Front brake estimates

So...I need new front brakes. Got 3 estimates. 2 of the estimates are from true indy's. Their estimates were only $7 apart. The 3rd guy is a highly respected Porsche "Indy" that works from his house. His estimate was WAY below (a third of what the others are charging) the others and now I am wondering how he can do the work much lower than others. What questions should I ask to make sure the comparisons are apples to apples? Off the top of my head I am thinking of asking if the house indy is planning to replace both rotors and pads or just the pads.

Ask the indy for what brand pads and rotors he is using. There's a fairly good chance he is using real time and not "shop time" for labor. Truthfully, you should be able to a full brake job, front and rear, in about an hour. Do you plan to track or AutoX the car or is it strictly for street use?

The cheap guy told me that there are two types of OEM pads for the car and he has both in stock and he plans to put one or the other on. He spouted the names of them off to me, but I didn't write them down. I will find out what rotors he's planning to use. I am doing my first AutoX in a few weeks.

I highly recommend you look into doing the work yourself. Porsche brakes are quite easy to do and rather low on the home mechanic difficulty meter. The best work is always done by the guy who's butt is on the line.

I was just looking at doing pads and rotors myself. Plan to go with cool carbon pads, for dust reasons. Fairly inexpensive overall, and a simple project If you plan autoX, you may want to ensure better parts are used. What is the opinions on rotors for this? Meyer, sabro, brembo?

I concur with RDL if you are somewhat mechanically inclined search a few DIYs and turn wrenches on that 996. Plus purchasing the items (brand and quality) either OEM or aftermarket might be cheaper for you. Also any tools that you may have to purchase for the job will pay for themselves a few times over.

Brakes on a 996 couldn't be easier. If rotors are ok, you don't even need to take the calipers off........

This will give you an idea of what pads cost: http://www.warehouse33auto.com/parts...910/3/0/1684/0 And what rotors cost: http://www.warehouse33auto.com/parts...910/3/0/1896/0 You have to add shipping but can take 10% off the cost of the parts using the promo code RENNLIST Figure a couple of hours labor at most for each axle if you are replacing the rotors, plus whatever the shop's markup is on the parts. If just replacing the pads, then 1 hour total for labor front & back. Or, do as the others suggest: save the labor and parts markup and DIY.

There are lots of choices for rotors http://www.paragon-products.com/Brak...351.406.01.htm and pads http://www.paragon-products.com/Brak...352.949.02.htm Like the others mentioned, you may just want to do it yourself.

Thanks. This info gives me more comfort. Based on the links that kcattorney sent the brakes and rotors seem to suggest that his estimate is legit, but still tight for him to make any money. He must be figuring about 30 mins of labor or so because he quoted me approx $275 + state tax. The brake work caught me by surprise because I've owned the car only 2.5 months. I will look to try to do some of my own rears when the time comes.

A 996 front brake job generally includes: Pads, Rotors, Rotor set screws, caliper bolts, wear sensors, vibration dampers The price will vary depending on whether the shop is going to reuse your existing rotors or install new rotors; replace the caliper bolts or use the existing ones; reuse the wear sensors (if possible) or use new ones, etc. My guess is that the lower cost guy isn't planning to replace the rotors, wear sensors, and caliper bolts. It would be good for you to determine what each shop thinks is involved to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. There are also some decisions YOU need to make, such as whether you want to keep using the wear sensors or just want to zip tie them up out of the way. I no longer use the adhesive vibration dampers because they add to the cost of the brake job, make the brakes take longer to change, and (in my opinion) don't really cut down on brake noise. A front-end brake job at shop A might be: * New pads While at Shop B: * New pads * New rotors * New caliper bolts * New wear sensors * New vibration dampers * Fluid flush and fill

You Tube You Tube

Pelican has good walkthroughs on replacing rotors and pads. As others have said, it is pretty straightforward. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...rake_Discs.htm http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...Brake_Pads.htm

