35 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHNitrogen Filled Tires?
Leading reported evidence
Fill tires
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
So the latest gimmick from the dealer is $40 for nitrogen filled tires.
edit: btw I ran my tires before on compressed air 4 psi less front/rear for better traction but the way the dealership filled the tires with nitrogen at 4 over, I seem to have a way more comfortable ride than before.....but haven't tested the traction on any twisties yet.
Leading evidence: 'Fill tires' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'gold-mine' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust pressure in tires' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
As it took us car enthusiasts 2 pages to find out that nitrogen filled tires are snake oil, then it's most probably a gold-mine for the industry as Joe Doe will never find out!
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I read somewhere that what is done is that the tire is deflated and filled with N2, then deflated and refilled a total of around 4 cycles.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Air from a Scuba tank is very dry and a heck of a lot cheaper than $40 to have your tires filled with Nitrogen.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
edit: btw I ran my tires before on compressed air 4 psi less front/rear for better traction but the way the dealership filled the tires with nitrogen at 4 over, I seem to have a way more comfortable ride than before.....but haven't tested the traction on any twisties yet.
edit: btw I ran my tires before on compressed air 4 psi less front/rear for better traction but the way the dealership filled the tires with nitrogen at 4 over, I seem to have a way more comfortable ride than before.....but haven't tested the traction on any twisties yet.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
As it took us car enthusiasts 2 pages to find out that nitrogen filled tires are snake oil, then it's most probably a gold-mine for the industry as Joe Doe will never find out!
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Only weird thing was they filled the tires 4 psi over the tire recommendation via Porsche instructions for nitrogen filled tires...does that make since?
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
My local radio station, tv news program and an email from Rusnak Porsche where I bought the car, said nitrogen was the way to go...plus it was free fill ups until the 14th of July.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Unless the tire is somehow purged of the residual air either by applying a vacuum (not done) or bleeding out the air while filling with nitrogen charge (not possible with tires) then even this aspect is suspect.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
edit: btw I ran my tires before on compressed air 4 psi less front/rear for better traction but the way the dealership filled the tires with nitrogen at 4 over, I seem to have a way more comfortable ride than before.....but haven't tested the traction on any twisties yet.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
gold-mine
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Identified cause
1
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
As it took us car enthusiasts 2 pages to find out that nitrogen filled tires are snake oil, then it's most probably a gold-mine for the industry as Joe Doe will never find out!
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
35 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T161109Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
So the latest gimmick from the dealer is $40 for nitrogen filled tires. I know COSTCO and pep boys has been doing this for a while. Wanted to get your thoughts on this.
I wrote a technical letter to Excellence magazine about this a few months ago after reading Johannes von Overbeek's article comparing the Flying Lizard race GT3 RSR vs a street GT3 RS.
In the article, he was complaining about the street car's handling went way off because the hot tire pressure went up like ~10psi because of all the moisture in the air in the tires.
Nitrogen doesn't have this problem which is why most (all?) race teams use it.
There's probably some chemists here, but nitrogen also apparently has larger molecules that means you don't need to add air every couple months.
Anyway, Excellence published my letter and recommends nitrogen for those reasons.....
My local radio station, tv news program and an email from Rusnak Porsche where I bought the car, said nitrogen was the way to go...plus it was free fill ups until the 14th of July. I like things that are free, work well, and apparently this does
Only weird thing was they filled the tires 4 psi over the tire recommendation via Porsche instructions for nitrogen filled tires...does that make since?
edit: btw I ran my tires before on compressed air 4 psi less front/rear for better traction but the way the dealership filled the tires with nitrogen at 4 over, I seem to have a way more comfortable ride than before.....but haven't tested the traction on any twisties yet.
Apparently it's true that N2 molecules (78% of air) are larger and permeate through tire walls slower than O2 (21% of air). Also expansion and contraction differences of dry N2 vs. dry air are negligible. The benefit of filling tires with N2 is that it is dry whereas compressed air usually contains moisture.
