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YOUR RESEARCHSpring/shock replacement or coilovers?
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Install b-8s
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I installed B-8s with H&R springs and sway bars, didnt want to mess with corner weights and height adjustments.
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I originally installed the frt struts with AM lemfoerder strut mounts, having trouble with alignment so I ordered a set of Tarrett camber plates.
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I also replaced all the bushes with powerflex purple street poly bushes .
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I ran into a similar dilemma when I did my suspension.
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I was in a similar position and went the coilover route , my car is for the street and I used the h&r street performance units and sway bars .
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Suggestion · Original poster
Couldn't agree more - the H&R and B8s are designed to work together - the only additional advantage of the coilover setup is being able to adjust ride height for different circumstances, and depending on the type of dampers, they may be adjustable too.
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Suggestion · Original poster
These changes are more applicable for race/track work than road driving as long as the setup you have works well for you in the road application - unless you are going to change your settings for different road conditions (very few would actually do this), there is little advantage of a coilover setup in a road car, with the proviso that you are using an effective generic spring/shock combo - the H&R/B8 combo is such a setup, but that's only my humble opinion of course.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I doubt that few would actually make much adjustments (necessary season changes excepted) to the coilover ride heights or even damper settings, for road use once the setup is sorted.
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Suggestion · Original poster
These changes are more applicable for race/track work than road driving as long as the setup you have works well for you in the road application - unless you are going to change your settings for different road conditions (very few would actually do this), there is little advantage of a coilover setup in a road car, with the proviso that you are using an effective generic spring/shock combo - the H&R/B8 combo is such a setup, but that's only my humble opinion of course.
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I've driven both setups and there's very little to no difference in how my car reacts to bumps in corners to the car with coil-overs.
Considering H&R lowering springs and Bilstein B8 Sport Shock replacement for my 996.2 C2. It's done 40,000mi on OEM setup.
I want a streetable result (this is NOT a track car) but as I'm used to race settings in my ITR, and have a Megane RS, harder is not a huge problem for me.
Should I be rather, considering coilovers instead?
Haven't fully researched yet so not sure of price difference...
Thanks
Sounds like H&R Street Performance coilovers would be a great option for you. I have them and I'm happy with them. If you can afford to spend $1000 - $2500 above that price point there are many wonderful options but maybe more than you need. If you do a search you will find the information you want.
I ran into a similar dilemma when I did my suspension. Whatever you think the cost is going to be, add 20% or so, for extra parts/tools/labor etc. I was figuring about $12 - $1500.00 for a H&R/Bilstein B8 setup and wound up going a bit over $2k by the time I was done (new camber plates, top bearings, various hardware etc.) and I did all the work myself. Don't forget that an alignment is going to run you between $250 - $400. In my case, the "adjustability" and added expense of the coil-overs just didn't make sense. I suppose if you want to track the car it might...Good luck
Thanks for the advice guys.
Have decided to go with H&R lowering springs and Bilstein B8s.
Coilovers clearly give you options for ride height and damper settings, but as I'm not tracking this car more than very occasionally (I have other track options), it seems like a sensible compromise for street use, particularly as the coilovers were significantly more $$$
Seen a few pics of 996s with this combo and the ride height looks perfect - removes those SUV-like gaps above the tires of the standard setup!
I do HPDE my car. While doing a major engine rebuild I decided to do a suspension refresh as well. I chose the PSS10's based on lots of feedback. The comment about "budget for an extra 20% is excellent advice. When my installer got into the project he found other parts that really needed to be replaced. PSS10's, sways, install, corner balance & alignment... wasn't cheap... but on the other hand - FIRST thing I noticed in getting the car back was not how powerful the new LNE 4.0 was, but how much BETTER the suspension was. Overall, despite the $, I'm glad I did it. Still haven't tracked the new suspension.
Just what I was looking for, a little firmer, lot lower -1.25", Back end feels a lot better.
Didn't need to replace any other components but was prepared to if needed.
Mine had similar mileage at 31K miles so it wasn't worn out or anything, but the new setup does give that confident feeling in a turn, it sticks.
Wish I had some Michelin's now instead of the Conti's
Maybe next year....
Mike
Got the car back today after the fit (H&R lowering, B8s). 25mm drop.
It looks perfect - lost that on-stilts SUV-like look (yes I'm exaggerating, to make a point), but the best part is the improvement in handling.
Much less roll, perfectly damped, better turn-in - much more a cornering-on-rails feel to the drive - and yet the ride quality has not been degraded as much as I expected. It's firmer, but by no means hard - good one Bilstein!!
Pics tomorrow when the sun comes out...
