Orientation of oil pump gears?

I managed to get the orientation mixed up of the oil pump gears when I was in there to prepare for the IMS oil feed. One gear only fits one way, but the other fits either way. I can only see a small difference in the hole in the shaft, the inside edge is rounded on one side but not on the other, any one knows the correct way?

Sorry, don't know and cannot find anything in the Porsche repair manual. So, I remember another blown engine thread with some closeup pictures of the oil pump and gears. Maybe that would help. Otherwise, I would contact Jake or Ahsai.

Thanks. I have tried searching and looking at every picture of oil pumps I can find, but found nothing conclusive. I also looked in the repair manual but found nothing. I was hoping Jake or another guru would see the thread and reply, but I might have to send him a PM, I'll wait a bit more before I bother him, I know he is a busy man.

This is the only closeup picture I can find:

And this one

Yeah, seen that one and many more but it is just not clear enough, I would also have to see the other side of the shaft to compare.

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/640x480/oil_pump_gears_2_781c8f7a81408bb2cfd4dfb214766eb332aa3947.jpg

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/640x480/oil_pump_wo_cover_d2f9c6b8c7122afee1b350cd3176bdd9452a9e2a.jpg

Quotes source post: 13688478

It looks from the photos as if you are not using a Jake-designed IMSB oil-feed. And you want him to help you ? Maybe call EPS,Vertex or whoever supplied the oil- feed oil pump drive ? What kind of guy fits a pink oil pump drive anyway?

From my picture post 8 and 9, it looks like the flatter part of the gear shaft goes block side, and the inner shaft beveled edge goes towards the oil pump cover. Do you see those differences?

It doesn't matter what orientation they were assigned at the factory. You must determine how they self-identify.

Yes, that's what I thought also, think you managed to find some pictures that I didn't. Would be nice to know for sure before I put it all together though. Schnell Gelb: This has nothing to do with the IMS, only the construction of the oilpump, so why shouldn't I ask him? He seems like a very helpfull and informed guy. What kind of guy gives a rats *** about the colour of the oil pump drive anyway?

mharrison: Your reply got in between there, but yes, that's true

Quotes source post: 13687864

Because you wouldn't have to do any work on the oil pump if you had used a Raby/LN IMSB kit.You used their competitors kit - that is why you are installing a competitors oil pump drive shaft. And you want Jake to bail you out after buying his competitor's kit ? As I suggested, call the supplier of your IMSB kit, they will help. Your Ford broke and you want the Chevy dealer to tell you how to fix it? http://www.vertexauto.com/ShowItem/2...eed%20Kit.aspx

^ Seems to be the case, however, was just trying to help out on the oil pump gear orientation . Unless I'm mistaken, The Vertex oil pump and gear shaft modification only affects the front bearing of the IMS, and that is hardly ever an issue. So don't know why to do that, but each to his own. I would opt for the LN Engineering billet drive myself.

So if I got it all mixed up because I hade to take it apart because of a leaky gasket, then would it be okay for me to ask him the same question? Why do you even care? If you can't help then just shut up. If Jake won't help because this time I choose not buy his product, even though the question has nothing to do about the product, let him decide that.

Oh, last comment was of course for Schnell.... not you.

If you study this issue of supplementary oil feed to a cylindrical roller bearing IMSB, EPS/Vertex, have walked back their assertion that it is even necessary. They have reduced the depth of the oil groove from the original pink part shown so that one Lister called it just a 'machining mark'. So dismantling the pump was unnecessary anyway.Unfortunately the vendors have not updated their Instructions .For that reason they may be helpful over the phone to the OP who has inadvertently got himself in this predicament. Might ask how to plug the hole he bashed in the back of the oil pump too? See the Vertex link above for the gory details.

The gear shaft modification actually gets oil to the rear IMS bearing thru the IMS shaft.

Quotes source post: 13688758

This is not a Raby or LN problem. I gave you the link to the vendor of your kit so you can call them.Vertex mechanics (yes you can talk to a Mechanic there!) are very helpful over the phone. Or you could call Chevrolet ?

Quotes source post: 13688773

It is not a "gear shaft". If you use that term you'll confuse us. I know you are a noob so will gently suggest you use the correct part name. It is the " Oil Pump Drive Shaft "

Could you pretty please stop posting in my thread Schnell? You obviously have some serious issues, I used the same term Joe did and it's fully clear what we mean.

Okay....huh. I get the theory now. The IM shaft is hollow, so oil is forced to the rear bearing through the shaft and the only way it can exit is through the rear bearing. Interesting. I wonder if the rear bearing seals have to be removed? At least the inner one? I know Vertex is a fairly respectable company, I wonder if they have any stats on implementation of this? I guess with concurrent installation of their "Eternal IMS Bearing Fix" this might make sense.

