Thoughts on speaker and amp upgrade?

I'm contemplating swapping out the speakers and amplifier in my 2002 with Bose. I've had an Alpine CDE-HD192BT headunit for a while and I'm happy with that. I'm looking for insight on speaker wiring. I want to reuse the OEM enclosures, which I realize limits the speakers that I can consider. I'm thinking of wiring the front door and dash speakers together so that they form the front array. Would I just wire the dash and front door speakers in parallel on each side? Obviously that will change the impedance and mean that the impedance of the rear and front channel will be different. Moving onto the subwoofer, I would keep it as is because I don't think it is possible to replace it with an aftermarket speaker given its small size. I believe that its impedance is 1 Ohm but have not measured it yet. What issues do you foresee in driving this an a 5-channel setup? The current amplifier is pretty small and according the specs is rated for 25W per channel. The speakers I mentioned are rated for 50W so presumably something like an Alpine MRV-F300 would work? What about wiring? Can I stick with the factory speaker wires? Thanks for any thoughts and advice.

My 2 cents: 1) No matter what head unit you choose it will be a big improvement over the original. The double din updates the look and are easy to fit in. 2) The more amp you can fit the better. The car is fairly loud and a lot of the better speakers are not very efficient. So at min, look for a good 5 channel amp. Ideal setup is a 4 channel amp and separate sub amp. 3) I would not connect the door speakers to the same channel as the front speakers. They are too fare from the front speakers - would creat a strange imaging issue. Use a separate amp with the door speakers and cross them over fairly low. 4) Consider replacing the factory speakers. This will give the biggest bang for the buck... The factor speakers are just ok, almost any aftermarket speaker is an improvement but there are a few 4" speakers out there that are truly outstanding. 5) I would consider replacing the rear Bose sub with a custom subwoofer. The Bose box just can't creat the level of low base a well designed custom box can. No matter what you do it will be an improvement and a fun project. Here are some picts of my system: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B035CmvASxA943 Is a work in process (maybe overkill) but really sounds great...

Thanks talkenrain. I've had my Alpine HU for a while and it did make a difference over the factory radio but I don't think it sound anything like it can. Given that it is a cab, I'm under no illusions that this will never sound amazing but there's room for improvement. Interesting comment about the sound stage if the door and dash speakers are connected together. I'm trying to understand the setup that you're describing: you're driving the dash speaker from one set of amp channels, the front door and rear door speakers are driven from the other set of channels but the front door speakers, which are larger, are crossed over so that their mostly a low-mid source? I'm contemplating something like a Focal coaxial for the dash and rear doors (since I think the enclosures are the same). Since I have a cab, the sub configure different to the coupe and it a single speaker in the passenger footwell. I would plan to drive this through the remaining channel of the 5-channel amp. Any speaker and amp recommendations?

I upgraded to a Focal amp and speakers in my 996. It made a huge difference.

Focal 4" speakers are an excellent choice (a bit bright for me but a good product). They make a range of 4" products but even the lowest priced are really good. In general they are not very efficient so I would recommend a quality to drive them. I used MB Quart speakers in the front and back and a single 12" JL Audio for the sub in a custom box. An Alpine 4 channel amp and an Alpine sub amp. It's very important to use thick wire to supply power to the amps. My amps are mounted in the bonnet, I used #4 gauge wire directly to the battery. Back to your setup. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the original intent of the door speakers are as subwoofers. I would keep them doing that task if you don't have space for a larger sub. Leaving the focal speakers to handle the higher frequencies in the front dash and rear locations. If you didn't notice a difference in the head unit it's most likely because the original factory speakers are so awful they completely masked the improvement the head unit made...

Anything you do will be an improvement. Corollary: Nothing you do will make it sound amazing .

