997 vs C6

I believe the 997 will be available before the end of August and the C6 should be available shortly thereafter. The base 997 is around $69K and the C6 around $44K. It'll be interesting to see how these cars compare from a performance perspective. I was really impressed with the performance of the C5 but its interior was a little on the cheap side and the rear was kind of hard on my eyes. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity of seeing the " vastly improved" interior of the C6 at the auto shows. If it's half as good as they say, it will certainly be on my short list.

One of my associates has a new Z06 that I've played with; I've driven the C5 and Z06 on street, and have been in both on track. They are brutally fast in every venue, and I'm sure the C6 and its Z06 version will be even better. But they are not particularly precise or involving. They feel big and the steering is numb at the limit. Build quality is even more suspect than porsches. It sounds elitist, but the difference b/t a Pcar and a car like the Z06 is akin to Kobe beef filet mignon and a Big Mac. Both will fill you up, and some people cannot tell the difference (heck, some will actually *prefer* a big mac). For those who can tell the difference, place value the difference, and who have the means, the Pcar will be there waiting. It seems that since you are quoting prices, you are primarily interested in bang for the buck. If indeed you are looking for value, don't bother even considering a Porsche. Oh hell, don't bother with even a BMW, Lotus, Audi, etc, or even the widely considered bargain basement Sti's and Evos. Buy the Chevy. It beats all comers in the bang for buck category w/o question. Given the current prices of Z06s, I've toyed with picking one up just to beat on at the track. But at the end of the day, they don't light my fire. IMHO, a Porsche is: 1. One part a "positional good." 2. One part performance. 3. One part mystic. 4. One part driving experience (grins/mile).

Interesting comments, frayed. I tend to agree....I went from a 2002 Turbo Tiptronic to a 2004 Z06 and then to a 40th Anniversary 911 within the space of about 7 months.

I also agree... as much as people love to compare both cars (i've driven both) they really don't "feel" the same. The Porsche feels more like a precision instrument and the vette more like a train without rails.

Why?? I'm clawing my way up the P-car ladder to one day own a Turbo . Why move to a 40th Ann or ..... a Vett (they have got to do something with that a$$ in the air look)??? I could understand if you still owned the TT but your sig says previous - nice list by the way. I have owned or lusted after each and every one of those cars.

I would have figured out a way to have kept the Turbo if it was a 6 speed but I needed some cash at the time to buy a house (I had another house that was up for sale but not sold yet) so I traded down to the Vette. The car was very fast and loud which I liked but I never really felt comfortable driving it. The active handling system was way too intrusive and the rear end felt twitchy to me on cornering. So, I traded the Vette and a Volvo XC90 for the 40th Anniversary 911. I couldn't afford a Turbo and the 40th package is pretty much equal to the performance of my Tip Turbo.

I have fun with 2 Z06's around here. My SC 996 beats them on cornering (unless they put a few dead body for weight in the trunk) and from a dead stop, the vet has me for the first 60 feet and then spends the rest of the time admiring the back end of my car. The only reason I am beat off the line is that I NEVER break the wheels. You are right with the price though. For the money, the vet would be fun, but I can't imagine going from a Porsche to a vett.

Damn dude. You are well traveled.

After spending most of performance driving time in Vettes, and for the last few years in Z06's, I will tell you that the Z is one scary fast beast and will generally blow the doors off of most cars, and any 996 in a straight line (non-SC...i guess?). But I can also tell you first hand since switching to my C4S, that I will NEVER go back! The Porsche is SO MUCH more refined, and has much more class. The C6 is not an evolution, just a bit more C5. The C6 Z06 is not scheduled till 2006, and if you are smart you would wait till 2007 for the 1st year bugs to be worked out before even considering (but it is rumored to have 500hp)....but once again, my personal experience is that the Porsche is more "all-around-car", and my C4Sseems to be the all-weather super car that I have been looking for for a long time, and I plan to keep it for a awhile, and drive it every day (in between my company car). For the first time in a long while I actually am looking forward to rain!

