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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHVertex Auto Rebuild 996 3.4L Rebuilt Engine
Reported or suspected cause
al
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported cause
The other problem is the AL to sleeve interface is not good for expansion during heat cycles so over time causes problems.
Leading evidence: 'al' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'al' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Repair rebuilt and refitted' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In my previous C2 cab I used the EPS IMS "eternal" roller bearing, which vertex uses in all of their engine builds.
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When I was looking for rebuild options I did call them, (have since gone with local contact and used LN Nickies).
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Suggestion
In the case above it would be interesting to know if the IMS-damaged, original engine was repaired , rebuilt and refitted.
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Suggestion
The expansion coefficient is such that excess running clearance has to be ran to keep the piston and cylinder from galling during warm up.
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35 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Has anyone used the Vertex Auto rebuilt 996 3.4L engine? I�m looking for feedback on service received, reliability, build quality, and performance. Here is a link to their site for the rebuilt engine.
https://www.vertexauto.com/porsche-r...1-p-12048.aspx
I seem to remember reading short posts from a few infrequent visitors to this forum who have Vertex rebuilds who were happy with the motor they received. Hopefully some will speak up to this thread and we'll get some first hand feedback.
In my previous C2 cab I used the EPS IMS "eternal" roller bearing, which vertex uses in all of their engine builds. I put 6k miles on it and then decided to buy a coupe instead. I will use that bearing again.
iirc there was a Thread of a Forum Member having a Vertex engine failure while driving it home after having Vertex install one of their rebuilt engines in his car.
The Vertex IMSB is just a roller IMS bearing. When first introduced it was inadequate.No thrust control.After some withering criticism here, it was quietly modified to include some Thrust control.All in Seearch.
An alternative for the engine and the IMSB here:
http://rndengines.com/
Ask Martin - he would have had an interesting comment !
Since I am looking for option to replace my bad engine, I too would be interested in what people have to say about the Vertex option....especially at $11.60. :-)
I'm curious to understand what sleeves they use in the cylinders, they state they use steel or iron sleeves but they don't show the actual sleeves. My understanding (might be wrong) is that the thin sleeves that essentially pressfit into the milled out aluminum sleeves in the m96 block are poor. The reason being there is no good way to anchor them apart from adding a small lip at the top and using friction.
The other problem is the AL to sleeve interface is not good for expansion during heat cycles so over time causes problems.
The better steel sleeves are entire liners, they kind of look like steel metzger sleeves, the m96 has its cylinders completely milled away. The steel liners are 'wet'
The wet liners should have better cylinder head sealing, retention etc
My interpretation was that it's an a la carte build. 8.5k to tear down & refit with the new items listed. But re-sleeving is extra. Maybe I'm just experiencing haste related comprehension fail...
When I was looking for rebuild options I did call them, (have since gone with local contact and used LN Nickies). Based on my conversation with them I believe they build to order and would asses the engine you sent in and rebuild.
There are mixed reviews, seems like good value, especially as I have spent much more than their quoted rebuild price on parts alone (but then the LN Nickies are expensive).
I believe there may be comprises and steel sleeves in an aluminium block may also cause issues as they are thermally dissimilar.
Factory there's no sleeve. It's parent material with a Lokasil process carried out.
Read the information at LNEngineering.com to learn about the factory process.
Once a block sees steel sleeves, its compromised forever and the process can't be undone with Nickies.
Steel sleeves are cheap, and fast. They help the bottom line of the builder, and help them mass produce, and that's why they are chosen.
The biggest issue I have seen first hand with this comes from piston to cylinder running clearances. The expansion coefficient is such that excess running clearance has to be ran to keep the piston and cylinder from galling during warm up. This is the point where the piston expands faster than the cylinder.
The result is an engine that sounds like a small diesel, and has diminished piston ring life.
Better be, cost me a fortune. This also gives you the opportunity to increase capacity at the same time from 3.4->3.6->3.8 depending on how you want to build the engine.
Here's how my block looks with the new liners installed.
https://goo.gl/photos/jyKfWTdKc2QyunL3A
Read more about Nickies here
http://support.lnengineering.com/201...er-cayman-911/
Another proponent of Nickisil plated sleeves
https://www.hartech.org/
Read the "engine guide" and "buyers guide" here....long but worthy reading.
There is some misinformation in this thread but regardless, I looked into Vertex heavily after my 996 engine issue and they have engines ready to go. Like order on a Monday and it should ship to you by Friday. Core gets refunded later upon return.
You can absokutely increase size with an overbore and a sleeve. I do agree that Nikasil based products are superior to sleeves. Sleeved cylinders generally do not transfer heat as well either and it's true that once you overbore and slide in the sleeve, you must use that sleeve or resleeve anytime you rebuild.
Vertex and several other builders have a niche somewhere about a used engine. I think you would be happy with one. Get it in the car right away and enjoy. Has a 12 month warranty anyway!
This statement concerning heat transfer with sleeved cylinders is too general.
A proper cylinder material will transfer heat just as well, or better than parent material. This is another reason why Nickies cylinders are aluminum alloy billet extrusions, and not steel/ ductile iron, or etc.
A steel sleeve will not promote heat transfer. This is NOT the case with LN Engineering Nickies cylinders that are Nikisil plated aluminum alloy.
Remember, the Nickies aircooled cylinders are the same material, and use the same plating. They are very effective when ONLY using air as a cooling medium.
Not 100% sure I'm following you and in regards to the post and I'm not sure that my statement was too general. The thread is about a 3.4 Vertex that uses Darton sleeves so that is what I am referring to. These are cast iron according to Vertex and as I understand it (which might not be perfectly), they will not transfer heat as well or as quickly from an aluminum block as a nikasil based plated aluminum will.
TTB is correct, I meant Vertex. Here are a couple I found. Granted they are pretty old.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...uto-miami.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...e-sources.html
Any other positive Vertex reports or Martin ?
In fairness success from these lower cost sources should be noted ?
In the case above it would be interesting to know if the IMS-damaged, original engine was repaired , rebuilt and refitted. Or was it an off-the-shelf replacement in exchange for $$$$+ a core ?
Is it true that Martin is now selling Finger Spinners made from old IMSB's ?