Well I went into the local Car Toys to pick up two pairs of Focal ISC100s for the front dash and rear locations and left empty handed. I ended up in a conversation with their installer about what I was doing. He'd done installations in 997s and 996s and we got talking about overall systems. What we ended up were the component Focals for the front door and dash (3-way with a crossover), can't remember what in the back, Kicker IQ1000.1 amp and a custom sub enclosure with larger sub in the passenger footwell. We ballparked the cost with install at $3k. Quite an upsell from $300 for a couple of pairs of ISC100s! I don't really see myself spending that much - at least not in one go. So I think I'll go for a pair of ISC100s in the front and do some A/B testing by fading to the front and playing.

Ha ha, good old car toys - up sell city. I went there when I started my journey to my system. I did get some ideas and got to listen to a lot of equipment but in the end couldn't believe all the crap up selling and my prior knowledge of audio disagreed with most of what they told me the real clincher for me was when I asked to see pictures of some of the 996/997 installs. They could only show 1 and it was a hack job. If they have done them in the past, they will have pictures. Back to the real story... The component systems are great and in a very quiet car you may be able to appreciate the difference but for me, I wanted to stay within the capabilities of my environment. Knowing how loud my car is with the exhaust system, there was no chance I'd be doing that much critical listening. I wanted a system that could play loud enough and gave the base kick I wanted and a smooth response without distorting and without going to the extremes. Get the 4" coax focal and be done with it, or spend a ton and then try to convince your friends all the modifications to your car was worth it.... A lot of people here have tried a lot of different products but all come back to the best bang for the buck. IMHO 4" coax Hertz = good (a little bright) 4" coax Focal = better (all around good fit) 4" coax MB Quart = best (hard to find, not efficacy at all)

So (2) 4" focal in the dash, (2) 4" focal in the rear, still use factory tweeters, subs and door speakers? Does this work with the factory amp or does it need more?

I'd do it in steps: First, replace the dash speakers with 2, 4" coax focal speakers for starters. If you install them yourself (it's easy), I would remove the Bose woofers & tweeters from each speaker plate and use the original baskets to mount the focal speakers. If you like what you hear stop... You really don't need very high performance speakers in the rear. Using speakers with bright tweeters in the back distorts the sound stage. You want the majority of sound to come from the front, the rear is best used for fill (mid base) so spending a lot behind you on main drivers is not the best investment. After replacing the front speakers you'll get a feel for if you want/need more amplification. The focal speakers are not as efficient as the factory speakers so if it doesn't play loud enough for you, get a bigger amp... If after replacing the front dash speakers, you feel like you want to invest in the rear, go for it. I'd spend the rest of my budget on the subwoofer and amp (if needed). Again, if your happy with the 4" speaker upgrade. Stop!!! If you feel the need for more, keep going. For me the biggest improvement was the front dash speakers. The second best was my sub. Adding really good amplifiers made a good difference also, the rear speakers where the least bang for the $$$ Are you in the Portland area? I'd be happy to meet and share what I've learned rather than using the forum...

Thanks talkenrain. I'm in the Seattle area so not that far but not around the corner either I put the Focal ISC100 on the driver side dash and played, set the fader to front and played with the balance. My observations: 1. As you pointed out, they are not as loud as the stock speaker due to impedance, so I can definitely see needing a bigger amp. 2. They are clearer than the stock speakers but most of what I hear comes through the door speakers. I turned down all the bass but the door speakers are still what I hear the most and they sound muddy. So I can see replacing those. 3. The ISC100s do not want to fit into the stock enclosure. I measured the factory speaker the dimensions are quite a bit smaller than any of the 4" speakers that seem to be available, which means that I'm not sure how I would get them to mount even if I modified the black plastic factory speaker cradle. I tried to rig up a mounting solution without the speaker cradle but it didn't really look very robust. Do you recall the specific model of the MB Quarts that you're using so that I can compare dimensions? Thanks!

