thread to analyze every little sentence that was thrown back and forth. But I guess I should have expected that.

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Never once did I complain about paying for the PPI. Had I not liked what I had seen it would have not been an issue. I made that clear. Having the car purchase opportunity taken away from me AFTER paying for a PPI and AFTER being told I had first right of refusal IS A PROBLEM FOR ME.

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I agree on all of these points.

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Did you have any of this in writing? Right of first refusal and written purchase contract after ppi was completed? I believe the answer is NO, so you have no claims against the seller. Your behavior post PPI got seller concerned and he pulled the plug, he had every right to do that. He didn't take a penny from you. If seller took $350 from you and then bailed, or if you paid $350 to his chosen shop... I would be on your side 100%,but as is I stand on my opinion that you are out of line here and seller did nothing wrong.

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Actually yes, I do have the right of refusal in writing. It's in my original post. But why should that matter? Does anyone have integrity anymore? So now I'm supposed to get a written contract signed by a seller before getting a PPI? So more people can comment that I'm being overbearing and being unreasonable? Let's be real here no one does that.

No, you get one after PPI came back to your liking. Referencing your own post, this is a $20,000 purchase, so calling a seller and saying that you would like to buy the car within 30 calendar days and you would like to sign the PSA along with a small non refundable deposit would be a 100% valid request. I doubt any seller would say no to a contract that requires buyer to pick up a car by a certain date and pay the agreed upon price.

Well that might have been an option if he didn't block my phone number less than 24 hours after the PPI. It's over with and done. Not gonna beat this dead horse any longer.

Time to lock this one down! Hey Erik, how'd you know about this thread on RL? Espo, what are you wanting as far as a car goes, list specifics and some of us will keep an eye out for you. I've directed 3 or 4 people to cars (while on my own quest) that have been appreciated.

[QUOTE=808Bill;15019303]Time to lock this one down! Hey Erik, how'd you know about this thread on RL? I was wondering the same thing, looks like he joined just to defend himself. I like the gusto lol

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[QUOTE=Horsepwr;15019304] I thought the same thing. How did Erik find the thread? I thought of four scenarios. 1. Erik has a different username on RL and didn't want this mess associated with it so he started a new user 2. Erik googles himself everyday, and google somehow reindexed really quickly 3. This is an epic trolling thread 4. The OP and Erik are the same person, and this is just a way to drum up advertising for his sweet Aero Kit car that is for sale

If it smells like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...... it might just be a difficult buyer. I'd have run from all this drama myself. I damn near sent my 944 to the crusher thanks to buyers like this. Instead it went to Israel which was another bucketful of nightmares.

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[QUOTE=Kris Murphy;15019354] Definitely #4

Maybe it's "Opie"!

cat fight done.