Dealer Unable to Program New Keys

So, my 996 was stranded deep in an underground parking garage for about 40 days because I lost my only key (yes, I know, I know, I should have had a duplicate made when I bought the car). It took a forklift and two different two trucks to remove the car from the garage. I accumulated $810 in parking fees. The parking garage manager is trying to sue me because the tow truck supposedly made some scratches on the floor of the garage. Life just keeps getting better! Anyhow, I ordered two new keys from Germany via the Porsche dealer, showing my ownership papers and ID. A month later the keys arrived. The dealer twice came to the garage with the PIWIS computer/system in an attempt to program the new key codes into the ECU, and failed both times. The battery is completely flat, new keys opened the door without any alarm sounding. Dealer popped the engine compartment using the emergency cable, and them proceeded to connect the car to a 12V source using the jump points in the engine bay. Alarm went off, dash lit up, and dealer connected the PIWIS system. On both occasions, I was told that the ECU was not accepting the commands to change the key codes. After extracting the car from the garage, the car is now sitting at the dealer, and has been for a few days. I am still being told "The car's computer won't allow the key codes to be added." TL;DR: Out of sheer morbid curiosity, what could possibly prevent the Porsche dealer with all necessary equipment from being able to code the ECU for my new keys? Is it because the car sat for over a month and the battery was completely drained? This is a bit worrying, as Porsche are the only people with everything needed to do the job, and right now my car is looking like a giant insurance write off.

Incompetence

I bet the parking garage owner sees Porsche and automatically smells $. Very sorry for your troubles, and continued stress. I sure hope the cars not on the $ clock at the dealership as well. I bet your battery is toast from sitting to long and it's not drawing enough juice to properly run electrical components. This should only be a few minutes to program a key. I would drop a new battery in.

Thanks for the sympathy. Yes, the garage manager is a greedy opportunistic piece of ****. I'll have to find a way to properly repay his kindness later. As the original key is gone, the old key-in-the-door and battery connect to fuse box terminal to pop the hood trick doesn't work unless a key paired with the car's ECU is in the door. Hood emergency release cable is behind the driver's side wheel well, and of course the wheel lock key is inside the god damned locked front trunk! Everything that can go wrong, has gone wrong. The absolute best case scenario is that the car requires a fully charged battery and that somehow connecting the car directly to a 12V source via the engine bay where you'd normally jump start it simply isn't enough to re-program the ECU for the new keys. Another day has gone by with no process. Being told by the dealer that they can't get the new keys to work is beyond stressful.

Agree with Atrox. Has the dealer tried putting a new fully charged battery in?

They are still trying to get the hood open. I guess the body shop may have relocated or accidentally bumped the hood emergency release cable when they were disassembling or reassembling my car after a full paint job two years ago. I've heard you need the key to use the battery jumper hood pop method, but others have told me you don't. I assume if they cannot find the emergency hood release cable, they may have to cut the hood off to access the battery =(

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^Bingo^ ! We have a winnah!!!! Unless you're buying a new car from them, they could really care less... Just my experience

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Wow...what an ordeal - sorry to hear of all this. You don't need a key in the door to pop the trunk. There is nothing in the door lock to electronically recognize a key so any properly keyed blade will open the door. There are two electronic parts of the key - one is the remote transmitter to lock/unlock, arm/disarm, open trunk, etc. Two is the transponder chip that allows the ignition to recognize the key as authorized to start the car. When trying to open the trunk have you hooked up a fully charged battery to the red connector in the fuse panel (follow the owner's manual instructions exactly)? A dealer should also have a set of master lug lock keys to remove the wheel. If not they can force the lock off allowing you to remove the wheel and access the trunk cable. Once the trunk is open, I'd put in a new battery and then have the dealer use the PIWIS to reprogram everything. Good luck.

The car has aftermarket wheels and locks, so the dealer will have to drill or break the locks if it comes to that. When the car was stuck in the garage, I did try connecting a battery to the pull out terminal in the fuse box, and the other cable to ground, but the hood would not pop. Maybe the battery was too small? It was from a Benz Smart Car. When connected directly to a 12v source, all of the car's electricals come to life; headlights, horn, alarm, dash lights, etc. From what the dealer told me, there is some communication between the ECU and the PIWIS, but the ECU refuses to accept modifications to the already written code. Unfortunately for them, since Porsche insists on having a monopoly on key programming for their cars, they are basically obligated to come up with a solution to the problem. If it were any other problem, they could simply tell me they can't solve it and to try elsewhere, but this key programming issue, specifically, is a Porsche problem. This is also the same dealer that provided the new keys. The new Cayenne keys can be duplicated easily using a non-Porsche device. My Maserati key was programmed without the car even being at the dealer. The 996 style key is seemingly designed to make your life hell when you lose it. Obviously, anyone in this board who does not have two sets of 996 keys should get a duplicate made immediately, before driving the car anywhere. Losing this particular key to this particular car is particularly painful.

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This could be a teachable moment for all of us to keep the wheel lock key in the glove box (or other accessible place) in the event things go horribly wrong. Since Porsche delivered the car with the key in the frunk we keep it there... but now I'm not so sure that's a smart decision regardless of whether we have OE or aftermarket wheels.

I'm curious, what does a new key cost for a 996?

About $350 for the key and programming. Edit: From the P-car dealer both in the US and Canada. Ask me how I know.

What does the valet key do and not do?

Does your car have any anti theft devices installed?