This is what I did. Porsche Boxster Speaker Replacement - YouTube This video is for the 986 but the speakers and panel are the same in the 996. Each panel is custom for each corner of the car so don't get them confused. The difference is the tilt of the speaker mount. Once the focals are properly mounted they will really shine... If you're not satisfied with the results give them a few days before deciding what your next step will be (they will break-in and you'll get to know what (if any) improvements you'll want to make).

If your doing an amp swap this plug should allow a plug and play installation. This is where you run your speaker leads to from your aftermarket amp. Then simply plug it into your car where your Oem amp was. http://productfinder.autoleads.co.uk...528&pID=290217

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...02-c4-cab.html

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Thank you but I'm in San Diego. I love to visit Portland when I can. Ultimately I was thinking 2 or 4 speakers, head unit, sub and whatever amp is needed. I have the Bose system from a 02 with the rear sub deck removed to easily access my shock adjusters. I'm planning on getting a low profile 10" pioneer or JL and mounting it in the back seat. I'll post with specifics and get input before buying anything.

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Thanks for pointing this out. This is a subtle but important point that I haven't seen mentioned in other speaker install threads.

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I actually saw the speaker modification video just after I last posted. In the case of the Bose speakers, the black plastic surrounds are separate: the speakers screw into them, but I imagine that the same modification would work. I also found that CAI sells a surround that takes a standard 4" speaker . It is expensive for what it is though. Today, I took a look at the Bose amplifier wiring. There are two amplifiers: a big one with with two connectors, and a smaller one stacked on top of it with a single connector. Looking at the wiring diagrams, here are the connections: Sub amp black connector Power Switched power Ground Sub channel input Sub speaker output Main amp grey connector Power through Fuse D9 Ground Sub channel input Rear speakers output (the left and right rear speakers are wired in parallel) Main amp blue/pink connector Front left door speaker Front right door speaker Front dash left 2-way speaker Front dash right 2-way speaker Front left channel input Front right channel input Rear left channel input Rear right channel input Switched power Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to obtain opposite gender versions of these connectors so that I can make a wiring harness for the aftermarket amp? I would connect the aftermarket amp directly to the battery and just use connectors for switched power to turn on the amp, signal inputs and speaker outputs. Blue/pink and grey connectors to main amp. Black connector to sub/supplementary amp.

Black connector for sub/supplementary amp, and grey connector for main amp. Blue/pink connector for main amp. Connectors for factory head unit.

There are a number of companies that make adapter. Goto a car stereo shop to get a list of manufactures but here is one for reference. http://www.scosche.com/car-audio/cables-adapters

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That's for the headunit though right? I've done that part. I want to not cut wires going to the Bose amp in the frunk and instead create a harness that will plug the aftermarket amp into the current connectors. Those connectors are proving to be hard to source. Update: I think the blue/pink one is a 24-pin quad lock connector, so I might be able to use this . The black one looks like some kind of Molex connector. I have no idea about the grey one.

Someone on DIY Mobile Audio found this harness from Metra that looks like it will fit the main amp http://www.metraonline.com/part/Olds...arness_70-2054 The supplementary amp connector with the big round pins is still unidentified though.

Played around with the factory speakers today having looked at the wiring diagram. I used the fader and balance on my head unit to experiment. As was suggested, the rear speakers really don't seem to do much. I faded all the way rear and they're super low volume. I'm inclined to disconnect them completely when I install a new amp. My current thinking is to use the 4" Focals in the dash, get suitably sized Focal coaxials for the door and run them as separate channels. I would wire the amp with a single stereo input from the head unit and let the amp do the routing. Now that I've found an amp harness that lets me mostly reuse the current wiring, what are your thoughts on using the factory harness for line level inputs from the head unit to the amplifier versus running RCA cables from the amp to the head unit? I could always try both whole everything is out and do an A/B test. I'm considering the Kicker IQ1000.5 amp because of its built in DSP so that I can play with the crossovers extensively, but have not seen any reviews. Something like a JL Audio XD700/5v2 or Alpine PDX-V9 might be good too.

