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YOUR RESEARCHDumbest question EVER on the 996 Forum?
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decent offroader
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The Murano has turned out to be a decent offroader.
Leading evidence: 'decent offroader' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'decent offroader' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace needed' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Destroying a $15K 996 beater (assuming, since you don't really want a concours car bailing down gravel roads) when you KNOW how much M96's cost used makes absolutely no sense.
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Only used for railroad business when on paved roads.
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I looked into the C4, and investigated the suspension changes needed to get it up in the air a bit, along with snow tires and wheels.
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Destroying a $15K 996 beater (assuming, since you don't really want a concours car bailing down gravel roads) when you KNOW how much M96's cost used makes absolutely no sense.
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My job requires me to do a bit of light off-roading. I work for the Engineering Department of a railroad. With AWD 996's dirt cheap, thinking about buying one and using it for work. We know the 953 conquered the Paris/Dakar Rally. Can the 996 be fitted with off-road wheels and tires? I currently use my 4X4 Jeep Patriot. An AWD 996 911 would be SO much more fun. And certainly convince my coworkers of my Porsche 911 madness? Thank you in advance. This is the Craigslist ad that put me on the road (so to speak) for considering this. Thank you in advance.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/5788790712.html
Yes, you can absolutely put offroad tires on a 996, and you can also beef up the suspension.
The C4 is not a true AWD platform, though. I don't know how much that matters to you, but even calling it AWD in this context is a misnomer. If you expect to be in situations where you want the front wheels to be able to pull you out of a jam, the VC in the 996 C4 isn't going to do it. Comparing the viscous coupling in the C4 to the 953's manually controlled 4WD system would be like comparing your Patriot's transaxle to an old straight-six 4x4 Wrangler with a manual transfer case (I'm not dissing your Patriot; I owned a Patriot Limited for several years, but the CVT in the 4WD versions of the Patriot were not very robust, and I found the engine gutless, especially at altitudes of more than 6,000 feet where I most often offroad).
If I was going to put together an AWD rally car, I'd start with a WRX. There are plenty of 2WD rally cars, but they are typically very light. Also, the M96 in the 996 does not like to get overheated; I'd think you want an engine that you can boil the hell out of and hot have it crack or seize.
There are plenty of cars that can handle being driven offroad; a rally car needs to be able to do it FAST, and that's a major distinction. My wife and I put a solid 15 miles of off roading on her AWD Murano last weekend; I haven't found a hill that sucker won't climb, but we have to crawl to avoid damaging it. A true rally car needs to be light enough to land after going airborne without demolishing the suspension or smashing the engine into the ground...
The car you found is also a Tip; while the tip is a great transmission, automatic gearboxes can overheat when worked really hard - the kind of workout you give one in a rally stage.
My ideal starting point for a dedicated rally car would be a Subaru with a salvage title - ideally the least amount of body damage required to pop the airbags, since the odd of totaling out the car jump astronomically when the airbags deploy, especially if the dash and/or door panels are ruined when they go off. I don't know anything about Subaru motors, but I'm sure the subaru sites are awash in information about which models are most suited to be dedicated rally vehicles.
If the goal is to make a rally-ready 996, I hope you go for it and succeed wildly. If the goal is to make a really solid rally car, though, I'm not sure the 996 is the best starting point.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Sounds like you and your wife had a BLAST in the Murano. My off-roading is limited to the "fire roads" that parallel the railroad tracks. Many of those fire roads traversed in rental vehicles in your beautiful California.
Nearly killed a rental Chevy Celebrity. Perhaps another reason to never buy a used rental vehicle? But that (of course) is another story.
Many more sensible platforms out there better suited for your intended use. Just because you CAN does not mean that you SHOULD...but based on your thread title, you already know this.
Ultimately, your money, your choice
You'll be fine on the fire-roads, 996 will handle them fine.Put smaller rims with taller tires, and you are covered. If you want to get some ride height for cheap, put some rubber spring inserts into coils.
The Murano has turned out to be a decent offroader. It's still a pig, but 800 pounds less of a pig than the X5 it replaced. As long as you take your time, it will go just about anywhere. Climbing is limited; at more than 2 tons, it weighs too much to get up any appreciably steep terrain.
Honestly, I think the 996 C4 might not be the right choice for a work vehicle that spends a LOT of time offroad. I think you COULD turn a C4 into a capable offroader, but it won't be cheap, it's not going to be comfortable, and it's going to be just as expensive to fix as any road-going 996.
Smaller rims on taller tires. Any specific recommendations about what might fit? Or how I could research this some more?
Rubber inserts into the coils. BRILLIANT!
The more we're talking about this, the more appealing the idea is becoming.
1) Need an automatic. Stuff happens on the railroad. Keeping EVERYONE safe is our Number 1 concern. No time for 3 pedals and shifting sometimes.