---->Re: how much does the key cost? -It depends on where you are. It also depends on whether you want to piece a key and transponder together yourself using parts from different places. Some people buy the blank on eBay, and the transponder somewhere else, and then have an expert cut the key. If you lose both keys, the dealer will need to cut the key. Some dealers can do this, others will have the key cut in Germany using your vehicle identification number. I ordered the two key assemblies from the dealer precisely for this reason; if the dealer has trouble getting a key to work that was not purchased through them, they are likely to blame the key and send you packing if they can't get it to work. Though I paid somewhere near $800 USD for both keys/transponder fobs, the dealer cannot blame me for the new Porsche supplied keys not working. Total damage thus far: $810 in parking fees, $800 in key replacement fees, $200 in tow fees, car still not starting over a month after losing the key. And the parking garage is trying to extort $500 from me because they claim the tow truck scratched the floor while removing my car. ---->Re: teaching moment: Yes, absolutely. Never ever keep your wheel lock key in the front-trunk. Hide it inside your vehicle somewhere else. Also, the emergency front trunk release cable, it is worth relocating this to an easier to reach location. Some people have wrapped it around the tow hook mount area. And again, get duplicates of your key made. It will be expensive, but no matter what, losing your only key later on will be MUCH MORE expensive. I'm 34 years old. This is my first time losing any type of key. It literally fell out of my pocket on a cold day. I searched for nearly 10 hours. A month later it still has not turned up in any of the businesses I visited on that day. That being said, I have to give two thumbs up to Porsche's Emergency Roadside assistance program. Though my 911 is 14 years old, they still dealt with it using great care. The emergency roadside tech actually borrowed a PIWIS from the dealer, and a battery charger/12v supply and tried for a few hours to get the keys working on location where the car was stranded. When that failed, he stuck around and helped the fork lift/tow truck people safely extract the car, which took about 6 hours start to finish.

Sweet victory: My car has no aftermarket electronics installed. The electrical system is all original and untouched. I drove it right up until a few hours before losing the key, and the car was in perfect working order at that point, with never any electrical malfunctions. Battery is about 7 months old, but was likely drained down to zero by the dash cam I left plugged into the lighter outlet when I locked the car the final time prior to losing the key.

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Maybe...owner's manual refers to using a "donor" battery and the picture shows a full size battery...but no further description. Sounds like you're closer to success.

Also, tell the garage manager to **** off. It's the tow truck driver's problem, not yours. https://www.progressivecommercial.co...operty-damage/

Just providing some additional input based on some of the comments made here, based on my "new key" experiences thus far. Oh yeah - 2001 C2. On Tuesday, April 5th, I purchased a new key blade and remote head from my local Porsche dealer. $268, tax and programming not included. PCA discount applied. They said it would be 2-3 days to come in. Based on that, I'm assuming it's coming from PCNA; other comments in this thread hinted that the key comes from Germany. Not disputing, only pointing out info my dealer gave me. As I type this, it is the AM of the 3rd day; no word yet. Side note: I originally thought about purchasing a key remote from eBay, and using the "key in the mail" company for a new blade. My local preferred indy said they *could* program it, but they'd really like me to take it to the dealer. While at the dealership to order the key, I spoke to the service dept about whether I could just drop in to have them reprogram it. They said they'd like me to make an appt, and to be prepared, because SOME times it takes several tries to get the programming to stick. He said that while it's rare, they've seen 3-4 hour attempts to do the programming. So, the comments made above may not be that far off-base as some think.

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Not unusual at all to get 2 day delivery out of Germany - almost everything comes by air freight now.

Hammerthrow I remember that you are not in the US. Also Porsche keys from different countries use different frequencies for the transmitter, at least between US and Europe. Was your car imported. Are they sure the correct transmitter frequency is being used?

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My car was originally purchased in Japan. Since the keys were made by Porsche Germany to match my car's VIN number, shouldn't any Porsche PIWIS system be able to sync them with the ECU? I am no longer in Japan, and obviously bringing the car to Japan for programming would not be impossible. Edit: you are onto something regarding the frequency of the remote. Japan's original frequency is 315mhz, but the local frequency here is 433mhz. If Porsche Germany sent a 433 MHz key fob, this is why it will not sync. Will update and let you know. Thanks for all input and advice guys.

Is there any way to check the frequency of the key fobs using the paperwork they sent?

According to the part numbers in Auto Atlanta you have the 315 MH transmitters. Japan same as US? Not sure if the PIWIS speaks 315,433 etc or different countries dealerships have frequency specific models. http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...=99663724442#a

Yeah, the PIWIS system should be able to communicate with the ECU, especially since the car functioned perfectly and without any fault codes right up until being parked.

This is the biggest BS I have ever hear especially coming from a dealer ??. I had the exact same thing happen to me and it was no problem what so ever. Car was left for 1 year in underground car park battery completely dead lost keys! What I did 1) ordered new key pre cut from main dealer 2) opened car drivers door 3) put electrical pulse through cigarette lighter and everything lit up flickering etc at this point no hesitation quick flick of electrical connector on bonnet switch and hey presto bonnet open! 4) if it is not opening which is strange as it should then with electrical connection maintained to cigarette lighter port and slave battery in footwell shut the drivers door. Use the key turning in door barrel to unlock all Central locking. Re enter car! 5) if that still fails for some strange reason ?? Then with electrical connection still maintained through cig lighter if fitted with electric seats then move the nearside seat forwards using a impact wrench or socket undo rear seat bolts. Move seat back undo from seat bolts. 6) tilt seat back now that it is no longer bolted down and unplug Alarm module and leave it unplugged! 7) now try opening bonnet ! 8) in any case when all keys are lost to a car a new Virgin Alarm module is needed which needs to be plugged in before attempting to try to program a new key into the car ! Also you need the IPASS CODES ASWELL AS PST2 tester or piwis. I managed to do all this myself as I have a Porsche computer & access to IPASS CODES. For my car all I needed was to buy a virgin alarm module ! Then code that alarm module to the ECU then use the Learn functions to program new key ! It was very straightforward, I managed to program a key start car all with in 4 minutes from entering and that included removing seat bolts as well to remove alarm module and plug new module in. Your dealer seems incompetent to me! I do not think it is a Porsche dealer ? Programming keys is some thing dealers are aware of !

