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YOUR RESEARCHThe diminishing importance of service records
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Use " cars
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Leading evidence: 'Use " cars' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check its tailpipe' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I'd rather know that the car was taken care of in the past couple of years than what type of oil it used 6 years ago.
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The car I eventually purchased came with records from the current owner going back three or four years, but nothing before that when the car was sold used by a Porsche dealer.
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Suggestion
I'm going to my car right now to check its tailpipe.
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The car I eventually purchased came with records from the current owner going back three or four years, but nothing before that when the car was sold used by a Porsche dealer.
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The post asking if 8 owners is too many got me thinking...
It is an almost knee-jerk reaction to tell prospective buyers they need to get all of the service records for a car, that these are a critical element of pre-purchase research. I don't necessarily disagree with that idea, but...
When I was searching for a 968 a few years back I found that the odds of a (then) 10 year old Porsche that had more than one owner having meticulous and complete service records was small. Now the 968 does not face the dreaded IMS failure fear, but between cam tensioner issues and pinion bearing failures there were definitely some potentially expensive maintenance issues a buyer needed to look out for. The car I eventually purchased came with records from the current owner going back three or four years, but nothing before that when the car was sold used by a Porsche dealer. After some consideration, and a PPI, I was fine with that and the car was a winner.
As the 996 series ages the expectation that a used one will come with a big folder of records going back to the bill of lading that delivered the new car to the dealership (actually had that for my 944S2!) becomes a bit unreasonable. The newest 996 is nearing 6 years and the oldest nearly 11. If you throw in cars that were sold CPO, at some point it gets even tougher as the dealers usually toss any previous paperwork.
With this in mind, rather than the suggestion that a buyer find a car with complete service records, shouldn't the more reasonable advice be to find a car with detailed records from the current owner or the past few years and combine that knowledge with the results from a thorought PPI?
+1
My car had no service records from the first owner and only a couple invoices from the second. But I called the dealer they serviced it at and they confirmed what had been done by the previous owner. (Oil changes and tires)
When I purchased the PPI was good and I have done nothing but maintance. I did replace water pump, AOS and IMS upgrade.
I'd say recent history is more important than complete history. I have everything for my car all the way from the beginning from the window sticker to even the financing papers! But most of it is just an "Oh wow!" for me instead of being important to my sanity.
I'd rather know that the car was taken care of in the past couple of years than what type of oil it used 6 years ago.
good post, if you can back track to the prior shop doing the service you can get the service records. That is one of the few good uses of carfax. I tend to favor local cars since it is easier to backtrack.
How ironic that on this day, "Bloomsday" -- a day honoring the great writer James Joyce -- we are blessed to witness the birth of what may be the greatest analogy of our young 21 Century!!
I'm going to my car right now to check its tailpipe.
Agree - service records do not tell the whole story - but nice to have if available.
When I bought my 911 - carfax actually had a lot of the service stuff listed - so at least you can see the p.o. was taking care of the car - the second owner had some more recent stuff as well - so gives you one more datapoint
I purchased a used BMW from a delaer for my daughter - one owner - serviced at the same shop - they had all the records- which showed all the stuff that normally fails at that age like waterpump) had been taken care of - nice to know ...
I'm still a fan of service records. How hard is it actually to keep a manilla folder and just toss everything in there until is it time to sell?
I recently sold a 2006 Mazdaspeed6 that I bought brand new. I sold it almost 5 years to the day I purchased it. I believe I got asking price do to the records I had. Every service, the window sticker, and all of the original marketing materials that came with the car in one envelope. The buyer looked in the envelope and said "wow! how much do you want?" I gave him the price and he said "works for me, you have taken great care of this car".
The car had a few dings, dents and various other "not my fault" imperfections. The records outweighed the imperfections.
I'm also a fan of service records. I have every receipt from every service performed on each of my Porsches. I don't think it necessarily guarantees a trouble-free car to a prospective buyer, but it does show a level of attention to detail that is comforting when purchasing a 10 year old car. It demonstrates that the car was well maintained.