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There are some things to consider. One is Porsche calls for all the brake hardware to be replaced when the brakes are done. The pad retainer, the pin that holds the pad retainer in place and the spring clip that holds the pin in place along with the wear sensors. In some cases Porsche has dropped from the parts list the anti-vibration pads that stick to the pad backing plate and have a metal basket that presses into the open end of the piston. Pretty sure Porsche also calls for the rotors to be replaced too. If the rotors get replaced the caliper bolts get replaced along with the one or two small counter sunk flat head screws that hold the rotor to the hub when the wheel is removed. Regarding replacing just the pads: While the rotors may not be worn down to below their minimum thickness the odds are very high they will be before the new pads wear out. (Roughly a 1mm "lip" at the edge of the rotor is a good sign that if the rotor is not not worn out it are really close to it. Needless to say pads/rotors are replaced on an per axle basis.) Anyhow if you keep the old rotors in service for some time you are driving on worn pads and worn out rotors. While the cost is more my advice is to do the job right vs. just cheap and to follow Porsche in this regard and replace both pads, rotors, and all the assorted hardware. It has been a few years since I did the brakes on my Porsche Boxster but Porsche offered at that time a kit -- one per axle -- that includes all the hardware except maybe the caliper bolts. These bolts were not super expensive. Also, don't forget: After you have the brakes done and before you do the DE you should have the brake fluid (and clutch fluid if your car equipped with a manual transmission) flushed and bled. For factory pads/rotors and all the rest of the hardware I no longer remember the cost per axle for my Boxster and chances are high the cost for a 996 would be different (and likely higher) even if I could remember anyway.

I did my brakes having never before done brakes on any car. I used the videos posted above and it was very easy. I replaced everything front and back, including the bolts and dampers, using OEM parts. I'm sure that is overkill but I feel comfortable doing it that way. All in I believe it was about $1300 for the parts and shipping, including the brake fluid. The dampers are surprisingly expensive. Many people save money by reusing some of the parts and buying non-OEM replacements and I'm sure that's fine. I'm old and I probably won't have to do it again. To illustrate how OCD I am when it comes to this car, I even bought the same gloves and impact screwdriver shown in the videos.

Stick with the pads and do the rotors only if they are out of spec. All of the other items are "precautionary". If you do the pads only, you may want to "bed" them which is basically going from about 80mph to 20mph rapidly 6 times in a row. Then put the car up and let everything cool completely down.

And there is the question of insurance. A shop, dealer or indy, carries a variety of insurance policies. If the "guy in the garage" does your brakes, and they fail on the way home, sending your car into a crowd of kids at a school bus stop, he's unlikely to have insurance to cover the loss. The parents would look to you for restitution. If the car falls off a jackstand during the repairs, and injures him, then he may look to your insurance for compensation. If you went to court, he might not prevail in either instance, but you'll incur a huge bill defending yourself. The price is so low, I'd expect that he's cutting corners somewhere along the line. If you're uncomfortable doing the work yourself, then I'd recommend establishing a relationship with an indy, and having them do the work.

You might also pull up each shop on google maps and see how many train tracks you have to cross to get to each of them. Your chance of being hit by a train increases exponentially if you cross a train track. Therefore if you can find one that has a route without crossing any tracks, then you have to consider that you most likely will not be hit by a train on your way(to and from) to drop it off OR on your way(to and from) to pick it up. Just something to think about.

Slakker, you crack me up!

I'm not looking to cut corners or shop for deals. I called cheap guy without ever working with him or knowing his prices. I was just told that he was the guy to go to for Porsche work. I have a feeling I am getting pads only which is fine, but if the rotors are out of spec I'll have him change those out. I've decided to zip tie the sensors out of the way. I don't need my second car whining to me about "brake wear". I'll depend on an annual inspection for that info or routine maintenance reviews by shops throughout the year. Cheap guy is used by many members of my local PCA. I met a random guy this past weekend at a soccer tourney who was also wearing PCA gear and he introduced himself. We started talking and I asked him who he used for service and he named the guy that quoted me cheap brakes. The PCA dude has owned his Porsche since something like 1993 and used this guy almost exclusively throughout that time.

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Did a full set for under $600 using Mahle rotors and pads. Came with sensors, but chose to reuse the OEM sensors and vibration dampers. Budda Bing!

If the sensors are still functional, they can easily be extracted from the old pads with a micro screwdriver and inserted in the new pads.......

Rub your finger on the rotor(when cooled down!)across the face from the inside to the outside edge. If you feel a "lip"on the very outside edge, the rotor could be worn and might be worth it to check the thickness. Usually the minimum thickness is stamped on the rotor. If no lip, replace the pads and you should be good to go. As a couple have already stated, you should be able to replace the pads without removing the calipers, unless the dampeners are really glued on.

