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YOUR RESEARCHThe 243,000 mile '99 just popped back up...
Reported or suspected cause
model museum
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Reported cause
It was the model museum for the Kansas City Automotive Museum and a must visit every trip I make there.
Leading evidence: 'model museum' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'model museum' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace engine' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
My engine was replaced by the factory due to the oil/coolant intermix back in April of 2004 when the second owner had it.
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It was replaced on the same terms and for the same reasons as the 356: it cost too damn much to make, and the market had evolved beyond the cramped, creaky, flimsy old car's ability to be *modified* into viability.
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Suggestion
Wonder where that puts my M96 in the production run process...
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It was replaced on the same terms and for the same reasons as the 356: it cost too damn much to make, and the market had evolved beyond the cramped, creaky, flimsy old car's ability to be *modified* into viability.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Yep.. Its so early that it still has the 4 spoke steering wheel, and the thinner oil sump plate..
One day people will listen to me about early 99s, they are THE cars to have.
The exact dates are unknown and then there is the complication of retrofits. So 'just' remove the trans to be sure. You can usually tell by the IMSB flange.
Jake I have a 99 with 3 spoke steering wheel and short shifter. A few questions for you. How do I tell if mine is early or late 99? What difference is there between early and late 99. Did all 99 models have the double race IMSB? I am trying to find out if THE car to have is the early or all 99 model 996. Can I tell from my Vin#? which is WPOCA2992XS644446 Thanks.
Look at the build date... Though some early cars were ordered with a 3 spoke wheel, or were fitted with them later, most had the 4 spoke, and still do... Its a 993 steering wheel. its the fastest way to pick out an early 99 in the crowd.. Also the tail pipes are a little smaller, and the outboard dash vents have a rough texture, and most are a bit speckled gray in appearance.
Early 99's skipped many of the engine failure modes, and were built before the fire occurred at Kolbenschmidt, resulting in blocks that had previously failed QC being sleeved and used to keep the cars going down the assembly line. See Excellence Magazine, December 2008 "Tech Forum" for details on this, as it was covered when Jim Pasha reviewed our engine program.
I prefer the earliest 996 that I can find, that means built in 1998, and as early in 1998 as possible.
Hurdi: Suncoast Parts has a VIN service available for cheap for info supplied. It will tell invoice dates, order dates, options...etc. Well worth the minimal cost.
Go to their website. It's listed as VIN service. Supply your VIN# and pay. They email the results back to you. I ordered mine a few years back and they supplied quickly.
OT minutia; The pics were taken at the San Diego Air and Space museum. Out front is of course the well known SR-71, and the Navy bird is a proto of the Sea Dart. It was designed as a mach-plus aircraft that would be sea launched. Sadly, the only flying prototype crashed in spectacular glory in front of a huge crowd of Navy and DoD brass, killing the test pilot. That was - as they say, the end of that. Convair moved on to build some great planes, but the Sea Dart was a massively expensive failure. It was only able to take off and land in protected bays, it barely reached mach 1, it was never fitted with armaments, and apparently - flew like a truck in the air. My uncle was on the team to test the plane after trials in San Diego, and he's glad it never got out of proto stage.
http://sandiegoairandspace.org/colle...f2y-1-sea-dart
I recognized the Balboa Park shots; was there for Maker Faire 2 weekends ago. The Air & Space exhibits are a little sketchy some times, but the Apollo-era hardware on display is epic.
On my Suncoast VIN report, Invoice Date 2 is what's stamped on the door placard. This was from back in 2014; I don't know if the format is still the same as when I ran my results.
Also the earlier the engine serial number, obviously the earlier build date.
So, my engine serial is 04066, so I assume it is a fairly early version in the total run.
OK Thanks jaetee. Mine is 5/99 so the car was built in May 99. I think that qualifies for an early 99 but only just. According to Jake, I have THEEEE car to have.
Hurdi,
Looks like our cars are twins. Probably came of the line next to each other. Mine is 1999 C2 cab., arctic silver w/ black interior. Same wheels and production date as yours, 5/99.
Mine has 64,400 miles as of today. I am the third owner. Owned about as year now.
My engine was replaced by the factory due to the oil/coolant intermix back in April of 2004 when the second owner had it. It was just out of warranty but Porsche "good willed" all the parts and only charged the owner labor.