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Thanks for your detailed post. Very helpful! So every time a person loses both keys, a new alarm module is required? I have not ordered a new alarm module. My car is at an official Porsche dealership, but I should note that I don't think they were doing business in this country officially until the 2000's, and not in a large capacity until the 997 was released. Their experience with 911s is mostly limited to the 997 and newer models. The 911 is an exceedingly rare car here. This is likely the first 996 they've seen with both keys lost.

Wow! This looks like a total nightmare scenario...I've got nothing to add but to let you know I'm following with interest, and wish you the best!

Yes with out a virgin Alarm module the existing Alarm module locks out all communications with ECU and alarm module ! Surely they have workshop manuals the Key programming procedure is detailed in them. They are available on CD off eBay for a couple of �$€� what ever currency you use ! I am in UK and here I can open up a existing Alarm module and I know which chip to remove & I rewrite that chip with Virgin Data so in essence an old alarm module becomes a new alarm module! But in your case you need a new Virgin alarm module not a used one as it will not work, plus you need IPASS codes plus you need Porsche computer! And the key you are trying to program must have the RFID pill in the remote head of that is missing then it will not program. In your case I think the key heads are good because they new! The blade is good that's new ! But you are still using old Alarm module ! ONCE NEW ALARM MODULE INSTALLED IT NEEDS TO BE PAIRED TO CAR ECU THEN A KEY NEEDS TO BE ADDED TO ALARM MODULE SIMPLES REALLY AMAZING THEY DO NOT ASK TECHNICAL SUPPORT !

Make sure they know exactly what they are doing ! You only have once chance of pairing alarm module with ECU. If they type in the wrong numbers and alphabet sequence they will rewrite the Virgin alarm module with wrong data !!! Then you will have to buy a new alarm module again to re do the procedure. Make sure they have a copy of the workshop manual and follow the key programming procedure carefully ! It is imperative that they check double check before hitting the save button on computer as ,once wrong codes are imputed you have junked a virgin module! If you get stuck I will try to dig up procedure it's been a while since I did this as I have sold my water cooled Porsches and now have aircooled 964 & 993 cars, 😂😂😂

Wow, this is some scary ****! Time for me to pony up for a second key and move my wheel lock!

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This has been useful beyond words. I think my car is sitting because they are going back and forth with Germany, trying to figure out what to do, plus I didnt really have an appointment, I just kind of left my car on that day because I had no choice, so it's probably not their top priority. Of course, my car is occupying one of their four service bays, and they can't get it out of their underground service bays without towing it again. I'm sure they'd like to get it out ASAP so they can deal with other cars. I'll ask them about the alarm module on Monday.

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Wrong, this is BS. There are 6 or 8 slots for new keys to be programmed into the immobilizer and unless all of them have been taken, you should be able to use one of the available slots. I've personally had this done and looked over the guys shoulder the entire time at all the screens on the PST2.

I am late to this thread, but am I understanding the following correctly? 1. Only key for car has gone missing 2. You have access to the cabin 3. You have access to the engine bay Is the frunk still inaccessible? What year is the 996?

Wrong, this is BS. There are 6 or 8 slots for new keys to be programmed into the immobilizer and unless all of them have been taken, you should be able to use one of the available slots. I've personally had this done and looked over the guys shoulder the entire time at all the screens on the PST2. PLEASE PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY I HAVE FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE IF THIS ! Please take five minutes on Monday morning google another Porsche dealer and inform them you have lost all keys for a car and you wish to program new keys to the car regardless of if you want to program one key or two keys to the car they will state new alarm module required!!!!!! THIS IS SIMPLE THE CAR IS LEFT IN A LOCKED STATE! hence the alarm is automatically armed to disarm the alarm a recognised key needs to be inserted into the ignition within 30 seconds of door opening otherwise alarm sounds ! NOW THE FACT YOUR BATTERY IS TOTALLY DEAD ALARM WILL NOT SOUND ! But once you power up via fuse box or cigar lighter the alarm will try to sound but will not be 100% as other devices will also be sucking the current at the same time including the dead battery! The Alarm ECU takes on board keys to start car their are 6 slots available but you cannot access your alarm ECU because it is in an alarmed state. To access that ECU the alarmed state has to be cancelled !!! This can only be done by recognised key !!! Which if you had in the first place you would not be needing to access the alarm ECU? As your car will start! A recognised key is one that is programmed to the ECU ! I am an absolute authority on this matter as I believe I am one of few people on here who can hack an alarm module on a Porsche 996 and I can introduce a key onto it with out IPASS CODES I simply remove the alarm module. I then open it up desolder a specific chip then read said chip reflash a code line then rewrite software to the chip and now key is on system and car will start. With out pst2 tester or IPASS codes !! I can do this with out blowing my own trumpet because I am an authority on the matter. If you post out your old scrap alarm module I can post it back to you with a little glass rfid pill in a little bag back to you! Once you insert this pill into your key fob remove the existing one and your car will start! I am in the UK THIS IS NOT BS I KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ONCE YOU GET IT SORTED PLEASE REPORT BACK ON HERE! People on forums tend to quote BS but on this occasion I speak FACT !