I agree that most cars won't have this level of records, which is why is is special when you find one that does.
I prepare a "Baby Book" like those above for every car I own. I have been doing that for almost 20 years now. In addition to any service records I have (used cars don't always have everything), I also include a CarFax report and an AutoCheck report, plus any other informational documentation I can lay my hands on.
Yes, it is OCD and some people think I'm crazy, but it is quite impressive to prospective buyers of my cars.
I like that kind of stuff and certainly value it when I buy a used car.
I can tell you exactly how much money was spent in repairs every year, the average mileage between service appointments, the average cost per service appointment, etc. It's very reassuring to some buyers. I think I may be a litte OCD too...
Yes there is value in service records... but they and PPI's never tell the Whole story. My 996 C4 had full history all at the selling dealer - and a phone call confirmed the service noting "more often than needed" care over 9 years. The last year also had copies of additional work done by a well known Indy.
Yet... no records showed the removal of the Thermostat - or the damage to the Coil-over strut & Two PPI's did not note either of these issues and only after "cold weather" and 3000 miles driving did the missing Thermostat & Thunking strut get bad enough to diagnose. So - Records are great... but used cars are "Used" cars. Best plan is Purchase Price + 20% for repairs = Budget for 10 year old 911 purchase.
I guess my point is - the good Dealer or Indy service record will not tell you about the Amateur DIY Mods that a prior owner performs and does not do well. Add normal aging and you can have issues with a well documented Porsche. Those "pretty small issues" cost $3500... mostly diagnostic labor.
I just bought an 86 Targa, had great maintenance record from all the owners. It does help in selling a car.... ALOT. If i was gonna buy a 996, its gonna be based on mileage.... higher the miles, the more critical records becomes. I you cant deal... buy an aftermarket warranty.
The dilemna is that, as these cars age and pass through multiple owners, the chances of having full maintenance records decreases. There is no doubt that they are nice to have and can really help to sell a car.
It just seems that full and detailed records are not necessarily needed to make an informed purchase decision if you can get more recent records and conduct a thorough PPI.
I bought my old 996 with:
- No PPI
- No records
Sold at 102,000 miles with no major surgery (AOS was the biggest PITA) and the new owner has it still and has put well past 110,000 miles.
Dennis - I realize this is an old thread, but upon doing some searches, I'm trying to create a binder with some organization of service history for my 2 Porsches. Yours looks great...was hoping you could take a few pics on how you've organized the binders?
Thanks!
I bought a dodge truck with every receipt for everything ever done including bar codes off every oil filter used that had 200k miles on it. It was super well documented and cared for; jr totaled it of course.
Its unreasonable to have these expectations for any car though. Most people just aren�t that OCD.
I'm probably discounting a lot of great cars out there, but I still shy away from a car without at least the last few years of service history. There are so many unknowns to budget for when purchasing an M96-powered car, especially as you get into the 100k range. Beyond just the basic IMS/clutch that everyone checks for - the smaller items start to add up (AOS, starter, water pump, expansion tank, alternator, coil packs, etc.) None of those are deal killers, but not knowing that anyone of them has been replaced is going to have me reduce my offer by enough to cover it since I will assume replacement is coming.
I paid a little high for my 928 because there was a huge sigh of relief with the two-notebook volumes of documentation the previous owner provided. My 996 had documented clutch/IMS/water pump/ timing chains and guides/alternator /coil packs/AOS and tons of lesser repairs in the 3 years prior to my purchase that saved me thousands of $$ over a similar model that had not had that level of service performed. This purchasing model has always served me well with no surprises.
I�ll send you some pics. It�s nothing special; I put a few things up front in the binder like options and other information on the car. Then I have a spreadsheet that summarizes the maintenance, mileage, date, and cost for each service. Finally, I put all receipts into the binder in chronological order.
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