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YOUR RESEARCHC2 vs C4-opinions please
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Use ones available
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There are used ones available which can be had for less than new cost.
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Suggestion
But would not discredit C4/C4S if it's a clean car.
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Suggestion
One side effect of the split tank setup Macster described: if you disconnect the battery for any reason once the car is down to less than half a tank, it will display "empty" when you reconnect the battery.
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Suggestion
I always fill the tank up when I fuel up the car so I have not ever experienced this.
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Suggestion
But if the fuel tank is low and one doesn't fill the tank up the added fuel may not register.
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Suggestion
One side effect of the split tank setup Macster described: if you disconnect the battery for any reason once the car is down to less than half a tank, it will display "empty" when you reconnect the battery.
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Suggestion
One side effect of the split tank setup Macster described: if you disconnect the battery for any reason once the car is down to less than half a tank, it will display "empty" when you reconnect the battery.
Run through puddles at hw speeds without worring about hydroplaning
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In the rain, well mebbe nothing, but I have deluded myself into thinking I can run through puddles at HW speeds without worring about hydroplaning........
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For street, I don't think it matters much. C4 will have better grip in the rain and snow.
For the track, C4 is more forgiving, C2 let's you push the limits and feel the magic of the 911.
In 15.5 years I've had to change the flex disk once. Nothing else in the AWD system has needed attention and its driven year round in all weather conditions.
should be no difference in cost, should be no diff in performance in dry. Front only engages when traction is lost, you just get alot more for the money in a 4
I've had both and prefer 2WD. But would not discredit C4/C4S if it's a clean car.
I make 2WD conversions for the AWD. So you can have the best of both worlds.
C2 + welded cage = full blown woody (that means extra stiff.). :P
I get my C4 5/15/17 which seems like 5 years from now. I'll leave it AWD for awhile before I convert to 2WD just to see if I can tell the difference on the street. I'm way too in love with rear engine RWD to try even mess with AWD on the track though.
With more hardware -- front axle/diff, cardan shaft -- there is always more to go wrong. If the front diff/viscous coupling "dies" a new front diff is thousands.
There are used ones available which can be had for less than new cost.
The AWD setup brings with it a more complex fuel tank and fuel supply system. The tank divides into two separate basins. These are not connected so to get fuel out of each basin there is a siphon jet.
In some cases a hose can fail and the car runs out of gas at around 1/2 tank. There is plenty of gas left just the non-functioning siphon jet can't remove it and supply the fuel to the engine.
Because of the split tank the fuel level is derived by the OBC and how the car is being driven. This appears to work ok actually. But if the fuel tank is low and one doesn't fill the tank up the added fuel may not register. I always fill the tank up when I fuel up the car so I have not ever experienced this.
As for performance enhancement I think it miminmal. The front diff is driven by a viscous coupling which relies upon a special fluid that when it gets hot (300F+) it becomes quite, well viscous, and torque is transfered to the front diff.
Porsche says anywhere from 5% to 40% with the 40% coming only when the car is going approx. 150mph.
When I bought my Turbo of course it came with the AWD system. If I knew then what I know now had there been a factory RWD only version of the Turbo I would have preferred that. (Well, there is the GT2 but for various reasons this wasn't a viable alternative.)
A major difference I've noted is the chrome "Carrera" logo on the back of a C4 vs. the black logo on the engine cover of the C2. To offset this I removed the black logo and put a chrome logo on my C2. Going for the rapper-Hummer look.
The answer to the implied question "which one is ideal / better / etc." seems self evident:
- Do you drive in snow or live in Seattle? If yes, C4(S) offers more utility
- Do you have a 2nd car or live in an area that has limited bad weather? If yes, C2's lighter weight & more classic handling characteristics might offer more fun.
I'm in a mountainous state with about 2-3 cold months/year when I'll let my C2 hibernate. For me the C2 is perfect. I don't really want to drive it with temps near 0F anyhow due to the scoring potential.
I've heard a rumor that you can disable the front wheels on the C4 for dyno tests by slightly pulling up the e-brake, fwiw
I can speak only from test drives. C2 feels agile and with less weight up front, really planted under your butt. I never drove on on the track, but boy did I want to. (This goes for all the RWD 911s I've driven over the years.)
My C4S is a blast to drive, but I do feel the added weight up front. Coming from BMW world, that in itself isn't bothersome, but there is something of that gotta-race-this-thing feeling that's lost. But I wanted a 911 that would take me across mountain roads in winter and C4S seemed the way to go for that. Schedule kept me from taking her out to the track this year. Just this past weekend was a PCA event at my second-favorite track (that I've driven on—HPR) and it would have been a perfect cap on the summer before switching to the winter tire set.
