Yes upgraded bearings fail

So I drew the short straw. My ISB failed killing my engine. It was an upgraded LN engineering bearing that was 16 months old and had less than 20,000 miles on it. And during that time, the car had its oil changed every 3,000 miles and was well maintained, never overheated never driven on old or low oil. Yet, it threw craps. I am fairly philosophical about it. I love the car and you pay your money and take your chances. We all know the risks and they are small but not nonexistent. When it initially happened, I was looking at replacing the motor with a used one and was going to be able to keep my old motor and was looking to sell the core for scrap. So, I called Flat Six Innovations and the call went something like this. "Hello, I own a Porsche 996 and one of your upgraded ISBs died killing my engine." "We have never had a case of one of our parts failing (yes they actually said that), it must have failed because it was put on an already failing engine." "Perhaps, but the engine ran perfectly for 20,000 miles and my shop says it was a classic case of ISB failure and see no evidence the engine had other problems" "Which shop, is it reputable?" "Insert name here" "Yes that is a good shop but there had to be something wrong with your engine". "That may be and since your part failed I was wondering if you would be interested in buying it for scrap value, just to look at it yourself and see what happened. I can put you in touch with the shop and they can assure you it was one of your bearings that failed and ship you the motor. I have also heard you guys are always in the market for engine cores and I have one to sell you." "Let me talk to Mr. Raby and I will get back you". click And that is it. They never called back. They never called back with so much as a "sorry to hear about this" or to offer me so much as a discount on a replacement part. I was shocked they didn't at least want to buy the core if for no other reason to prove that something else caused the failure. But nope. They never did any of that. I am needless to say a bit disappointed by this. I didn't expect them to replace my engine. I am not even that angry about the part failing. All parts fail sometimes and no manufacturing process is perfect. Assuming it was the failure of their part and not something else in the engine, sometimes you things like that happen. It doesn't mean the company is bad or the design is bad, it just means sometimes you have bad luck. What does make me angry is they seem to not care a whit about the possibility one of their parts failed killing a $20,000 engine and show absolutely no curiosity to see why that was or even make a token effort to make it up to their customer. Everyone always says how Raby and those guys are real straight shooters. Well, they seem to be that when they are trying to sell you something. But when one of their parts fail, not so much. And how much hot air does Raby blow on this forum about how badly they need engine cores? A whole lot from what I have seen. Yet, I offered them one and they didn't even call me back to try and obtain it or to investigate what kind of condition it was in. Given that, I find it difficult to believe they really have much need for engine cores. The lesson I take from this whole thing is that I should have bought a car with the stock IMS. Yes, the stock ones fail but as I found out so do the upgrades. More importantly, after all of this time, chances are all of the stock ones that were going to fail have failed. I would have been better off getting a stock one rather than taking the chance on an upgraded one that hasn't been used and thus may or may not have been manufactured correctly. Instead of a used engine, I have tapped into my 401K and am putting in a brand new factory re-manufactured engine coming straight from Germany. I am told it will come as a long block and will bolt straight into my car. It is guaranteed for a year unlimited mileage (including track use). It also comes with various upgrades including the single row "final solution" IMS that came on the 997 engines (the ones that are inside the block). It is in many ways a 997 engine, though sadly I don't get the horsepower upgrade. I have heard that Porsche can be a real pain about accepting your core and forgiving your core charge. But my shop assures me that the core will go back and didn't even charge me the core deposit. I paid for the engine only not the $15,000 (yes fifteen thousand dollar) core fee. There were apparently two such engines of my type on hand in Stuttgart and I got one of them. I have also heard that Porsche didn't make such things anymore. But apparently they do or did and had two and now one of my engine left. It is a lot of money. I still had a note on the car so I couldn't sell it as a roller. I frankly love the car and have no problems keeping it for another ten years. I figure I will get back most if not all of the extra $8,000 it cost to get a new versus a used engine in resale value. Regardless, I basically set the car's mileage back to zero and if I don't want to sell it or don't like the price I can sell it for if I do, I can just keep it and use it for hopefully a long time. One last thing, even after the warranty runs out, after this I am leaving the thing stock. I will take my chances with the people who built the beast and not with some half assed contraption someone else came up with. It is one heck of a thing. The upgraded bearing died. After all of the hot air and BS about that stupid bearing to have the allegedly "superior" bearing kill my engine is quite a pisser I have to tell you. But, oh well, it is a machine not a person. I am still healthy, employed and no one died or got hurt. So there is that.

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I suspect your summary is just terse and your first sentence wasn't really "Hello, I own a Porsche 996 and one of your upgraded ISBs died killing my engine." It seems unlikely to me that Flat Six wouldn't want to at least see the damage if all of the prequalification work had been done and this can be proved to be a failure in a properly "prequalified" engine. So...when you had the retrofit bearing installed, did the shop do the prequalification, or did they pull the tranny, yank the old bearing, stuff the new one in, and send you on your way? Was your retrofit bearing in the door jamb like it's supposed to be when you install an LN bearing? Flat Six have been explaining (ad infinitum) the procedures that must be carried out to ensure the longevity of a retrofit bearing, and if their procedures aren't followed, there is no guarantee that what happened to you can't happen to anyone. Now, all that stuff aside - I'm damn sorry to hear that your engine is kaput. Did the shop take any photos that you can post up so we can see the carnage? Interesting to hear that a factory engine was even available - rumor was that such things no longer existed. If you're willing to share what the total replacement cost (less the core) is, we'd all like to know the number, as it's something that others may potentially face... You just blew some serious money out of every available orifice, so you're entitled to be a bit cranky. I hope that eventually you get a detailed answer to what went wrong and how it might have been avoided, though it sounds unlikely if the block is going to be on the slow boat back to the fatherland. Are you going to get boned by the IRS for withdrawing from your 401(k)? I hope not - that would definitely not be nice icing for this sh*t cake...

That was exactly what my first sentence was. And I am as surprised as you are they were not interested in the core. It doesn't matter now anyway since not I am getting a new engine and would have to get $15,000 in payment if I didn't want to send it to Porsche. But they never called me back. It was a polite conversation. I didn't get in an argument with the guy and made it clear I wasn't going to sue them and didn't expect them to pay for my engine. The guy was very polite and they never called back. I cannot tell you why but they did not. And I never called them back. What would be the point?

I don't see the point in chasing them down - but since the conversation wasn't inflammatory, it is surprising that there was not interest on the other end...even if the core wasn't tempting, more info about the failure seems like it would have been sought.

When you consider how much money we are talking about. I honestly would be singing the praises of Flat Six if they had so much as called me back and offered to buy my engine block or given me a discount on a replacement part. But to just blow me off like that and deny the possibility that it could have been their part while also showing no interest in finding out if it was, caused me to loss a whole lot of respect for them.

And the engine is give or take about $22K plus sales tax and the labor to put it in. A good used engine is 12 to 14K. BUT, rather than just bolt it in, the shop, if it is reputable, will go through any salvage engine with a fine tooth comb and bolt on any parts from your old engine that are superior to the ones on the replacement. For example, my old engine had a virtually new water pump and they were going to put it on the replacement. By the time you pay the labor to do all of that and install the salvage engine, you are looking at around $18K, which is really not that much less than a new engine.

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Deleted: Confused LN Engineering for Flat 6

That seems to fit a lot of the stories I hear about Raby. But, you have to consider that it could have been something else and could have been the way it was put in. I'd be more upset with the shop that did the work and take my case to them than I would be with whoever made the replacement part - until it was proven that the part is what failed independent of the install. And then I'd be upset with LN rather than Jake, although they do seem to be one and the same.

Since the block is going back to Porsche, only they will know what happened and they never tell. As far as the engine, I purchased the car one month after the new bearing was installed as part of the 30,000 miles service. The bearing was installed by a shop in New Jersey that at least according to yelp has a good reputation. The car was also inspected by Porsche of Atlantic City and found to be in fine condition. I am well aware that there can be issues with these engines other than the ISB and that sometimes upgraded ISBs are improperly installed or installed in dying engines and thus later fail. I find it very unlikely that that is what happened here. First, the shop that installed it is reputable and wouldn't be reputable for very long if it made a business out of installing upgraded ISB into dying engines so their owners can rip off buyers. And any good mechanic can tell that the engine has other problems and it is a waste of time to install the upgrade. Maybe they did in this case but given the shop's reputation, it seems very unlikely. Moreover, if the engine had other issues, then why didn't Porsche of Atlantic City see that during the pre purchase inspection? Are they in on the plot too? And even if they didn't, how did the care run so well for over 15,000 miles, two track days and five oil changes, all at a reputable independent, without any issues and no one noticing any issues during the oil changes and service? Again, that seems very unlikely. The most likely cause of this engine failure was the failure of the LN Bearing. The part failed. If that conflicts with people's narrative, I don't know what to do for them. The facts are what they are.

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Did they drop the pan and cut up the filter?

And I thought it was going to be a boring night at work.

Let's get something straight now. The upgraded IMSB was not a Flat 6 Innovations product, and unless my serialized, bubble topped sticker was in the driver's door jamb, we didn't install it. From what I gathered from my phone log report, this bearing was not installed by my company, and we had never touched the car. The product was not ours, and we didn't sell it to you, or anyone else. We have never had an engine that we retrofitted fail, that is the truth, and you won't find a single case where it has occurred, no matter how hard you search. My involvement with these products is from a developmental point of view. I developed the retrofit process, and the components, but my involvement stops there. We employ extreme pre- qualifications for the engines that we retrofit, and this leads to our results. I suggest that you understand the full story before you imply that my company has done anything wrong. It was not our work, we never touched the car, and we don't sell IMS Bearings. So, that said, why did we owe you a call back? I was informed of the call and reviewed the details of the chat in the phone logs. I was the one that decided not to call you back, as we had no reason to do so. You were not our customer and we were not, and are not, a part of the supply chain. Had that been my serialized retrofit, it would not have failed, and things would be much different. My company is, and has been completely dis- involved with this issue, and I don't know why anyone would expect us to offer a consultation. The shop that did the install would be the first person to call, followed by LN Engineering. You are barking up the wrong tree by even mentioning my name in this thread. All of my work has been done FOR LN Engineering, and my part of all these developments has been over for years. THE PART THAT FAILED WAS NOT OUR PART!

The shop is going to be unlikely to do a bunch of forensic labor - once OP's engine was verified toast and OP decided how to move forward, nobody is paying the labor costs to take things apart, examine oil filters with microscopes (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!), take pictures, etc. Bummer, but that's how it is. The availability of longblocks from PCNA is an interesting development considering the supply situation over the past months - though it would be nice to see a reasonable price...

No they didn't. But so what? Even if they had, that would have told them the bearing was failing. That would have been great and would have hopefully saved me a lot of money. It would also, however, have meant that the LN Engineering bearing was failing. If there had been something wrong with the engine that then caused the bearing to fail, that would not have necessarily left metal in the oil. When the chain tensioners snap, they don't give you warning by putting metal in the oil. If the crank shaft is off and is vibrating the engine apart, it doesn't leave metal in the oil. You know what does leave metal in the oil? A failing ISB for one thing. Again, maybe some other part failed causing the bearing to fail. We will never know for sure. That, however, given what I know seems unlikely. And I do know two things, the part failed and Flat Six had no interest in finding out why.

Sorry for your loss. I always maintained that it is better to get a virgin motor with the clean bill of health and decide if you want to do the IMS yourself. I feel the whole IMS retrofitted cars provides a false sense of security to potentially new owners as we know there are other modes of failure(less common), and since it's considered a maintenance items(by some), no prequalification(meaning sometimes owners do it when it's too late). Also not to mention any unscrupolous sellers could potentially hide an already damaged motor with new retrofit and fresh oil change. If one buys a car already retrofitted, I'd rather buy one without fresh oil as it allows you to either send in a sample or drop the sump pan(more invasive ppi). I think we're going to start hearing more and more failures of retrofitted motors based on the circumstances I've stated above. JohnCK2014, did you carry out the retrofit while it was in your possession or did you buy it already retrofitted?

Jack, The part failed. If you don't believe me, give me a call and I will put you in touch with the shop. As far as it being installed correctly, it was installed by a reputable shop and they seem to have installed plenty of other bearings properly. Maybe they installed mine improperly, but there is nothing that says they did. And if they did, why did it take 20,000 miles to fail? How does an improperly installed part work perfectly for 20,000 miles and then one day die? That seems strange. I don't know that the part's failure was a result of a defect. It may have been installed wrong or something else may have failed in the engine causing it to fail. At the same time, however, I have no evidence of that being the case and have no reason to automatically assume that is the case. The only thing I know for sure is that your bearing failed. You assume it couldn't have been your part. But without examining the engine, you don't know for sure and might not even then. All I can say is this is what happened. If it was your part's fault, I am not angry about that. These things happen. The only thing I find annoying is your absolute insistence that it couldn't have been your part that failed when quite obviously it very well could have been.

Had your complaint gone to LN Engineering, they MAY have sought out my services to quantify what happened. The OP is seriously confused.

