3rd replacement RMS and IMS Seals - 2003 C4S

Well......my warranty runs out a month ago and the dreaded Rear Main Seal /Intermediate Shaft Seal leak occurs again at 74,000 miles........happened previously at 60k and 68k called Porsche North america and sent them 26 pages of service records on the car......they came through and paid for the labor and parts 100% for replacement the IMS seal......the upgraded RMS that was in there was okay, but I am paying for a new RMS seal to secure a 2 year warranty....warranty not available on out of warranty car unless I spend something as an owner expensed item related to a repair like this...... no additional warranty on free work on out of warranty car....funky rule... The dealer recommended that I replace the bearing on the Intermediate Shaft, which is sold together with the IMShaft.....and can't be bought separately....they will use the new bearing on the old shaft and we hope that fixes the issues once and for all.....I will have a new shaft for an expensive paperweight.........anyone else have a similar experience with the IMShaft bearing replacement, etc....?? The dealer feels that replacing the bearing will be preventative in having a potential IMShaft failure that would be critical and would cost $ 5k in repairs versus paying $ 700 for the preventative repair now... any opinions on this course of action???

Good for you that Porsche stepped up to the plate and warrantied the RMS replacement. Kudos to Porsche, too! So you paid for the new RMS seal, but Porsche covered the labor? If that the case, it was worth it to get the 2 year warranty. What is the cost of the RMS part, about $90? I am not sure about the $700 for the IS situation. The bearing replacement is probably a good idea, because this is a weak link in the car. If it can and probably will reduce the chances of having an IS problem, then it might be worth it. Would that repair/replacement also get you a 2 year warranty if you have a catastrophic IS failure? If so, and the IS were to fail and take out the engine, would be engine be covered? I am guessing the engine replacement would not be covered, but it might not hurt to ask the service manager these questions before proceeding with the bearing replacement. Just make sure you understand EXACTLY what the 2 year warranty (if there is one) would cover in terms of parts and labor. Even if there is no warranty associated with the IS bearing replacement, you are better off knowing that up front. It doesn't sound like that (not getting a warranty associated with the bearing replacement) would stop you from replacing the bearing, because as you stated, you are considering this to the a preventative measure. Let us know what you decide to do.

I think that anything that you repair and pay out of warranty, has a 2 year warranty by porsche. I had my RMS and clutch serviced and the RMS was leaking again. The RMS was repaired free of charge. Including labor. -joel

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Was that from a dealership? or an indy?

Good for you. Mine have both been replaced twice with the last one being this past December just before the CPO expired. I fully expect this to happen again in another 10-15k miles. I hope they will Porsche will pay for what is clearly a repeatedly defective issue with my car.

Deckman, (OT) did you put big red (turbo) brakes on your car or just paint the calipers? Looks like turbo rotors from he pic.

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I wouldn't count on Porsche replacing it in 10K miles, though I wish they would. As the OP stated "no additional warranty on free work on out of warranty car..." is the usual stance for Porsche. I don't agree with it, but I am saying, don't expect it to happen if you get another RMS failure.

Yes, from the Collection Porsche in coral gables, miami, fl. I guess that, if the RMS get replaced during a warranty, doesn't carry the 2 year protection, but if you pay the full amount for the repair (parts and labor) outside or inside any warranty, they will cover that for 2 years. My clutch is covered for 2 years, free mileage, free loaner. -joel

Thanks for the responses. What will be covered by Jim Ellis in Atlanta in the future by the 2 year warranty after warranty program on repairs is the leaking issue, IF attributed to the seals, not the shaft bearing because that was done outside of the claim with Porsche NA, who would not cover that portion or extend a warranty on that portion of the repair when I doublechecked......all said I got $1300 worth of work covered out of warranty - 2 months, paid $ 800 for a new IMshaft bearing (for the old shaft) and a fancy new IMshaft paperweight, and a 2 year out of warranty coverage on any future leaks attributed to the seals, which means I will have to contact Porsche again with the same case number and get an authorization for a teardown gambling that the seals are the issue when it happens again...........time for a new car when that happens.....I'll probably close to 100 k in miles then, let's hope....and I may keep the car for the track and then really blow through some seals at a faster rate....car only worth 27 K on trade-in now and 35k if sold outright with the 74k miles, so I should probably keep it, lighten it up and go to the track more often......

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I painted them. A little cheap bling

i have had mine done RMS 6 times and IMS 3 Time (With the RMS).... wont be suprised if i'm due for another one... have not had one done in 8 months.. thank god for CPO...

Holy crap, that has to be some kind of record! If it was mine I'd have to sell it.

replacing the shaft is a big job as they must remove and crack open your engine.... can you tell us if your bearing was a one or two type bearing? i.e. one bearing surface or two bearing surface? in any case replacing the bearing to something updated and new is a great idea... but I'm curious as to which one you had... some fail more than others...

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how did you know it was bad? thats scary

I'll check out what type of bearing and all other upgraded parts, i.e. seals - which was done before........only the bearing is being. replaced because it is a simpler job than replacement of the whole shaft and I have to pay for that part of it as preventive maintenance that was suggested by the tech which is not covered by Porsche. The bearing seems to be a big weakness with these engines, so the tech said replace it so I have a better chance of not having issues again (lots of confidence...huh).....I know there is an upgrade from LN engineering for the shaft and the bearing for about the same price, but was not going to replace the shaft and make it a bigger bill at this point......time to fix the car and sell it....

