WTB, WTB: Your input very much welcomed...

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a died in the wool BMW guy, but have always had a 911 on my list. With the 996 market where it is, now seems like a really good time to get in. I know the model fairly well (I never buy impulsively or w/o some research), but I've come across two cars (SAME PRICE) and am a bit flummoxed as to which is the better spend..... what do y'all think? 2003 C2: Well optioned and essentially a one owner car with only 55k mi. But it's being sold by a smallish dealer (I much prefer to buy from owners). 2004 C4S: Well optioned as well but 96k mi. 8 owners, but the last two have spanned 9 years. Currently for sale by owner and he's making all the right noises (aviation background and a car dude). I love the idea of buying a cleaner, lower mileage car with less owners (black C2), but I'm (on paper) a big fan of the C4S over the C2, at least aesthetically. Unfortunately neither come with service history, something I'm having a hard time finding (apparently you guys aren't like BMW owners, lol). It would be my first 911, so perhaps the more appropriate car to start out with is the 2WD car instead of 4WD. Same money for either one, what would you do?

Both look like good cars. I would want some service history. In my experience I needed to change the rotors at 45k miles, and then things like waterpump at 65k, suspension, AOS, RMS, clutch, flywheel and IMSB. You can factor these into the value if you know they have been done. Servicing aside, go for the one that the options meet your taste, colour, leather etc. I would put this above 4x4 or x2 wheel drive. the 4s has a unique WB look, I went for a NB. At the end of the day they are all 911's. just make sure you get one in the colour you want. and I would strongly advise getting any service history you can. The last owner must of serviced it in their ownership. If not keep looking.

Neither, since you are not a long time "porsche guy" find a car with a long service history. If you decide to go for it anyway get a pre purchase inspection from someone who is a Porsche expert, not just some guy who does inspections. Most important, have $5,000 in cash ready to spend on repairs and maintenance immediately. Maybe you won't need any of it. Most likely you will need all of it.

As the saying goes.. WINTER IS COMING! Lots of good cars are about to hit the market. Stay patient. My #1 rule is don't get emotionally invested in something you don't own. Be prepared to walk away from any car that fails any sort of inspection, even your own. If you start down the "maybe I can fix it" road, be prepared to spend every dollar of ejdoherty911's hypothetical budget.

The carfax will show how many times car has gone to a porsche dealer for service. Spend the money and get for both, the C4S is nice body style, but it is silver. The C2 LOOKS nice. Choose wisely Grasshopper

What options do they have? I couldn't live (well, relatively speaking) without full leather and Litronic (Xenon) headlights. Apart from the mileage, how else are they different?

A PPI on either is likely. What's crazy is, both are at about the same maintenance interval. Clutch, brakes and so on are about due for the C2 and for the second time perhaps on the C4S. Pulled carfax and window stickers on both. Both no accidents and clean history, both have crests in headrests, xeonon lights (not litronic though, is there a difference?), 3 spoke leather wheel and PSM. C4S: Sport exhaust, full black leather, Aluminum binnacle, shifter and e-brake C2: Black Leather (not full or partial), SS exhaust, metal door insignia, aluminum shifter and e-brake Oh, and i fully intend on wrenching on it myself for the most part. Researching scissor lifts as we speak.

I'm not sure what the price range those two cars are in, but I feel like it's possible to find better examples. I personally wouldn't buy one that didn't have a fairly comprehensive maintenance history, but I guess if they pass a PPI it's not a total deal breaker. In future, it would be relatively difficult to offload a C4S as the 9th owner with 6-figure mileage and no service history. May be worth factoring that into your decision.

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"Litronic" is/was Porsche's brand name/trademark for Xenon/Bi-Xenon headlights. If they're Xenons, but not stock (check your options sticker) then they're aftermarket - probably no levelers etc... not necessarily a bad thing but good to know regardless.

As to why a multiple previous owner story (in this case 10!) is not necessarily a bad thing....think of it, that is 9 owners pouring money into the beast! :-) https://www.total911.com/lees-996-ca...-a-carrera-4s/ If I'd need to chose between the two (this is a C2 owner speaking!) I would go for the C4S. It looks so much better, that C2 looks very bland. Better have a well maintained 100k car then a lower mileage car. 100k in 13 years ain't much! Why would a RWD car be more appropiate then a AWD? With the 911, the AWD is sport-oriented, it is not a SUV tractor. Both are great cars.

I would also agree that once the C4S goes over that 100K miles mark its' value will drop and it will be harder to sell. With the C4S you are only 4,000 miles away. Obviously with the C2 you have 40,000 miles to go. Black will be next to impossible to keep clean unless you have a garage. Even a light layer of dust will be noticeable. Silver will be very easy to keep clean. Black is my second favorite Porsche color but keeping it clean (without a dedicated garage) was too much of a pain for me.

If you don't need AWD, read some of the accounts of people deleting FWD from their C4 & C4S cars. Admittedly, it's the driving purists that really want less weight & more response from the front end entering corners, but enough people make the change to give it some thought prior to purchase. And I'm not biased at all as a C2 owner

Buy the FSI 3.8L that slakker has for sale.