2) Don't need a Rally car. My 2014 4X4 Patriot has been more then adequate. As SCHNELL has pointed out, it's quite adequate.
Thank you SCHNELL for going out of your way to not "diss" the Patriot. You sir are a polite gentleman.
Thank you all...(as always)....
I also have a need for AWD and off road capability to reach my cabin in north NM and also a house in CO that sees a fair amount of snow. I looked into the C4, and investigated the suspension changes needed to get it up in the air a bit, along with snow tires and wheels. Frankly, although it could be done I quickly established that it was like teaching a class in a pool with scuba gear. Yes, it can be done but is not remotely optimal. As I started thinking of hauling stuff, including people the idea quickly faded. Also, as mentioned the AWD is not the kind of traction control that is typically found on off-road vehicles.
I bought a 2008 Dodge 1500 4x4 mega-cab truck and it's perfect for the job. Keep the 996 on road, and use something else in the outback.
The Patriot is the little workhorse. Much like your 2008 Dodge 1500 4x4? I have a wonderful 1999 C2 that's been from one end of the Country to the other. All on paved roads. Only used for railroad business when on paved roads.
A 996 C4 would replace neither of those. It would be a possible 3rd vehicle? I drive a total of around 30,000 miles a year. Try to keep all the miles entertaining.
Don't we all try to strike a balance between cost and fun? Maximizing the fun for a reasonable cost?
If we didn't care at all about the cost, what fun would there be in that?
Fairly certain I'm not the only one here for whom $$$$ means little. Many of us here have been Very Blessed. Among the most fun aspects of the Porsche hobby!
Reflected in how spontaneously helpful almost everyone is. Even with the topic title. "Dumbest question ever...."
For wheel sizes, just go 5%-10% taller on the sidewall with stock width, and you will have enough clearance. 5% would be my recommendation.
So on 17" rim, you are looking at 205/55/17 front and 255/45/17 or 255/50/17 rear.
For the rubber insert, you stick one of those on each corner and you will get a 1" lift.
When I was driving my Acura off-road all over Arizona, I "off-road" prepped it for under $500 with big tires and rubber insert lift kit. Car drove all over the AZ, on forest and just unpaved roads without any issues.
Now car is sitting lowered and on stock tire sizes, difference is obvious (color aside).
Luva: Have you ever looked in the frunk of a C4? NO ROOM! Hopefully you don't carry any typical Engineering Dept. tools because they won't fit. 35 years in RR, however, in Mechanical Dept.
There was a thread somewhere (possibly on the UK forum) about a member who uses a 996 for travelling around (for an undisclosed reason) at high speed across all sorts of terrain! They had beefed up as much as they could, was really interesting reading. Ill try and find the thread
You have not gone in to detail about your definition of "light off-roading", but it sounds like dirt roads that can be traversed in 2WD with good tires? You're seeing the AWD as a bonus, and relying more on the traction from the tires? Some things to consider - Remember the more sidewall the better, but your minimum wheel size will be dictated by what's necessary to clear the brake rotors/calipers. Also, remember that a 911 does not have the same low gearing, or low RPM torque that a truck will have.
However...
You Tube
Do it!
The video and other's who've tried the same supports your thoughts that it can be done!
And it's your money!
You could also consider simply getting a high miles Cayenne, like this one here in Tampa for a paltry $3900:
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/5842640139.html
If you have silly money to throw around then go for it. Once set up for off road the car will no longer provide that Porsche 911 street/track driving experience. 996s have little torque at low RPMs. An AWD Cayenne S seems like a more sensible option.
Cayennes can be had for less money than 996s...seriously. If you are looking for a rallyesque car, keep in mind that most rally cars don't leave the fire road, and 2WD is perfectly fine there with the right tires.
If you actually need AWD to not get stuck, don't trust the 996 AWD system for this. You would probably be better off with a C2 with LSD.
Wow, I had no clue they were capable of that. While I still stand that an STi/STI would be better suited for this type of life, I would not turn down a 996C4 for it after seeing that (might need an LSD in the back though.)
But...but...that was a 2-day event, right? I'm not sure a C4 that survives 2 days of abuse is necessarily as durable as a Hilux that gets beat to hell for 20 years and keeps running.
9" rock. Bashed oil sump. Spun bearings or other bustedness. $20K.
Don't go ahead and do it.
Destroying the motor on a Toyota - where you can source and install a used engine for $1K - makes sense. Destroying a $15K 996 beater (assuming, since you don't really want a concours car bailing down gravel roads) when you KNOW how much M96's cost used makes absolutely no sense.
I am a YUGE proponent of stupidity - I've been doing stupid things for 46 years now and trying to drag as many people along with me as possible, up to and including taking both my 986 and my 996 offroad (gingerly)...but
this kind
of stupidity will get expensive.
Definitely agree with the contentious, there are many more cars that are more capable than a 996 it's just not made for what you're trying to achieve IMO.
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