The biggest thing I miss with the 996 versus a Vett or any other high horsepower small block, is the feel of the engine and drivetrain. With the V8's you feel and hear the power, but the Porsche just hums along without you even knowing the speed you are reaching until you look at the guages. I love driving my buddy's Z06 and it "feels" like it has more power than my 996 when in reality it is an illusion. Don't get me wrong...the Z06 is a fast car, but I sure wouldn't want to do any road racing at high speeds with it without weighting down the back end with a few hundred pounds. Maybe Chevy will smarten up and move the engine to mid range in the future. That by itself would add tremendously to its handling.

Have you ever driven (or ridden in) a Z06 on the track? In a properly aligned Z06, it is as rock solid as gilbrator. The rear end moves a little, but you soon learn to trust it. A monkey can turn a fast lap in the car. They are every bit a match for a TT on a road course, weigh significantly less, and have a wider track. However, at the end of some lapping, I'm left with the thought "so what?" At the end of the day, since we aren't out there road racing but just getting some hot laps in, it's all about fun. By comparison, my M3 is far more fun than the Chevy, and I reckon my Pcar will be even more engaging on track.

Yes. And now just about broke! I'm keeping the 40th at least until the warranty runs out.

Without question, the Porsche is by far the better status symbol. And to some buyers this is a very important part of the buying decision. Personally, I like to get the biggest bang for the buck, within reason. So, if GM has improved the build quality of the C6 and made it into the 'world car" that they claim, I certainly won't reject the car out of hand because it's not German.

Buy it. You won't be dissappointed. I drove one again today at lunch. If it lights your fire, consider yourself lucky. I sincerely wish Vettes did it for me, as I'd have extra jack to spend on my other bad habits.

I've driven both. The Z06 isn't a match for the 996, but it is a match for the tt. On a nearby track with which I have familiarty (Gingerman), I can keep ahead of a Z06 (me on street tires, him on race rubber), but can't break away. When I switched to the Z06, I could turn the same times I could in my X50. The tt has more front end push, the ZO6 has more rear end wiggle. Both are easy to drive fast. With that as a starting point, I'm guessing the C6 will be very strong. My problems were fitting in the car (I'm 6'1" at 196) and fit much better in the Porsche, and the tacky interior. The new interior is better, and bigger (I've read). My bet is that if the new Z06 came with a prancing horse on the front, people wopuld snap it up at 100K without complaint. Ever drive a 355 Ferrari? Now that interior is tacky. AS

vettes will always have suspect build quality and the all-to-pervasive 'guido' factor. whenever i pull up next to a vette and look at the guy driving it, a lot of time i say to myself: "THATS why i don't drive a vette." to be fair, the z06 is an awesome track weapon and as alex points out, a match for the tt. i've tracked other people's z06s and been on course many times at various venues with z06s and they are quick and very capable. the base c6 seems to be on par--performance-wise--with the outgoing c5 z06. one can then assume c6 z06 will be a monster.

I second that opinon. My brother oiwns a Z06 and I have put in some really fast times with it at Willow Springs. Faster than my 996 and on par with TT. I do agree with everyone here that the P car just feels right. More precise, better connected, and more comfortable. The Vette is an admirable car, and owning past Vettes C4 the new one has never been so close to a european car as it is now. I only hope the C6 is a step toward the right direction. The Vette is a great buy, but its just not a Porsche. If anyone buys one I would say you got one nice and fast car though.

It's amazing the hold that Porsche has on a lot of enthusiasts. I got a call from my local Porsche dealer this morning. He asked me to take a look at an '02 C4S with 25K miles for $65K. To be honest I was disappointed in the car's condition. Some of the wheels had curb rash, and the back of the car was dented. The interior looked okay but nothing special. Well despite the salesman encouraging me to make an offer, because the car won't last long, I declined. I just couldn't see myself paying anywhere near $65K for a car in such poor condition. When I got home I had a message from the dealer on my answering machine. They sold the car and they got asking price.

Didn't you already buy an M3?

Although I typically don't prefer vettes, I've driven C5's and C5 ZO6's on the track and ridden in one driven by a pro driver, I pretty much have to take back most of my criticisms of the vette after driving a C6 today. Braking was much improved over the C5 Handling was improved over the C5 Ride was improved. Power/Torque in the base C6 felt on par with the C5 ZO6 Interior was MUCH nicer than the C5 (although I'd still prefer a 3 spoke steering wheel). We drove C5, C5 ZO6 and C6's back to back to back on a challenging course and I came away very impressed with the C6, especially at $43K base price, 50K fully optioned with Z51 suspension, Nav, etc. As much as I wanted to be able to dismiss the C6, I can't after our testing today. For those basing their opinions on driving the C5 or C5 ZO6, you REALLY need to drive the C6 before you judge it, it is that much IMPROVED. I'd add it to my short list of cars to buy without question, along with the 997, Lotus and a few others. BTW, the new metallic orange color is pretty cool, reminded me of an old matchbox car I used to have.