Bilstein B8's w H&R Sport Springs, I also changed out the Rear Sway bar to H&R Adjustable set on middle setting and with all three changes, it tracks fantastic. I was worried that there might be alignment issues but local shop knew 996's and dialed it in for what I wanted. Minimal tire wear, but useful at AX's or DE's.
I have some spacers coming which I hope everything will fit as expected.
Car feels great. Can't wait to slide in a new 997 shifter I just got for install this weekend.
Mike
I installed B-8s with H&R springs and sway bars, didnt want to mess with corner weights and height adjustments. Ive run a couple of track events and very happy with the results. Firm ride on the street but not to harsh. I originally installed the frt struts with AM lemfoerder strut mounts, having trouble with alignment so I ordered a set of Tarrett camber plates.
I have an 03 C2 with the same wheels & 15mm ECS spacers fit beautifully on all 4 corners. They're not the cheapest spacers, but quality seems good. I'm on OEM suspension, so not apples to apples. Planning to do Eibach springs or coilovers if my budget improves by the time the work is done.
That's exactly where I'm going next.
The fronts have plenty of tread, but are long in the tooth. The rears have only a handful of 1000s kms left, so will replace all 4 with Michy PS.
+996 on Michelin Pilot Sport 2s and spacers!
I've got M030 suspension so i'm either going H&R springs or PPS10s and about to install OEM 5mm spacers too.
Not too sure about 15mm all round seems too much to me but ill see after i've got the 5mm.
Your height looks good!
I've got 15mm on all four corners, and they look great. Front left tire rubbed just a little on full turn lock, but that was with my old Michelins. The new Sumi's sidewall doesn't come out quite as far, so no more rubbing. Put Tire Rack kit of Eibach's and Koni's on a couple of months ago and LOVE the difference! Lowered about an inch overall. Very comfortable street ride.
Have now driven the car over winding bumpy country roads and continue to be stoked with the improvement in handling.
Minimal roll, corners are taken with a much flatter attitude.
Superb damping. Hitting dips at speed there is no bobble or float which the standard setup tends to do.
Turn in is definitely quicker and more accurate.
The car feels much better tied to the road.
The ride is definitely firmer but by no means hard or harsh like my Megane III 265 RS.
The improvement has far exceeded my expectation.
If I had coilovers I'd have said I have the settings about right!
If I was tracking the car regularly (I'm not) I'd definitely go for coilovers unless all your tracks require the same setup. One of the tracks I race on (in another car) requires a setup moons away from the others - one setup does not cut the mustard in these circumstances.
Road setup is necessarily a compromise and in my view the H&R blue springs and B8s are brilliant.
Oh, and did I mention, I love the stance now - the SUV-oid gaps are gone!
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I was in a similar position and went the coilover route , my car is for the street and I used the h&r street performance units and sway bars .
Much better than the row mo30 set up I took out .
I also replaced all the bushes with powerflex purple street poly bushes .
Excellent set up for the money . Way cheaper than pss10 or ohlins
The dampers are made by bilstein and adjustable only for height .
I run it slightly higher (1/4") with these winters on
I understand perfectly why you'd be better with coilovers if you need summer/winter height changes. Fortunately, where I live, that's not an issue (never snowed here!).
Car looks great at that ride height! Is that a C2 - Basalt Black? Doh! Should have read your sig! That's a really dark grey!
H&R height adjustable coil overs are OEM on the 996.2 GT3 - they are non rebound adjustable.
What is the rough price difference in H&R vs PSS10s vs Ohlins vs KWv3?
The tires are the same profile so I don't need to adjust but it gives me a little more clearance . This wasn't a deciding factor for me , handling was . However I might buy new wheels and height adjustment gives me more options . All the way up is still 1" lower than stock USA height.
Since all components are matched as part of an integrated design The coilovers simply handle better with much better rebound control than a stiff spring b8 type set up No pogo sticking . Much flatter in the corners . If you want great handling ( on the street or the occasional track day) in a streetable ride quality , the h&r street performance set up , which doesn't get much airplay on rennlist , is a good option . And it's 100% German made . The h&r rss club sport ones are an Affordable track option but a bit too harsh on the street
It's atlas grey , looks midnight blue or black . It's a one year only 996 colour .
The h&r units are $1000 dollars less than the pss10 or v3 options and the ohlins $1000 more than the pss10 v3
I paid $1700 usd for the sp coilovers, tire rack had the best price at the time . Carnewal has good prices on the other options .