Thank you for posting your comments and it's very interesting to hear your story. Since I'm three days in to the ownership of my 996 4S experience, I have been evaluating and on the cusp of swapping out the factory bearing for an LN engineered bearing plus rear main seal for the amount of $3400. From everything I've read has a failure rate between 8% & 10% and during my initial research phase before buying the car I talked to every service manager and mechanic at roughly 35 individual Porsche dealers around the Midwest and the East Coast as I traveled for business (don't tell my boss). My first question was how many IMS issues on 996's come through that are blown up and almost universally everyone of them said they blame the Internet for the size of the problem and that they have seen very few or in some cases none at all. Clearly I take that conversation with a grain of salt because it's their job to sell the cars. So I think the ultimate question is if it's inevitable that everybody on this form will at some point buy a motor for their car with a failed bearing what's the risk of me not spending money with LN engineering if I may potentially replace a good factory bearing with a part that may fail?

JohnCK2014, Where is a copy of your invoice with my company's name at the top? You are not, and have not been our customer. I hate that you have been confused, but your call should have gone to LN Engineering, the manufacturer and seller of these components.

alpine, It was done right before I bought the car. But I have the service records from where it was done. The shop was from everything I could tell reputable and I talked to them about the car before I bought it. They said the engine and the car was in great condition. As far as maintenance, I changed the oil and gave it great care. The car went to an independent shop for every oil change. The last one was in May and they told me the car looked great. And it was, right up until it wasn't. I know everyone always claims they took perfect care of their car. And I am not even sure what perfect is. But the car was driven regularly and regularly checked out by a certified tech who never saw an issue. So if I did or failed to do something, I honestly don't know what it was. I would also point out that the car burned less than a quart of oil between 3000 mile oil changes. So whatever the issue, it wasn't cylinder scoring or anything like that.

Sure Jack. Do you have an email address? I will send it to you. I assume you mean the shop in Jersey that installed the bearing. I don't have that at hand, but I will happily send it to you. If you think they installed it wrong and want to go give them hell, have fun. I suspect they will have a different opinion but that is up to you and them.

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I think you're confusing Flat 6 Innovations for LN Engineering.

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Absolutely.

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Sorry about your engine, that sucks no matter how you cut it. I see two things here. The first is that the bearing is not a F6I's part. Jake developed it, but the part belongs to LN and only LN. So you called the wrong place if you wanted help. The second is that if that is really how you started your call with them, then I can perfectly understand them not wanting to deal with you further. You come off as someone that already has your mind made up about the cause and possibly someone trying to get free work/parts when from someone that shouldn't even be involved (see point 1 above). I'm not trying to say you were either of those things, but having done my time working with customers I can see how the conversation may have been taken from their end and the value of having another dead motor not being worth dealing with what they think may be dealing with someone they just can't satisfy. While it doesn't really help and while they may have presented the information poorly (don't know), there really hasn't been a verified case of an LN bearing failing in a properly qualified motor. There are also very few cases of motors without the pre-qual failing after the upgrade and in those cases (like it seems in yours) there is some key information missing (due to the lack of the pre-qual). Another problem that we have in cases such as yours is that it's easy to pull the transmission out and find that the bearing is destroyed. What is more difficult, however, is piecing everything back together to see where the failure really started. The IMSB failing is not the only way the IMSB can end up getting trashed, we already know this. Unfortunately unless Jake does pick up the motor and share his findings, I haven't seen anyone spend the extra money on having their engine torn down just for the hell of it (since the information gained does nothing for them). So the result (and this applies to OE IMSB failures too) the mechanic gives the simplest answer and the IMSB gets the blame even when it may have just been collateral damage. I'm really not trying to pile on or place any blame on you, just trying to point out some of the other factors about why this issue isn't as cut and dried as we'd like it to be. It could have been the bearing or it could have been something else, unfortunately it sounds like we'll never know (since it now has to go back to Porsche). I really am sorry for your loss and the associated headaches. It's always good to see them get resurected rather than sold for scrap though. Kudos for that.

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Jake...if Flat 6 has no culpability for the LNE Product, why would the person handling the phone call even have to go down this road? Shouldn't they just have told the OP to contact LNE?

Oh and its interesting to see Charles' response to a customer in a neighboring thread on roughly the same topic. Quite a bit of contrast... Ahsai, The only thing certain in life is taxes and death. We can try our best, but you can't make a mechanical system 100% fail-safe - that is especially the case with the M96 engine. Everything said, just give LN a call. The least we can do is replace your IMS and get your old one back (along with all the bits for analysis) and we'll give you additional consideration on internal upgrades, since it appears you were well under way to needing Nickies. The rattle you described was an early cylinder failure - fresh, thicker oil quieted it up. The cylinder bore material is very hard - it eats carbide tooling like crazy when machining blocks. Just ask for John, he'll take good care. I'll give him a heads up you'll be calling. __________________ Charles Navarro LN Engineering http://www.LNengineering.com Aircooled Precision Performance

JohnCK2014: you need to figure out that Jake has nothing to do with LN, he has his own business and it's not selling LN retrofit bearings. We want to blame him, but can't! ;-) Now where is that microscope????? I want to look at this thread closer.

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Probably so... But that probably would not have been sufficient, either. I read the report and saw what was said, and how. That alone closed the door on me taking my time to return a call about something we have nothing to do with.

Well at least you didn't sell your 996 because you found some epoxy in there. I wish you the best luck in getting everything straightened out as fast and painless as possible.

LN should have been the first place contacted, not Jake at Flat 6. LN has a established protocol and I review every claim personally. There are many instances where the bearing has been blamed when not the cause and also times when the bearing was definitely defective. But to go to the forums first before contacting the manufacturer to review everything in a logical fashion isn't the way to start off this discussion. Who did the install, which bearing was used, what about the shop's warranty, was the job properly qualified, has the engine been torn down and what was found? These are all important questions that must be answered.

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LN and Flat 6 are different companies. Jake has helped my company develop and test many of the parts and processes the whole industry benefit from, but we are indeed separate companies. And yes, we have had bearings fail from time to time in properly qualified engines almost immediately after installation. But this is the exception, not the rule. 20k+ bearings with the oldest in service since 2007, there are no other bearings out there in this quantity with this length of time in service. But like I said in the other thread, it's near impossible to make an M96 engine fool proof unless you completely change everything, and even then, they do fail on the track, even with all the fixes. You can't make everything 100% bulletproof. I am the first to try to go the extra mile as any engine failure sucks, but I won't have any part in being flamed on the forums. That's why you don't see me post very often on any of the forums any more and have contemplated leaving them completely.

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Hold on a minute.... Maybe I am missed something or misunderstood, but has not Jake Raby on more than one occasion said that NONE of his designed IMSB replacement have ever failed? Are we talking apples and oranges here? Different products? Please correct (not flame) me if I am mistaken.

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You are mistaken. We have NEVER has an IMSR that was retrofitted under this roof fail. That means engines that have passed my invasive pre- qualification procedure and receive MY serial number. What we do is different than what anyone else does, and because of that we benefit from having a flawless record.

OP, it's a tough situation to be in but I agree that your point of contact is the shop and LN, not Flat 6. As far as the qualification requirements, all I can say is, just look at factory warranty fine-print. If you install any critical component by a non-dealer and you car goes belly up, good luck getting factory warranty. It's the same concept; they'll let you slide on brake pads, but on critical parts, no way.

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I am completely new to porsches (had my 996 for roughly a month now), if I wanted your shop to retrofit your IMS, my engine would need to be disassembled and qualify for a retrofit?

First, the conversation with Flatt six was very civil. The guy was very polite and so was I and he promised to get back to me. He just never did. Second, if I should have called LN Engineering, that fact never occurred to the person at Flat Six I talked to. He never said I was calling the wrong place. He never said "oh you need to call LN not us". He never gave me any indication that I had called the wrong place. So if I did, that fact apparently will come as a surprise to the people answering the phones at Flat Six. And if this entire thing is LN's issue and not Flat Six, would it have killed Flat Six to tell me that or call me back or do anything but act like yes it is their issue? As far as whether I was polite enough, I was plenty polite. And anyone here who thinks I wasn't can go lose a 20+ thousand dollar engine and have the mechanic tell you it was because the part that had been sold to you to prevent this from happening failed and then get back to me on how polite one should be when dealing with the inventors of said part. The bottom line here is I had an upgraded bearing in what by all accounts was a fine running and known to be well maintained car and it failed. And when I called the company of the guy who invented that part and claims it is so great, they basically politely told me to go "eff myself". They didn't even so much as give me a return call, a gee sorry to hear that or offer any advice. Nothing. As I said above, if they had called me back and at least appeared interested in how this happened or hell had had someone at LN call me back, I would have nothing bad to say. They failed to show the slightest interest in how this happened and just threw my phone message in the trash. It is funny, I am apparently important enough to warrant multiple responses and attacks on my character on this board, but I wasn't important enough to give a simple call back. The LN bearing failed in my car and it is my opinion that buying a car with such a bearing was likely a mistake. Any of you can feel free to disagree with that assessment but I have a $25,000 repair bill that says otherwise.

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It would have to pass an invasive pre- qualification process that takes a full day to perform. Disassembly of some components is required to complete this pre- qualification. If the engine did not pas the inspection, then the IMS Retrofit procedure is aborted and the owner receives an in-depth report and consultation from yours truly, stating why the engine wasn't qualified. At that time, SOME owners choose to have us move forward with repairing the issue, then adding the retrofit procedure to the engine. In other cases the damage is so internal that a repair is not possible without complete engine disassembly. A good case like this was an engine that arrived from an owner who had two 996s, who loved 6 hours away. His first engine passed with flying colors and he loved my process. His second car had a condition that I found as soon as the sump plate was removed, a failed timing chain roller. The car was driven here from 6hrs away and had zero symptoms, it ran perfectly with zero noises. As far as we were concerned, the car was dead in its tracks and should not be started even ONE more time. That owner chose to have the 32K mile engine disassembled to fit my motorsports, master linked timing chains to it. It had nothing else wrong with it, and we fitted it with an IMS Solution upon completion of the repair. Thats one example, but many, many more can't see this, they are not qualified and the owner chooses to have us bolt things back together, and all they owe for is the inspection. we lose the business for the retrofit, but thats better than having a single failure to deal with. The majority do pass the pre- qualification procedure and are retrofitted to love happily ever after. So far the number is up to just over 500 units being installed without a single issue. I developed the IMS Retrofit procedure on day one, because I knew that so many variables play into the health of an engine post- retrofit. Today around 40% of engines fail our pre- qualification, and when that number hits 50% for three months, I'll not do any more IMSR procedures, as we will just be wasting our time inspecting engines. Other shops don't do this... Why? Because they are just installing some part they bought, and they carry no pride. Also, the way normal shops work, the technician makes ZERO dollars unless the work is carried out. I have had techs in my classes tell me that they purposely overlook other issues, because they are not being paid to do more than change the bearing pout. They know if they don't do the work, that their paycheck will be impacted on Friday. Trust that things here do not operate in that manner, and NEVER will. Three sets of eyes ensure the engine is good to go, and I make the final calls. The day I call you, I will have really good news or really bad news, there is no in- between. To many shops the IMSR has become too straight forward. They think they have gotten good at them, so they start cutting corners. They claim to have a solid reputation with no issues and dozens of retrofits, when their techs are out to lunch, retrofitting everything that comes in the door. To most it has become "a brake job", or thats how their mentality works. Further I will also state that NONE of the IMS Solution Certified Installers (not LN Preferred Installers) have seen ANY bearing failures, either. Why? Because they are bound to a code of conduct and must follow my procedure to the T, submitting photos, and even the old bearing for evaluation, post- process. They too "down" engines for IMSR routinely, because if they make a bad judgment call they will lose their Certification, that was hard to earn, including direct evaluations, and attending classes that cost thousands of dollars each. Get some shop out of the blue to do an IMSR, and you must assume the responsibility for that decision. They have ZERO to lose. Guess why? Because we've NEVER had someone call us to inquire about an IMSB failure related to an LN component. Jud left this up to me, and he consulted me right away. I was in the middle of assembling a forty thousand dollar engine, and I chose not to risk my customer's engine, to speak to you about a failure that occurred to something that we never touched, on a car that was bought second hand, with a bearing installed by someone that more than likely had no idea what they were doing. If you have a problem with an LN part, call LN. Thats common sense. Do you call Chevy when your Porsche has an issue? If you do call them, will they care? Common sense told you that was an LN Engineering component, why would you call Flat 6 Innovations? Why would you even consider that? My company had no dealings with you, or your car. You can't seem to understand that, though everyone in this thread has told you the same thing. Trust me, I did us both a favor by continuing with my work, and not calling you back. No, your phone call is logged down with date and time in my logbook, along with a transcript, just like every other call that comes into this facility. I owed you nothing. I still owe you nothing. Why would I call you back, only for you to ask me ten- thousand questions about the Porsche replacement engine that Porsche could not answer? Thats exactly what you wanted, and why you are behaving this way. And we have no way to determine if the car you bought was already a ticking time bomb, or if it had previously had an IMSB failure, and was half way patched up, only to be sold to you as having a fresh retrofit. Thats probably what happened. Do you have any idea how many people that call here that want to speak to the "Inventor"? dozens per day, and that includes people who have had failures with competing products, that are acting like its an LN part. Some of these people have no idea what IMSB they have, and they want to talk to me anyway. Get this straight, my hands build things, I don't sit behind a desk and I do build engines every day. I am not risking my work for anyone's telephone call. Sir, you were never my customer, and I owed you nothing. Had I called you back I would have told you things that you DID NOT want to hear, and you would have been even more pissed off than you are now, several weeks later, after not receiving my call back. That said, guess where I am right now? On a family vacation, where I should be playing with my 3 year old, but instead I am dealing with a grown man that is acting like a 3 year old. I'll accept your apology for being off base, and ruining my day, anytime that you'd like to extend it.