MKII has a differant set up than the MKI's I dont think the bearing can be changed from the flywheel side on an MKI's

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1 RMS was done before i bought the car... One was done while it was in for 72KM Service... and the other times was done because my Indy Told/Showed me the Leak... It does not Bother me... I think its my Driving Habit...

Advised today that the IMshaft and bearing (sold as single part) has been upgraded by Porsche and bearing on the new shaft part also sold as one part will not fit on old shaft in car......which was the plan for preventive maintenance to stop the IMS and RMS seal leaks........so idea to replace bearing only for prevention is down the drain.....dealer now going to see if they can get the whole job covered due to this new part scenario prohibiting the bearing replacement or maybe will have to just replace the seals and leave the original shaft and bearing in the car and cross my fingers that I don' t get another leak out of warranty.......we'll see.......

That is too bad. However, it sounds like your dealer is really trying to help you out with this issue. If your dealership can somehow indicate that the current bearing is showing some wear and has some "play" in it which could result in an IMS failure, maybe Porsche will help. Please keep us posted on the outcome of this. Good luck.

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i thought the bearing that ln sells fits the mk1? anyone have any idea how much the labor would cost to replace the bearing?

My RMS leaked for a 3rd time and my engine was replaced free of charge 6 weeks ago. Thank God for my CPO warranty! Car is a 2002 C2 with 50k miles. My understanding is Porsche will cover a new engine if you have 3 confirmed RMS leaks. If you are out of warranty they have occasionally taken pity on people and covered it- but are under no obligation to do so.

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wow good for you... well if mine leaks again for the 7th time, i will have Similar Demands...

Jim Ellis Atlanta Dealer did try really real hard to assist....final options: 1) Replace the IMS seal and pay for RMS seal. Dealer pays for everything else via Porsche. Car out of warranty 3 months, so Porsche NA and dealer did something - about $ 1,000 in repairs. 2 year warranty on the RMS and IMS seals, since I paid something for leak repair per their rules. Case specs were good. no major engine disassembly a plus...at least most of the bolts still twisted in by German factory..... 2) Buy aftermarket heavy duty bearing, no warranty and slip on to the existing IM Shaft, no major teardown. 3) Replace IMshaft with new upgraded Porsche IM shaft and bearing and receive 50 % off labor and 2 year warranty on lower end of engine and bascially resealed motor.....bill to be around $ 2,000 in total and take preventative risk of no more failures. have to do major engine teardown, good confidence in techs, but you never know......maybe other issues later...car runs great now..... decision - # 1 ......75,000 mile car, 6 years old, worth 30 on trade max, low 40's retail.......take risk IMS original bearing holds up...........I will keep as my second 911 and daily driver, have 993 - 1995 cab with 37k miles in great shape..........wife said buy a new car to put a better smile on my face....maybe Maserati 4 door, Bentley or Aston 2 door....Panamera too ugly in and out for me......

That is a good decision, especially given the wife's comment. Pass on the Maseratti... high maintenance costs. Bentley why???? Aston... nice looking but disappointing performance. Now go out and start looking for a well equipped 997 or order a 2009 997. Remember..... there is no substitute!

I would take your wifes advice and get a used 997 gt3....

Thanks for the feedback on new car possibilities........the Bentley would be the GTC, which is a nice cruising car, I would keep the 993.......kind of agree on Astons as they do not perform as well as Porsches, but they look sweet......the Maserati, either car 2 or 4 door, does have the expense issues and the hard gear changing with their automatic up to 2008, which they addressed with 2009 car.............main thing is wife is in agreement to buy a new car.........wish I like the Panamera, but better off getting Cayenne, if I am going 4 door route............that car looks ugly to me, especially the interior......I can live with the Pacer looking rear end.....

After I had my RMS replaced, Porsche took my car back and bought me a Honda! Damn the fine print in the warranty!

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Sounds about right Deckman. Three leaks in 16,000 miles though sounds like something you could press the dealer to do more for.

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I ended up selling the Pcar due to lack of confidence in future reliability........and while it was fixed and looked pretty good.... Benz dealer gave me retail book on the trade, which was about 8k higher than trade-in. Had close to 80K miles on the 4S. Porsche dealer(s) would only give me current trade-in value... I also bought new car 12k under blue book.........went with 2005 warrantied SL65 AMG..V12, 604 horses, 738 foot pounds and the handling is good enough.......car looks great.....28,000 miles on it........kept 993 for the Porsche fix.......the ends my IMS/RMS saga..........hopefully Benz won't have any real design issues..........

a few more photos...

Engine's in the wrong spot.

And you appear to have two of them smooshed together....

Sweet ride! Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the M96 platform. I'm on my 3rd leaky R.M.S. on my 01 986 S. I'm just going to let it leak and check the oil weekly. Tired of replacing crap on this car just cause Porsche doesn't know how make proper fixes for their mistakes.

If I were you, and my engine was apart like yours, I'd do the IMSU upgrade to the IMS (more bearing surface and locks the sprockets on the shaft). Check out this thread. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...placement.html

Estimated bill = $ 2,000 for bearing replacement IMS seal and IMS shaft and RMSeal and all labor........that was my option per two dealers in Atlanta. In my case I had the dealer put it back together no bearing or new shaft, new IMS and RMS seals and really hope new owner has better luck than I did...2 years warranty on seals.................dealer was honest and said the leaks would probably persist......bearing upgrade no guarantee to stop issue over time............bad design....not my words......