Didn't you already buy an M3? No, not yet. If I buy an M3 it won't be until the '05 model is available, which I believe is in late October. Before I make my final decision, I want to see the C6 in person, and at least read some press reports since I doubt if I'll have the opportunithy of test driving a C6 this year.

Although I typically don't prefer vettes, I've driven C5's and C5 ZO6's on the track and ridden in one driven by a pro driver, I pretty much have to take back most of my criticisms of the vette after driving a C6 today. Where did you get to test drive the C6? I didn't think production models were available yet. Also, what did you think of the interior? Is it much improved as has been reported?

Ghost Rider must have test driven the C6 right after he "drove" the 997......

I've had 5 Corvettes. That 40 ft turning radius is a killer. It is the difference between a fun car and a monster. If you are just going to race it that is a different story. Drive both cars to see the difference.

C5 turning *radius* is actually only ~19 feet (vs. 17 feet on 996) and the *diameter* ~39 feet (vs. ~35 feet on 996). Still, I know what you mean. Partly a function of its long wheelbase.

One of the guys in our local PCA chapter is also some big-wig in Corvette circles so when a car came to town for some dealer event we got to tag along. Very fun, and good to have friends in the right places! One of the members of our group preferred that magnetic suspension, but I prefered the Z51 suspension package myself. I believe they told us the C6 was a couple of inches shorter than the C5 and an inch or so narrower but weighed 35lbs more. I don't know about the turning radius, but it didn't seem to present a problem in our tests. Like I said, at least test the car before dismissing it!

I thought I'd sign in on this one. I currently drive a 2000 Vette coupe with Z51 and will be making a decision in two to three years on the C6 Z06 vs. 997. My analysis so far: Z06 plusses are better track performance, availability of heads up display, availability of extended warranty backed by GM, no possibility of hail damage here in Minnesota, which is a consideration for a daily driver. Plusses for 997 are better quality of construction, better feel in non track driving (won't know until I drive one), competent dealer service, association with Porsche club, and some others I probably don't know about yet. If I did go for the 997 it would be the base model with few options, which would be in the $70K range.

SteveJ Why are corvettes immune to hail damage?

The body is plastic. Also immune to door dings except for paint touchup.

I am a very simple minded person. Porsche= GOOD Corvette= BAD. If you are not with me, then you are against me.

The body is plastic. Also immune to door dings except for paint touchup. But won't plastic crack. If someone hits the door hard enough, won't it crack. The last vette I owned was in '70. From a cosmetic point of view, the biggest problem I had with the vette is that paint didn't adhere well to the fiberglass. So I had many, many areas were the paint chipped off. Does paint adhere better to fiberglass with today's paint technology?

The body material is much improved over that used earlier. Paint adhesion is no problem in general, though they did have some issues with the carbon fiber hood optional on the 2004 Z06. I haven't had to worry about accident repair, but that does take a specialty shop experienced with Corvettes. Of course, I wouldn't take a Porsche to a garden variety body shop either.

Sly, I guess I was wrong, thought you bought an M3 when you already own a GT3. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...&highlight=c4s "beowoulf: I thought it would be interesting to see how some of the Porsche guys look down on us, just like some of the M3 guys look down on some other less expensive brands. Even though I own a GT3, I still identify more closely with M3 guys than the effete 911 guys. Most of the 911 guys I know are doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc who consider a rally a way to push their cars hard. On the other hand most of the M3 guys I know are more of the blue collar type who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty and know how to drive their cars the way they were designed."