I've always wondered what IMSB mine would have given the new engine replacement in 2004.
Jake if your reading this...Do you have any thoughts?
Jake, just in case you reply here is some more info.
Replacement engine number is M96/01AT66X65832 and I included a pic of the paper work of the engine replacement.
Mine says "2003" wahhhhh
(stuttering) 2222003!!!! wahhhh
oh, the humanity!
Maybe it was made in 1998?... and, they pulled a german fast one like VW and the engine thing? maybe maybe?
i ttttthink thththere's a 98 in my VIN! Does that count for anything?
I see a corner of the San Diego Automotive Museum in one of those shots of the static display bird. It was the model museum for the Kansas City Automotive Museum and a must visit every trip I make there. It's not the biggest or best, but a good little museum and worth a visit.
Nice, KC - I had no idea. The SD auto museum does a lot with a fairly small area.
This is the case with many of the museums in Balboa Park - there are 17, I think, plus 16 different gardens and, of course, the Spreckels Organ pavilion, which is the world's largest outdoor pipe organ.
You can burn DAYS at Balboa Park. One of the reasons the park is still significantly as it was for the 1915 Panama-California Exposition is a request by a certain Teddy Roosevelt in 1915 that we not tear it down or f**k it up.
Same here. Mine is hand-stamped with M96/01 ATT. Jake commented on a previous thread that I possibly have a factory replacement case. My car is a 10/98 build.
vindecoderz.com works for most newer 996es, but for whatever reason, none of these online portals actually find my VIN number. I wonder if it's too old for PCNA to have the records digitally (MY99, but I don't know production month). So I might just have to request it directly from them.
EDITED BECAUSE I MESSED UP:
This is interesting. According to this thread, the "W" means your model year was made in 1998, and the "X" on mine means it was made in 1999. Even though the "build" date on mine is 10/98.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ecode-sat.html
Not sure that's correct or not, just thought it worth noting.
so if mine is a 12/97 build date, does that qualify as "super rare" since it is one of 14? VIN is WP0ZZZ99ZWS602301. To me that looks like 2300 cars were in front of me.
gees thats a ringer for mine. Does yours still have the hard top with it. Mine does. Inside short shifter and 3 spoke steering wheel. Mine has 84000 miles on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by longrowe View Post
so if mine is a 12/97 build date, does that qualify as "super rare" since it is one of 14? VIN is WP0ZZZ99ZWS602301. To me that looks like 2300 cars were in front of me.
Hmm. How would longrowes have a higher serial number but earlier build date, I wonder.
My number is 2779 with a 10/98 build date, which would make sense compared to catfight's.
longrowe, the ZZZ in your indicates it was not delivered to the US originally. The "W" indicates it is technically a 1998 model.
Mine isn't a US spec model. It is a GCC spec. Yes, it is a 1998 996 but the build date is one of the earliest, 12/97, if earlier is better for the IMS. I am hoping to hang on to it until 2023 then bring it to the US when I return.
I think there may be some serious over analysis going on here... The Boxster and 996 were Porsche's first mass produced cars. Those production lines were in the early stages of their evolution and there was much going on in the way of sorting out fluid logistics....
I would bet that engine assembly runs on it's own assembly line and finished engines were then stored in anticipation of cars to be built to put them into... Did Porsche use a "first in, first out" or "last in, first out" engine inventory strategy? Did they even give it that much thought? Plus, as engines go through their assembly line's various stages of quality assurance/control, any kind of attempt at maintaining sequential numbering order would surely get jacked up along the way due to many different QC points and failure opportunities. Same can likely be said for the body. Point being that, when the body was ready for the engine install I think the next available engine was put in and then logged on the build sheet. I doubt that assembly would put a body aside to wait for a specific engine S/N to be installed.
Aside of the year code, who knows what the other digits mean?
There were comments made by Jake about a fire in a Porsche building that resulted in the need for engines which did not pass Q/C to be re-sleeved and put into vehicles, so that could account for a sizable lot of serial # variance in terms of engine numbers vs. build dates.
Side-note: In Germany, they don't call failure prone cars "lemons" like we do here... they call them "Montags-Auto" which translates to "Monday Car." Because thats the first day of the work week and workers are still coming down off of their weekend tend to be less focused... I think it was statistically proven that's the day of the week most manufacturing mistakes happen.
