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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHCabrio Service Shenanigans?
Leading reported evidence
Check fuses
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Leading evidence: 'Check fuses' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check fuses' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Furthermore, the parts that were replaced were in line with such a failure.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
When working as a mechanic, for example, I replaced someones water pump and that was all.
Run roof up/down twenty times without reproducing the failure
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
According to the technician, he ran the roof up/down twenty times without reproducing the failure.
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Suggestion
I am not going to inspect every part of your car when you bring it in for one job.
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42 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
They replaced one flap motor and it worked fine, until i went to pick it up.
Does this sound legit to you, or is my local Porsche service center shafting me?
My cabrio's soft top stopped working a couple weeks ago. It has some aftermarket body work, so the automatic spoiler light is always on - was told to "live with it." No problem. Otherwise, there were no warnings. I checked the fuses. None blown.
I turn the car in for service and am pleased to hear they found nothing wrong with the top - "It's working fine, but we fixed your hazard light switch." Admittedly, it had been sticky for years.
I go to pick up my car and, while in their lot, push the roof-down button and everything goes to hell. The cover failed to release on the left side while the soft top raised maybe 50% before things went "POP!" and froze. The service rep runs out and says, "It finally gave up, eh? There was a fault recorded in the computer so I re-calibrated it and ran it a dozen times and couldn't get it to fail."
Now, I'm told there's $2,200 of damage to fix. I'm saying, "you broke it." They're saying, "it was dying already."
My questions:
- I had already looked for faults with my OBD-II reader - nothing. They say there's "another computer" that reads faults from the soft top. Really?
- Does a 996's soft top usually work when the hazard light button is pressed? I was thinking maybe the sticky button was preventing the roof from operating - a safety feature. If that's true, it means there was nothing wrong with my roof in the first place. If not, I'll be much more sympathetic.
Do I shout "shenanigans!" or just shut up and pay the man?
STOP!
Where is the car -
right now
?
If at the dealer, do NOT take it with you, pick it up, or sign any release. If you took it away from them after it popped, fuggeddabbouditt.
If it's at the dealer, stop talking to them. Go through PNA to start resolving this. Rent a car, and keep your receipts.
It's still there, with them. Everything happened on their lot, just as I was getting ready to drive 'er home.
Looks like I just missed 'em. I'll call PNA on Monday. Google is showing me [phone removed] in Santa Ana.
Thank you!
My local dealer pulled the same type of thing (not roof related). I brought the car in for an alignment after replacing the springs, shocks and struts. They call me up and tell me the alignment is done and everything is good except the passenger side window is making a terrible crunching noise. I say that's strange, I used it this morning and it was fine. They say, "oh it's common for the window regulators to go bad and it'll be about $600 to replace it"... I say, "I brought the car in for an alignment...Why did you have to open the windows"? "you broke it, you fix it"! They say "uh, we always roll the windows down when we're working on the cars, and we didn't do anything out of the ordinary - it just broke"... Once again I say " it was working fine when I brought it to you (which it was), you guys broke it, you fix it"... Long story short, they refused to fix it, charged me $400 for the alignment and offered to sell me the part (window regulator) at cost...Scum bags
Sorry, but having been through 5 regulators I'm on the dealer's side of this story. They do just go and often with no warning. One went after I rolled the window down just fine to chat with someone, then made the god awful grinding noise and refused to raise when I tried to roll it up. BMWs are just as bad.
It always sucks in a situation like this as you have to wonder if it is just bad timing or a scam.
I can't speak to the OP's situation since I don't know Cabs, but if it was in for a top issue and it is still having a top issue after they say it was fixed, then while I don't smell a scam right off, I do think they owe some consideration for not getting it right. It's not like he got it off the lot yet...
Yup, I'd almost bet that the op won't get them to fix it for "free"...The bottom line is, they have his keys and there's going to be an outstanding balance...Pay the bill, get your car back
All I can say is, treat them like Russia, trust but verify. Lots of snobby people working there.(any dealer)
I got asked if I was delivering something last trip I made(wanted my key reprogrammed). Luckily, the manager interceded. I'm glad I do 90% of the work myself.