Not sure if this is helpful. Money aside, I'd love to have BOTH!
If I remember correctly the added weight of the AWD setup is give or take 118 pounds. Driving under normal conditions on a road - I can't imagine they're too different if at all. The biggest difference for normal use would be less frunk space up front. So, my opinion, is they're virtually the same for normal daily driving and to get whatever you want.
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The AWD won't help you a bit if you get the rear wheels stuck. If you spin the rear wheels too long/much this just burns up the viscous coupling.
There are a number of YouTube videos of 996 C4 and Turbo owners hooning around in the snow. Some show the rear wheels spinning furiously while the front wheels/tires are stationary or nearly so. Hardly any torque is being transmitted to the axle just the viscous coupling being abused.
And pulling on the e-brake handle has no effect on the AWD feature. The coupling between the rear diff and the front diff is through a viscous coupling that is always active.
If one ever needs to dyno a C4/Turbo it must be done on a dyno that has the rear rollers driving the front rollers.
I think C2 base is like 2,900 and a C4s is 3,200.... that's a huge difference in a car with only 320 HP....
I own a C2 and my best friend bought a C4s last month... I went for a ride in his car yesterday, back to back comparison after driving my car and the two cars are actually completely different feeling... they DO NOT drive like each other...I was shocked. Mine is a 2003 and he has a 2002
I ain't never seen Gnat cover his face in lemon juice.
The C2 has a "2" instead of a "4."
[Hey... is this post visible to you guys? I put lemon juice on my keyboard, so it might be invisible.]
Did some more Dunning Kruger research, and found something of interest. Although it may not apply to Mr. Tiny Annoying Bug, I believe there is one forum member that we can all see described to a T:
Unfortunately, that member will be unable to recognize himself due to his Dunning Kruger affliction.
It's me, isn't it?!!! (sniffle sniffle).
You didn't think my C2/C4 image was funny. (sniffle loudly) I'm so hurt, I'm going to curl up in a corner in a fetal position and suck my thumb!
Oh the humanity!!!!!!!!!
shaaaa bam!
As usual, Macster get the gold star for content................
the rest, "not so much......."
I have a 2000 C4. I wish I had the benefit of the knowledge in this thread when I was thinking of buying it.
I don't drive it in the winter generally anyway, but with summer tires on it, C4 or not, it is fookin' HOPELESS!
In the rain, well mebbe nothing, but I have deluded myself into thinking I can run through puddles at HW speeds without worring about hydroplaning........ I guess that is BS?????? huh. Macster, what do you think about that condition???? does the AWD make a difference?
Our 01 has never had anything but PS2s on it and gets driven year round only slightly south of you (outside DC).
You can't act like an idiot, but it does just fine at highway speeds in freezing temps and still stops better than the average car on warm roads...
No problems with ice and snow either (again as long as you drive reasonably).
I'm not advocating that there is no reason for true winter tires (and we'd have a set if we had somewhere to keep them), but 15 winters have shown they also aren't the immediate accident that some portray.
DC is considerably south of my "location" and the real issue I found is with slopes covered in snow....... flat ground and a little snow on roads, NBD........ I wouldn't drive any sports car in the winter (MY winter) with out snow tires........
The A6 was awesome with blizzaks, the 335xi with the crappy run flat tires???????/ HORRIBLE!
Oh... For some reason I was placing you in PA.
In that case, yeah it would be a different story and I can't compare my winters to yours
That's not weather related though. Those run flats are just garbage. Absolutely transformed our 328xi when we ditched those POSes and went with normal tires.
One side effect of the split tank setup Macster described: if you disconnect the battery for any reason once the car is down to less than half a tank, it will display "empty" when you reconnect the battery. Since the data needed to estimate remaining range has been lost, the car will display "Empty" until it is next fueled. This can be unnerving; even though it doesn't happen very often, it's irksome when it DOES happen.
For every negative there's a positive: the C4's fuel tank - at least the part you care about for maintaining the fuel pump - is available from the front trunk, making the installation of a new fuel pump a piece of cake.
I did not like how the PSM system acted when the AWD system was intact...the car seemed more twitchy and the PSM seemed to intervene before it seemed necessary. I have not seen other people complain of this, but I much prefer how the car drives with the FWD components deleted.
I found hydroplaning in the C4 (when it still had the FWD junk installed) just as unnerving as hydroplaning in my Corvette. Once the car is planing, you are along for the ride until you're clear of the deeper standing water or you lose enough speed for the tire to come back into contact with the road.
