P Zeros, is it me...

Or are they absolutely S#%T in the rain?! On I-95 today in a steady rain and the car was literally undrivable over 40 mph. I expected more out of a C4s in the rain, so I'm assuming it's the rubber. Hell, my SC was way better with Dizzeras on it.

It's not you....you're tires suck.

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Before moving to Porsches and even since I owned several other cars and ran the tires recommended by the automaker and became spoiled by the grip these tires had in the wet. Oh, various brands of tires too: Goodyear, Firestone, Michelin, Cooper, and so on. However, none of the tires were as high performance as those that come on Porsches. But I can say with some experience all Porsche summer tires -- well, by all make that Pirelli, Michelin, Continental, and Bridgestone -- suck in the rain. If the road is even damp, I have to slow down, even if the tires are brand new, as was the case upon having my Turbo fitted with new Bridgestone tires installed by a dealer (Niello) in Sacramento and driving from there in pouring rain. Sincerely, Macster.

Thanks, gentleman. I guess it's time for some new tires. I just don't feel comfortable driving that car in the rain. Period. I'll of course do a search, but any recommendations are welcome. This is a year round (mid atlantic area) daily driver, no track days, enjoy the occasional spirited drive car. Thanks

I've had great luck with Michelin PS2s in the rain on the street and the track. Wet track days in a C4 with those were a blast. Very confidence inspiring. I'm on Super Sports now and haven't had them in the wet on the track, but they seem fine on the street/highway. One of the scariest rides I had in the rain (Toyota Supra) was when I had too much rear toe in. The tires were worn on the inside from the improper alignment and in combination with the toe setting it was downright frightening. Take a look at your tire wear and alignment. -shawn

Those wide rear wheels on 4S can hydroplane quite easily with standing water. My street ruuber is sumitomo presently and they are good in the rain not great. Not sure if any tire will be confidence inspring in heavy rains unfortunately. Shawn have you compared sumis to PS2s? I cant get myself to spend the PS2 $. And no supers sports in 295 or 305... Next street tires will be Yoko AD-08. Ive heard good things and with a tread wear rating of 180 they should stick well for DE.

The bad experience in the rain I mentioned above was with Sumi's (II). I haven't tried them on the Porsche. Here's a recent comparison if you're interested: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

I've had Pirelli P-Zeros on several cars, including my 996 C4S and I've never been happy with them. I won't buy them again. I'm currently running Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s and they are much better, even in the rain. I think the PS2 is the best tire I've ever had on my C4S.

thanks. Im on the sumi 3. Only bought them once and for the $ ill agree with most here - they are a good tire for daily use only. Let em sit and they flat spot. For DE? forgetaboutit...

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I have Sumitomo HTR ZIIIs on my 2000 C2 and they handle excellent in the rain. The Sumis handle far better in the rain than the MPS2s they replaced, IMHO. Also, the Sumis perform great in the dry(maybe 8/10ths+ that of the MPS2s) for a great price.

+996 on PS2's wet, dry and track. Worth every penny.

I am probably the last standard bearer on this Forum for Pirelli P Zero Rosso N4's. That's OK with me since the opinions on tires and oil on this Forum run as wildly and emotionally as politics and religion. I drove my '99 C2 coupe yesterday in torrential rain for over an hour. Happened again today. Will likely happen again tomorrow. I live in Florida and it is summer. My current, very well worn, P Zero Rosso N4's did absolutely fine. No handling issues of any kind, even though the tread on the rears is almost a memory, and the fronts are little better. Even through the occasional running water. I did not drive over 60 MPH during this rain. Hydroplanning onset is usually at about 60 MPH. I did not drive below 50 MPH. No need. I DO clearly recall driving a C4 and a C2 back-to-back at Roebling Road Raceway on a very rainy track day and remarking to myself how poorly the C4 handled in the wet. Note to self: Do not buy a C4 for track events. I was actually quite amazed at the dramatic difference in the C4 pushing (understeering) hard through the wet Turn 3 at speed. The C2 in that same corner and under the exact same wet conditions was completely planted and controllable. Yes, Pirelli's get noisy as they age. Yes, Pirelli's may get less actual mileage out of a set for street-only use. I have tried many other brands on my car over the past 14 years. I keep coming back to the Pirelli's. I am a track guy. But I don't want a total track tire. When you read the tests, the P Zero's usually stand near the top in dry cornering. Funny how the newest wondertire always seems to be marginally better in that area when first tested, then sort of slips down the list a position below P Zero's later on after folks have driven them for a while (and the full page advertising for that manufacturer and gone away). Wide tires suck in heavy rain. ALL wide tires - unless you are driving BigFoot. I believe that your owners manual, and Porsche factory annually updated recommendations, far outweigh "butt dynos".

And for C4 owners - I fully bow to your superior traction and control in Northern States winter weather conditions. All yours. Of course, you would then be using your All Season tires or even Winter Tires. I don't own any of those here in Florida.

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+1 Have you seen how Pirelli has taken F-1 racing 2 steps backwards this year?

The P-Zero is a poor tire in the rain and in the Dry! Several of the other brands listed above are better.