as a follow up just in case for some reason you decide to throw away those paper tags that are attached to the key heads you will need to buy new fobs again. The Paper tags are attached to each fob contain a code string along the bottom which is a sequence of alphabet and numbers. This code string is to program the radio code frequency settings do your remote will work to unlock doors and lock. If you lose the code string (then you will need to buy new fobs) or mix them up from one fob to the other it can make it difficult for the Tech to program up. after they have managed to program keys on ask for them tags back and keep them in your Porsche paper work as you cannot get that information on those tags again once you lose or discard them! (this is why used fobs on ebay have no value as they will most likey not come with those barcodes and cannot be reprogrammed to another P Car with out those barcodes. I would not be too fussed about mixing the tags up after they have been programmed as some one with a piwis can figure out which key is currently in the ignition at what time and the first 4 letters of the code string are shown up on the computer display so the tech will be able to figure out which remote is playing up at a later date if he has the original bar code tag along side him as he attempts to diagnose remote faults! HAVE YOU TRIED CONTACTING THE LOCAL POLICE STATION LOST AND FOUND DEPT WHERE YOU THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE LOST THE ORIGINAL KEY ? I HAVE DONE THIS IN THE PAST AND FOUND MY LOCAL STATION HAS A BIG BOX FULL OF KEYS HANDED IN BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC! ITS A LONG SHOT BUT WONT COST ANYTHING TO FIND OUT

Charge your batteries through the cig lighter for 2 days. It will allow you to open trunk. What is the exact problem when key is programmed? Does the car not respond? There is a pill inside the key which must be recognized by the ecu. Do you have a tune which can prevent key programming? What year is your 996. I don't see a lot of facts.

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First off you're wrong again. If you have absolute authority on this matter, why did you go to a dealer? Secondly, you couldn't figure out how to get a key paired to the immobilizer so your hack solution is to just disable it? And then recommend others do the same by paying you? Seems like you have some other motives going on if you're selling your services here. Here's the facts. I had my immobilizer flooded so I ordered a used one off eBay. I ordered a new key from the dealer. Gold Master tech from Porsche dealer was able to marry the new key to a used immobilizer which already had 2 key slots taken up. If your dealer can't do this type of stuff, you need to find someone more competent. Bottom line is you DO NOT need a new immobilizer.

I like Alpine

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HMMMMM! I went to the dealer to order a precut key to my vin number. they ordered me a precut blade. I do not have a machine shop in my garage and I do not have facilities to figure what the key laser cut should be from the vin number! I am sure a GOLD MASTER TECH WITH THE HELP OF A DIAMOND PLATINIUM TECH COULD PROBABLY CUT A KEY FOR MY CAR BY JUST LOOKING AT THE PICTURE OF MY CAR!!!! I however had no keys what so ever so unless I guess the highs and lows in a blank key shank I am not yet to the standard of a Diamond platinium Gold tech yet! lol So I used the services of my local dealer to cut me a key blade from the vin details I gave him. Secondly has any one ever tried getting IPASS codes for their car or any P car from a Porsche dealer ???? they are very reluctant to give this information out. Especially in the UK I am not sure about USA maybe they are more relaxed over the pond. Here in the UK if you ask for IPASS codes the dealer thinks you just called him something undesirable and gives you a funny look and points towards the EXIT. Basically if you have the IPASS codes for any porsche and a posrche computer you can go steal that porsche very easily ! I managed to get the IPASS codes for my car and several other cars but my dealer contact moved to another car marque dealership, hence with a drought on IPASS codes I hacked the ALARM MODULE. By doing the hack I no longer need IPASS codes to put keys on to the Alarm Module. I have not disabled the alarm system or the car security as all I have done is access the alarm module without the need for a porsche computer or IPASS codes. I know for a fact that a used Alarm module is of no use and is scrap! the only way a used alarm module can be used is if the seller sells The alarm module and the ECU and the transponder chip from the key all from the same car then this can be put into another porsche and the car will start if the seller gives the key fob head with the deal then the remote will work also! all part numbers needed to be matching as well you cannot for example use a 2004 alarm module ecu for a 1999 car it will not work. The only way you can start a car when you lose all keys is by buying a virgin alarm module !!!!!!!!!!!!!! the virgin alarm module is simply that VIRGIN no data on it !! then you have to introduce this VIRGIN module to the car ECU by programming it using the PIWIS after the module has been programmed then you can add up to 6 keys into the available slots! a alarm module has to be married to the ECU and you cannot marry a used Alarm module that is BS as the alarm module will mismatch with the ECU and will not communicate in essence it will lock out communications. The answer is simple GOOGLE A PORSCHE DEALER ,RING THEM , PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE ASK THEM YOU LOST ALL KEYS ? ASK THEM WILL YOU NEED A VIRGIN ALARM MODULE AS WELL AS THE KEYS AND IPASS CODES ? ASK TO SPEAK TO DIAMOND PLATINIUM GOLD PERIODIC TABLE ELEMENTS MASTER LORD VADER GURU TECH AND SEE IF HE CAN DO IT FOR YOU !!! MY HACKING OF THE PORSCHE MODULE WAS A FREE SERVICE PROVIDED I DO NOT SEE MENTION OF ANY FEE'S ??? maybe the DIAMOND GOLD TECH MIS UNDERSTOOD MY POST AND DID NOT OR COULD NOT READ IT AND ASSUMED I WAS ASKING FOR FEE'S ?? NO KEYS! CAR LOCKED = NEW ALARM MODULE AND IPASS CODES TO PROGRAM UP NEW KEY TO CAR. FULL STOP IF ANY DOUBTERS OUT THERE RING YOUR PORSCHE DEALER ASK TO SPEAK TO SERVICE DESK AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF !!!