I have the blue H&R lowering springs with the B8s - they are progressive and softer than the red H&Rs. There is absolutely no "pogo Sticking" , as you put it. I am used to a very hard setup in my Integra race car and was concerned that the new setup might be closer to that than a liveable road setup. It's not.
I'm astonished how Bilstein have managed to get such a well controlled damper without destroying the ride quality - but that's Bilstein for you
I doubt that few would actually make much adjustments (necessary season changes excepted) to the coilover ride heights or even damper settings, for road use once the setup is sorted.
The coilovers don't "make the car handle better", it's the spring/shock combo that does that. All the coilover option does is allow you to easily alter ride height - coupled with adjustable dampers, it's a perfect setup to tailor the car exactly as you want.
For track that's a different matter, and as I said, if you are regularly tracking the car,
at different tracks
, coilovers are definitely the way to go.
PS: love the colour - never seen it in this part of the world - was it a NAmerican option only?
PS: I really like your wheels too - are they 19s? OEM?
Have you thought about spacers? I'm considering them at present, try and get the wheel/body flush look, but concerned about stone damage to paintwork.
OEM spacers are 5mm if you're concerned about the paintwork i'd consider sticking to 5mm. Maybe 7-10mm at very most, others will have more experience though.
The OEM options are usually very conservative so there must be a reason they only offered and currently offer 5mm (only talking about MK2, as there is another 17mm spacer option as well but not for 18" Carrera 5 spokes).
I've seen those SP coil overs for sale they are made by KW, what are they like?
I'm really drawn to the PSS10s maybe even PSS9s but they dont go to 11, ugh I mean 10
"I have the blue H&R lowering springs with the B8s - they are progressive and softer than the red H&Rs. There is absolutely no "pogo Sticking" , as you put it. I am used to a very hard setup in my Integra race car and was concerned that the new setup might be closer to that than a liveable road setup. It's not.
I'm astonished how Bilstein have managed to get such a well controlled damper without destroying the ride quality - but that's Bilstein for you "
The Bilstein B8's are designed/engineered for "lowering springs". This and the fact that they work closely with both automobile and aftermarket manufacturers insures that their products perform as designed. I'm sure that if any of their products exhibited behavior even remotely like "pogo sticking" the design would be revised immediately. If your car (or anyone else's) exhibited such behavior it was most likely due to using the wrong parts (there are many different versions depending on which model 911 you're putting them on) or perhaps bad parts.
If youre hard and deep into a corner and encounter a damaged section or good bump , the coilover , being a United design by bilstein and h&r , with aligned spring rates will respond better than a separate spring shock set up I described , pogo sticking is how I described the reaction .
It's a vivid description but accurate .
If you've never driven both set ups , you won't understand the difference . I pulled a row mo30 set up out to go this route .
Either set up will really benefit from updated bushes .
Going with new sport suspension on your old stock bushes will show the weaknesses of them from age and increased strain .
"being a United design by bilstein and h&r ,with aligned spring rates will respond better than a separate spring shock set up I described...If you've never driven both set ups , you won't understand the difference"
^^This is a stretch^^... The Bilstein B8's are designed to be used with "sport/lowering springs". The real difference between the two setups is adjustability. I've driven both setups and there's very little to no difference in how my car reacts to bumps in corners to the car with coil-overs. Perhaps when you get into the mega-buck 4 way adjustable systems there may be more of a difference - that's not what we're talking about here though...
Couldn't agree more - the H&R and B8s are designed to work together - the only additional advantage of the coilover setup is being able to adjust ride height for different circumstances, and depending on the type of dampers, they may be adjustable too.
These changes are more applicable for race/track work than road driving as long as the setup you have works well for you in the road application - unless you are going to change your settings for different road conditions (very few would actually do this), there is little advantage of a coilover setup in a road car, with the proviso that you are using an effective generic spring/shock combo - the H&R/B8 combo is such a setup, but that's only my humble opinion of course.
As I explained earlier I was looking for a road application. I race a completely different type of car...
Both are good set ups . If you're happy with what you've done , great . it's much better than stock . No need to get defensive , on the street we all make performance vs dollar compromises . I wanted better performance than mo30 but didn't see the need for the full adjustability of the pss10 V3 or ohlins options and their $1500- 3k price premiums . But the jump from b8 / springs to h&r sp co is only $500
If you get a chance to drive both back to back . Do it . Custom matched valveing and spring rates on one , close enough on the other ( b8s may be paired with a wide variety of springs of different spring weights, vogland, eibach & h&r vary widely) .
If you don't Drive both types , you'll never know the difference .
There is a difference . Driving is knowing .
That's why the gt3 road car ( non RS) was specced by Porsche with non adjustable valveing COs and not mo30.