Thunder, I'm with you on the winter tires in the winter, but I'm surprised by your comments on the C4 at the track in the rain. In my limited experience, my C4 seems to perform far better than C2's out on the track during the rain. Granted, with different drivers it's nearly impossible to separate the impact of the driver from the vehicle in these situations. I'm sure a better driver than me in a C2 would leave me in his/her puddles, but I would think the same driver in both vehicles would turn quicker times in the C4.

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+10!

Hankook V12's excellent in the wet and trust me I know wet living in Miami. We have been getting what is best described as biblical rain for weeks now.

simply my $0.02. ps2, n3, tires are quite expensive, but i have used them on a few cars with very good results for winter it is 240 snowsports, n3 factory psi too

My car had Pzeros on it when I bought it 12 years ago. As I remember they were pretty good in the dry, not so good in the rain, and totally useless in the cold or snow (of course this is the case with most of the high performance tires). I replaced them at about 10,000 miles as the became horribly loud when worn. Went to PS2's which were wonderful in the dry and the rain, and actually much better than the Pzeros in the cold (I run winter tires thought). I thought the PS2's were the best until I got the PSS recently. Better in both the dry and the rain, also less expensive and longer lasting. Not N rated but that really doesn't matter to me.

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+1 I replaced the PS2's on my C4S with the Sumi HTRIII's. I rarely drive in the rain, but the couple of times I've been caught in it, they performed much better than the PS2's. In normal dry weather they perform as well, if not better. They do "flat spot" easily, as I don't drive my car everyday. Plus, they're certainly an affordable option compared to some of the expensive brands, out there. A good tire for our cars, IMO.

I got caught in the rain today in NY with some Sumi HTR3s on my C2 and was surprised at how well they held up even with only 4/32 left. Average speed was 75mph highway driving though, no twisties.

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The Hankooks have been a great tire for me also. We (DE/PA/NJ) have been getting some wild wet weather here also. I am very happy with the hankooks as a DD tire.

+2 on the hankooks. I run two sets year round in Pa. haven't had any complaints.

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In this particular case, your tires still had mold release material on them, which is the next best thing to oil on wet pavement. I wouldn't go near highway speeds in the rain on brand new tires until they had at least 500 miles on them.

Went from Sumi IIs to N3 PS2s, bought & installed at Costco. No comparison. Can't comment on the Sumi IIIs. IIs were scary in the rain. Since my car is not a DD & I only put on maybe 4k-5k a year, the $1400 for PS2s isn't as unpalatable. I only had 18k or so on the Sumi's, they were hard as a rock after 5 years, though still had 50% + tread, they were loud and flat spotted in minutes. Never had a smooth ride, and PSM used to kick in all the time when powering out of a corner, wet or dry. The N3 PS2s are like a wet dream in comparison. The Porsche indie that did my alignment said that if I don't track 20-25k is easy to get out of the new PS2s. We'll see. I had P-zeros on my '03 Passat and hated them, so I avoid them now.

With great reluctance and following advice from my tire guy, I installed Michelin all-season tires for summer (still run Dunlop M3's for winter) and couldn't be happier. Much quieter, superior wet weather traction and no noticeable loss of traction on dry roads. It's a C4 that doesn't see track time. YMMV...

I have C4. It is rock solid in rain. Last Saturday, we had some rain (not too heavy) at the track and I ran on Hoosier R6's just to feel it out and was able to keep it on the track and pass lots of people in RWD cars. ...leaving PSM "On," however it did not kick in too often. Have you checked Tire Pressures? Also, what about tire pressures regarding your experience at the track? ...they can have a huge impact on understeer, grip, etc. Also,the alignment play a big part for both understeer and traction. Regarding tires, I still have a set of Goodyear F1 GS D3 (R.I.P.)...an amazing rain tire and fine for the street. The best part was the sizing 245/35/18 fronts and 285/30/18 rears. For the C4, this sizing keeps the diameter ratio very close to the 225/40/18 and 265/35/18 (important for drive-train longevity and ABS, PSM, etc), but a slightly smaller diameter. Thus, slightly better acceleration (somewhat like having smaller gears) with a sacrifice at top-speed. That is an easy decision since I rarely hit top-speed (last time was a couple years ago on Hwy 50 in north-central Nevada - or maybe not). Most importantly, for the C4, with those sizes, the fronts are wider than stock, thus adding some grip to the fronts, which helps correct understeer. This is also a good reason not to go to 295's in the rear on a C4. The good news is that Hankook V12s mentioned above do come in those sizes (as per Tire Rack). Wile I have not used the Hankooks, the size is "right."

It is definitely not you. My Boxster S came with P Zeros on it. Quite possibly the worst tire I ever drove on in the rain. I now have Michelin Pilot Sports PS2s on both my 911s which I like much better on wet or dry pavement.

for you guys who say youre running Pilot super sports, what sizes are your running in rear? they don't seem to manufacture the 285/30/18 oem size. are you running different wheels in the back?