The bearing that came with this kit was a cylindrical bearing with no seals, don't know how it would work with original type of bearing, but I don't see how the oil could reach the bearing with seals in place.

Yes, agree. So you got the whole kit? Are you doing the install yourself? Would like to know how that is going, including the "oil pump gear shaft". LOL

Yes, doing everything myself: IMS bearing, RMS, AOS and many, many things more before the new engine goes in the car, old engine went kaboom. Everything has gone well, this stupid oil pump gear thing is the last that has to be done before I can put the engine in.

Quotes source post: 13688849

I gave you the link to the Mechanic at Vertex who could give you the advice you need -over the phone.They have fitted hundreds of these kits. I corrected your part name mistake so he will understand what you mean. And then you whine.Bye.

But this has nothing to do with the IMS! I asked a simple question about the oil pump and a gear in it, why I took the oil pump apart has nothing to do with it what so ever! My question was not about the new drive shaft or the gear it sits in, it's about the other gear in the pump. Your comments was clearly not to help in any way, your noob comment makes that perfectly clear. I also don't know why I should contact Vertex with my question, they are not the supplier of my kit at all. I have however sent a question to EPS, the ones who makes the kit, and their response was that it doesn't matter which way the gear goes in. I found that answer a little strange and thus I asked the question here, an open forum for Porsche enthusiasts with many knowledgeable and helpful people, or so I thought.

Keep it technical and save the **** for your Wheaties, "gentlemen"........... both of you. tobbe, you are obviously new here................. there are some rules and norms of behavior........ you started off ok (if a bit demanding) and you put the Jake question out there............. you got an answer you didn't like and continued to push the issue......... you got what you asked for. little to no sympathy. These guys are deeply knowledgeable and opinionated. they also for the most part trust each other.......... you could take a bit of a lesson in that.

If you can wait, I can check mine tonight for you.

Quotes source post: 13689387

Your 1st Post was "I managed to get the orientation mixed up of the oil pump gears when I was in there to prepare for the IMS oil feed" So why say it "nothing to do with the IMS"? You said it does have to do with the IMS You also said:"why I should contact Vertex with my question?" That is why I suggested :"Maybe call EPS ,Vertex " way back in Post #10. Just ask for Mike or Wayne. Please understand that Vertex buy from EPS & fit the EPS kit so they know what your problem is.Vertex deal with your oil pump gears orientation problem(you stated in Post #1) every time they fit one of the hundreds of kits they have installed. As I said, they are very helpful over the phone.And I gave you a link with their phone number.I think you may be confusing helpfulness for something else?

On my '02 roller, the beveled end faces the engine block.

Ahsai: Thank you, it seems that the gear can go either way. The best would obviously have been to keep the gears in the exakt same position as they have always been, since they are worn in together but I�ll have to take a chance and keep an eye on it in the future. Schnell: If some of your comments really was ment to help, then I apologize for not realizing that, some of your comments was however clearly not ment to help, and some to me at least clearly irrelevant. "So why say it "nothing to do with the IMS"? You said it does have to do with the IMS" But that is not relevant to the question I asked! The "Why" has no part in the equation, it could just as likely have been that I had to take it apart to change a leaky gasket. It does not affect the answer to my question. Obviously to You it is all that matters, if I had written "I was in there to change the gasket", You probably wouldn�t have answered at all in this thread. Gretch: Yes, I know there seems to be some very strong feelings about certain subjects here, and some of my comments may have been unnecessary in hindsight, but I asked a simple question about the orientation of a gear in the oil pump, and then get comments I find totally irrelevant, like the colour of the drive shaft, and how I shouldn�t have been in this situation if I had bought the "right" IMS solution etc. Why I took the oil pump apart is not relevant to my question. Yes I may be new on this forum, but far to old and experienced with cars and interaction on other forums to let someone else dictate what question I may ask and to whom I ask it, and that is exactly what Schnell did and why I reacted like I did.

Guys , just going back to the comment on installing the oil feed hex drive to a standard car with no roller bearing installed at the other end. I think it could still be a good idea. Now I know that the standard bearing has seals but one of the problems with these bearings is that these seals let oil in and wash out all of the grease which doesn't help with the failure, I'm not saying it's the cause as there is the argument with load also but it's a definite factor I would say. My point is the oil does get in there so for a small cost why not have more oil going through to help the bearing. When I installed my roller bearing and took out my standard bearing both the bearing and the shaft were full of oil so it definitely gets in !

Noz1974: Could you please post that in this thread instead: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...s-bearing.html I started this thread only to get an answer regarding the oilpump, not to discuss IMS, right now im sorry even mentioning IMS in it

Quotes source post: 13690308

I concur.