New car woes

Long story short, the car I just picked up was from Florida that I drove back home to the Metro Atlanta area, so going from a state w/o emissions requirements to a metro area that does...I'm sure you can see where this is going. I will also preface everything by saying it's my fault as I got careless and complacent. The seller had good history and extensive work done barely 6 mo ago and everything checked out, so I didn't ask for a PPI and in fact the day of, forgot to take an OBD2 scanner. If you didn't see where this is going, you really should now. (fwiw I reached out to the seller, he was responsive, didn't try to dodge me and said he truly didn't know as the car had been in so recently, not that it matters bc it was my fault for not fully doing my own due diligence) Wouldn't you know it, yesterday as I was wanting to get my emissions done, I was told the CEL didn't come on at all when the key got inserted and turned, at the time when many dash lights will flash on then go off. Right after that my OBD2 scanner read 3 codes. First one was the code that indicated my CEL light was out (I'm thinking bad light), the other 2 however are a bit more problematic, esp from the needing to pass emissions so I can get my car registered perspective. I got the dreaded 0410/1411 combo of secondary air injection codes. Needless to say I spent the entirety of last night crawling all over this forum, renntech, DIY articles, what have you. I checked the SAI pump this morning on a cold start and it ran fine, not overly loud as I'd read some can be when they're starting to go out. My 2 things I'd like some help and guidance on are as follows: 1) I can def do the CEL bulb replacement, but at the same time I'm now wondering if any others may be out. Does someone have a picture from their early model 996 (non-Cab) that can show me what all lights flash at start up? I was going to buy 2 bulbs anyway but just in case I need even more than that I'd like to knock them all out at the same time. 2) I have every intention of resolving the SAI codes issue (now narrowed down to the air change over valve or electric change over valve, I hope). My main issue is timing, even if I send the car into a shop and it gets resolved I heard the drive cycle on our cars can be quite extensive and time consuming, and it doesn't help I'll be out of town for 10 days starting this Friday. I'm wondering if anyone knows there's any truth to this statement here I read from a DIY article: "But in order to get your SMOG certificate the check engine light must be cleared, so the problem needs to be fixed. There is a trick around the issue to get an SMOG certificate, which is to have the CEL reset and disconnect the battery immediately prior to a SMOG check, the SAI malfunction doesn't not trigger the check engine light on the first failure notice, instead I believe it is trigger on the 2nd accumulated error, so if you reset the code prior to SMOG you should be able to pass without any problem, but then the annoying check engine light would come on again later." from http://p-car.com/996/diy/sai/mainpage.html I had thought if you reset any codes through and OBD2 scanner, you'd have to redo the drive cycle? Any input or helpful suggestions greatly welcomed. Thanks in advance.

I live in Atlanta as well and had to SMOG the car upon registration. I had a readiness code that I had to deal with as well. It was a real pain. But eventually I was able to get the car to read "Ready" then immediately smogged. About a month later I had the SAI code popup and it was no fun at all to deal with. Car was in the shop for a couple of weeks because the nature of this code, the car needs to be cold started to test. So every time they would try a fix, they had to let it sit over night and restart in the morning. It was a real pain, but eventually they sorted it out and the car runs great now. FREED performance up in cumming were the ones who took care of it, pray to god it's not t he SAI pump because that is an expensive OEM part. Mine ended up being the valves inside one of the hoses that had malfunctioned. Was time consuming to trouble shoot but all good now. Good luck.

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Hi Steve, do you recall how long it took you to drive around before the car was ready for inspection? So the thing about the SAI code is that apparently if you have a Durametric or PIWIS you can force the SAI pump to activate in order to detect where the actual problem lies, I'm surprised Sean didn't do that. As I mentioned my pump seems to be working fine (fired up for 90 seconds this morning) so it's likely one of the 2 valves. My plan would be to just have both replaced as both combined are around $100 I believe and if I had to pay for labor to get 1 replaced I might as well do both.

My battery had gone dead while it was in the shop for IMS/RMS/Clutch. I drove around for a month and it didn't register as ready (Prob cause I was driving too aggressive). However I followed the 993 sequence and it registered that day. Was very difficult to do in Atlanta traffic though. The SAI, can't tell you exactly what they did and how they did it, just that it was there a long time and with the labor I wouldn't call it cheap. However it was cheaper than having to replace the SAI pump itself, which we thought it might be at one point, so I was happy it wasn't.