And as far as the install, there is no evidence that the part was not installed properly. Again, it worked fine for nearly 20,000 miles. And the shop that installed it was reputable. Installing these things is not rocket science. And if LN thinks they should only be installed by people they certify, why do they sell them to any shop? I asked Flat six about purchasing a IMS Solution for my replacement engine when I was going to go with a used engine. The guy told me that while they don't sell to hobbyists, they do sell to certified techs, even those who haven't gone through their certification program and any qualified tech should be able to do the install. That is what they tell you when you are buying the part. When the part fails, then its "well you had it installed by someone who we hadn't certified so you took your chances". Maybe the guy on the phone had it wrong. But that is what he told me. So, I find the whole "it wasn't installed by one of our people" excuse to ring pretty hollow.

I appreciate the detailed response. Will be sending you a PM shortly.

Quotes source post: 12553875

Charles, do LN and Bilt racing service work together? I'm in the Chicago area and assume Bilt can see if my engine is qualified? Obviously trust them as you guys are under the same roof

Quotes source post: 12553894

Thanks for the clarification No Raby replaced bearings have failed, but LN bearings installed other than by Flat 6 have failed I stand corrected

Quotes source post: 12553972

Yes. 100% correct One day we will have one fail too, because many are coming ip on a decade in service all over the world.

Interesting. So the LNE Bearing can and has failed? But not a single one has failed that was installed by Flat 6 because Jake will only install one in a car that has been "pre screened for a bearing". Jake...If you were in health care you would only see perfectly healthy patients. With that being said, ignore all of us and go enjoy your family. Vacations are priceless, especially with a 3 year old.

During that period, lots of things can happen. That mindset is exactly what create failures. People assuming engines are healthy, and that its just a bearing swap, is what leads to these issues. Because any shop believes they can do the job, and very few care enough about their work to be properly trained, and evaluated. Your summary is not complete. We DO NOT and WILL NOT sell an IMS Solution, or ANY other IMSR product to anyone! We do not sell ANY IMS Bearings. What Jud was telling you was the supply system that LN is a part of services over ten thousand shops across N. America, and that shops can buy the IMSR bearings there. We don't even have a way to sell the bearings, and we have zero stock of them. When we need an IMS Solution, we order it from SSF Auto Parts, just like every other shop does. This further proves that we are completely dis-associated with the supply system of these components. If you go to my online store link you'll find it is broken, like it has been since 2009, when the last purchaser of a single part pissed me off. You haven't been told what you want to hear. I develop components and processes, and I build reconstructed engines. Thats ALL that we do here.

Yes, like anyone with any sense about engines would do. It only makes sense to ensure the owner will get a solid return on investment after spending serious money for the retrofit. No, I would only TREAT healthy patients. The rest would go to Hospice care. I wish that was possible, but when you have someone who isn't, and never has been your customer, blaming you for not calling him back, even though he had zero intention of purchasing what you do offer, its pretty much impossible. Once upon a time I had a dream of my 3 year old running this company, but after dealing with people like the guy that started this thread, I'd not wish that curse on her. I'm really getting fed up with people who want to make their problem, my problem. Hell, the OP should have called the prior owner, he had much more culpability than ANYONE else in this thread.

simply put, he not only called the wrong manufacturer, but healso was not the owner of the car when the work was done. I think a small apology is in order as well. I'd be pissed if my engine blew, but I'd be a bit embarrassed if I called the wrong company after the fact

Quotes source post: 12554082

You sound like a smart guy that doesn't just call the first person who's name pops up on Google.

come on brother Jake, u ole Jar Head u...oooh rahhh!!! Sell insurance 30 years if ya wana taste shiz sandwiches for lunch...or not wanting to pass BS on to anyone and get blamed for everything from the dishwasher to the stock market...keep hope alive! keep on keeping on brother! hope and change! hope and change! (sorry, it is a bit past five here...)

Quotes source post: 12554135

I founded this company to solve problems with engines. I have no place dealing with the problems of humans. I am completely insensitive, and I don't give a damn. We seem to have gotten off course, so it's time to rip the phones off the wall, and start over.

Quotes source post: 12553994

Jake - no more responses will be accepted until you get back from vacation. But since I am bored at work, I have a few thoughts. First, this has been my question all along. Would love to see if any of the qualified engines would have ever had a bearing fail anyway. Maybe the inspection process and not the bearing is the solution. I am a case study in this since I had an engine that failed inspection, but went ahead and replaced the bearing anyway (and got the engine rebuilt without any modifications). Second, I can understand the OP calling Flat 6 and I think people are being a little harsh. To the casual renn lister and even the average consumer it appears that LN/Flat 6 are intertwined. Even the home page of both websites mention each other. And a google search of IMS retrofit brings up mostly results for LN and Flat 6.

I was LN's first customer. I was the guy who urged them to take their aircooled Nikisil cylinders to market, and I have the very first set they ever made fitted to the engine in my 356. Since day one, since before LN was even a formal company, I have been their developer and the guy that puts the puzzles together. We have a unique connection, but neither of us are vested in each other's companies. In the opening chapter of my book I go over this unique relationship, where friendship between Charles and I has driven things more than money. I am a developer, LN is a manufacturer. We both have our strengths and weaknesses, and we rely on each other to keep new products on the market, and also to train technicians. To be clear about the pre- qualification procedures: I am less concerned with the health of the old bearing than I am anything else inside the engine during a pre- qual. Why? This is because a failing IMSB is easy for us to find during a procedure, when compared to the other things that can take a new IMSB out. From this point forward any questions from anyone who is not calling to receive our IMS Solution fitment, or to inquire about the process that we carried out for their car (they must have FSI Serial # in hand) will be forwarded to LN. Under no circumstances will we help anyone, no exception. Till I rip the phone off the wall, and blow it up with a 12 gauge.

A very interesting thread. First of all, sorry JohnCK. Very hard luck. Secondly, I know exactly how you feel. I also lost my engine about 20K miles after I had the LNE upgrade IMSB installed by a very reputable P-car shop with a very long history. I also maintained my car meticulously and changed the oil every 5K kilometers. The car had only 24K miles when I had the bearing installed just after I bought it (for insurance, I thought). I decided to go the used engine route. I was told by the local Porsche dealer that the M96 long block was no longer available from Porsche, so I guess you got lucky. I bought a slightly used 997 engine with the larger IMSB from my Indy and love the way it runs. Feels significantly stronger than the original. My blown engine is now with my Indy who will be rebuilding it as a winter project. Both he and 2 other Porsche mechanics (including the dealer shop forman and another Indy) told me that in all probability it was the IMSB that failed. I cannot be certain until it gets dismantled. If the engine failure was indeed caused by IMSB failure then at that point I may make a call to Charles at LN Engineering.

Which will be the proper course of action. He may want the components shipped to me, for evaluation. Throw NOTHING away. I need every piece to put the puzzle together. Thats IF Charles makes that call.

Jake, forget this buzzing and go enjoy your vacation.

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It never fails.. Leave for two days and some crap like this happens. Don't ever be dumb enough to own a business. Never.

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My rule is now no electronics on vacation. It's hard at first, but you will figure out that if you have good help then the world goes on without you for a week. Now put your phone/computer away and get a beer. Seriously

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In this case you had every legal right to stay out of it. I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase: once bitten, twice shy. And I'm sure you've been bitten before. Screw it. Have fun with your family.

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Thats impossible. Had I not seen this thread, some guy I have never heard of would have damaged my reputation, with his off base story. Anytime I go anywhere I carry my IP phone, and I consulted with 3 in- process customers today, right here from the beach. Between those calls and some rain showers, Ava and I went outside to catch some Lizards together. Then this bull**** thread happened. I turn 40 next month. Time to retire.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/246x205/images_9dea24b08f77cfb6164a82683e3b7b7dca659c6b.jpg

I will understand the OP frustration, I will be upset or any of you, if you upgrade your IMS and fail later after rigorous maintenance. 1st. I will inquire with the shop who did the install, more than likely after 20000 miles, the shop will wash their hands. 2nd . LN Engineering, if the shop is 100% sure and can back up the customer explaining the engine die because the LN bearing to the company, they will be the ones who have to come with an explanation. 3rd . Customer service mistake by Flat 6 innovations, off course who ever receives a phone call needs to listen before anything, take notes and if unable to respond properly or resolve the issue has someone to call back (At least that's how my employees are trained) If the OP had a call back just saying please contact LN regarding your issue, Mr Raby participated on the creation of the LN bearing but is not the owner of the company hence your bearing is not suitable for us to study it. I will bet anything the OP wouldn't over react and this thread would never happen.

I've owned my '99 996 for 5 months. I knew when I bought it and am even more convinced now, should my 3.4 ever fail...I'm converting to a crate LS3. I'm sorry to say this, but reading stuff like this on this forum so far has been the only bummer about owning this wonderful car. I apologize in advance should this offend anyone.

Quotes source post: 12554508

Welisten and take notes. All those notes are in my phone log, and tomorrow I'll be able to tell you exactly what time the call was made, and on what day, and how long it lasted. I read all the notes and *I* made the decision not to call anyone back. I stand by this decision, as I was bound and determined NOT to get in the middle of this. If the person had a problem with an LN product- then call LN. Trust me, after all of this the OP will be getting his return call. It will happen tomorrow. He can stand by.

Quotes source post: 12554508

JohnCK sorry for the loss Carerra Blue - absolutely agree with point 3.

Yep. Time to rip the phone off the wall. Or, employ a call center in India.

Where is Johnny Irish when you need him?

This is not the first time we've heard of replacement bearings failing, and it seems like some have failed within a relatively short time (20K miles +/-). This seems to bolster the suspicion that there is something more to these failures than simply a bearing that wears out. There are forces acting on some engine's bearings, whether original or replacement, that are taking them out prematurely. Off center bores and misaligned bearings or shafts are some theories that have been thrown out. I'm not one who is prone to go for wild theories, but it makes no sense that a superior bearing (LN mfg with ceramic *****) would fail so quickly. I'm sure that debris in the engine or other internal failures are to blame for some bearing failures, maybe even most failures. But, why do some engines live happily with their original bearings for hundreds of thousands of miles, while others destruct at 20K-30K miles. Now the same anomaly is being seen with replacement bearings. Most last, a few don't. There is more to be learned......

Absolutely. Misalignement is something that we check for with our pre- procedure checklist. I developed the tool for checking this, and shops can buy it at the end of this year through distributors. The relationship between the IMS and crankshaft are critical, and others haven't ever considered them. I learned about this through the development of The IMS Solution. On that topic, there's never been a single failure of an IMS Solution, here, or anywhere.

God, you're terrible at vacation.

Quotes source post: 12555181

I agree.

Quotes source post: 12553943

Hello, you have not done your research and yes, there is more than just immediately jumping to a claim that the IMS bearing killed your engine. Yes, Flat 6 offers training courses and has certified installers for the IMS Solution that have taken said instruction and have met all the required criteria. This is different than LN or the IMS Retrofit. We have perferred installers that agree to comply with our procedures and standards, but that's all.

Quotes source post: 12553930

It is not Jake's responsibility to call LN and have us call you. Matter of fact, talking to the installer first and then LN is the proper course of action. That said, so you have the serial number so we can pull the registration and used bearing?

Quotes source post: 12554508

That would be a really easy call and situation not to screw up. "I'm sorry that this happened and I can see how you feel the bearing was the cause of the issue." (then listen to the caller for a while as they vent) "However, we at Flat6 only played a part in the original design, we do not make or market the bearing, please call LN as they are the ones who make the bearing and who would be able to help you with this issue, here is there number." That would take under 5 min and not end up pissing someone off.

A good handful of you guys want so bad to make this FSI's problem......and all over a phone call that was not returned.....so instead it goes right to interwebs and the sharks start circling. Do you guys also get this way when you go to a Cajun place and ask for sauerbratten?

Wow. After Flat6 Innovations' first response to the OP, there should have be an apology from the OP for what is now known to be a confusion of association between LN Engineering and Flat 6. Flat 6 Innovations did not manufacture the part, did not sell the part, did not install the part, did not have any connection what-so-ever to the OP's part, car, repair, etc. None. End of story. To the OP...I feel your pain...your engine was destroyed after you did everything a reasonable person might do to protect against this very event. That really really sucks. You have a right to be cranky! Every right! I'm cranky just reading about it. I'd be out of my mind if it happened to me. It doesn't even matter if you are able to afford the repair, it still stings. JohnCK2014, if you're ever in Philadelphia let me know I'll buy you a drink or three.