Ouch! LOL

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Originally Posted by frayed Sly, I guess I was wrong, thought you bought an M3 when you already own a GT3. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/show...0&highlight=c4s "beowoulf: I thought it would be interesting to see how some of the Porsche guys look down on us, just like some of the M3 guys look down on some other less expensive brands. Even though I own a GT3, I still identify more closely with M3 guys than the effete 911 guys. Most of the 911 guys I know are doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc who consider a rally a way to push their cars hard. On the other hand most of the M3 guys I know are more of the blue collar type who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty and know how to drive their cars the way they were designed The key word in my referenced post is some Porsche owners are condescending... I didn't say all. Im a car enthusiast. I appreciate all performance cars and don't really care who builds them. Maybe I'm wrong but I do detect some elitism by some posters on this Board. To be fair I also detect the same attitude by some posters on BMW Boards. Some of the BMW posters look down on anything made in Japan. In another thread I asked how many owners of a P car would buy a Japanese car if it had precisely the same kind of performance as a 911 and was priced $20K less. IMHO there wouldn't be many. I would expect that brand recognition and prestige are just as important as performance in the minds of many P owners.

Well, I'm a lawyer, Porsche owner, and BMW owner; I wonder what that makes me? LOL.

Well, I'm a lawyer, Porsche owner, and BMW owner; I wonder what that makes me? LOL. I would imagine that the Porsche is your fun car and the BMW is your commuter. To answer your question, I'd say your are someone with a lot of disposeable income.

I can't think of anything more elitist than presuming to call someone an elitist. I don't care if you're blue collar, white collar, regular guy, fancy guy, doctor, lawyer, or Indian chief... The minute you feel comfortable making broad generalizations and boxing people into categories for something as ridiculously meaningless as their occupation or the car they drive, you're an elitist. And for the record, I think most BMW forums tend to display a LOT more prejudice than these Porsche boards as someone who owns neither a BMW (sold it) OR a Porsche (havent bought one yet). So much for the "blue collar" M3 crowd being kind and gentle. And since when is the M3 a "blue collar" chariot anyhow???? I always thought of something like the Corvette (sold one of those too) or Viper as more appealing to the "hands dirty", "blue collar" crowd. But the M3??? If you say so...

One thing you may be overlooking is the fact that some cars, especially porsches are fueled by a love of the car that goes beyond pure data. The heritage, style, feel, all elicit emotions that are usually seeded at a very young age. Mustang, Corvette, and BMWs owners fell in love with the car when they were 10, 11 years old. So it has really nothing to do with pure performance numbers or practicality. I've owned BMW's, Lexus, Acura, and I'm on my 2nd 911. Why? For one, I actually love the way the car feels when I drive it... like a baseball glove that's been broken in. But more importantly it's been the car of my dreams ever since I could remember and I've been fortunate enough to finally own one. I grew up in the city, my parents were both blue-collar workers, we never owned a new car or a house, so I'm not some trust fund baby. Those that feel that Porsche owners are nothing more than rich people that don't know how to drive are really showing their lack of automotive enthusiasm and intellect. Peace, Rob

1.I can't think of anything more elitist than presuming to call someone an elitist.... 2.The minute you feel comfortable making broad generalizations and boxing people into categories for something as ridiculously meaningless as their occupation or the car they drive, you're an elitist. Using the rule postulated by the author of this quote, the author must himself be an elitist since he just charged me with being an elitist. My initial post was in response to specifc posts made by purported Porsche owners. Some of the posts that I strongly objected to were: 1. I would never buy a Corvette because it's an American car. 2. Every time I think about buying a Corvette I look at the driver of one and then I remember why I don't want one. 3. M3s are owned only by teenagers and their cars were bought for them by their parents. 4. Almost all M3s are owned by Asians. There were other posts made in the same vein but the above were typical of the rest. The above posts are IMHO clearly condescending, but if others feel differently so be it.

Sly, I've heard the same kind of comments from other car owners about any other car owner... Corvette owners would never own a Porsche, BMW owners would never own a Mustang, it's perverse throughout any car club. I'm sure there are Ferrari Enzo owners saying they would never own a CGT , the point is that people are passionate about the cars they drive. To some it may be more than that. Perhaps there are a hand full of Porsche owners that feel some ridiculous prestige over less expensive cars, just as Iamb sure there are people envious of someone that can afford a Ferrari or Porsche.

i've met my share of vette owners who sneer at porsches and say it's anti-american to buy foriegn...and all the jokes about the ***** being on the inside, etc. at the end of the day, you buy what you like.