WHEN CAR IS LOCKED THE ALARM STATE IS ACTIVATED REGARDLESS !!! OF BATTERY CONDITION AND WHEN POWER RE INTRODUCED TO CAR THE ALARM WILL SOUND ! the effect will be the car thinks someone is trying to steal it and will lock out all communications with alarm module via a porsche computer until a recognised key is inserted into the ignition! is this so hard to understand???? otherwise everyone would be stealing Porsche cars and the security system would be crap! does it not make sense ??? I will attach pages from work shop manuals to settle this !!

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Brother, you just spent hundreds of words blowing your trumpet. For future reference, any time you are referring to yourself as "the best," "the absolute authority," "the man," "pimp daddy alarm reprogrammer," or "ALARM G0D LuLZ," there is trumpeting afoot. Now that's OK - sounds like you have l337 skills...own it! If you have your EEPROM flash procedure document somewhere, I'd be interested to take a look - flashing is becoming a lost art since OBD-II programming became a thing. It looks like there are some KILLER tools out there now - USB dongles with onboard ZIF DIP sockets. Much cooler than the massive boxes with RS-232 cables and a UV source... Also worth nothing: There is more used of the word "virgin" in this thread than any other non-pr0n-related thread on the Internet.

PLEASE READ THREAD "LOST MY ONLY SET OF KEYS!!! i too was ignorant at some stage in my life and I learnt stuff ! I learnt the art of EEPROM flash and reading strings of code! what I hate is people spoutin BS as fact ! and an alarm module only costs �220 here in the UK which is not much in the scheme of things!

duplication deleted this messages

Even if you lose your only set of keys, you do NOT need a dealer to get keys made. Those in the know will know this(See below). Also it's clear you do not even know what a Gold master tech is as you are mocking the same system implemented by Porsche in describing the level of it's technicians/mechanics.

vehicle locksmith ! 100's of them operate in every town I am well aware of them. but they will charge you the same as the dealer would charge for an original HUT key not a cheap copy made from china! secondly I am well aware of master techs bronze /silver/gold etc I have out smarted the Gold tech at dealerships on Porsche matters on numerous occasions ! you still harping on about the original issue? which was locked car NO KEYS = NEW ALARM MODULE ! FACT NOT THE DRIBBLE YOU ARE STATING AS FACT imagine sending a fellow rennlister on a fools errand not to mention make him waste money TIME on buying a used alarm module only to find out OPC cannot do any thing with it. Next you probably going to say used remotes off ebay can be reprogrammed to p cars ? by master techs I can do it via a hack reading EEprom and deleting modifying code strings this can only be done if you know what you are doing. try explaining that to a master tech is very amusing. They only go by what the work shop manual and Porsche teach them the grading is based on their in house systems and exams, Knowledge is power!

By "outsmarted," do you mean "performed repairs/hacks that the technicians are not allowed to perform?" Maybe I missed it, but what exactly is the ax you're grinding here? Or, put differently: How does a bloke in Birmingham who can hack a Porsche alarm module help OP?

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NO OUTSMARTED by understanding computers ecu's technology can bus systems and other stuff p car related that the gold standard technician has no clue about ! I had a example a fellow P car enthusiast bring me his tiptronic 996 C4 with tip fault the gold chap said tip ECU faulty ! $$$ I diagnosed the fault within minutes fixed car saved that chap $$$ dealers are not the be all and all of P cars. Enthusiasts who do it for love not money, can be more knowledgeable then techs! I have no AX to grind just hate it when peeps give wrong advice and send some one on a wild goose chase! How I can help original OP by advising him he needs to inform his GOLD tech porsche techs at his particular dealership whom seem to be struggling to program new keys to his car how to do it. He already said his dealership with all its gold techs cannot do what is a simple procedure ! I am merely trying to advise him with out the need of other posters calling my information into doubt ! I EVEN SAID TO ORIGINAL OP that I doubt his car is at OPC as the gold techs cannot be that stupid surely ??

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You are missing my point which further explains to me that you think you know more than you really do. You stated the dealer is the only people that can get you a new key if you lose your key. You obviously don't know what the first pic of tool I posted is for then. I don't really know how you can argue my experience with buying used immobilizer and having new key programmed to it. If you don't believe me, then that's your prerogative but don't spew some BS and make people believe they need to buy a new immobilizer when that's not really the case. If you want to pay me for another used immobilizer/new key/funds to program it, I'll happily recreate my situation again. So basically if OP sent you his immobilizer, you'd be able to "fix" it for him so he can start his car? That would probably be the most helpful thing you can do instead of giving sermons on how knowledgable you are on here with all the self promotion.

I dunno, Alpy, CBR786 uses many more capital letters, so I'm inclined to believe him.