Quotes source post: 12555255

Having customer service (phone support) experience I can tell you that there are many people out there that just want to be pissed off. No matter how reasonably and calmly you try to explain the situation to them, they just can't or don't want to hear it. On one hand we have the OP who admits that he started off the call in an irate manner and on the other we have F6I that have a pretty damn good reputation for dealing with their current and potential customers. Yes Jake himself can be tough for some people to deal with, but even he has been willing to bend over backwards and help people out at times. Given that the OP has continued to be belligerent about it in the face of being wrong (as far as contacting F6I), I would take the bet that the person he spoke with did indeed try to explain that he needed to talk to the installing shop and LNE. I get that he is upset, I will be too when/if our motor goes, but that doesn't excuse him from being upset that someone entirely uninvolved in his car and situation can't/won't help him. Also, he has a loan on a 11+ year old car? And he is taking money out of his 401k for the new engine? WTF?!?! Seems like some seriously bad financial planning to me and doesn't endear me to his rationality.

This horse is dead, don't keep beating the poor thing.

Quotes source post: 12555580

3600+ posts on RL and you expect THAT to happen?

Nope, this guy was wanting to be pissed off. Its ok, after tomorrow you'll not be reach a human at ANY of the numbers for my business.

Quotes source post: 12555662

Probably smart, but it sadly won't help. The future of threads like this will be "I called and couldn't get hold of an actual person and I left a message but they never called back!!!".

Quotes source post: 12553556

starting the entire discussion on a assumption that an LNE bearing caused the failure is stupid. quite frankly, I wouldn't have returned your calls either. your attitude through typing is that of an a hole. I can just imagine what you'd be like in person. just my outsiders 2 cents

I think a half-shaft in my Nissan is acting up, so I'm going to call Falken and demand an apology. I'll let you know how it goes. Jake, when I used to work in support for a software company, I would refer polite callers to the Apple hotline (800-SOS-APPL) when I determined the issue was with hardware or the OS. If they were jerks, I'd "accidentally" give them the 800-S0S-APPL (that's a zero, not an O) - which was a VERY explicit dial-a-**** line. Maybe you can find the number for a nice Nigerian businessman to distribute to some future callers - assuming you decide to answer the phone again someday.

Quotes source post: 12554561

Any way you can set it up as a conference call, and post the dial-in code here? This should be FUN! . Many years ago, shortly out of college, I worked in customer service for a company that imported cheap merchandise that we then sold to banks, time-shares, etc. to use as promotional give-away items (clocks, luggage, cameras, TVs, etc.). Like Raby, we sold NONE of it retail. However, it was not uncommon for me to receive calls from people who claimed to have purchased the products and were demanding a refund from us. Of course, I knew there was no way they purchased the items from anyone. They were 100% used as freebie give-away promo items. So, I'd tell them that we were simply the importer, and they needed to return the merchandise to the store where they purchased it. {This was impossible, as the products were not sold retail}. Many still insisted that we issue a refund, so I'd say "Sure, as good will, we'd be glad to issue you a refund. Simply send it to us along with a copy of your receipt." The conversation invariably went downhill from there.... The "lucky" ones then got put on perma-hold. The especially belligerent ones got a special treatment, where they were bounced back and forth between several of my buddies, each asking the person numerous inane questions, and also having them repeat their story numerous times, ad infinitum. [That was before the days of free long distance calls, so it was on their dime.]

Quotes source post: 12555704

I needed that. This guy bought the car after being retrofitted, but I bet he never called the seller. That will happen, and I won't care. At least the person won't be able to twist what my team told them into something that was incorrect. I am also removing every phone number from every signature and web page. I have already written the internet payback machine to have their pages purged, as well. I have always taken pride in folks being able to reach an actual human with the strike of one key, but the time has come where I simply no longer care. Also, I have enabled voice recording of every single phone call starting tomorrow, along with all the required legal BS statements that go along with that. Of course, its for "quality assurance".

This has been a fascinating read: full of pathos, psychology, tragedy and drama. I don't even own a 996, though I have shopped for a few. One of the most pervasive lessons in my adult life has been "Even when you are sure of the situation, don't jump to conclusions. Separate yourself, be dispassionate, bounce it off of trusted counsel, find your zen." I've deployed to remote lands, trapped with difficult personalities for severe months of labor. I have come so very close to putting the curvy part of a ball peen hammer between the eyes of confrontational asshats. It seems so reasonable at the time, when the juice is flowing. Naturally, I am very, very pleased that I learned the above lesson, rather than typing this from jail. This thread teaches many lessons in business, interpersonal relations, and the nature of passionate people. The fact that Jake took so much care during his vacation for something so unrelated definitely speaks volumes. I've learned a lot and these are good reminders. I feel for all of the players. As OP said right at the beginning, these things sometimes happen.

Damn phone first. What's next, internet connection/email? Are we gonna actually have to send a snail mail or even drive up there in person?

Quotes source post: 12555774

Really? You were completely indifferent to someone who just experienced a catastrophic engine failure on a car he understood to be equipped with the leading-edge technology to prevent the most likely cause for such a breakdown. He got confused about the identities of your company and LN (it is rather easy to do), and no one at your firm bothered to disabuse him of that notion? What would that have taken --- 15 seconds? You then tell this community -- populated with many of your most fervent supporters that you might not take their (or, presumably, any potential first-time customer's) call? Your statements seem extremely antipathetic to the community that has provided you with what I imagine to be a quite good living. After the telephone customer service disaster, better that you would have responded to the original post in a more apologetic and instructive way ("please note that we are not LN Engineering, but here is their contact information ...."). Yes, that would have taken a really deep breath and some pride swallowing, but so what? OP certainly blew it, but he was dealing with a mind-boggling set of circumstances. You were not, and you could have called him off the chase with almost no effort. You seem like a decent chap, in general, and provide this community (and probably may others) with incredible engineering and developmental service. Customer service is part of the equation, too. There is a person behind each of these cars, and they usually are looking to you and your firm precisely when they need to hear from someone, not something (like an email or webpage).

Quotes source post: 12555877

This is what makes up RL, although not sure if it teaches anything to everyone...

6 pages, 89 posts , over 2800 views and counting.....to soon to start a countdown before this thread is locked/closed??

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot to ask. Last year when my engine blew up, it had an LN IMSB in it. Who do I demand a refund from? Pretty sure that it's Alpine, since his name was on the tow truck, but this thread has gotten too confusing. ,

We get "used" a lot. I let it happen for a long time, but no good deed goes unpunished. We solve problems with engines and engines are our focus. When people get in the way, I learn my lesson and make corrections. We receive way more emails than phone calls anyway, and none of them go for more than 24 hours without a detailed response. I have every email since 1997 and refer back to them all the time. Customer service is part of the equation, but what if the person is NOT a customer and never planned to be? He bought a used car with a retrofitted IMSB that was probably installed by someone without a clue, he is not my customer. My changes will make true "customer service " for those that really are our customers better than ever. They won't have to wait in line behind tire kickers and people looking for free information, or calling about competing shops that have told them something wrong.

Quotes source post: 12555927

JohnIreland isn't OP, so it might not get locked...

Quotes source post: 12556039

perhaps....some boobies then

Quotes source post: 12556039

Get your tin foil hats ready...what if OP is JohnIreland and he is just here to stir the pot?

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Don't throw my name in it. I only developed the flat bed mechanism. I can't control how people use it or load cars onto it. You'll want to contact Escondido whose the actual operator. It's logical afterall if you look real close as the phone number is closer to that name anyhow.

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That's understandable, but that's no excuse for not being polite on the phone.

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you guys have it wrong It Way's fault, or possibly Murrieta or very possible it was the fault of PCA SDR as they planned the drive

Quotes source post: 12556307

Who do we believe was rude on the phone? The OP who seems to be proud to claim they were rude or the company that has a pretty damn good reputation for helping people out? That the OP alludes to F6I being rude and unhelpful seems more to me as their own twisted interpretation of the call rather than any fault of Jake's crew. Now if Jake had answered the phone and the OP started off as claimed, that would be an entirely different (and probably hilarious to have heard) story Even after a mountain of evidence presented showing that the OP was mistaken to call F6I in the first place, the last we heard from him was that he wanted to fax Jake some receipt with the implication that it proves Jake should have something to do with this. That in spite of the OP clearly stating that F6I didn't do the install and we all know full well that they didn't sell the bearing to the installer. All this business of F6I having poor customer skills is purely based on Jake's reputation (though he was not on said call) and the claims by someone that should be taken with a grain of salt. People are getting their panties in knots over hearsay.

JMHO but its hard to feel sorry for the OP's problem. Yes it sucks that your engine blew but your blaming the wrong people. You would have to be living under a rock or in complete denial to buy an M96 Porsche without using due diligence PRIOR to purchase. If you came to this forum and did a search for IMSB and other M96 problems you could have avoided this ordeal. The PO screwed you, the shop screwed you, and Porsche screwed you. It stinks but its not Jakes fault. Jake owes you absolutely nothing. Not a phone call, not an apology, no sympathy, NOTHING! F6I is a business for paying customers and those who want the best engines built that can afford the premium. He is not the call center for whining losers who were dumb enough to buy an M96 engine Porsche without knowing what one is. Once again sorry for your loss. Sell the POS as a roller and move on.

Quotes source post: 12556397

This note is juvenile, illogical and insulting.

Quotes source post: 12556407

You must be new here. Welcome to KK's posting standards. He once owned a 996 but was so scared of it he rebuilt the engine multiple times, but never drove it anywhere. He did once consider a 300 mile trip, but ultimately chickened out due to fears that it would fail. Forget the millions of miles that unmodified M96s have logged, they are time bombs that are going to blow at any second. Any M96 car should be treated as a roller! Did I sum that up correctly?

Quotes source post: 12556397

Damn. This one needs to be framed. That's my kind of dialogue!

Quotes source post: 12556422

Thanks. Not so new here, and generally aware of the KK approach, but this was just uncivil. And wrong.

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Sounds like I need to get a class-action suit going. Hey, KC, put down the dish sponge and come out of retirement for this one.

*deleted* Bailing out of this thread. Good luck, OP.

Quotes source post: 12556422

Yup! Pretty good summary! You must be 'old' here!

Quotes source post: 12556495

I just liked the directness of it.. Twist and turn it into anything you'd like.

Im like Jake in that way. Direct and brutally honest at times. Some people just cant take it because they belong to the "nothing is my fault" society of no personal responsibility our country has been transformed into. Unfortunately I deal with these types every day. I sense some would like to mount a JR boycott because he's not sensitive enough to poor uninformed M96 owners and solving problems that aren't his. Being as he's usually booked for a year, maybe he should just keep doing what he's doing. In other words, doing what works for his business and not what us forum goofs think he should do.

This whole thing has been one huge over reaction and an example of **** poor customer service, IMHO. If Jake would have returned the OP's call, or the guy that answered the phone would have sent him to LNE, then this thread never would have seen the light of day. And Jake, for a hardcore, ex Marine that prides himself on his toughness, you really need to iron out those panties....Such an overreaction.

Quotes source post: 12556588

Gee -- let's allow Jake to make those decisions for himself and his business. As for you, "brutal," yes; the rest, not so much.

Quotes source post: 12556611

He wasn't a customer. We owed him zero service. The way the whole thing would have been avoided is simple. He could have called the right business to begin with.

KK, your problem is that you never were an informed M96 owner. You bought into the over hyped paranoia and then fed it a triple dose of steroids laced with LSD and threw in a cocaine chaser for good measure. I grant that you know more about working on the M96 than most other hobbyists since you did so much to yours, but 99% of your painful ownership was self inflicted by doing things that just didn't need to be done. The reality is that there is a small fraction of M96 motors that fail. What that percentage is varies wildly depending on who you believe, but even the worst case (which I don't believe is supported by real world failures) is that 85% will have nice long lives with standard and reasonable maintenance. Contrary to the opinion you espouse, the 996 is a good and reasonably reliable car (pretty damn reliable when you limit it to just high end sports cars). No it's not perfect and it has it's problems. Somethings you can take reasonable measures against and some you just have to roll the dice. Some people will come up unlucky and it sucks, but most don't and life is good.

KK, let us know when you are getting a divorce so some young gun can latch onto a "like new" woman that's never been used before. BTW, how's the new owner doing thus far? Have you been in touch with him? Wondering how many miles he's done so far.

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Right? Plus it should have never been a return call or in question to begin with, a polite "Please call LN, Raby only had a part in the design but we don't sell them or service them if there are issues, here is LN's number" would have done the trick.

996s are damn good cars. I agree that the vast majority will not see some form of failure. The rest of the car is tough as nails.

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To clarify: I spoke to Jud about this at length last night. The phone call that was to occur was ONLY if we were interested in the core engine he had offered. We were not. He was also referred to LN.

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I don't know about that. The light cover over the visor vanity mirror broke off, and I rarely ever even touch up my eyes whilst driving. (Hmmm... another class-action suit in the makings, me thinks.)

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Quick! Call Flat 6 before Jake blocks access to a real person!

Since you asked, the last time we visited, he agreed with my low use/non DD approach. He agreed that the car is such a nice example of a clean original C4S that it should be parked inside and only used for special times! I do miss cleaning and detailing the engine and undercarriage. I would and did recommend the new improved IMSB for SR M96's.