You may not be hearing much from the rear because your original speakers are burnt out or the cone surounds have dried out to the point they no longer support the cone so little or no sound comes from them. Having good working speakers in the rear will fill in the rear nicely. Just the front two 4' focal speakers alone may not play loud enough for top down driving (being only 4" they will distort even with a clean power amp). If your going for a 5 channel amp, why not use all 5 channels? If your going for that nice of amplifier, i'd recommend: JL audio XD700/5v2 power amp. (2 ch for front, 2 ch for rear, 1 ch sub). 4 focal 4" speakers - 2 in the dash, 2 in the back. Wire the 5th channel (subwoofer) of the power amp to the door speakers (as subwoofers).

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That's a good point about the rears being in bad shape. I will try one of the fronts on the rear to see if that makes a difference. Would you leave the door speakers stock? Since I hear so much sound through them, I thought that upgrading them would make sense. So my reasoning about forgetting about the rears and using channels 1/2 of the amp for the dash and 3/4 for the doors was that I was looking at 5.25" Focal coaxials for the doors. I was planning to run them from 100Hz as low-mids from the channels 3/4 of the amp and use the amp to set crossovers so as not to overlap the frequency bands to the dash speakers. My concern is that I'm not going to get enough low-mid from the dash speakers so I'd fill them with the door speakers and leave the stock sub to do its thing.

You are right about focals and mid to low base. "4 drivers don't deliver anything very well below about 150hz, The good news is you'll have complete control over where the sub woofer kick in (using the cross over controls on the amp). You can have the subwoofer role in a little high to fill in the mid base without the need for a separate mid base driver. The door speakers working as subs and also reproduce low to mid base very easily. Don't get hung up on the names of the drivers. They are all just speakers, a 5" or 6" driver does a great job at mid base but can also reproduce very low frequencies in the right inclosure. The larger drivers move more air (louder) but have more of a problem with mid base. Your door speakers "should" be able for cover whats needed moving enough air for the lower base but also reproducing mid base without a problem. Again, I'd experiment. don't buy more drivers till you've tried what you already have. If you don't like it you can always add the separates… In my car I have 4 - 4" MB Quart coax speakers and 1 - 12" JL sub in a custom back firing sealed inclosure. I think my system would challenge some very high end setups - Not much lacking in mid base and tons or low low low base. Sometimes I think when the sub hits the right note I actually get a few more HP as it feels like it's pushing the car forward (ha ha)… All kidding aside, i think my sounds really great...

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RMS Watts directly affect HP

I took a look at the sub/supplementary amp again today in order to identify the connector. The female portion from the car wiring is an AMP 1-828878-1 or BMW 1378138. The male portion on the amp end is an AMP 1-828879-1 or BMW 1378136. This is connected to a white Molex KK female header that is 12-way by 1 row with a 3.96mm pin pitch. The AMP connectors are shown as restricted on the manufacturer's website (te.com) so, presumably it is a custom part for BMW. I have found the BMW part on eBay and that is the route that I will go. So to recap, the main amp harness is available from Metra as 70-2054 and the supplementary amp connector does not seem to be readily available but comes up on eBay.

Summary of wiring harness connections.

Its been awhile for me since I dealt with the Amp but at one time I identified this info on 6speed: "I took a closer look to the amplifier and I found some small number printed on the amp connectors end. on the 18 pins are :AMP 1-963539-2, if you type those numbers on www.tycoelectronics.com it show this: http://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-9...products-inner once you're on this page look on "Documentation & Additional Information" data sheets. Open the PDF. This PDF page shows on bottom page the mating receptacle number housing, which is 1355348. then, type 1355348 on that website and you will be able to see the receptacle housing for that plug. then request a free sample." Here is a discussion on the topic: http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic.../?hl=amplifier Also there is this for the locking connector: http://www.te.com/usa-en/product-1-1...products-inner