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running 265/35 on back and 225/40's on front. love 'em

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Anti-hydroplaning is mostly about tread design & depth. Loose the depth & tread design goes away too. Tread compound stickyness helps for braking & turning along with the tread depth. As the tire ages the tread compound becomes less sticky. How old are the tires? Air pressures? Tread depths?

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My new Michelin Pilot PS2 N1 rated tires feel planted on the wet roads at all speeds. Very happy with them. I went to NTB and special ordered them from Michelin to get the N1s. Very happy indeed.

PS2 are great for the first half of the tread life. Then they can be prone to hydroplaning. Hankooks are very smooth and quiet, and exceptional in the rain, but you give up some dry pavement performance.

Michelin PS2 AS 225/40/18" front and 265/35/18" rear, Florida rain, run them like hell on the Interstate, bullet proof, rock solid, no hydroplaning ever, excellent grip and wear, no noise...best tires I've ever had. LOL...I sound like a commercial for Michelin!! They are a perfect tire for my 99 C2.

Put Conti II on and just drive....

I have the Pirelli's on my C4S and live under water (New Zealand), best described as spooky in the wet. The occasional power slide to turn the bowels to water comes out of no where... I will not be putting them back on and will probably go Michelins as above.

Got exactly 7200 miles, one year almost to the day before the left rear failed on a road trip. Tread wear vary poor. Will not buy again ...........ever. At least the Mgr. at America's Tire got me a 20% rebate towards my new set of Toyo.

No, it's not just you. The P-Zeros on my 2014 C2S are dangerous in the rain. Driving on I-5 in heavy rain was like driving on ice. The Michelin Super Sports on my BMW 128i (18" sport suspension) are so good in the rain it is like dry pavement. I can't wait to replace the P-Zeros.

I had P-zeros on another car, I figured if some of the major companies and such use them, they must be good, well those tires would never balance correctly, ride was very crappy, made you feel like you were driving a truck rather than a sports car, got rid of those tires for another brand, and all my problems went away, it was amazing, I will never buy another set of Pirelli anything.

My C4S came w/PS2 and I push them hard in heavy rain like 70 mph on turns and the car still sticks on the road. Of course, I'm not doing this anymore after I spun on my Lambo in the rain. Guess what, I had PZeros on my Lambo.

As many have said here, PS2 has been the best i have found for street wet and dry driving. Had a set of p zeros when i bought the c4. they were awful in comparison. originally i just thought the rubber was old, now after reading this i think it was just the tyre. Did alot of research on the tyres, noise, wet, and dry performance on the various websites. PS2 is always near the top. On the C4 what i have noticed is the rear tyres dont last anywhere as long as the the front, i suspect i will get 3x the distance on the fronts.

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I agree. Mine seem to perform pretty well with normal driving in the rain.

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Another vote for Super Sports. I only have ~1500 miles on mine, but they are: 1. Smooth 2. Quiet 3. Sticky 4. Not death inducing in the rain Compared to the Falkens I had on before.

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235/40zr18 front and 285/35zr18 rear on my C4S. Wish they came in 315/30zr18 for the rear.

I don't like them at all.. I can tell if a car I'm testing has them without even looking at the tires.

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My info is those are the wrong size tires for your car. The fronts have a revs/per of 794. The rears 780. In the C4 with its AWD setup and viscous coupling the rear tires want to turn faster than the fronts but around 0.5%. For instance running 225/40x18 and 295/30x18 the revs/per mile is 804 and 808 front and rear.

My M3 originally came with P Zeros and they really were crappy. When I bought my C4S, it had PS2s with plenty of tread left. They're ok. A bit mushy. Based on my experience of PSSs in my old M3, I would not expect much from them at the track. They will overheat and get greasy within ten minutes, less on those we're-living-inside-an-oven days. I figure I'll remount the Michelins in the spring and run them out. Then I can go to something more fun like AD08s. (Or maybe I'll try Hankook or Sumitomo.) For winter, winter tires are needed, imho. All-season tires won't freeze up on you, but they aren't going to do to well in slushy, icy, or ongoing snow conditions. One of my scariest moments was driving my AWD 335 up a modestly steep snowpacked drive, losing traction, and slowly sliding back downhill backwards. I was lucky I didn't hit anyone or slide off into the tree-lined ditch. I bought snow tires (Dunlop Wintersports) and next time on that hill, in slipperier conditions, the car rolled right up.

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According to Michelin, they are 821 front and 804 rear. Which is about 2% difference. YES the front should be larger than the back, but they don't make a 295/30 (or even a 285/30), and I couldn't wedge 225/45zr18 in the front. So I compromised. Why they don't make PSS sizes for the 996? Is there such a thing as tire crimes?

I hope that's not a critical issue. The snow tires I just got from TireRack (in fact, the only option they offered), the 225/40R18s are 25.1" while the rear 265/35R18s are 25.2". Is this going to thrash my AWD? (And they're Pirellis, which does not comfort me, though the ratings seem to be decently inline with my preferred Dunlop Wintersports.)

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I'm all ears. Might you suggest what a good DD tire is in your opinion? Or a least tell us what is on your DD. Mine are due soon. I value your recommendations. Thank you.