This thread came to my mind when I saw this picture:

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KK, I think you're off your game a bit. You should've recommended the Solution as we know there are still service intervals with the IMSB.

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Jake, I respect you. But don;t let one half baked post change it for all time for the rest of us. Heck, the postmaster in my little town just got his black 996 back from FSI, and is very happy, according to my wife who drives her 997 over so her and P. can compare body styles and shut down the post office on Saturday mornings, while they have a car show. She sells on eBay, so they are buds... A bunch have learned about the LN and FSI relationship reading through this, so that is an improvement right there.

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I can add a failed water pump to the suit Lets not forget about excessive tire and brake wear as well

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They sure as hell protect the occupants and are safe That is from personal history from being in a rolled one (in this case a 986) and walked away without a scratch and the car was still probably driveable afterwards . Lots of threads and stories here and other forums about what could have been fatal accidents IMHO, the % of IMSB failures is very low, people are just loud about the failure If everyone posted about their non-failures, you would not have the time to read them all and yes, the OP probably could have handled it better

I always hate to see these types of threads pop up as another shop. Unfortunately, we will see it more and more as these cars age. I don't see near the number of cars that Jake does, but yet find myself having 2-3 conversations a week about potential purchases, and 2-3 conversations a week about "my motor died." I fail 40-50% of the PPI's I do on M96 motors because of what I find, even when the car is seemingly running great. Because I don't want the next owner to get burned like this. I would be very curious to see the PPI report on this car. I think it will only get worse, and it isn't a fun conversation to have with people as a shop. It is hard to ask someone to fork out $20k to repair a car because of a design flaw from the manufacturer. John got a hold of me a year and a half ago to ask me about various models of Porsches, we discussed TT's, M96, aircooled, etc, but mostly the concerns about the M96 motors, including both aftermarket and stock bearings, and more. The fact that there are no guarantees with anything. We discussed that I have seen LN bearings fail (I have been fortunate enough to not have any failed that we have installed). We discussed that I have seen a lot of OEM bearings fail, with the rate increasing over the last few years fairly significantly. I also know that more than one of the failed LN bearings was installed in an engine that had a stock bearing coming apart, but the engine was still running. One was done by a DIY engineer owner (that LN bearing actually lasted 6 months before it started ticking and coming apart), and the other was another non porsche shop. I have installed dozens without issue. When we talked over a year ago, I told him that if you are going to buy an M96 engine, you have to drive the **** out of it, get your money out of it having fun because it is a depreciating asset, and if by change your dice come up the wrong numbers, you have to be able to walk away from the car, put the parts on ebay and move on. After the engine failure we talked again. About potential core charge issues, the risks of a used engine, etc. Here we are dipping into 401k's to keep a car on the road. That is a very sad situation to see. Like John said, he knew the risk going in, I think he was more informed than the bulk of people I talk with that are or have purchased a 996. We talked about what a core might bring, I thought maybe 1000-1500 depending on condition and what the catastrophe took out. In the scheme of things, that kind of money doesn't seem like it needs an immediate answer as to if the core can be sold. Buying a engine from Porsche, that becomes irrelevant anyway as they take the motor. What is more sad about the thread is that the wrong guy got attacked. We don't know what conditions the bearing were installed in, was it done correctly, was it not? Was the bearing defective, was it not? Did the motor have a pre-existing condition, did it not? I know one thing though, I can't tell you how many times I find metal in the oil pan of a motor, and the owner want me to slam a new bearing in the motor so they can sell it. Don't think so. Did that happen here? Nobody knows. Are there pools/cavities in the engine block case where bearing material can get stuck and randomly get swirled back out into the oil over time? Yup. The picture below is of an 05 boxster that was bought on ebay, sold as is, and came off the truck with a badly exploded IMS bearing...yet the car was still running. This customer wanted me to replace the bearing without tearing the engine down. This is after the sump, oil pickups, swirl pots, oil pump, oil, etc had all been drained, the motor rotated on it's sides, and on it's top numerous times during the teardown, yet still that metal sits clinging to those cavities that can't be flushed out without a full engine teardown. If rotating a motor on it's top doesn't cause those particles to fall out, wouldn't it be reason to believe that they could stay stuck in the same place for an extended amount of time before letting go? For reference, in the picture the engine is laying on it's side, the cavity with debris would be pointed toward the ground if the engine was sitting in the installed orientation in the car. It is also on the oil pump end of the intermediate shaft, not the bearing side....look how far the metal can go to get trapped. I get calls from guys like John numerous times a week, and emails, etc. I have never met John, nor is he local to me, nor will he likely spend a dime with me. Some of us like to help because the cars are our passion. As busy as I am, I still enjoy shooting the **** about cars with people. Sometimes all you have time to do is shoot back a quick response, sometimes things slip through the cracks completely. As the arguably the top M96 specialist (and I would use the word "expert", but I know he hates that word), I can't fathom the amount of calls and emails Jake gets on a daily basis, most of them likely from people that will never spend a dime with him. I'm not convinced that he actually sleeps. Yet here he is, answering threads on his vacation. Him and I are similar like that, and if his wife is like mine, then I know she is giving him the dirty eye every time he picks up his phone, because he is suppose to be on vacation. Attacking resources like this will leave us with no resources. It only takes a few bad apples to make someone stop giving their time for free. I feel very bad John is in this situation, but bottom line, is there isn't anyone to blame besides the design of the engine.

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Very true. I received 3 awesome emails today from owners of our engines that had no idea this thread existed.For every one complaint there's a hundred kudos, but guess what, the complaints are always from a non- purchaser. Its always some guy like the OP, who I more than likely never would have dealt with in the first place. That said, I did make changes today to the phones, and will make more when I get back. As of today you can still speak to a human, but the info that is conveyed is very limited. If you mention an LN product, you will be immediately transferred to LN. If you have a problem with some competitors part, we will refer you to that competitor and will offer no advice. Anyone that calls for any reason other than to order an engine, or schedule an IMS Retrofit will end up being directed to an electronic prompt. If someone calls just because they wonder about M96 engine reliability, they will be sent a directive via email, and they'll be sent to another electronic prompt. And if this don't work, then yes, I'll rip the phone off the wall. I have no phones in my lab or any of my work areas, I don't need to know that anything other than the engine I am working on at that moment exists. Engines are what I care about. They are all that I care about.

Well, that sucks - a lot of the "Jake is a cool guy" posts I've read over the 6 years I've been part of the Porsche world were from people that emailed or called you in a pinch, and you helped them out when you didn't need to. A couple of those guys wound up sending their cars (or engines) to you - but certainly not all. As a business owner, I know you don't get rich giving the milk away for free - but we've always maintained the "kill 'em with kindness" approach that you seem to have had until now that the phones are getting the double-aught treatment.

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It'll probably cost me some money, but, I'll trade money for happiness. People in this world have changed, entitlements and attitudes have reached a point where people are demanding. I run this place old school.

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People use the word "deserve" a lot more than they used to - I deserve a vacation, I deserve this house, etc. You may have earned it, you may have worked your a$$ off for it - but there are damn few people who actually DESERVE anything. Except child molesters. Those guys deserve a bullet. I volunteer.

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I have circled the debris in case it's not obvious to some. Drawing1 (Large).jpg I have my own photo to support this point. You don't really need to see and disassemble 100 engines to conclude this. One is enough as long as you take the time to understand its anatomy. 0827152243b (Large).jpg

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EARNED is the term you won't hear. No one wants to earn anything.

What blows my minds guys is the fact he buys a car that he didn't his due diligence and it fails down the road...then wants to blame someone else for his demise. Sucks to have a dead motor because I've been there. The OP needs to look in the mirror. Btw where is said OP? Life lessons are a bitch.

Pete, OP indicated that his car's PPI found no issues, and it sounds like one of the criteria he used when choosing a 996 was the fact that the bearing retrofit had already been done. If the clutch plate really was installed improperly, and if the IMS bearing was banged into the car so crooked, that it couldn't be removed, the ham-fisted mechanic who did that work should have been the focus for his frustration... I don't have any intentions of getting rid of my 996 - but if I did wind up having to replace it, I would only choose a bone-stock car and have the IMSB and other upgrades carried out. A replaced bearing (without extensive background info) is a much bigger question mark than a stock motor.

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Nope. His breed goes after the most recognized person as his target. I've had a target on my back for 20 years.

Agreed but PPI's are usually put the car a lift and poke around. I would have done more than that knowing these cars. Would love to here if he was told to buy the car or not. That we don't know. Still blaming a developer vs an installer is key.

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It seems like he did the basics up front, he just (like many?) thought that the LN bearing was a panacea. I also don't think he was actually trying to blame Jake or LN, I think he started off honestly mistaken that F6I was the place to get help and/or sell his dead motor. Where he went off the rocker was not listening to what Jud told him and then continuing to compound it here by continuing to when his original premise was shown to be wrong in some places (F6I should be involved) and flawed in others (blaming the bearing without key information). Then we got descended on by the crowd that that seems to think F6I somehow failed here. That is the most distressing to me as it is clear the OP's presentation of the events is biased. Equally distressing to me is that some of that camp are members that are normally level headed and I have serious respect for. It just boggles my mind. As far as the OP being MIA, he could still come back but it is the MO of people that make posts like his to just disappear rather than just manning up and saying "my bad, I made a mistake".

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Schnelly, you're mixing up drama queens. The backwards clutch and stuck bearing was epoxy-boy not spending-401k-on-top-of-car-loan-boy.

Classic KK

+997 oops did I say that

You know how many engine failures happen after a PPI? A **** ton. I have a customer from NJ who bought a car in Colorado and had a PPI done at a dealer. It had a clean bill of health. The car failed in Connecticut and never made it home. It takes me two freakin days to do a PPI.

Jake could be the next Dos Equis' most interesting man. "He is the guy that keeps your engine running, even though he's never touched it." Stay thirsty my friends!

kcattorney, can you please give us a crash course on.......LIBEL? OP, make sure you listen and take notes.

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Love it! We should start a thread like that. Jake, the most interesting man in the world. Jake can hear and !M$ bearing going, when the car isn't running.

Entire thread could have been avoided with a single 5 min phone call.

via Imgflip Meme Maker

^^^ You mean Flat Six.

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This should be a sticky somewhere.

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Agree with Alpi. As one member said (uhum) "Truer words were never spoken" (JI)

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Doh! See this thread has trained me well. Fixed.

What this thread needs is more

Did someone say b@@bies?

Ahhhhhh..all is right with the world

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If they did then you got it wrong

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Oh, sorry. Is this better?

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Jake. Thanks for all of your valuable input to these forums over the years. Sorry you got caught in the middle of this. As a small business owner myself I know how personally you take these. Just wanted you to know there are a lot of us who are infinitely grateful for all your work. Your daughter is precious. Hope you had a chance to enjoy your vacation as she will be grown up before you know it.

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We had a good morning.. Caught a few lizards, took a dip in the pool, took a walk on the beach. She even found a couple of sand dollars. Later today I am going fishing with my brother, I hope my luck is better than it has been.

Given the OP's response in this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ailures-6.html ( post #85 ) I wonder why he even thinks the upgraded bearing had anything at all to do with his engine issue...

Ugh. For some reason this thread had made me think of my initial derision of JI, I had forgotten this John was involved in that Thread of Stupidity too. Well on one hand he has shown himself to be an outlier in my view about IMS nut jobs not being the ones to replace their engines if they blow. On the other by publicly admitting that he is doing it because he has a loan on an 11+ year old car solidifies just how disconnected from basic logic he is. That he also admits to pulling money out of his 401k just makes that all the more clear. I still feel bad for him that his engine blew, but wow the stupidity is strong in this one

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Wow! Great research! Here is the OP's position in that thread... It is all bull**** people. Complete and total unscientific bull****. You guys sit around and listen to people who have an economic interrest in convincing you the part is the problem and you believe their have half assed anecdotal evidence and half baked conjecture. That is really all there is to it. I gotta believe that the OP had an axe to grind...or karma really is a bitch.

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Karma is my best friend.

so did JohnCK2014 decide to have jake(flat 6) do a complete rebuild??

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I forgot....pretty sure jake told johnny to take his car to AAMCO.

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If Jake wasted his time trying to talk to this guy I'm sure it ended with Jake providing far more creative places that John's car could visit Sailors have nothing on a pissed off Marine when it comes to creative language skills

We were on arrive a few weeks ago and this guy I've never met before comes up to me to ask if I've done the IMS upgrade on the car. I reply in the affirmative. He then asks what upgrade I used, when I tell him LN, he goes all, "you Know those go bad all the time, right?" In his best 'you must have arrived on the short bus' tone. I resisted the urge to smack him. Why are some people so into drama and doom&gloom?

[B]...been on vaca for 5 days and can't believe this thread is still alive...i realize i'm not helping, but it is after 5...! Jake, if I move to Bell Buckle Tennessee and take my Cali money while I still can, do u have any idea of anyone competent to work on my car within 50 miles? Or is GA my best bet when the frekin thing blows to hell and back??? Oooooh Raahhh!!! Gas is $1.93, Rollin Rock is $14.95 for 30 instead of $9.95 a 6, and I am done with the I-5!!! Can I get an amen???? [B]

The OP just refused to read and comprehend JR's posts. JR spent way too much time trying to make him understand. BTW, nice thread tag Schn3ll.