Thanks sjg. It appears that there are different types of connectors depending on the amplifier that is installed (Bose vs non-Bose) as well as the year. The Bose units used between 1999 and 2001 are different to the ones between 2002 to 2003, and then it 2004 it changed again and added MOST. What's even stranger is that the way that the speakers are connected changed over the years! In my 2002 car, the left and right rear speakers are connected together in parallel! I'm not sure where exactly this bridging takes place in the car, but by the time you get to the frunk, there is a single pair of wires for the rear speakers. Prior to 2002 and from 2004 on, the left and right rear speakers are separated. I don't fancy trying to run wires to the rear speakers, so unless it is pretty obvious where they are bridged, it looks like I'll have to run them as a mono channel. Based on this I'm now thinking of revising what I was going to try: Front dash speakers to Channels 1 and 2, the rears to Channels 3 and 4, and connect the front door speakers and subwoofer in parallel to the sub channel. Two options that I'm considering: 1. Leave the rears disconnected. Channels 1 and 2 to the front dash, Channels 3 and 4 to the front doors (setting the crossover appropriately), and the subwoofer to the sub channel. I do not know if the sub alone will have sufficient impedance for the amp to drive it properly. 2. A modified version of my initial plan: Channels 1 and 2 to the front dash, bridge Channels 3 and 4 and connect them to the rears, connect the doors and subwoofer in parallel to the sub channel. I suppose I can try both and see what sounds better. Thoughts on the above?

Finished installation.

I installed Focal ISC100s in the front dash location using the Car Audio Innovations speaker adapters. At the moment, the door, sub and rear speakers are stock. I did not want to cut factory harnesses so I got a Metra 70-2054 harness that includes the pink and white plugs shown in one of the previous pictures that I posted. The black plug that connects the subwoofer to the factory supplementary amplifier is a BMW part, which I was able to source on eBay. Rather than trying to re-use the crimped connectors, I bought suitable pins. These are Delphi 12040902-L, Delphi 12020116-L and BMW 63-13-1-376-193. The harness was about $30 and the pins were another $30 (although I have many leftover!) I bought a sheet of steel from Lowes and cut it down to make a suitable mounting plate for the amplifier (JL Audio XD700/5v2). I got some plastic standoffs so that the the power and signal wires are behind the plate, and some long M6 bolts to screw the whole thing into the factory mounting location for the CD player and amplifier. I used a knockout punch to make large holes in the steel plate for the various wires and used rubber grommets to prevent chaffing. The power is fed through 4 AWG wires. The wire from the positive battery terminal goes through one of the rubber grommets in the car, and through the factory hole for the CD changer cables. The negative/ground wire goes to a ground point on the left hand side of the frunk behind the trim. I installed a fuse holder next to the amplifier on the mounting plate with the specified 50A fuse. It would be nice if all the signal wires could be hidden behind trim so I may try to fashion something. The 2002 with Bose seems to have a uniquely weird read speaker setup in that there is a rear speaker on each side of the car, but they are wired in parallel somewhere, so only one set of wires comes through to the amplifier. Also, since I'm currently using the stock door and rear speakers and the sub, the impedances are too low to drive separately. I'm using the just one amplifier input (front channel of my Alpine head unit) and this is being split by the amplifier. The speakers are setup as follows: Channels 1 and 2: Dash left and right (Focals) Channel 3: Rear speaker (Factory pre-wired in parallel) Channel 4: N/C Channel 5: Door speakers and subwoofers wired in series to make impedances work out. I used a 0dB 1kHz test tone per the amplifier instructions to set up the channel trim levels on the amp and so far so good. The biggest benefit is that the system plays loud enough to be heard with the top down at freeway speeds.

Nice job!

I can't seem to stop making changes/improvements to mine. Sounding great right now but am already planning more changes... https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0g5CmvASxA943

There's a nice 996tt for sale on ebay...salvage...fire...best guess is that it was caused by an aftermarket amp installantion. If you can't hear the audio system Porsche put in the car then get a hearing aid, but leave the car's electricals alone.