OT OPINIONS: Street legal on the track is COOLER than a radical on the track.

I experienced my first DE last wknd, and obviously it was a blast, and yes I am hooked on it. Now I KNOW why it's pointless to speed in the hwy's (Any idiot can do that). I'll get to the point to my post. My DE instructor was driving a street legal boxterS, and I never knew anything on four wheels can do anything remotely close to what he did with his. There were several other cars, some heavily modified and were extremely fast on the track. At the end of the race they had to be trailered or jacked up and have there tires brakes etc. changed, just like the radical which lapped them all several times. It was COOL to see the little boxter drive away from the track and out in to the streets with no changes. I love my 03 C4S, it was a blast on dry and wet, and I like it even more as it is the original deal, no mods, and a street legal sports car. I am not saying mods are bad, I understand it's a great "hobby", but when it is not street legal, where does it end, why not just buy the radical and smoke everyone on the track, either way you've got to pull it in a trailer ? Another point, there was a pre-facelift 996 which had a killer exhaust note and lowered, and was amazing on the track, no sane person gave a hoot whether it was a post-face lift 996, 993, or 964 or 944, all that mattered was a beautiful piece of machinary doing what it's built to do, and it was pure poetry in motion, period. I loved every single porsche's that was there, definitely even the non-street legal porsches, but the ones that could be driven to the track and back without a trailer were the COOL ones in my book.

Track/closed course driving is a hoot, and takes away all the show off tendencies. San Diego Region PCA is the big dog here in So Cal and hold Autox about once a month at the Qualcom Stadium lot. The courses are generally in excess of 1 mile in length, providing fast (3rd gear) and technical turns (on & off camber) I drive down from Los Angeles, and the round trip is approx 5hrs departing at 4:30AM to be on the track for less than 20min. Am I possessed, YES! You can not sainly or safely exercise the handling of a high performance car at these limits on a public road. Big Track driving is GREAT as well, I've done Sebring, Barber, RA, and Laguna. Its all about seat time, the more you do the better you get!! Caution you may become addicted!

Jones I think I didn't make myself clear, I am not saying street driving is better than track, that's definitely not what I am saying, definitely not. I am already addicted to track, after my first DE, I am already planning for my nexyt few . My observation is regarding street legal vs non-street legal cars on the track.

Be careful. The DE road is one slippery slope . I've been driving my C4S to and from the track for the last 2 years now. Last trip was 16 hrs round trip to VIR! It's totaly cool to just wipe off the glass marker numbers (or not), roll up the windows, turn on the AC, listen to a Natalie Cole as you drive away from the track in the same car you were just blasting around with ON the track. Then come the demons. You know, you're at the limit of your street tires, I know of a great set of R-compounds. Of course, those R-Compounds would really shine when mated with some lowered and stiifer springs. More negative camber too, perhaps? Those speeds were just exhilarating, but weren' you having a hard time keeping your butt in your seat with those G's? Wouldn't GT3 seats hold you better and give you better control? Mate that with a six point harness, and a roll cage, and you're ready to rock and roll!!! Beware of those DE demons. As you rack up more track time and and your skills approach the limits of the stock set-up, those track dedicated "toys" will start to look absolutely tempting!

Palting I don't think i saw you at putnam last wknd., I met Roger at the tracks, another fellow rennlister, whom you may know. I agree with the gt3 seats five point harness and may be even a roll cage, which will still be street legal. Well i guess changing tires is not a big deal, a set of rain tires would have been awesome last sunday. I see how it can be a very slippery slide into mods . Talking about keeping you in the seats with high G's, my instructor gave me this little hint which helped me a great deal staying put. First you hold the seat buckle a few inches away from the slot with the seats back and then you twist the hip portion of the belt a few times and now squeeze/pull it into the slot and then move the seat forward, which pretty much tightens your hip into the seat. But, a five point harness certainly be better.

Interesting thread. Just got my C4S about a month ago. I have had a number of cars and have spent some time racing karts and the occasional track day. Until now I could easily push all of the cars that I have owned until they started to squirm without breaking a sweat. I have tried this a couple of times in the Porsche and it is just laughing at me and I decided that the only safe place to explore the limits on this sort of car is on the track. With that in mind I hope to make the next AutoX - there are a few that are run within an hours drive of my place. Hmmmm....just what I didn't need - another hobby that eats into prime weekend time (less time for the family, motorcycle trips, etc.)

Heh-heh-heh. Yup, slippery slope it is. You start with an awesome stock street car thats good for the track, slowly slide over a little mod at a time to an awesome track car that is still barely street legal but is now tough to drive on the street, then finally just throw in the towel and get a tow truck, enclosed trailer, track dedicated car, assorted track tools and goodies........... Give me a minute. I have to wipe the drool off my chin . Haven't quite made it to Putnam, yet, jeeva. I live down Cleveland area. I started at Nelsons Ledges, now hang out frequently at Mid-Ohio or BeaveRun. Hooked up with Todd Serota/Tracquest for his recent Mid-Ohio and VIR events. Hope to drive all the road tracks before they bury me 6 feet under. Aside from the home tracks, so far I've made it to Watkins and VIR. So far .

track driving is a slipper slope?? LOL. after few events, you start modding, buy spare parts, then spare cars ;-)