Oh, I totally get it, things break - especially on 15 year old cars. Regardless of this fact, it broke n their shop, on their watch -i.e. they broke it. I think the right thing for the "stealership" to do would have been to give me the part at the very least. Charge me cost? Really? I was able to buy the part myself for what they quoted me as their "cost"...Whatever - I'll never, ever buy anything from them and I'll only bring my car there for inspections.
I feel your pain and this is a hard one. I have been on both sides of this several times.
When working as a mechanic, for example, I replaced someones water pump and that was all. Of course a couple days after they pick it up the Alternator goes out. So they blamed us for breaking it. We were not even asked to check the alternator and of course could have no idea what would happen in the future. I am not going to inspect every part of your car when you bring it in for one job. We did replace the alternator and charged our cost just to be nice.
On the other hand I took my 996 in because the top would not open. They replaced one flap motor and it worked fine, until i went to pick it up. The other side flap motor gave out when i tested it in their driveway. Did they break the other motor or was it just time for it to go ??? Several days later the rear window regulator went out. Did they break that also or was it just time for it to go.
Some times you just never know. Do the best you can and get on with life.
While I see where you're coming from, none of the situations you cite above are equivalent to mine. In my case, it didn't happen an hour, a day or a week later - They clearly broke my window regulator - or as they prefer to say "it just broke while we were using it" - Uh, in my book that means YOU BROKE IT - it doesn't really matter how or why. It worked when I dropped the car off, and when I picked it up it didn't... I've moved on - I bought a regulator and fixed it myself (which is the way I prefer things, as I know they were done correctly).
I pretty sure they won't fix it...as you would have to prove they did something to make it break, other than just using it. Cars break, yours did, it's your responsibility
Look at it like this, I borrow your car and roll down the window and it breaks, did I break it, or did it just break? Would expect me to pay for it?
yeah - hard to say they broke it if they just rolled the windows down and up ... That is not breaking it - if the regulator broke while
in their shop - it probably is just an unfortunate coinsidence on an old
part ..not clear to me what hey could have done to "break it" ...if they dropped a wrench on your hood and dented it - that would be a different story ....
"Look at it like this, I borrow your car and roll down the window and it breaks, did I break it, or did it just break? Would expect me to pay for it?"
Uh, seriously? At the very least I would expect you to offer to fix it or at the very least, contribute to it being fixed...You did "borrow" the car didn't you? What if you dented the car? Would you just say "someone hit me in the parking lot and took off, sorry but it's not may fault"... Good thing I haven't got friends like you
**The other point you guys seem to be missing is that this is a business that should pride itself on customer service, and do whatever it takes to cultivate good will and perhaps sell a $100k + car in the future. To me, it was just a very shortsighted way to save $125 on their part. Unfortunately, this seems to be the way most businesses are going - all window dressing (glitzy showrooms with salesmen in expensive suits) and little substance. I'll take a greasy mechanic in a cluttered shop who knows his stuff and actually cares over these "factory shops" any time!
My driver side door latch broke while I was fixing the passenger door handle micro switch. I never even touched the drivers side. Things break on 16 year old cars. They don't necessarily require people mistreating them to fail.
Btw - my passenger side handle micro switch went bad while the car was at a shop having the convertible top replaced. Did they break it? No. It could have happened at any time and might have been broken before I dropped off the car. I wouldn't have known since it was on the passenger side.
Bottom line: Replace the regulator.
Glad I don't have friends like you either
I would never ask someone that I let borrow the car to fix something that A) is known to fail and B) failed through no fault of their own.
Would you really expect them to pony up a new motor if the IMSB happened to go while they were driving it? Seriously?
If I flat out break something, then yes I flat out pay for it. However if I roll down a window, and it doesn't go back up, you are on your own. You shouldn't have bought a piece of **** in the first place.
known to fail? Afaik everything is "known to fail"... So you're one of those people who are never responsible for anything that "just happens to them"... Ah, now your screen name makes more sense - you must be an annoying little bugger 😎
You're the one that wants to lay blame/responsibility on others when it's not warranted. I'm the one that understands **** happens and you just need to get on with life.
Speaking of, it's time to move on.
Can't tell if dporto is trolling or if this is going to turn into mk2 "At the car show".