I'm biased, of course, but the C4S has a lot of advantages over the C2. Aside from the better aesthetics with the wide body, red stripe in back, and the smiling front end, it comes with the better brakes and suspension as standard. In your particular sample, full leather is also nice. As to having a full service history, it gets to be tedious after a few years so I quit doing it on mine after 5 years. I doubt you'll find many samples of good Porsche cars more than 10 years old with a full detailed history. If it was me, I would definitely get a PPI, a Carfax for whatever it's worth, and get the C4S if it passes. Maintenance will cost you, but so would a BMW

Typical dealers tend to dump service records. I sold a car to a dealer last year -- I had full service records and he had no interest in having them. I guess they feel that service records will open up more questions than they want when a buyer thumbs through them during or after the sale. Specialty dealers may not dump them, but typical dealers seem to in my limited experience. For me, the attraction to driving the 996 is that it's a lightweight sports car -- added weight makes a big difference in driving feel (my current C2 6-speed coupe drives a lot better than my old C4 Tip coupe, part of that was the Tip, but you could feel the extra weight of both auto and 4wd). I think the 4wd drive adds somewhere around 120 to 150 lbs (don't remember the exact figure). I'm not sure how much more the wide body of the C4S adds. Also, the boot is smaller on the C4 than it is on the C2. I would take the C2 over the C4S based upon all of that. Also, for me, black is a bit more distinctive than silver, and it has lower miles. Necessary options for me are full leather, 2wd, 6-speed, coupe, and 3-spoke steering wheel. Probably the most important thing, drive both cars. As cars get older, each one feels a bit different even if they are identical on paper. It's no substitute for PPI, but when you have no service records, the car that drives better will probably require less work down the line. Have you checked CarFax for service records? CarFax isn't perfect, but it often has very good records, particularly when the car is dealer serviced. I have all the records for my car from new, and the CarFax shows a good number of service entries. It's not complete, but surprisingly good. How good it will be depends on where the prior owners had it serviced (because some report to CarFax and some don't).

C4S. Mileage means very little on a roughly 15 year old car. When you buy a low mileage car, you buy odometer angst. With the C4S, you'll end up driving it a lot more. As for spending $5,000 in maintenance on it right off the bat, if it has had the IMS bearing replaced already, then the only way you are going to spend that kind of money is if you adopt the "I'll replace perfectly good, functioning parts because someday they might break" mentality. That's a slippery slope. While I like both of these cars, neither is going to ever be collectible. They are meant to be driven, so drive it and enjoy it and fix it when it breaks. Of course, if it hasn't had the IMS bearing replaced, then ejdougherty is spot on. You'll want to do this on either car because they are smack dab in the middle of the IMS bearing red zone. The one on the C4S probably wouldn't given out by now if it was a bad one, but even if it was a good factory bearing, the design being the worst of the IMS bearings means that I still wouldn't trust it. If you are going to drop the transmission, then yes, there are several "while you are in there" items to swap out that would make economic sense. Agree with Dr_Strangelove to stay patient because Labor Day marks the beginning of about a 4 month long buyer's market. You'll see several cars go up for sale in the northern states as owners will opt to sell rather than store for another winter.

BTW, you mentioned scissors lifts and wrenching your car. I have this: http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/spe...ts/md-6xp.aspx It works for about 80%-90% of what you'd need to do. The cross bars get in the way of some engine and transmission work. I think I would rather have bought this: http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/spe...s/mds-6kf.aspx

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Why would the OP want to buy a car that weighs in at 2900lbs & ~375bhp* & costs almost half the price of a GT3?

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Jeez, so much great info here... love it. Three of my four BMWs are black and are all garaged, nothing would change here for the 996. I mentioned a C2 over a C4S because this is my first 911. Just seems appropriate to get the quintessential 911 experience and graduate to other iterations later. Which is why I'm willing to make sacrifices on what i want, because I don't really know and won't until i own one. Silver is meh, but honestly the C4S is a bit out of my price range given purchase price is just the barrier to entry and not what i consider the total initial investment. Initial preventive maintenance, a few new tools and some farkling have to be factored in. All that to say I'll take a silver 911 if it gets me into a C4S. Kind of dumb to buy a C4S and then remove the 4WD, but I just might do it. Aesthetics are important to me and the two just aren't comparable in this regard. Awesome, will do, thanks.

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Who in their right mind would do such a thing.

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Having owned both a C2 and a C4, I'll say that the C4 is probably a superior car overall - more stable at speed, much better in inclement weather, traction control, etc. The C2 can get a bit floaty as you get into the triple digits, but the steering feel is phenomenal, there's less in the way of mechanical losses, and it's overall probably more entertaining to drive than the C4. They're both excellent in different ways, but I feel like I prefer the C2. A RWD-converted C4S would be my ultimate 996, so I totally feel where you're coming from. The widebody look is just so compelling.

You're not giving yourself enough credit. You already know how to buy a car. Grey: high miles, 8 owners, no service history, and a color you don't like Black: Low miles, but no service history, and dealer seller. Close, but no cigar. If these were BMW's, would you be considering them? I doubt it. You have extensive BMW experience so don't throw that instinct away when buying a 911. In the real world, you don't need 4S, so don't pay for it, then remove it. That's nuts. Unless you're saying it's almost impossible to find a 996 in your state, keep looking. That is half the fun.

To me, the number one priority would be to drive both. That is the most important action you can take to figure out which version you prefer and to get a feel for the condition of each car absent records. There is a lot of variability between individual samples of cars now that they are 15ish years old. To me, the reason why the 996 is because of the way it drives. That is 90 percent of the attraction, 10 percent is because of how it looks. I like the way it looks too, but I love the way it drives. I did not like the way my Tip Carrera 4 drove (that I owned back when they were new), but I absolutely love the 6-speed 2wd I have now.