FYI I have a bill from the previous owner of my car who got the front brakes replaced at the dealership for 629$ two years ago (August 2014). 152$ labor + 471$ parts (2x152$ rotors + 123$ pads + 2x22$ sensors). If you look at sunset or suncoast you should get an idea on the price increase for parts within the last 2 years. Hope this help to compare with the quotes of your Indy.

Brakes are probably the 2nd easiest DIY with changing the oil being the easiest You can find Meyle rotors on ebay for around $75-$95 a pair Brake pads depending on what your needs are go from $35 an axle to ~$300 an axle I have been running the Meyle rotors for street and track with no issues at all For my DD pads I went with PowerStop ceramic (low dust) and they run around $35-$50 an axle I have even traked them and they were Ok for track use You can reuse the dampers and wear sensors and there is no need to remove the calipers unless you are changing the rotors. Once you have changed pads once, you will find that it takes longer to jack up the car and remove the wheel than it takes to actually replace the pads. There is really no need to have a shop do your brakes Save some $$ and become one with your car

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Do you mean Meyle? I've been shopping those, which appear to be a German made OEM level brand. I know they are very popular with BMW guys.

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While Meyle is a German brand, the rotors are (gasp) made in China. Bear in mind, lots of "German" parts are made in China

Made in China might be ok - if factory is German owned and meeting their quality specs. I put ATE rotors on the rear - also made in China - half the cost of Sebro and 1/3 of oem - so far no issues , including track time .... i work in electronics business and know the difference between a Chinese made component versus a Japanese or American one made in China but at foreign controlled facility - China quality can be good if you do it right and don't take short cuts ... having said that Sebro is also a good choice ... Price of brake job as stated about is going to depend on exact parts used ... labor rate your guy charges out of his home is probably significantly less than shop rate which includes overhead of rent, insurance and boat payments for the dealer ... if rotors are in spec and not scored , ridged etc. you can probably reuse - but I would do that if you plan to be at the track .... i reused caliper hardware - but never drive in the rain and do normally not drive hard on the brakes so the bolts have. It seem many heat cycles ....

I dropped the car off last night and we talked about the brake plan. I was impressed with his home situation. He owns like 10 911s and when I showed up he had two complete engines on blocks that he was working on. Owners from around the world apparently ship their engines to him for full rebuilds and he only works on 911s, not any other make or other model. He is replacing the pads with Mintex. The rotors are within spec and show only a small-ish lip. I also told him to zip tie the sensors so the damn light doesn't come on. I am sure the car will be in the shop a few times over the course of the year so if something is worn the shop will tell me. I don't need the car nanny bugging me every time I want to get in. Next time the brakes need to be changed I will do OEM pads and replace rotors, etc. By that time I will likely do my own brake work anyway. Thanks for the help guys (and gals)!

Did the original sensors trigger? Is that why you are going to tie the harnesses back? The sensors are incredibly cheap to replace and snap into the pads with near zero effort. Why would you NOT use them?

I personally don't use them because I check my brakes obsessively anyway, it's one more step that slows down the brake job, and not unplugging the old sensor and plugging in the new one reduces the chances of me breaking one of the connectors. I've never had a car prior to my 986 that _had_ brake sensors; the thought of waiting for the car to tell me it needs brakes leaves me feeling somewhat uncomfortable.

My rationale is not a financial one. I just don't need my vehicles tattling to me about brake wear. None of my other cars have ever had that feature and I have gotten along just fine without it. IMHO this warning light is entirely unnecessary as I service my vehicles very regularly.

You can always bypass the sensors and just rely on the pad's built-in warning noise - the way we all did before sensors.

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Yes, the sound of the backing plate grinding on the rotor is a big giveaway that your brakes are toast Best way is to just have a peek at the pads regularly

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Yeah, nothing like taking a 21st century luxury sports car and removing stuff rolling back the clock to the '50's.

These pads do not have "cherpers". (embedded spring steel at the trailing edge). JayG is correct.

op has picked the indy, so I deleted my two cents.

Pretty sure I paid $7 each for my last wear sensors. Bypassing them seems pretty pointless, if for no more reason than doing the job 'right'.

I replaced my fuel injection with a Holley 4 bbl and wrapped the fuel lines in aluminum foil to cut down on vapor lock.

Also plan to replace those pesky xenons with sealed beams next time I have a headlight issue.

Valid points on reconnecting the pad sensors. Now if you are going to be tracking it and swapping between DD and Track pads, then it makes perfect sense to zip tie the sensors and remove the brake pad dampeners. Otherwise, it's fairly trivial.