I am with gnat on this 100%. There is a pretty obvious difference between someone damaging the car due to bad driving, and something failing mechanically on its own. I know that there are people who hold Dporto's view on this matter, and for this reason I flat out refuse to drive other people's cars/boats/bikes. With super cars this is even more relevant. You can drive a 996 around town and your engine pops at idle (as happened to some people on this forum), according to Dporto you now own him a new engine.
Sounds like you are finally learning something, but not quite enough.
If your friend turns on your kitchen lights and the light bulb blows, do you expect them to pay for it?
If you ask your friend to open the garage door and that is the final blow when the opener shorts out, causes an electrical pop that drops part of the opener on your car ripping a hole in the top.....is that their fault?
Mechanics have a term for customers like yourself called "Ever Since You" and it goes something like this: Phone rings at the shop with a customer upset saying "Ever since you fixed X my Y doesn't work". 99% of the time the two are totally unrelated (like an oil change service and now AM radio stations don't come in).
The severity of the accusations decreases as the date of the last service increases.
While the car is in the shop, everything is the shops fault.
Speaking of convertible tops, I read that some people in the air cooled cabs have pulled out the electrical crap and made their tops manuals. Just like the good old days, you grab the top and pull it up and latche it. As for the deck that opens and closes, again a mechanical device, like my '64 Corvette had. This would lighten the car and get rid of unneeded technology. Has anyone tried this on a 996?
Not trolling at all. Unfortunately many folks don't know how to make realistic comparisons (or differentiations for that matter) - engine = window regulator? Really? That's quite a jump...Also, there is quite a difference between lending something to a "friend" and dropping something off at a business that's supposed to be fixing your car - only to have them "break" something else and then try to charge you a ridiculous fee to "fix" it... If you can't see the irony in this, you need to open your eyes! Now, before you go getting all upset over this, go back and read my original post (and two more short ones after that). My original point (perhaps not made particularly eloquently) was that the dealership/service dept. could have/should have done "the right thing" and ate the cost of the part (I wasn't asking them to do the work at their rate of $180/hr.). That $125.00 could have bought them more good will and future business than many, many thousands in radio advertising ever will. They would have made their money back from me in very short order, not mention friends and colleagues. Instead, I'll buy all my parts online and bad mouth them every chance I get. That's bad service and bad business in my book.
I read every one of your posts, and you are still wrong. Re-read my post, it's a daily happening for repair shops. Just because something decided to break the moment the shop has the car versus the next day.......scratch that, if this broke the next day you would probably still be blaming the shop. 24 hours is the red zone for the "ever since you" customers.
Do you know why windows go down at shops? In case the locking mechanism fails and the keys are in the car, you would be shocked to know out how often this happens, it's also easier to reach into the car for whatever is needed during service than opening / closing the door.
Oh....don't worry I already know. If and when the locking system fails while the car is in for tire rotation you would expect the shop to pay for that......
No I'm not in the automotive business.
True story - people were in town on vacation, their X5 started to make some kind of noise, call around and find the local Indy BMW shop. Turns out it was some small issue like an exhaust hanger was loose, easy fix.
While the tech was driving the X5 out of the shop it suddenly stopped without warning. Long story short the door sensor module failed, very expensive part and a known issue for BMW's. Per your point of view this shop is responsible and should pay for it, which is completely ridiculous.
The woman who owns the BMW fully understood and paid the bill without flinching and thanked the shop for their quick service. Thankfully the local dealer had the part in stock.
I doubt it - people like you are often put on a list in the system and future service is refused... "Oh sorry, we are all full that day, that day too...nope that month won't work...."
We hear stories like this at cars and coffee, we all chuckle and find someone else to talk to. Anyone else who's a business owner will immediately recognize how unrealistic your expectations are. It's also a warning not to go near your car since whomever is standing the closest when something falls off will be blamed and expected to fix it.
Hacker is 100% correct here. I'm in the business and this crap happens all the time. I've got an '86 here for a load of work and I go to test the fuel system after replacing the hoses. Fuel pump is locked up tight so can't test the system. Customer had the car flat bedded here so no idea if it worked before hand. Guess what, I'm doing a fuel pump and all the stuff associated with it and it's not me that is paying for it.
Had a Boxster in that had a window micro switch go bad while here, I didn't break it. It was just convenient that it crapped out here. Guess who paid for it, not me.