I have no AX to GRIND my wordings make me seems more hostile then I am ! ! and you are correct Porsche techs would not even dream of breaking a seal on a ECU to look inside! lol they rather replace said ECU at cost to owner of vehicle! when all that is wrong with ECU is a 2 cents component!

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Awe, you got me there Schnell. He also was pretty clever and used the blue font which I have yet to learn how to do.

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For starters, you can not use the "!" as that screams hostility. Secondly, many techs do take the ECU's apart, at least here in the states to check for any damage or corrosion. Since this is not a business and something you do for free as a kindness to other members, kindly explain what needs to be modded with more info.

I have no AX to GRIND my wordings make me seems more hostile then I am ! ! and you are correct Porsche techs would not even dream of breaking a seal on a ECU to look inside! lol they rather replace said ECU at cost to owner of vehicle! when all that is wrong with ECU is a 2 cents component!

This all seems a big unnecessary misunderstanding to me. Two totally different scenarios. CBR's scenario: immobilizer is armed and you lost all your keys => new immobilizer. Reason: immobilizer is in the armed state so it will cut off all its communication even to Porsche testers and the only way to get it out of that state (so it can be reprogrammed) is to use one of the paired keys. Or to physically remove the eprom and reflash it. Alpine's scenario: get a used immobilizer which is in the unarmed/unlocked state so the immobilizer can be programmed to pair with any keys. Both cases make sense to me. What am I missing?

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Ah the voice of reasoning. CBR was saying you had to get a new alarm immobilizer no matter what. What I was saying was that you didn't need to get a new alarm unit. Obviously the key word here is IF the used alarm was unarmed, then all should be good to go for the reprogram. Still like to hear info on how CBR does it so other peeps on here maybe able to benefit from it in the future. If he's saying he's not making money off it like he says, he should post free knowledge for the members here. Technically though there is still away around this but I won't go into it. I'll just post a pic of the info I had when I had mine done.

aahhh you Americans are ganging up on me. I should have left OP to it! its is the remarks on here that stop me contributing and helping people. I get accused of drumming up trade for my business when I never once suggested I run a business? I get told my findings are BS ! when I actually went through in 2010 what OP is going through some what six years later ? LOCKED CAR NO KEYS= NEW ALARM MODULE I get told by certain individuals on this forum that what I say is not true ?? hmmm ANY WAY SOLD MY WATER COOLED 996C4 AND 996 TURBO S for air cooled 993 turbo and 964 cab why I am trying to help 996 owners so help me God. Hopefully the original OP is happy with the advise I gave him and he gets his car sorted lol

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THANK YOU VOICE OF REASON we have a winner. you and only you took the time to read and come to the conclusion that the OP issue is what I am advising on LOCKED CAR NO KEYS = NEW ALARM MODULE why certain individuals alpine cannot read this or understand this drives me mad ? did he get his super status 7000 post by TROLLING!

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LOCKED CAR NO KEYS = GET USED ALARM MODULE, NEW KEY HEAD/PILL, KEY CUT BY DEALER OR INDEPENDENT, PROGRAMMING BY SOMEONE COMPETENT. I can see that you can't comprehend this even though I did it. Oh well... Plus where is the info on your modding process?

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awww dear hmmm no matter how much you explain to some one they just do not get it. LOCKED CAR = ALARM ACTIVATED AUTOMATICALLY WHICH IN TURN = NO COMMUNICATION WITH ANY UNRECOGNISED KEYS=NEW ALARM MODULE NEEDED I think I need to draw pictures used alarm module is no good cannot be used when car is locked ! as alarm will be activated also getting a pill will not be recognised in the car ignition hence alarm will not communicate to hostile unrecognised keys that cannot complete the handshake process. this is getting amusing now

We'll agree to disagree. For anyone that wants to buy a new alarm module, assuming you still can, be my guest. If you want to keep your existing but have CBR hack it for you, have at it. If the latter case is true, it sure be nice if he would let everyone know how to do it, even though I asked him three times and he claims he doesn't do it for business.

I will even go far as saying a used alarm module will not have the used key that was married to that alarm module also the used alarm module will not have the used ECU that was married to the alarm module. So getting a used alarm module plugging that into a unlocked car that was never alarmed to begin with also have the issue that the alarm module cannot open communications because for an alarm module to talk to Porsche PIWIS the alarm module has to be married to the ECU. The alarm module can only marry an ECU once. you cannot remarry alarm modules to different ECU's because even the work shop manual states when you get a Virgin module you have to marry it to ECU. If during the marrying process you get some input digits wrong then that is tough the result will be you cannot marry the ECU hence that Virgin module now is junk and you have to by another blank virgin module. What I did was I bought a virgin module and removed the Eprom chip read the codes and saved it as image file on my pc. when I get a used module I remove the Eprom from that also read that and saved a copy on PC then deleted all data on that eprom chip and added the Virgin data. which makes a used alarm module which was scrap now into a virgin module. I also by studying the image found which lines contain the transponder codes and which lines contained the remote frequency codes. this enables me modify information for my purposes. TO MARRY the alarm module to ECU the original alarm module has to be blank and a used alarm module will not be blank. you cannot with a piwis delete data on eprom chips piwis will not allow it. you have to think out of the box . I know this if a alarm module and ECU and key head are not all on the same page then conflict will happen and the modules will not allow communications to each other with piwis and hence dealer stuff like programming keys cannot happen.