I found this and much more on this site promoting N2 use for tires.
http://www.getnitrogen.org/deepscience/
For the average road driver, it seems a little bit of a sales job to me. You know, a little bit a science mixed in with a bunch of marketing. I note that they don't really mention that while the inside of the tire is "protected" from corrosion and oxidation, the outside of the tire is still exposed to the same 21% O2 air, moisture, and road hazards. Nor do the "savings" seem to factor in the cost and hassle of N2 fills.
Here's my thing, my wife is a chemist so we are hotly debating this topic. If you look at the periodic table Nitrogen and Oxygen are right next to each other. In fact Nitrogen is apparently smaller than oxygen (at least by weight). Coupled with the fact that air is close to 88% nitrogen anyway. At this point I agree with meister. I think that the real benefit comes from filling the tires with filtered, dry gas.
I believe that was the same conclusion that came from the last discussion about it. There is just too much moisture coming from the air compressors. Small dryers don't do much.
The atomic radii of individual atoms and the bond lengths are very similar for diatomic nitrogen and oxygen. The technique used to measure or calculate the radius of the molecule impacts the results, but in general:
N: radius 65-75pm, bond length 110pm
O: radius 60-73pm, bond length 120pm
As others said, these differences are neglible and the real benefit is a dry gas source.
I use nitrogen in my MPSC tires on the track and solo 1; where I typically see a 6 to 8 PSI gain. I haven't noticed any difference between air or nitrogen. Dry air from the compressor at home works just fine.
Setting aside the debate over whether to use air or nitrogen, you should ask your dealer how much they pay for enough N to fill up your tires. I always have it around for race tires and the air jacks on the cup car. I think I pay about $20 a tank. I'd guess they are charging you $40 for $2 worth of nitrogen.
FWIW, I don't use it in my street cars.
Jim
It's not Nitrogen or Oxygen that's a problem with tires. It's the Water Vapor (H2O) that's the problem.
Use dry air and you don't get the higher rate of expansion or heat that will cause tire failure or other tire
overheating problems. Of course under most street conditions regular air isn't a problem, so for the
average driver, it's useless, but then so is a 400 hp car....
If the consensus is "low moisture content" is the only real benefit to nitrogen, I'll add the following point:
Unless the tire is somehow purged of the residual air either by applying a vacuum (not done) or bleeding out the air while filling with nitrogen charge (not possible with tires) then even this aspect is suspect.
While I can see the money's no object race teams wanting this potential advantage, for the daily driver: snake oil!
I read somewhere that what is done is that the tire is deflated and filled with N2, then deflated and refilled a total of around 4 cycles. I think you are correct that it is impractical to eliminate all traces of O2 or H2O.
If you deflate a tire to remove all traces of air won't you collapse the bead on the tire and wind up introducing air into the interior of the tire again anyway? Snake oil is right.
As it took us car enthusiasts 2 pages to find out that nitrogen filled tires are snake oil, then it's most probably a gold-mine for the industry as Joe Doe will never find out!
I think it's complete nonsense too. Air from a Scuba tank is very dry and a heck of a lot cheaper than $40 to have your tires filled with Nitrogen. This is nothing more than tire companies taking advantage of consumers. We hear about these things on the race track and assume it MUST be better if they're doing it....
+1 for the comment about the track...we do not change our tires several times a day or rebuild our engines every so many miles (at least not intentionally)...there are just so many differences between what race teams do vs. us mortals that to use what they do as an argument is ridiculous.
It's called dilution. 4 cycles or so works for me.
No, you can pull quite a bit of vacuum on a track tire and not unseat the bead. But I use the rinse method anyway.
Scuba tanks aren't as cheap as N2 bottles, and it's a lot more convenient to find N2 (welding shops) than air. The $40 charge is outrageous, but N2 is normally pretty cheap. A buddy of mine uses air out of a Scott air pack, but he gets his air free. (firefighter)
I use a 78/22 nitrogen/oxygen blend in my tires which seems to work great! I have a special tank of the blend that I keep in the garage just for keeping the tires topped off. I highly recommend it.
For freshness, I throw in 0.9 percent Argon, and 0.03 carbon dioxide for flavor, and and trace amounts of hydrogen, ozone, methane, carbon monoxide, helium, neon, krypton, and xenon as garnish.