Hacks right, customers like this OP go to the back of the list and those most likely will never get in the door again. Those that I refuse to work with anymore are taking their cars to the places that charge way more than I do, and have to go back again and again due to **** poor work. Not my problem anymore, even when they beg to get on the schedule.
Be glad your **** broke where it could be fixed and not out on the highway 200 miles from any place that has a clue.
Now having said that, if you have been a great customer, are a nice guy, I'll work with you to ease the pain.
On a side note I have a couple of snowmobiles and have a couple of friends that like to ride them yet have no sleds of their own. We have a prearranged agreement that if a motor pops, they pay for it. There is nothing wrong with my sleds, but being two stroke and the nature of the machines, sometimes they can pop without warning. Is it their fault if the motor pops...doughtful. However I'm not spending a couple of grand fixing the machine when it didn't break on my time. I have no problem loaning them the machine, and they have no problem paying for ANY damages while they use them. But like I said, this is a prearranged agreement by both parties and everyone knows what is expected.
Um, why didn't you take it to the cluttered shop to begin with?
I seriously doubt the dealership will be losing any sleep over losing a customer like you. In fact they'll probably rest easier knowing your gone...
Sorry, but you are 100% wrong on this one. It's not even close and I read your follow up posts which get more and more ridiculous. You expect a passenger in your car to offer to pay for the window regulator if it breaks when they roll down the window!!!!! Are you insane? Let me guess they should pay for your engine when it blows too right? I used to work in auto service and this would happen on occasion. A customer brings in their car for whatever type of work and then something else doesn't work and they blame the shop. "It worked when I dropped it off." So what. It broke while here. Example, oil change. Customer complains, "now my air conditioner doesn't work". Your example, alignment. Customer complains, "Now my window regulator doesn't work." They did not break your window regulator. Your window regulator wore out. HOW could they break your window regulator, by using it to lower the window?! The battery can die, the fuel pump can go, the alternator can go. When you service 50 cars a week obviously vehicles will have things break while under your care. That DOES NOT mean the shop broke the item or is in any way responsible. Power steering hose sprung a leak while we changed your tires? It happens. Your car is 18 years old with 160,000 miles on it and the original power steering hose. "WE" didn't break your hose. Get over it. You are the customer that helped encourage me to find another career.
Hi John,
The older p--cabs are cable driven. These cables stretch or the ferrel on one end or the other pops off. Then the top transmission can fail. Had these issues in the past in one of my old 993's. My 994S2's top was trouble free but was starting to operate a little unevenly right before I got out of it to start my 911 addiction.
Here's my best analogy: you walk into a hospital, push the elevator button, and the elevator breaks down. You are stuck. After the firefighters rescue you, the hospital demands that you pay for the elevator because you broke it. Doesn't seem fair to me
Woops, I didn't realize this thread grew legs. I need to update my notification settings....
I thought some of you might be interested to know what eventually came of my conflict.
Over the weekend, I sat down with my "Porsche 996 - The Essential Companion" book and verified the technical details of the dealership's story. Everything added up, regarding computers, failure codes, etc. I also concluded that the symptoms experienced prior to service were a reasonable indication of an impending meltdown. So, it wasn't necessarily a matter of if, but when.
Furthermore, the parts that were replaced were in line with such a failure. I was under the impression there was collateral damage from not being diagnosed/fixed properly in the first place. Not so.
So, why did it blow up when I picked it up? God knows. According to the technician, he ran the roof up/down twenty times without reproducing the failure. Go figure.
In the end, the bill came to $2,700. After my accusations, they begrudgingly offered me a $700 discount, just to "keep me happy." The rest is supposedly cost of parts and couldn't be discounted. Whatever. Frankly, had they simply fixed it in the first place and given me the $2,700 bill, I would've paid it without question. Some dirty words, but no questions. ;-)
That said, I still don't like that our Porsche service center operates on commissions. It's a bad incentive to fix things that aren't broken. Some Porsche owners in my area drive 200 miles to Sacramento, just because they're not on commission and trust 'em more. Maybe when I'm retired and have more time on my hands....
Anyways, thank you for the advice, everyone! I hope my story is somehow helpful.
I've rethought this, the OP should have sued. Once the car goes to the dealer everything that breaks there is their fault. With that being said if my motor ever gives up the ghost, I'll have it towed to a dealer and blame them. After all they can't prove it didn't run prior to getting to their shop