Problem could be you used a PIWIS and if you did, was it a genuine or copy? When I got mine done, a PST2 was used so that might've made the difference. I had no issues pairing a used immobilizer to my existing ecu. There were no issues programming new keyhead/pill to used immobilizer. I should state that this was on a mk1 car. That could also be a very important distinction.

It's obvious both points are trying to be helpful, so help each other by working the solution together.

Alpine, when your tech reprogrammed the used immobilizer, is it possible he actually reprogrammed the DME to accept the used immobilizer? This thread seems to support what CBR said about immobilizer can only be programmed once. http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...eprom-deleted/ CBR, it's also a fact the Alpne was able to install a used immobilizer and got everything working. How to explain that? Maybe mkI vs mkII and different Porsche testers used?

Whooooosh!! I just finished reading this thread and frankly have never been so exhausted in my life. hahaha! Can we all just have a group hug or something??? Seriously, I've owned several cars like my Porsche with transmitters linked to alarm systems/immobilizers and can't understand why this is such a big challenge to at least get his darn hood open and make him some silly key replacements at the dealer. I thought the weirdest was my BMW... We only had the one key and I didn't want to go on any long trips with the family with just one key fob and so I went to the BMW dealer to purchase another one. They refused without the actual GA title. He was super nice, but I said, "the actual car is sitting outside" and he said, "sorry, those are BMW rules." He said we don't need your car, just the title, I.D. and VIN #, once we confirm your ownership, BMW will ship a new key FOB from Germany programmed and ready for use. He went on to say, that if I wanted to reprogram the keys, the car would be needed and there will be a charge for the service. I decided to purchase two new keys at the tune of about $300 each. They came in about the same week and work perfectly. For my Porsche 996, I have two keys and both of them have worked flawlessly with the exception of one of the batteries died and I quickly replaced it with another and it worked, but the whole trunk thing is really strange issue. Makes me want to go to AutoZone and have them check my car's main battery. hahaha Cheers and let's hope the Hammerthrow finds a solution.

My shop is registered with NASTF as a security professional as such we have access to keys and security programming for Porsche cars. It also gives us access to all other makes in the US. NASTF is the licensing mechanism for independent shops in the US. CBR 786 is right If you lose both Keys and the system is armed, you are buying a new alarm module. You cannot use a used module as the vin and passcode is written into the old module and cannot be changed. If you use a used module you need the keys and engine DME that are matched as a set, but this creates other problems because you will have a vin mismatch with other modules in the car. I applaud CBR 786 for his ingenuity in hacking the security module. His fix will work in that he has the virgin code for a non programmed module he can drop in a used one. In short make sure you have duplicate keys

deleted message

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PM Sent

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It doesn't matter to me if someone even has a nuclear thermodynamics phd, but unless you personally programmed one of these in this situation, everything else is just theory and static to me, just like a lot of the threads here. There's no ingenuity here if you've been in the game long enough. The same guy that made me keys and reprogrammed my BMW can do the same for the Porsche (pick lock, get right cylinder combo, cut key, reprogram that keyhead/pill onto your EXISTING immobilizer, all from his small smart car at a remote location of your choice aka driveway, parking lot, etc). He's been doing this for years and has a legit business for close to 20 years now. Ahsai, I will reach out to get the specifics from the horses mouth and report back. I know what I did and it worked. I just may not remember all the specifics which I'll try to get from the horses mouth(my tech guy).

Its all well and good that your guy was able to program your existing security module to accept the key, but in my experience without a programmed key and with the alarm set I have not been able to program a new key. Also I don't think you will find many dealerships that will be able to do it without replacement of the module.

Ok, I got a pretty quick response from my guy. He did verify that the only way to recover an armed ecu is by soldering in a new eprom, which has already been stated here with no debate. For me in my situation with using a used alarm box(in an unarmed state obviously), he was able to change the DME info to the vin and codes from the vin in the alarm ecu. He then reprogrammed the DME to match the alarm ecu and then programmed the key. He also mentioned if the alarm ecu is the only thing damaged due to flooding and such, he could swap over just the eprom to the new used alarm module so that all your existing keys would work and would be basically plug and play without any further reprogramming. So bottom line: - You can't program used immobilizer that has been left in an active alarm state unless you swap eproms - You can program used immobilizer that hasn't been left in armed state but you have to program the DME as well

And now we have two cats, both without skin..... I learned a lot from that debate. Bravo to all participants.

Mystery solved indeed!

That is where the problem lies. There is no dealer in the country that will program a used module and no dealer is swapping eproms. Same is also true of independents. The original poster is going to have to purchase a new module. As far as opening the trunk that is way above my level of expertise.

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You mean in his country of HK?

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I've put this summary in our FAQ doc here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?pref=2&pli=1 Just search for "key". Hope it will help others in the future.

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Are you planning on coming up with a book too.

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This is much better than a book, don't you think? Much more entertaining and rich in technical contents at the same time

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And most importantly, no wait time.

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Alpine, with all due respect man, you should eat crow and admit to CBR he was right. He may not use perfect grammar, but the message was pretty clear man. Frankly, I learned alot from this thread and appreciate your input, but he was spot on right dude originally. Rock on!

They are both correct in my mind. They were arguing about two different scenarios unknowingly as summarized by Alpine. "- You can't program used immobilizer that has been left in an active alarm state unless you swap eproms - You can program used immobilizer that hasn't been left in armed state but you have to program the DME as well"

Personally, I thought CBR was on the defense from the beginning when Alpine called him out as BS, but maybe they should just both hug and sing the Barney song.