[scarlettvoice]Wha Mistah Krazy, whateveah do you mean?[/scarlettvoice]

Hot damn! I spent a minute out of this forum, came back for a quickie tonight and saw this sh*t...ridiculous! I spent last 45+ minutes reading about someone who blamed someone for not calling them back...SMH. Schnell...let's get some feedback please...LOL!

There should be a special hotline devoted to LN bearing failures. That would solve problems like these and people (JR) would be able to get some rest on their vacation I had many public fights about LN bearings and their reliability, both Charles and JR would always accuse me of manipulating the failures. Now, we see many other people talk about it and we all know it's not just me. I have been using roller bearings for years now, they used to laugh at it and now they just started selling roller bearings themselves to save their good name I said from the start that LN bearings will fail more and more, same thing will start happening to LN nickies as people will put more miles on their engines. Just a matter of time when new treads start popping up about nickies failures. That option is only good for short term.

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Martin, You need to take some lessons in manners, my friend. I have been using Nickies since 2001, and the very first set ever built are still in service in my own engine. Every M96/ M97/ 996TT/ GT3 and etc I have ever built has them. Have you ever heard of one of those failing? No, you haven't. You won't. What you will read is hundreds of reports of happy customers that are using these. Nickies are not new, they've been around a lot longer than you have, and they will still be around when you are gone.

This is from the jackass that used to call his company Porscheland. Then got shut down by Stuttgart and called himself Forscheland. Martin, go crawl back under your rock and STFU.

As usual, you're overreacting. I've seen you talk about thousands of engines you have built, especially gt3 and turbo. Let's face it your business and my business are built on m96 and m97, so don't tell me about gt3 or turbo engines you built maybe once in a great while. These instances are very rare so please don't mention these on a regular basis. If it wasn't for m96 or m97 you'd be working at Jiffy Lube changing oil everyday to make a living. I haven't seen any gt3 engines on your FB, you post every job there just like I do. You also say to have built thousands of motors. Since you take 6 months to build 1 motor, it would take you generations to build thousands of them. Maybe your fans will fall for this but not me. BTW, how many miles have you put on your personal car? Just curious...

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Not everything goes on facebook... In fact about 1/3 of projects go there. The cylinders on that personal engine were originally a customers... It saw 105k when he owned it and be sent the engine back to go bigger after a decade. Since they were the first set of Nickies built I wanted them back for the Museum anyway. We have a rotating schedule, because his is a business that is ran like a business should be. That means real proposals, exact estimates and schedules that provide on-time delivery, every time. I have 36 engines on the build board now. Every one gets Nickies and there are no other options. This company was built with Aircooled engines, and if it weren't for M96/97s I'd still be buikding those primarily. I still personally buikd those, and I'm assembling a 964, and a 993 engine now. As far as Jiffy Lube goes, well I have never had a job in my life outside carrying a rifle and working on Helos in the USMC. Every paycheck I have ever received has had my own signature on it. I own 5 other businesses, so don't **** me off too bad, because some day you'll need a job and I'll be hiring. If you knew 1/2 of what you think you know, you'd be working from a workshop on Mars, and would have launched yourself there.

In a development shocking to no one, Van is correct.

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Sheese...finally. I was starting to think I was the stupidest guy on the planet for buying one.

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Last year you defended LN bearings the same way you do with nickies. Now you are quiet about LN bearings. You and Charles criticized the idea of roller bearings, now LN is selling them. You both say what people want to hear and care about making money. I know you hate me, that's good. I'm the only one who tells it how it is and I will always point it out each time. You always say what fits best, just remember it because you know I will point it out next time...Show me the invoices then I will believe you. Just like having 1/3 of your work posted on FB, same goes for 1000's of your ims installations. Maybe one day you will cool down and get back to earth, then I will stop bugging you.

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LN is not selling roller bearings. You don't bother me at all. In fact, I love these engagements with you. There's always a Marty with anything I have ever done, because I've never been conventional, and I've never given a damn about what anyone thinks.

I'm the same way. Like I told you before, you do a great job and you don't need to brag about it. Navarro confirmed it yesterday that RND is selling roller bearings now. Here's his exact quote: The RND roller is being offered as a less expensive option for those who want to use a roller bearing. Again, this is being offered at the request of SSF Auto Parts because their sales guys were responding to a demand for a roller bearing kit. Again, SSF came to us first. From what I remember rnd is a cooperation of you and Navarro. Hell, now you have so many companies that you can always argue it's not you nor Charles. In reality, it's both of you standing behind all this, whatever the company's name is.

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RND is not LN. Your statement said LN, which is why I corrected you. RND is comprised of more than Charles and I. It has zero holdings from LN, Raby Engine Development, or etc, and operates with its own employees, from its own location, separate from LN or Raby Enterprises. RND was formed as an exclusive supplier to SSF Auto Parts, and therefore RND has one single distributor, and zero customers. Now, a little bit about Sneaky Pete and I: A few years ago, before Martin was on the scene, Pete was one of my biggest critics. He would tell me that the engines did;t fail, and he would say I was just here for drama. This went on for at least 3 years until his original 3.4 in the 996 failed. One day the phone rings and it was lunch time. I answered the phone and it was a nameless guy that never mentioned Rennlist. He told me that he'd had a failure on the track and needed an engine. I just happened to have something to bail him out, so we agreed to a price. A few hours later he calls to ask some more questions, and he says "by the way, I am Sneaky Pete on Rennlist, will you still sell me the engine knowing that?". I got really pissed really quick, and almost said "hell no", but then it hit me that I had just been proven right, because the engine in Pete's car did fail- what he said wouldn't happen, did. So I cooled down real quick and took his money. Fast forward a few months, and that engine has a weird issue pop up. The engine was NOT a reconstruction, and was sold without a warranty. It started eating oil, and I told Pete to ship me the whole car, which he did, and I paid the shipping. We got the car here, and found a crack that formed near an intake valve guide that was allowing oil to weep past the guide OD and into the intake port, where it was induced into the cylinder, and burned. I pulled the heads, and replaced the problem head, so I could keep the bad one for research. The engine was repaired, and we shipped the car home, paying the bill. This repair cost Pete ZERO dollars, and he tried to pay me. I refused. Once he got the car home, he was hooked on a 997S that I had, and he sold the 3.4 car and bought the 997S, then got on my books for a Stage II Track Performer 4.0. It took a year to deliver the finished engine, but it made 326 RWHP, and Pete says it was worth the wait, and the cost. So, what you see here with Pete's support of me and my company was EARNED, it was not given. I did the right thing, even when no one was looking, and I treated Pete as I would want to be treated if the roles were reversed. I was paid back for this several times over. When building his new engine, for his new car (that he bought from me sight unseen and did not see for a year!) he was a joy to work with, and after shipping his 997S home, he has remained a loyal supporter, and believer in what Charles and I have developed. He has experienced first hand all of the bad, and also, all of the good. The bad brings out things that the good will mask, and each of us are judged not by how we perform on the good days, but how we take charge of the bad days. How we treat the other guy, especially when no agreement is forcing us to. This was a quick way of helping you understand why people like Pete do stand up for the guy that took care of them, when the going got tough. All that said, this back and forth nonsense must stop. It is not helping anyone, and is a total and complete waste of bandwidth. If it can't stop forever, it at least needs to stop tomorrow, while each of us should be remembering what happened on 9/11/2001.

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This is the most profound statement made in this thread. It is so true. A shop in Tampa Florida never stood behind the work they did on rebuilding my track car transmission. When things went bad, I got a true glimpse of their character, and it wasn't a pretty sight. I ended up having to pay another shop to redo the job and it was perfect thereafter. Ironically this car, a 986 S, has an engine with 90k miles, many of them track miles. It keeps on going. I did do the ceramic bearing upgrade during the rebuild. My goal is to get another three years out of it then when my girls are out of college pay Jack to put in some proper horsepower.

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Again, no one his trying to hide anything. Jake and I founded IMS Solution LLC and then RND Engines LLC only after years of working together, but having completely separate businesses, founded out of mutual cooperation that has led to many great developments over the years. It's no secret as well that I have been the driving force behind other products including the Pelican IMS kit, which I also manufacture through LN, as well as many other Nickies cylinders private label for certain Porsche engine builders as well as for general aviation, with a contract for big bore kits for Rotax. I know you tried to get your bearing kit into wholesale distribution as have others. IMC chose the Vertex roller bearing instead. SSF wasn't happy with any of the products available, and knowing we've done private label and already had started a company to supply them with their own brand parts exclusively with SSF, it's a no brainer for them to benefit from all the R&D we've done over the years. Like I said on the other thread, when SSF approached us, I was able to provide them a solution the same day. Jake and I had already researched and tested a roller bearing IMS Retrofit kit years ago. Like I said on the other thread, we chose a ceramic hybrid bearing because of our extensive experience with sintered silicon nitride (what the ***** are made of) and that the market would be reluctant to accepting any aftermarket solution (which it was), especially if it was drastically different than what Porsche did. And yes, Jake and I stand behind what we do. That's why we are here on the forums standing up for ourselves. We have a reputation built on quality and trust. SSF wouldn't have sought out us if all we were was smoke and mirrors.

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Everyone knows who I am and where LN Engineering is. We answer our phones and emails. As any small business owner knows, there is never a time where you can be on vacation from your own business. As far as these many public fights, I can happily post links to every thread you have every made or posted on and let people decide for themselves what's really going on here. I would suggest everyone go do a search and find all of Martin's threads under Porscheland and Forscheland as well. As far as your opinion about our Nickies, as I have been told many times, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. Without fact or supporting evidence, your posts are just conjecture and hearsay for the purpose of forwarding your own interests and motives.

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Some history for you Martin. If you look at Jake's screen name on Pelican, it's NoH20. Jake's business staring years before me was aircooled only. He convinced me to go into business back in 2000 or just after. Jake wanted nothing to do with watercooled engines. I had to convince him we needed to since they were as problematic as the type 4s were. It wasn't until Bruce Anderson pulled me aside and said, in his deep serious voice, "Charles, you have to do something about these watercooled engines" that I was able to convince Jake to help me. Since then, most, if not every engine Jake (or his technicians) have built, has Nickies cylinders. So it is no exaggeration the numbers he's claiming. He's being modest, it's in the several thousand if you add up both the aircooled and water cooled engines. Jake can take months working on a single project because he wants to - he has a full team of engine builders he's trained working right beside him, giving him the choice of what project he takes on.

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Jake doesn't need to defend any LN product. The 20k+ installations are proof alone. If the bearings were a problem we'd see similar failure rates to Porsche's figures for failures under warranty, and that would be in the thousands, when in fact, true failures are in the tens. You may not be a hack, but there are plenty of shops and individuals who are out there who are, that on a daily basis do substandard work and put in our bearings into engines that are not qualified or even worse, one where the original bearing has failed. Then we are left with the tough task of trying to research every claim to see if indeed it is our fault (because of the bearing) or due to installer error or some other fault. Remember, the M96 engine has other issues too.

Quotes source post: 12582056

And Here Endeth The Lesson on Karma

Soap opera's aside, I can personally do without the mud slinging, self promotion, history lessons, he said, she said, testimonials, etc. ... and just concentrate on the technical side of things to discuss. Observations, experiences, technical tips, quotes if helpful to the discussion would be viewed as valid. Everything else would really benefit no one IMO. I like to see things get back on track in a civilized manner. The only thing that will matter is not what kinds of things were said but how the customer is treated/serviced and the quality of products in the end. Only time will tell on any of these items. Obviously LN/Jake have had the longest run but doesn't mean that any newer guys should be prosecuted or immediately discounted in any way IMO. You're always gonna have fan boy's that are biased(and it's funny to see some of the non-posters come out of the woodwork only to post on threads like this), but I believe we should all conduct ourselves without the unnecessary mud slinging as we're not a Honduh board with a bunch of 16yo guys as it doesn't really add any value. Having more options is always beneficial to the RL community. What's best can always be debated til everyone's blue in the face as everyone is gonna have different set of methodologies, theories, risk tolerances, etc. But the bottom line is RL should be welcoming of anyone new that has other options and alternatives to offer as it will only be beneficial to the consumer at the end to be able to have more choices. Okay so who is going to boobie bomb this thing now?....

Rather than some PG-13 rated photos, how about we follow Jake's suggestion and spend a little bit of 9/11 remembering 9/11.