This thread hit a little too close to home for me. Here�s my version of the same old story. Purchased brand new 99 996 c2 Installed fire extinguisher Attended DE Installed H&R coilovers Purchased TRG adjustable sway bars Purchased Fabspeeds Purchased used BBS racing wheels Purchased first set of Hoosiers Removed rear seats Installed Hot Lap timer Replaced seats with Recaro SPGs Installed harness bar & 5 point harnesses Replaced harness bar with Das Sport roll bar Replaced battery with small, light Optima Purchased Kenesis K28s to replace stock wheels I messed up at the track Removed sound proofing/carpeting, replaced with light trunk carpet Removed stereo, seat belts, etc, etc Replaced H&Rs with Moton Club Sports Installed engine cut out switch Installed ERP mono ***** Replaced roll bar with cage Installed seat back brace Purchased 2 sets of Jongbloed Racing Wheels Replaced Recaros with Ultrashield racing seats Installed window nets Replaced Fabspeeds with straight pipes Installed removable steering wheel Installed 3rd radiator Installed aero kit Installed racing mirror Purchased 98 993 cab to get wife off my back about not being able to take the 996 out to dinner Replaced windshield with Lexan Destroyed car Rebuilt car Purchased Hans device Replaced lower control arms with cup car Installed cup car brake ducts, hood pins, etc Installed new transmission Installed 3.6L X51 Installed evo air cleaner system Removed door panels Removed drivers side window I�m sure I forgot a bunch of stuff The result: a 345+ hp, 2900 lb. ear-to-ear smile

Jim I think thats what Palting means by slippery slope and addicted. Nice mods, but why didn't you end up buying a old GT3 race car. I'm sure the money you spent could have gotten you one?

Houldsworth, get your car for a DE ASAP. I am telling you hwy driving is nothing, on an empty road one morning i've hit 155mph, and on empty ramps pushed the car as much as i could (yep, the car was giggling at me too) These were absolutely nothing compared to the adrenaline rush on the track in a C4S. The only time you have time RELAXING is when you are accelerating down a straightaway like you might when speeding on hwys. At all other times it was pure rush mixed with what i have to say is a mild anxiety (multiple instances of rear end getting loose, i love that PSM, yeah eventually when my skills improve i will turm PSM off) it is not for the faint of heart (first I told my wife i'll eventually take her to the tracks, now NEVER). This is from a track neophyte who is barely scratching the surface of what i am sure will be years of pure adrenaline rush. Jim, you bought a 993 cab to appease your wife , good one buddy. That's one awesome car you've got. Hey, but I am wondering whether thinking back you'd say i'd rather have bought that european street leagal racer RADICAL (ofcourse not street legal here, costs ~ 50K) instead. Or is it like me who will rather own a C4S than an elise (a better track car) and an M3( a better hwy car), for intangible reasons.

Jet, The money spent could have gotten me a brand new cup car and a bunch of spares. If I had started the journey knowing where it was going to end I would have done just that. What happened was the slope started fairly gently. By the time I decided I was ready to go racing my 996 had depreciated enough and had enough mods that jumping to a cup car would have been pretty expensive. I loved my car so I decided to convert it. My only regret is that the 996 has not been that competitive in stock C where I have to compete with 993RSs, 993TTs and prepared RSAs. That's a pretty tough crowd. I think I have the bugs out of the 3.6 now so I'm hoping things will be a bit more even from now on. In my previous post I forgot about some of the biggest expenses of the slope like purchasing a Featherlite, truck, pit bike, tools.......

Jeeva, A Radical would be fun but I wanted to club race with my friends in PCA. For me half the fun is racing, half is working on the car and half is hanging out with track friends. Jim

I also have gone way down the slippery slope. Started with DE and Autocross in my 944 Turbo S. Then I figured I wanted a little more and a project. From there a built a 944 just for autocross and DE. Slowly this care turned into dedicated racer being trailered everywhere. In spite of being 100 hp down it is faster than my turbo S at a track. The I started carriny spare parts in the truck, rebuiling motors for the race car etc, Now I have 2 parts and a 3rd car that was a parts car I turn in to stock autocross car just so that I can have that simple drive to the track, unload in 5min , drive and have fun, pack up in 5 min and go home. Simple. I seem to have gone full circle, except I still have a car to race when I want to get serious! Slipperly slope it is!

The world to mods leads to the theory that earth is really FLAT!!! But oh so fun. JimB you got a dandy of a car. If possible if/when your car is ready for the races post ne videos/photos what not when your're flying : ). Regards. Mike

Jeeva, I haven�t really thought about a DE event yet. I know what I am in for with an AutoX and the thing that appeals the most is that the chances of causing serious damage to the car are negligible. On the down side the only one that I ever went to gave me a total of about 6 minutes driving for a whole day outing � not a good return. I have seriously thought about buying a set of cones and setting up a track of my own in a car park somewhere nearby and spending an hour or two seeing how fast I can push the beast. No competition, but I�m OK with that. A DE, if I am reading it correctly, is held on a track which means more time driving, higher speeds and � yes � the very real chance that I will push the car off into something immovable at some point. If someone can tell me a place where the runoff is so big this will never happen then I might go for it. Barry

Both are fun, but the track is just 10x more fun that autocross in my opinion. I've been out there with good instructors and I've been sensible about it and I've had a ton of fun while still feeling safer than on the highways. I don't drive slow, but I just make sure that I'm thinking (and looking) ahead of where I am, not hitting apexes early, and being committed (on the gas) before the apexes. If do those things, you're probably going to stay on track.

Houldsworth. putnam park in indiana i heard is the best for rookies, which wsas the one I was at last wknd. It's in the middle of an old corn field, there is nothing to hit, except the last turn #10. Actually i was told it was the best place to spin your car. So, you should try putnam sometimes.