"maybe they should just both hug and sing the Barney song." That's an image and soundtrack that I can certainly do without...

My car is still stuck at the dealer/service center. Yes it is a real dealer, listed on Porsches official dealer list. Yes, they are utterly incompetent. This is why my friends couldn't understand why I was so upset to lose the key. Because incompentence is the norm in this country. I knew right when I lost the key that it was going to cost me thousands if not more to fix it. I knew the dealer would be incompetent based in experiences with both of my other cars. Carless for almost two months now. Dealer is not ready to admit they dont know what they are doing. BTW: anyone who is living in a country with no official dealer, or only incompetent dealers, one Porsche ECU specialist in the US can do your keys if you send them the keys, alarm module and ECU. They can also just eliminate the alarm module via physically modifying the ECU. I was quoted $175 for this. I'm not sure that I am allowed to mention the company's name as it may appear as an advertisement, but Google is your friend. This will be my final option, aside from filing a lawsuit against Porsche in this country.

Yo Hammer time, Did the Porsche elite fix your car's key/ immobilizer situation yet? ... or are they still rappin' your favorite song "You can't touch this!"

They finally ordered a new immobilizer unit from Germany. Like everything in this country, the part cost double the list price.

Glad to hear there is a little light at the end of the long and painful tunnel. The only thing worse would be to finding the original lost key stuck down in your couch or something.

I have so far spent $3200 in various costs associated with losing my solitary car key. I hope that this thread acts as a teaching moment to anyone else who has one key. When finished I will have been without the car for nearly 3 months.

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It's Hammerthrow Time throwin' down some... "Nice Nice Baby"!!!! Stop! Collaborate and listen Hammer is back with my brand new renndition Something grabbed a hold of my key so tightly Looked for da thing daily and nightly Did ya ever stop? No! But dis I know... Hook up a good battery and it will glow To the extreme I stole my car like a vandal Tow scratch'd the lot, owner flew off the handle. Porsche, with baristas that boom Killin' my brain like a poisonous mushroom Deadly, when they play a diagnostic melody They say "Anything less than our best is a felony... Love it or leave it, you better gain way!" "You better fix my ride or dis kid won't pay!" Service manager is like... Be nice nice Baby... Nice nice Baby! Several weeks go by, mechanics are jumping Car wouldn't start, the baristas start pumpin' Quick to the point, to the point, no fakin' Servin' more drinks to keep the money rakin' Provin', they ain't so quick and nimble Feelin' crazy afta drinkn' a Shirley Temple And her funky dance with a souped up tempo I'm on a roll, time to go solo Still, they're working' on my 3.6 Why can't the gold and platinums find the right fix? More girlies on standby, trying' to get me high Did you ever stop? No! I admit, I like high! They're scratchin' their heads, my headache wouldn't stop I bounced dat place, heading back to da home flock Wifey was like "Yo, do you know?!!" and I say... "No! car was NO go" ((she like...what!!!!))) I said, "Hunni... Be nice nice Baby, nice nice Baby!" Take heed, 'cause Hammer is a lyrical poet Porsche still at the scene just in case you didn't know it Rennlist, that created all the bearing fuss Hurry up lil' boy or you'll miss the bus! Resident experts say IMS failure is real replace with LN or you'll swallow a major pill! Engine in da back, what a hell of a concept Dr. P sold the hype, you want to step in this? Butzi, his life will never fade, sliced like a Ginsu, sharper than any razor blade! So fast, others say, "Shazam!!!" If 911 was a drug, they'd sell it by the gram Phone begins to ring, keeping my composure, $3200 bill hurts worse nuclear exposure Hell boyz, there are worse things in the world, so let's get loose Magnetized by 996's power when I give it sum juice! It's nice nice baby!!! It's so nice nice baby!!!! cheers!!!!

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That is nuts. You could've flown a guy out from Europe and had him make and program you new keys for half that with maybe a weeks wait. Oh well, glad there is some progress at least.

b3freak, I am nominating you for a Grammy for that Rap!

Glad you liked it! Hahahaha

For anyone curious, my car is still at the dealer 3 months later. They ordered a new album module, but I have little faith that they will be able to program it without screwing it up. If they can't get it fixed but this week, I will remove the ECU, alarm module, and send them along with the two keys to the US to have the alarm manually disabled (as on a race car).

At least you are not paying a storage/parking fee, are you?

Yo Hammer, Dude, I thought they sorted things out and got you back up and running. This beyond a train wreck... more like being stuck in purgatory and forced to watch chick flicks (e.g. The Notebook) over and over for all eternity. You should comment of the most current thread that is identical to your situation. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-dead-too.html

Because I am located in the Asian version of the Wild West, the dealer here only orders parts from Germany once a month. This each time a new part is needed, another month is required. My threats of a lawsuit did however result in my getting a new 911 to drive around on loan, so well, I no longer really care how long they take! And no, I don't have to pay storage at the dealer, thankfully.

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Awesome! That's the right attitude to have... think about it, lots of people would pay $300 - $500 for a few laps in a 911 and you're getting to drive one continuously on Porsche's dime. Enjoy it!

My cars been at the dealership for a month now getting a few repairs done, I should have asked for another 911 to borrow! Sucks to hear about your car but hopefully they get it sorted! In the meantime enjoy the new 911

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Yo Hammer it's Hammer-Time again. Updates on your situation?

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Still no car.

??

This thread blows my mind... good luck to tHe OP getting things sorted, and enjoy driving the nuts off that 991 loaner!