Back to the technical issue. Back to the facts. Martin said: "RND is selling roller bearings now. " Implying that somehow Jake+Charles had capitulated to Martin's IMSB . Untrue . The problem with a roller bearing IMSB that was repeated and explained many times is thrust loads . That remains a major negative of a roller bearing - just read the engineering - I gave the links to Timken and others previously. The RND roller bearing addresses the thrust issue. Nothing Martin has ever proposed addresses nor even acknowledges the thrust issue. Not one of the other roller IMSB vendors have even responded to our technical objections against using a simple roller bearing in this specific application. Not one of these other vendors have ever shared any test data for roller IMSBs. Why ? Please note in the following post a clear,factual explanation of the thrust issue by Charles Navarro. So far he is the only vendor who has given any technical information of this thrust problem with all other roller bearing IMSB's . For the curious types, the NUP204E cylindrical bearing(20x47x14mm) sells for $50-$100 depending on brand & source. None of the NUP204E bearings I found were as high quality as the one Charles mentions so I have no suggestions as to it's price -but it could be double the prices I mentioned.

Quotes source post: 12583028

The reason you don't see roller bearing kit manufacturers addressing these technical aspects is that they are all publishing that their bearings have 5 times the load capacity, but as you pointed out, a roller bearing can accept 50% of the load as thrust, where a typical roller bearing typically can accept 10% of it's total load capacity as thrust only in one direction. Bearing quality aside, there are published figures easily attainable that dispute this so-called fact. I asked our bearing engineer to explain, and here is what he had to say: "Bearing load ratings vary between manufacturers. In some cases it�s quite a bit, so I�ve included the range between three major manufacturers (NTN, *** and AST). I doubt the actual rating varies more than 10% because they all use the same 52100 bearing steel for the races. I believe the variance is more due to the exact method each company used to determine the load ratings. Below is the dynamic load ratings for the bearings you�ve been using: 6204 2200 - 2900 Lbs 5204 3300 � 4000 Lbs. 6305 3700 � 5000 Lbs. NUP204 3750 � 4200 Lbs. NUP204E 5800 � 6200 Lbs." The RND roller kit uses a Koyo NUP204E. The NUP204E can accept the thrust in either direction since it has integral thrust control on both sides of the bearing.

Charles, Jake asked me yesterday to stop fighting. I feel I have to correct you on one thing. You are wrong about me trying to sell my bearings at retail. I don't know where you got this info from, it's not true. I never cared about my bearing sales as much as you do. Like I said before, it's only a tiny % of my income. I would never want it to be overpriced by everyone else's cut by the time it reaches my customer. This is why I only sell it one Ebay for $360 shipped directly from my account, if it sells, great, if it doesn't I don't care. I make my money somewhere else. As usual, I have to pick on you again. You claim to have done 20k+ installations, I will believe once I see your invoices. You also blame everything else but the bearing, it's your standard procedure. I understand your company depends on these sales. In my shop it's very easy, every year I work on certain number of engines between here in US and my other location in Europe. I don't brag about having rebuilt 1000's of engines or selling 20k+ bearings. It's easy to prove- show me 20k+ invoices and invoices for rebuilt motors, then I will believe it. Talk is cheap if not backed by proof. I'm pretty good at math, if I count your sales you claim to have, your company should have stocks on Wall street by now and you and JR would be sitting on a yacht somewhere in the Caribbean enjoying your fortunes. Reality is different, both of you sit on your phones or laptops typing your responses everyday and trying to get more customers. Everyone can see you both visit forums everyday. I don't have that much time to spend on the forums and only check it periodically. I have to get back to work now because I'm moving to Fl by the end of this month and I have 5 engines to finish by the end of this month. If I wanted to catch up with your "numbers" I'm pretty sure I would grow old by the time I would finish all of them. Jake said it takes him 140 hours to finish 1 engine. Working even 10 hrs a day including weekends, it takes 14 days for one engine. Multiply that by 2x/month=24 engines a year x10years=240 engines. That would be only working! No time for rennlist, dealing with customers or trying to get new customers or anything else. It's easy to count how many engines per year can be rebuilt, especially that it takes 6 months on average for 1 engine. Maybe other people will fall for this but not me. Especially that water cooled engines started failing a lot within the last 6-7 years. It will take only a few more years before nobody will want to fix them anymore, because they will soon be worth 10k and nobody but hardcore enthusiasts will want to fix them. Same thing is happening with Boxsters now, they are cheap and not worth fixing anymore. Good luck Charles, that's it for me about this subject.

dumb question: why are they called "nickies" I was thinking nikasil, and the whole bmw fiasco vs alusil for their 90s V8s.

were'd the OP go?

I think his fuching head exploded.

Who knows...Don't worry Martin will be back after his bowl of charnina.

Pete - out of curiosity - what's the beef with Martin? I have no opinion one way or the other, but you definitely do. What's the backstory? Inquiring minds want to know. And nosy f***ers. I had to Google the soup...my lack of social grace is appalling.

Quotes source post: 12584747

Put me in the latter category. Actually, was wondering the same. I've always thought that Martin's posts seemed intelligent, even if some people don't agree with them. Believe it or not, someone once disagreed with me. (They were wrong, of course).

I learned a lot from this thread, and the others where posts have lead the thread far off any technical topic. I haven't applied the level of discipline that I should have, by allowing things to stray off topic. I am appalled that we have such loose moderation of things like this. Lots of the things that even I have said, should not have been allowed. Today was one of those days when I realized how lucky I am to be happier than ever, healthy, and on top of the world. It was also one of those days when I missed being an active duty Marine, I feel like this every year on 9/11.

My distain mainly comes from my years of dealing with people in commercial construction industry. You become jaded to the promises of of others that never come through. I have dealt with venders that promise but cant deliver and at the end cost me more money. After a while a keen sense for deception develops and you can smell a rat from their actions. My nose is full with this guy. In words it sounds like he is another option for failed motors but I know better. It's not that I bought a motor from FSI and that I'm seen as a fan boy. FSI proved to me what they can do. Martin hasn't proved anything except that he can attack another's business. Maybe that's how it's done in Poland...but a true engine builder doesn't need to do that because the product speaks louder than any drivel. I guess I've taken it a little to personal but when stuff gets spewed it has to be the truth on the inter web...not the case here.

Not Pete, but my problem with Martin (as shown in this very thread) is that he jumps right in attacking LNE and Jake. He has also made some pretty big claims about his roller bearing and now steel sleeves as well as the LNE alternatives, but changes the subject when his claims are challenged and as far as I've seen has never backed them up. Of course Jake has his own part to play by always taking the bait and getting into a pissing contest with him. Charles seems to have a pretty level head and mostly sticks to the important stuff, but he lets Martin get to him as well. I think Martin has shared (or caused Jake to share) some good info so I think there is hope for him, but he needs to calm down and stop treating every mention of the LNE bearing as a call to arms. Jake can be an ***, but he has put his time in and earned his reputation in the community as an authority which lets his abrasive manner get overlooked by many. Martin on the other hand is a new comer to the Porsche community and needs to earn his reputation and the tolerances that go along with it. So far, unfortunately, he has built a reputation of questionable business practices (choosing company names that Porsche won't look kindly towards) and being antagonistic to the current accepted authority on these motors. I hope he knows his stuff and I hope his work bears that out and he starts to gain a support base like Jake and Charles have. That will only help the community as a whole. Only time will tell, but until he stops with the constant attacks he won't get the chance and we all lose.

Get over the frickin company name things. Its really irrelevant to anything technical or having to do with Martin's products or services. I would chalk it up at least somewhat to his command of English as well as being a foreign national. There are probably some different business practices in his homeland. IMHO, no harm, no foul. Ok maybe Porsche sees some harm.... It does seem, at very least from the last batch of posts that he does in fact have something to add to the mix and does provide an alternate to the very expensive and most likely superior FSI engines. Different stokes for different folks. I for one, should I ever be in need of an engine will consider one from Martin. That does not necessarily mean that will be my vendor, but I would consider it When I change out my IMSB, he does provide a viable alternative. Maybe its better, maybe it is not, but it is a viable alternative to LN. There are others as well and the RND one could be interesting

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You are correct and in relation to his technical ability, which is why I explicitly linked it to his business acumen. I can chalk Porscheland up to not understanding the legalities of such things if he started it up shortly after moving here (no idea if that was the case), but "Forscheland" screams of trying to thumb his nose at Porsche and he should have already had a lawyer (after the first round) to run the name by. I'm not saying Porsche was right as I have big objections to how "fair use" is abused by copyright and trademark holders (e.g. no one was ever going to mistakenly think his shop was directly connected to Porsche). Honestly I'm a bit surprised Benz hasn't gone after him for his current name, but I guess they don't have the same stick up their ***. The problem is indeed not technical, but it speaks to how he runs his business and would makes me question if his business has staying power. Unfortunately it's often the case that good technical people don't have the mindset to be good at business. That's when you get a good office manager to run the business side of the house though.

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His initials are MB, They would not have a leg to stand on. He is not using Mercedes or Benz at all Yea, Forscheland was a bit far fetched I was in the computer business when PCs were just starting. I had a product I called DL-AT and eventually got a hate letter (C&D) from IBM as AT was their trademark. I felt like I made the big time being on IBM's radar. I renamed it to DL-286 and laughed all the way to the bank

I just now went online and trademarked "Gnat," "JayG," and "Sneaky Pete." Any of you use those from now on, and you are getting a nasty letter from my attorney.

Dear Messrs gnat, JayG and Sneaky Pete, I represent Cuda, Inc, owner of certain duly trademarked and copyrighted names that the 3 of you are illegally utilizing. This letter is your notice to cease and desist from all future usage of your names to refer to yourselves. Failure to comply will result in substantial fines and penalties including but not limited to forced participation in M96 maintenance interval discussions with KK and Rolex watch tours with JohnnyIrish. Very Truly Yours,

JohnCK2014, I am not sure if you are still following this thread, but thank you very much for taking the time to post your experiences and thoughts. I appreciate it, and I am sure many others do too. b-man

Quotes source post: 12584997

Hey Cuda, according to my lawyer I have a long enough history using this name that it is in fact you that are in violation of my trademark by even writing my name in your posts. Because I'm a nice guy, I'm giving you a heads up that he will be filing our lawsuit against both you and that ambulance chaser you call a lawyer on Monday. Expect to be served with the paperwork shortly. P.S. I was a bit angry when I received you C&D this morning. With a clearer head I'm regretting the things I did to it, so I ask that you please not open the envelope when the Post Office returns it you. Straight to the trash is best, preferably outside in a well ventilated area. I don't think they should either. I've seen less stable cases actually make it in front of a judge though. Some trademark holders just like to throw out C&Ds and win by fear. Some will even take stupid cases like that to trial just to win by dragging it out and running up legal fees on the defendant. As much as I like their cars, Porsche (or at least PCNA) has been overly aggressive in protecting their name and I think Martin's case is one such example. I feel bad for him about Porscheland. I understand why he would lose the case, but I don't agree with it. I think he brought the Forscheland debacle on himself, but I still think it's wrong that they had legal standing to make him change it. Just because I think they are wrong, however, doesn't change that I question Martin's business sense about the choices he made to end up in that position.

Just think that this could have been resolved by just a simple phone call by Mr. Raby, and informing him on who to contact. But no we have role around in the mud like pigs. If Mr. Raby wouldn�t apply the Clinton rule of deny everything for as long as possible and maybe people will forget. Instead of just being accept the problem and give the customer some information this would of only been a one page thread, instead of 14 pages. Now Mr. Raby first comment the 14th. Post starts out with �Let's get something straight now.� And ends with �THE PART THAT FAILED WAS NOT OUR PART!� He must of gone to the Dale Carnegie school of customer relations. This is as affective as talking to the IRS, your local Drivers License Bureau, or any politician in this country. Just a simple phone call but some people like to do it the hard way.

Jesus, we're back to this again? John called the wrong place. Jud told him to call LNE. WTF did Jake need to call this guy for? Especially since he was on vacation? Jake is entirely correct. Flat 6 has nothing to do with this guy's bearing. That Jake developed it is irrelevant to the commentary of the first post and has no liability or responsibility for F6I. The guy got exactly the customer support he should have. He was told to call the correct place. Instead of doing that, however, he came on the Internet to bitch about how he called a company he had no business calling and they aren't letting him talk to the owner. The guy even admits to being an *** when he started talking to Jud. If he had been more polite maybe F6I would have talked to him about buying his motor if they had need of it, but would you really want to give someone money for a broken thing when they've acted like John admits he did? Do you people that bitch about the lack of customer service in this case call your doctor when your power goes out and then get pissed because they don't do anything for you?

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dear mom(b-man), i told you to please stay off my computer and out of my personal business. i'd also appreciate a little more cream when you change my diaper - i'm itchy. love, your son(JohnCK2014)

Quotes source posts: 12585677, 12553556, 12553930, 12553930

Actually, I do not see that anywhere. The car owner was more than reasonable, quite the opposite of what you are claiming: It seems like a lot of people are projecting their insecurities on the car owner. Let me summarize what most reasonable people are thinking after reading this thread: I am glad the car owner posted his experiences here. These car forums do a great job of keeping car manufacturers honest, dealerships honest, mechanics honest, . . . and aftermarket designers and sellers of questionable parts honest too. By the way, I have no ties to the original poster or any designer/seller of parts in this thread. b-man

Quotes source posts: 12586372, 12553493, 12553556

That's a pretty **** poor way to start a conversation with someone you want to give you some money for your dead motor. While John didn't say it in his first post (and I don't remember if he fessed up later), Jake refuted that he was blown off and was in fact told by Jud to contact both the installer and LNE. Just what did Jake "need" to call this guy back for? He doesn't want the motor, the bearing wasn't sold by his company, the bearing wasn't installed by his company, the guy has no interest in having the company rebuild the motor, and he was kind of an *** (by his own admission). Yeap, just the type of call I'd drop everything and return while I'm on vacation This thread isn't about keeping Jake, F6I, or LNE "honest". It is about an idiot that called the wrong place and then got upset when he was told to call the correct place.

gnat is spot on - the OP was totally off on his assumptions as well as acting like a child when told the reality of the situation. the OP being combative to the one person(jake) who could have been of help, again showing all of us just how ignorant the OP is. thats when the OP's boat took on the forum waters, which filled his bilge, sinking his uneducated boat.