Before replacing those components, replace the vacuum lines associated with the system. Many times (at least with Audi's, which is the same basic system) a vacuum line is disconnected or shrinks and pulls off the electrical valve that operates the mechanical valve. It shouldn't be hard to fix. Here is a post that I did many years ago on an Audi forum that explains the system in case you are not super familiar with it. http://forums.quattroworld.com/a8/msgs/15074.phtml Best of luck!

yeah I may just ask them to check/replace all the lines in there just as a precautionary measure.

Indy shop I dropped the car off at yesterday just came back and said they're looking at 3-4 hours just to diagnose what's going wrong in the system, does that seem right?

When you are dealing with the SAI system, it is difficult to diagnose. The problem is to even get to the SAI system components, you have to remove the air box, TB and front plenum. Then there are six million (j/k) components to either test or just replace. It's a goofy system with check valves, vacuum tanks, changeover valves, vacuum hoses and so on. So 3-4 hours is reasonable. If you did it yourself it would probably be 3-4 days of poking around in the engine bay, and in the end you would probably want to just replace everything.

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Thanks for the input Joe and I agree it is a bear to get back there. With that said, would I be better off just asking them to replace the 2 exchange valves and some hoses? It just made me real nervous when the service writer emailed me and said �the guys said the vacuum system is all goofed up�. Or do you think even after replacing hoses and valves that the issue could still go unresolved?

Besides the hoses and check valves, the most common problem is a cracked vacuum canister #6 in above. The only good way to check it is to remove it and put some soapy water on it to test for a pressure (vacuum) leak. And at that point, toss it in the recycle bin and just replace it. The second most common problem is the plastic vacuum lines cracking or being routed wrong, or popping out of the rubber connectors. It's a mess and is difficult to find the specific problem. Just for the record, I have had a constant CEL light for years due to the P0410 and P1411. I clear them with an OBDII reader and next startup they come right back. Since I live in Florida with no emissions testing, and I just don't care about the SAI system anyway, I just ignore it because I don't want the hassle of getting in there to fix whatever. I would probably just place one big order on everything and replace it all. Or send my ECU off to have it ROW flashed so it will ignore problems with the SAI system. BTW, that is the only issue I have not felt compelled to "fix" on my car. My wife thinks it is funny because I am so meticulous about everything else. I hate that system and would eliminate it if I could think of a way. The vacuum canister is a $23 piece of plastic garbage http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/hardparts.php?dir=996-99-05&section=108-05 I have strong opinions about the SAI system (along with the AOS that I have replaced) another plastic piece of garbage Don't take me wrong, I love my car! It is just that approaching 20 years of age, eventually all of the plastic heat soaked on top of the engine stuff is going to need replacing. Sigh.... Sorry, checked my link and for some reason sometimes they don't work. Go to your year, shop hard parts, go to engine and scroll down to Air Injection http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/911.php

I�m totally with you. I�m actually kicking myself for not having run this car through my mother�s name and address like my other vehicle to skip emissions testing altogether! So I just spoke with the shop and the issue at first glance is that the previous shop that did the entire engine out service, apparently didn�t put the SAI system back together correctly to begin with! So now they�ve gotta disassemble it all and reroute everything correctly before they can even begin to diagnose if there�s even a part failure.

This is the estimate given, does it seem reasonable? all parts for the most part are in line with what I'm seeing online, and the 5 hrs labor includes 1 to diagnose.

Cough...ummmm...cough....see what I'm saying? Part costs are reasonable, but cough cough ugh...the labor. Sheeze...all that to untangle that mess of vacuum hoses. I guess if you are unable (or maybe unwilling) to get in there and untangle this mess, since you have to pass emissions, looks like it is full steam ahead. 5 hours of labor is about what it would take to get in there and replace all that stuff. It is after all a Porsche! I would at least ask them to replace all of the stuff and take pictures while they do it....because that will be fun to look at. Don't forget to ask them to clear the codes, and can they do a readiness test on the emissions? Just to see where you are prior to going to the inspection station.

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yeah for sure, at this point I'm honestly debating if I shouldn't take that money and buy a Durametric and try to do it myself....I need to pass emissions yes, but it's not necessarily something I'm against at timeline as I've already been able to get it titled, which was my only real concern. on the flip side, i'm already an hr of labor in, and the remaining hrs quoted does include them doing the drive around to reset all readiness indicators so that's not a terrible thing.