I refer you to "996 The Essential Companion" re: production numbers for the 993 vs 996 and the myth that the 996 was the first mass produced Porsche. Production lines are always evolving, even in the 356 days. Porsche reduced the number of parts suppliers with the 996 vs the 993...and they cut some other corners such as dropping the dry sump engine lubrication.
Porsche also had Toyota in to advise them on how stupid it was to put a Mezger in every car when the vast majority of 911's are never tracked. No, the 996 wasn't the first car Porsche built on a large scale, but it WAS one of the first cars (behind the 986) produced after Porsche doubled down on cost-cutting.
It may be a myth that the 996 was the first Porsche to be mass-produced, but it is NOT a myth that Porsche had never done anything so bold as to engineer two cars - which comprised the opposite ends of the product line (flagship product vs. "entry-level" product) that were identical ahead of the A-pillars. *shrug* I love my 996, but I'm not under any illusions about the 996 being a product of the finance department as much as a product of the engineering department. Pinky Lai had to fight to keep Porsche from using a fixed spoiler on the 996 - Porsche was fully prepared to chuck the iconic 911 profile in favor of cheaper production.
Imagine how the Corvette community would react if Chevy decided that, in order to cut costs, all cars they made would be identical from the A-pillar forward...so a new Stingray would have the same nose as a Cruze or other "entry-model" Chevy...
>> Porsche had never done anything so bold as to engineer two cars - which comprised the opposite ends of the product line (flagship product vs. "entry-level" product) that were identical ahead of the A-pillars.
(except for the 912, and the speedster, and every 'entry-level' car they offered before the VW-Porsche 924)
Look, I get it-- the narrative's established and it's the 996's turn in the barrel. But the 993 was a massive compromise from a company fighting to stay alive. It was replaced on the same terms and for the same reasons as the 356: it cost too damn much to make, and the market had evolved beyond the cramped, creaky, flimsy old car's ability to be *modified* into viability.
Chevy's a full-line carmaker with a niche sportscar, and has been such throughout Corvette's life. That car has always benefitted from economies of scale that were until recently unfathomable to Porsche. Kind of an apples-to-CAD-designed-aluminum-alloy-head comparison.
Lol, really? flimsy huh? massive compromise?
The 993 had a kicks rear suspension, a solid chassis, a 3.6l h6 making as much power as a lot of v8s, a body many consider the most beautiful 911 ever, and enough comforts to keep people happy.
How's that a compromise?
Sound regulations, fuel economy standards, cost cutting, and the power vs. Cost equation resulted in the move to watercooling.
...and the 996 is stiffer (in beam and torsion), lighter, stickier, quicker, faster, more efficient, easier to work on, and more comfortable (thanks in part to having the *logical* interior designed for 993, but which Porsche couldn't afford to put into it).
You'll hear no argument from me about the 993's beauty or desirability. But for fans of a relentlessly-- even ruthlessly-- progressive company to be so aghast at/accusatory about the flagship's evolution just cracks me up.
Loved my 2.2. Loved my 3.2. Love my 996. 911s uber alles.
The owner just posted a dyno video:
http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/i-dyno...les-1788130306
Not a bad outcome really. The car looks like it's in great shape too.
I can't speak for Porsche specifically, but a car built in May would be a late model year production for pretty much everybody. Manufacturers typically start turning out the following model year in June timeframe, sometimes earlier.
5/98 would be early, 5/99 not so much.
You will take one quick look at it and think "what the hell have I gotten myself into". You can do it! Good luck and God speed....wait until you try to get that "last bolt' into the manifold. I'll never know if I got that right.....
JohnIreland Thank you for enlightening me to "Porsche 996 The Essential Companion" by Adrian Streather. This is an incredible book. Hope to snag a used copy soon (new is over $300). Looks like a lot of folks helped make this book so awesome, including 996 owners who dismantled their cars to help with photographs. Very cool. Thanks.
It is a GREAT book. Some of the comments regarding issues to which the car is prone are dated (the book was in 2008), so there may be occasional disconnects between the book and things that have happened regarding the 996 in the interim years.
There are countless nuggets of great information - for example, the sentence or two in that book is pretty much the only source I've found explaining which 996's came equipped with fuel coolers.
This is one of those books (like Sled Driver) where it seems almost criminal that an electronic form is not available.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