I missed the post where FSI told the OP to contact LN?

Quotes source post: 12586372

No mention there of keeping owner's honest there... I can't believe that this thread is still going, and some people still think that we did something wrong.

Oh nooooo Deja Vu all over again Does the expression "flogging a dead horse" have any meaning to anyone

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That's a reasonable way to start that conversation, if said in a calm and polite manner (as the car owner claims and no one disputes). As I pointed out earlier, he made it clear he didn't call to get someone to give him money for the dead motor. Would he have accepted some money if it was offered? Maybe. But, he would have been fine with just a call back: This thread currently has over 12,000 views. I don't think people are coming away from this feeling very good about any of the vendors posting in it. But if you and groovzilla are right and I am wrong, then this is great advertising for Jake Raby, Flat 6 Innovations, Charles Navarro, and LN Engineering. b-man

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Yeah, I used to have that album.

I have to admit that last week was almost a record for IMS related emails. I believe the only time we've gotten more chatter was during the IMS Class Action Settlement time period. We booked almost 2 months worth of jobs since this thread started. Thats pretty crazy, if it is related to the thread; because we so very seldom get any purchasers that say they heard about us here, its most always word of mouth. Or maybe it's just better since we changed the phone lines around. I know Jud sure is getting a lot more done. :-)

This thread currently has over 12,000 views. I don't think people are coming away from this feeling very good about any of the vendors posting in it. But if you and groovzilla are right and I am wrong, then this is great advertising for Jake Raby, Flat 6 Innovations, Charles Navarro, and LN Engineering. b-man[/QUOTE] those vendors and jake raby don't need any advertising - the crappy design of the 996 engine give them plenty of business

Quotes source post: 12584905

+996, this is the way I view it as well. People have to ask themselves why there aren't more engine vendors involved in these forums and I think you can clearly see why. RL needs to change it's way of thinking as it will utlimately provide the end user with more options and choices and invite a more friendly environment for other shops to participate in this forum(quite a few come to mind).

Quotes source post: 12584905

Keep in mind, it went above and beyond the use of Porsche's name. He also used the Porsche type-set/font and corporate colors in his website. He also kept the type-set/font and color scheme when he changed to Forscheland. And it's completely relevant to Martin's ethics and intellect.

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Why are you so hung up on the name portion? I think we all know where you stand but give us something more concrete next time instead of the old broken record.

The mechanically ignorant are going to make you pay for that comment.

I guess I'm not really understanding the degree of anti-Martin sentiment - I suspect that the majority of the people who have opined have not had any work done by MBMotorsports. If Martin, Jake, and Charles want to go at each other, that's fine. I'm pretty sure Jake doesn't especially need the vocal support of the Internet forum users to make it through the day... Me, I'm just going to concentrate on pissing off as few vendors as possible here on RL, especially those who offer services that I may potentially need in the future. I may or may not like how so-and-so says such-and-such about so-and-so - but I think I'll reserve passing dickish, unsubstantiated judgment for older members who wear Brooks Bros. sportswear.

Quotes source post: 12590129

Probably not, KK...he was actually making a point, not maniacally running around the Internet repeating it as though he has some bizarre form of automotive Tourette syndrome. Suggesting that people are ignorant because they get sick of hearing your incessant sky-is-falling routine is magnificently egotistical...the assumption that our collective annoyance with you is somehow indicative of a problem with US - and your belief that you have mastered some difficult concept that eludes us merely because we don't spend hours and hours and paragraphs and paragraphs maligning the M96...demonstrates a mix of denial and smug self-admiration...

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FIFY

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This is the most concise and accurate description to date. Well done sir.

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Having one's tongue firmly inserted in another's 'arris makes it difficult to see beyond the end of one's nose.

this is my dawg....his name is "RICO!"

He looks Suave. Do you work for the justice dept., and if so, is Rico a clever reference to your profession?

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What bearing does this have on failure?

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Gerardo - Rico Suave (1990 Music Video)(lyrics in description) - YouTube

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I'm 52 but feel like 12 ....and who is this guy Brooks and how many brothers does he have?

Here's Brooks. He spent too long on the inside, couldn't handle life once he got out. RIP, Brooks. Red was one of his "brothers;" I'm not sure about the rest.

Andy, is the younger brother.

Speaking of Andy...

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"Bailiff, whack his peepee" Cheech and Chong Happy now? He has been punished Nope, not relevant. Keep drinking the koolaid It's very clear, there are 2 camps 1> the "If it ain't Raby or LN, its crap" camp 2> most of the rest of the world

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Wow, this from a business owner that is in the service industry 😳

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I stand behind the statement, still today.

You talk a mean game, Raby, but your treatment of Sneaky Pete's situation as retold above suggests you're not quite as good at not giving a damn as you claim.

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I take care of those who appreciate what we create enough to pay the price of admission. These are the people who have built this business, you know, the ones who you never hear complain. As long as the critics are NOT owners, buyers, and believers, the opinions they hold will remain insignificant.

Jake some will never be satisfied with whatever answer you give. Whatever your doing must be working for you.

Time to bust out my favorite avatar ever...

Quotes source post: 12554519

After owning and driving this car for a while longer....I've reconsidered. I love this flat 6. I'm saving for a Flat 6 Innovations Stage 1 rebuild. Most likely this is my first and last Porsche. Oh, I did have a '74 914 2.0 some years ago. Back when they were not considered to be a real Porsche. I guess I'm moving from "Conversionism to Pureism"?

Its expensive for sure but if you want an M96 that wont fail, your going to the right place. Jake can fix every known M96 MOF that causes CEF. Please update the progress of the build when you can.

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That's so sweet...

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Having read the entire thread for the last hour, I feel compelled to provide my opinion for what it is worth on this subject. First to the OP. You were definitely confused and allowed your emotions to get the best of you. It is understandable that you did not know who to blame, but you seemed to have a hard time grasping reality even when it was repeated to you time and time again. I wish you the best of luck with your car and hope you have many happy miles ahead of you. Jake, I want to first thank you for your service to this country and all that you have done for those of us who rely on guys (and gals) like you who provide us with the freedom we enjoy every day. I am the CEO of a company and quite a bit older than you so I have some experience in business that you can listen to or throw in the trash. I have also made a habit out of hiring JMOs and enlisted men for the past twenty years. I have hired several marines like you and I have seen a common trait in all of you. In fact, I'm currently mentoring a graduate of the Naval Academy who works in my company. In this thread, I think you came across as arrogant, feeling that people need you more than you need people. You wrote far more than you needed to or should have and it looks like you agree with this assessment. You should have explained your position by stating the FACTS and then just let it go. Getting in an argument with the OP, others in this forum, or ANY potential customer is simply bad business. You claim you want to solve engine problems and not human problems, but it is the humans that pay you and make your business stronger. You have never been hired by an engine. I've had many conversations with the marine working for me that you can "win the battle but lose the war"....just to put things in military jargon. People can and frequently are frustrating to deal with, but companies who can learn to deal with people are the ones that stay around the longest. The Marine working for me just can't avoid a battle. He gets confrontational when the best course of action is to find some common ground and move on. A common trait?

Rectorbill, The difference is that other Marine is working for you, so you can feel free to judge him all day long. I believe in detail with everything I do, and I don't play political crap, nor do I sugarcoat anything, for anyone, for any reason. The common trait is that we never quit, and we never give up.

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Was this really necessary????

I can't believe that I'm commenting on this zombie thread but when you are in a position to choose with whom to do business, it's best to stay as far away from the PITA customers as possible.

Of course it was. He is older and wiser than me, and obviously knows more about how to run my business, than I do. I bet watching a football game with him would be interesting.

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Thank you so much for proving my point. Best of luck to you. You are as hard headed as they come.

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The obvious answer to your question is "no" it was not. Then again, were any of the hundreds of posts on this thread necessary? Was it necessary for the OP to write this in the first place? Was it necessary for the God of Porches to write all he did and threaten never to answer your phone calls again? Was it necessary for you to write "was this necessary". If you don't like reading people's opinions, then why are you on this site. That is all these sites are....a bunch of people's opinions!

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No Bill, it's a bunch of a$$holes. I felt it necessary to correct you.

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Damn right.

So your slamming Jake for having the guts to use facts and tell the truth? Is it reasonable to believe you can tell JR how to run his business when you know nothing about it? That's why there's different business models for different types of service and customer base. Just from the way you insulted Marines and JR, I can't fathom how any customer would give you the time of day. Stick to what you know, dou#$% ba@.

Jake, does it creep you out even a little when KK runs up out of nowhere and jumps between you and the playground bully (that you are quite capable of dropping by yourself)? Because, I gotta tell you, this man crush of his is very weird to watch.

This?

Jake, I attempted to call your hotline to complain about a slightly used Dalmatian I bought, but you won't answer the damn phone. Please pick up the phone - I'd like to sell you this damn dog, or if you're not interested in buying, at least you can explain why the spots are coming off and it's starting to look more and more like a white mutt with black spots painted on it. Yours truly, Not a customer

Quotes source post: 12729405

I think he's got too much muscle definition to be you, but yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I'd need a picture of him draining almost new DT-40 out of an M96 to be sure if it's you or not.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53019801.jpg

I can't tell which one is KK... bromancing.jpg

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If that is the way you see it, then you are a moron. I have not told him how to run his business and he is free to run it any way he sees fit. I have enough experience to know that if you believe your customers are engines and not people, you probably are going to have some issues. I have done more for Marines that you will ever have so shove it.

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Oh goody, KK has made another friend

...

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you have a dirty mind Pete Its the boys leg

Based on Pete and JayG's comments about the boy's leg & foot, I was looking for the "My word, you're a tripod" clip from Austin Powers where Mini Me shows off his, well, you know. Couldn't find the short clip. Did find this, though, and thought we could all use a little comic relief: Top 10 of Austin Powers Films Moments - YouTube

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Hmmm.... that don't sound too rectorly-like to me....

i didn't see rectal-bill's reason for summarizing the thread other than starting a pissing match (i just really missed using the popcorn icon)

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he was responding to KK ya know

Quotes source post: 12731095

That was my point before he jumped all over me too. Admittedly its been entertaining though.....

Sorry to flog the dead horse, did the original poster ever mention if the LN Bearing was a Classic or Pro? Im just curious... I have a single row pro. I'm also in Australia so you're all lucky to own these cars in the states with all this excellent engineering and engine building happening When the time comes ill have the solution installed

Quotes source post: 12731848

To date zero failures of the Single Row Pro have been reported.

Quotes source post: 12731864

Excellent to hear, will sleep well tonight! Thanks

What about the other MOF's?

KrazyK-why all the negativity ? You have gone from a very good positive contributor to the forum to a first class sniper .Does not make sense

KK's posts are 100% troll now, and he thinks it's acceptable because he includes a stupid-as-fsck disclaimer in his signature. The boy-man who sold his 996 because he was "a-feared" of it is now compensating by being a forum cancer to the rest of us who...you know...LIKE our 996's. This is why KK's on my ignore list - at least I only have myself to blame when I read one of his worthless posts.

Quotes source post: 12732188

There's less negative peeps on here that's actually had an engine failure or any kind of major failure. AFAIK, KK's only had the SAI fail on him. If that's all it takes to get his panties in a bunch, I dunno how he'll survive the rest of his life.

Relax, it was just a joke about him being able to sleep at night. Which, Im sure was also a joke. Maybe the self appointed PC forum thread patrol could be specific about what is, and Is not allowed, being as any absurd drivel they post is OK.

Your "jokes" always go over so well - so I understand why you continue to tell them. How can you help it, what with everyone in the forum clamoring for more of your quality posts. They're amazing. For future reference, THAT is what a joke looks like.

OK, I'll put that down in the "schnelly doesn't allow" rule list. Thanks, bruh!

Quotes source post: 12590129

I relish finding little tidbits like this from KK months and years after...well, you know.

I don't think I ever read that thread. Quite refreshing in hindsight....in a "Man, I don't ever want to be THAT guy" sort of way.

Only got to page 3 so far, been a good read. I'm confused OP you mentioned a few times you bought a part (IMSB) then a few times it was already installed when you bought the car. You then point blame to a company that has nothing to do with you and are touting YELP to offer a solid review for a "good shop" ok it might be for a GM or Honda, but a Porsche, I don't think I'd go to Yelp for that review...not trying to be a dick but you are either very forgetful or very confused, either way, I hope the new engine works out for you and it does suck that your engine failed. My thought it that shop is trying to jerk your around.